Kosovo Independence

[inspire]

Kosovo - 2 million population

Sikhs in Punjab - Around 20 million

i dont think Kosovo in the long term will work unless both Serbia and Kosovo become prosperous states. The reason why i dont think it'll work because of the influence of Russia and the USA, pulling strings on both sides. Its another cold war, that region will never be at peace without Nato being positioned in that region.

[MiriPiri]

The idea of an independent Khalistan makes me shudder.

Wake up, people, our so-called leaders cannot even run a gurudwara with honour, integrity, and due dilligence, let alone a nation state.

Then there is the idea of a manifesto for a Sikh nation. Would the government advocate all Sikhs be forced to adhere to the 5 K's, i.e. a Talibanisation for at least the Sikh populus in what is now Punjab?

There are just sooooo many intellectual reasons not to have a Khalistan, and NO spiritual ones in favour of a Khalistan, i.e. a Sikh nation is not a religious idea for the Sikhs.

I'm sure there have been some scholalry papers written on the idea of a Khalistan that address my points, but it's just not workable.

And the major difference between Kosovo and would-be-Khalistan is that there is and never has been a mass (or majority) movement in favour of a Khalistan. Not even after the atrocities of the 70's/80's and in particular after 1984. It's just a dream of the most affected (or dis-affected), that would quickyl turn into a nightmare.

[Heera Singh]

^^ also, can't really compare since Kosovo is 90% albanian...

The state of punjab is less then 50% "Sikh" (i think around 30%)... and even then, how many are practicing Sikhs?

[THE WARRIOR]

The west especially the U.S and U.K couldn’t care less about Sikhs in the Punjab, they have nothing to gain from seeing an independent Sikh Nation if there was conflict tomorrow I pretty sure the UN would drag its feet, I couldn’t see peacekeepers being deployed back in 84 nor tomorrow morning. Similarly the west didn’t give a damn about the plight of the Buddhist Monks and people during Chinas invasion and illegal occupation of Tibet.

Money Talks, No Black Gold in Punjab nor Muslim sentiment to appease and that’s what it boils down to.

[dalsingh101]

The west especially the U.S and U.K couldn’t care less about Sikhs in the Punjab, they have nothing to gain from seeing an independent Sikh Nation if there was conflict tomorrow I pretty sure the UN would drag its feet, I couldn’t see peacekeepers being deployed back in 84 nor tomorrow morning. Similarly the west didn’t give a damn about the plight of the Buddhist Monks and people during Chinas invasion and illegal occupation of Tibet.

Money Talks, No Black Gold in Punjab nor Muslim sentiment to appease and that’s what it boils down to.

This is very true.

[lsingh]

^^ also, can't really compare since Kosovo is 90% albanian...

The state of punjab is less then 50% "Sikh" (i think around 30%)... and even then, how many are practicing Sikhs?

The population of Sikhs is above 50 % and may even be near 60% , the Indian courts recently ruled Sikhs were not a minority in the Punjab. The USA have also said that the India Pakistan border is the most dangerous palce in the world with a Hindu and Muslim country armed nuclear weapons having gone to war several times over the last 60 years, a buffer state could promote peace.

I think the Sikhs as bad as they are would do a much better job than India at ruling ,as even they would not attack the Harimandar Sahib, Burn Sikhs alive and carry out a genocide of religious Sikhs between 1980 and 1995.

Anyway the last time the Sikhs had there state under Marajaha Ranjit Singh it was considered the best run state in Asia.

Kosovo probably has no more than 10% practicing Muslims and they still get Independence

[inspire]

^^ also, can't really compare since Kosovo is 90% albanian...

The state of punjab is less then 50% "Sikh" (i think around 30%)... and even then, how many are practicing Sikhs?

The population of Sikhs is above 50 % and may even be near 60% , the Indian courts recently ruled Sikhs were not a minority in the Punjab. The USA have also said that the India Pakistan border is the most dangerous palce in the world with a Hindu and Muslim country armed nuclear weapons having gone to war several times over the last 60 years, a buffer state could promote peace.

I think the Sikhs as bad as they are would do a much better job than India at ruling ,as even they would not attack the Harimandar Sahib, Burn Sikhs alive and carry out a genocide of religious Sikhs between 1980 and 1995.

Anyway the last time the Sikhs had there state under Marajaha Ranjit Singh it was considered the best run state in Asia.

Kosovo probably has no more than 10% practicing Muslims and they still get Independence

As it was stated above its all about money, political influence in the 'back-yard' of russia and to make the muslim countries around that area happy, i.e. turkey etc. As i said before its a battle of political influence in the area between the USA and Russia, each side is probably doing and influencing events through covert actions. I dont think the USA are as much interested in what happens between Pakistan and India as they now have influence in both countries with recent agreements regarding nuclear armament (they've got both countries in their pockets regarding nuclear weapons and technology now i think).

The USA have also said that the India Pakistan border is the most dangerous palce in the world

Im not sure about this as recent news from the area was that both countries are increasing flights between the two countries because of recent peace and friendship between these two countries. And the fact the democratic elections where held in the country and the fact that the UK and USA were heavily influentail in getting back Butto in to the country as well as Nawaz Sharif and to get Musharaf to agree to this

[proactive]

The idea of an independent Khalistan makes me shudder.

Never thought I would see it, a slave scared of freedom! Freedom comes first from freeing your mind from the fear of being able to do your own thing without having to worry about your masters.

