Never Understood

[anom7]

i think some things are to complex

vaheguru created this universe, in an extremly intellgient and amazing manner

we cant understand it at our avastha levels sometimes because it wud be like a monkey understanding biology

were just not smart enough to comphrend it unless we got the avastha

if we knew everything, wed be perfect and one with god

i was jus wonderin if anyone knew though

[fauji07]

isnt the law of karma waheguru's hukam?

[THE WARRIOR]

isnt the law of karma waheguru's hukam?

In Simple terms yes The law of Karma is Vahegurus Hukam, This means the way it works and is calculated. The compilation of Karma is down to you. Hukam, Karma and freewill are happening all the time. You don’t control Hukam, you do have a degree of understanding and control in regards to compilation of Karma and the ability to do something about it, and freewill is all down to you.

[Bijla Singh]

In my understanding "Hukam" is Waheguru's Will or Bhana. Bhana means that Waheguru has created set of rules by which the creation operates. It is not being forced on anyone. Guru Sahib has taught us to realize the Hukam and follow it which means that people have the choice. I don't think Waheguru wanted Hitler and Indira to genocide innocent people. Waheguru's Hukam says "You get what you deserve". You follow the Hukam (Guru's Shabad) you are saved. If you don't you suffer.

Since Waheguru is all-knowing and all powerful there is nothing that can go against His Will (Bhana). Waheguru gives us the choice of freedom but its fate is already decided. For example, you kill someone you know you will go to jail. You do a good deed you get a reward or recognition. Similarly, we have a choice but doesn't mean Waheguru doesn't know what its end will be. This is why everything works according to His Will. Our ability to make a choice which creates karma is His Will. Two are not separate. This is speaking at a level of an ordinary human being. Jaap Sahib and Akal Ustat convey the same message but at a different level. Everything being God's play is not contradictory but simply a different context. I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

[guptveer1469]

i think when we begin to do a bad karam, then waheguru warns us through something... mind and/or heart.... but waheguru doesnt stop us from doing bad things but just warn us...

[anom7]

see bijla singh thas wa i thought

butt hen y does guur je say

he causes the papi to do paap, or anything along those lines?

and why is a papi being punished if guru je is the one making him do it

or how guru je says only vaheguru can cause is bhagthi

then y punish someone whos not at fault?

these r confusing ideas of course

and only thru ALOT of bhagthee can we begin to understand these types of topics

[kaur_khalistani_lioness]

^^^

why not read the whole shabd or post it here and discuss the confusion?=)

thats what sangat is for...."Hoe eikathr milahu maerae bhaaee dhubidhhaa dhoor karahu liv laae ||

Come and join together, O my Siblings of Destiny; dispel your sense of duality and let yourselves be lovingly absorbed in the Lord" (this i just heard from one of my veer jis)

and right now what u have is duality...which is necessary. i do too sometime. just something that is natural and upsetting...but leads us to the truth=)

theologians and philosophers have been discussing this thought of "free-will" for such a long time...and i dont think either end has come to any conclusion(s) lol(unless they have now...odda menu pta ni ji )

seriously stop talking abstractly and lets discuss what guru sahib is really saying (the shabds that are confusing u)

bhul chuk muaff karni

wjkk wjkf!

[Laadli Fauj]

god is all powerful, omnipresent

we are his creation, EVERYTHING we do is his command

we are punished and rewarded because God WILLS it

if you dont like this post, it's because God WILLS it

mhhhhhh

[Mehtab Singh]

I don't think Waheguru wanted Hitler and Indira to genocide innocent people.

Ok.

Since Waheguru is all-knowing and all powerful there is nothing that can go against His Will (Bhana).

Now doesn't that contradict what you said earlier? Doesn't that mean that Hitler and Indira also, as per this logic, acted as they were supposed to?

This reminds me of a story I was telling someone yesterday. A little boy left home because he didn't like it. Late at night a cop saw him walking alongside the road. The cop asked him what he was doing alone so late on the road. The kid replied "My mom said not to cross the road unless all the cars have passed". So you see, even though he ran away from home, he was still following what his mom told him. We may try to run away from God, but we are still in Hs lap. We can be the most evil people, yet we are still acting within His Hukam.

hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]

hukamai a(n)dhar sabh ko baahar hukam n koe ||

Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.

Everyone means everyone, even Hitler and Indira. Now if someone says "So we should accept His will and not retaliate", well, retaliation is then again His Hukam as well.

My 2 cents

bhul chuk maaf

[anom7]

kaur khalistani i cant remeber off the top of my head

bharam is somethingthat is not easily escaped

ive been searching hard for 10 yrs the answers now, and 5 yrs ago i was extremly serious into the search

i kno i wont find anyhting until guru je bestows it, which is all i wait for

in my mind, all will happen inthe end as he wants it to

only he knows wat will happen

but then questions will boviusly arise

now even in anand sahib

it says only u put the bhagaths on their path, i dont rmeber where exactly i just remeerbr it wa there

this theme isnt uncommon in guru granth sahib je, its everywhere

and i wud try to remebr the thuk, but when im reading gurbani ure mind gets onto that, or u try to, and not try to remebr to write thuks down

but it is there

in japji sahib gufru je says hukmai andar sabh ko bahaar hukam no koe

now bijla singh u think wa i thougth, tha human means his will or rules like do bhagthi

but then

ull seee in gurbanee vaheguru is the cause of all causes, he causes the papee to paap and the bhagth to do bhagthee

but then how does tha make sence?

and y is someone punished for something they have no control over?

im nmot saying guru jes wrong, theyre level of understanding is much above ours

they kno everything

u cant excpet a child to understand physics

same situation with us

we cant understand everything perfectly until we actually expiernce vaheguru