Wake up, people, our so-called leaders cannot even run a gurudwara with honour, integrity, and due dilligence, let alone a nation state.

Maybe in an independent state the people would be able to work at getting better leaders and not the ones that the Indian govt hoists on Sikhs

Then there is the idea of a manifesto for a Sikh nation. Would the government advocate all Sikhs be forced to adhere to the 5 K's, i.e. a Talibanisation for at least the Sikh populus in what is now Punjab?

How about a state where the Guru Granth Sahib is the constitution? Is there anything in the Guru Granth Sahib about forcing people to wear the 5 K's. How many times in history have Sikhs killed fellow Sikhs and justified it by saying those Sikhs weren't real Sikhs? So your talibanisation comment is just hot air.

There are just sooooo many intellectual reasons not to have a Khalistan, and NO spiritual ones in favour of a Khalistan, i.e. a Sikh nation is not a religious idea for the Sikhs.

Intellectual reasons? Let's have them then. No religious idea for a Sikh state? I suppose you skip the Ardas where it says Raj Karega Khalsa or do you think that was just for the period 1699-1849?

I'm sure there have been some scholalry papers written on the idea of a Khalistan that address my points, but it's just not workable.

why not? 2 million Kosovans can have a country of 1/10th the size of Punjab but 25 million Sikhs can't make a country work. What happened to all the Sikh Chardi Kala or are we only good at serving others?

And the major difference between Kosovo and would-be-Khalistan is that there is and never has been a mass (or majority) movement in favour of a Khalistan. Not even after the atrocities of the 70's/80's and in particular after 1984. It's just a dream of the most affected (or dis-affected), that would quickyl turn into a nightmare.

That's debatable. If the indian govt had held a referandrum on independence anytime between 1984 -1995 then majority of Sikhs would have voted for Khalistan.

[lsingh]

The idea of an independent Khalistan makes me shudder.

Never thought I would see it, a slave scared of freedom! Freedom comes first from freeing your mind from the fear of being able to do your own thing without having to worry about your masters.

Wake up, people, our so-called leaders cannot even run a gurudwara with honour, integrity, and due dilligence, let alone a nation state.

Maybe in an independent state the people would be able to work at getting better leaders and not the ones that the Indian govt hoists on Sikhs

Then there is the idea of a manifesto for a Sikh nation. Would the government advocate all Sikhs be forced to adhere to the 5 K's, i.e. a Talibanisation for at least the Sikh populus in what is now Punjab?

How about a state where the Guru Granth Sahib is the constitution? Is there anything in the Guru Granth Sahib about forcing people to wear the 5 K's. How many times in history have Sikhs killed fellow Sikhs and justified it by saying those Sikhs weren't real Sikhs? So your talibanisation comment is just hot air.

There are just sooooo many intellectual reasons not to have a Khalistan, and NO spiritual ones in favour of a Khalistan, i.e. a Sikh nation is not a religious idea for the Sikhs.

Intellectual reasons? Let's have them then. No religious idea for a Sikh state? I suppose you skip the Ardas where it says Raj Karega Khalsa or do you think that was just for the period 1699-1849?

I'm sure there have been some scholalry papers written on the idea of a Khalistan that address my points, but it's just not workable.

why not? 2 million Kosovans can have a country of 1/10th the size of Punjab but 25 million Sikhs can't make a country work. What happened to all the Sikh Chardi Kala or are we only good at serving others?

And the major difference between Kosovo and would-be-Khalistan is that there is and never has been a mass (or majority) movement in favour of a Khalistan. Not even after the atrocities of the 70's/80's and in particular after 1984. It's just a dream of the most affected (or dis-affected), that would quickyl turn into a nightmare.

That's debatable. If the indian govt had held a referandrum on independence anytime between 1984 -1995 then majority of Sikhs would have voted for Khalistan.

The punjab has another type of 'Oil' wheta prices have risen 83% in the last year, all the surrounding countries to the Punjab need wheat and rice.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7244382.stm

Cereal prices hit poor countries

Wheat prices have risen 83% in the past year

The rising price of cereals such as wheat and maize is a "major global concern", the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) says.

Poor countries could see their cereal import bill rise by more than a third. Africa as a whole is expected to see an estimated 49% increase this year.

International wheat prices have risen 83% in the past 12 months.

Demand from emerging countries such as China, and droughts and flooding have pushed cereal prices to record highs.

CEREAL IMPORT BILLS

2007/8 forecast

Africa up 49%

Asia up 25%

Latin America up 31%

Oceania up 25%

Europe up 53%

Source: FAO

It is estimated poor countries will pay a record $33.1bn (£17bn) for cereal imports in the year to July 2008. This is despite a fall in the total amount they will import.

In an attempt to limit the impact of rising prices on their populations, governments have lowered import tariffs, raised food subsidies and imposed duties on food exports.

Food crisis

The rising price of wheat, maize and rice will push up the cost of basic foods and this will affect the world's vulnerable populations the most, the FAO said.

It warned 36 countries around the world were facing a food crisis.

Prices of basic foods have increased, affecting the vulnerable populations most

United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization

The highest number of countries facing a severe shortage of food - 21 - is in Africa.

Lesotho, Somalia and Swaziland are said to be facing an "exceptional shortfall" in food supply after years of adverse weather.

The FAO this week launched an appeal for $87m of emergency assistance to help flood-affected populations in Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Malawi.

Farmers in flooded areas are in urgent need of seeds to begin replanting, with only two months to the end of the cropping season, the FAO said.