Panjabradio Entertains Anti Dasam Granth Person.

[GSMANN]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I have received some information regarding Panjabradio in the UK who who will be entertaining Gyani Gurbax Gulshan Singh today at 8pm who has attcked the nitnem banis and was blocked from becoming a Giani for the SGPC due to his nefarious activities. He will be talking about the Sri Dasam Granth when last weeks Akal Takht Hukumnama has asked people to stop attacking the banis which form the Dasam Granth and the Nitnem.

Please read the following links on Gyani Gurbax Gulshan Singh.

http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/2726/2006-09-06.html

http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/3522/2007-09-05.html

Panjabradio website is at: http://www.panjabradio.co.uk

The directive from Akal Takht Jathedar last week was quite clear, " Sangat should not raise any controversy over the hymns of the Dasam Granth".

Read more regarding the directive at : http://www.sridasamgranth.com/#/dasamgranthblog/4526703344

Gurfateh

[ghorandhar]

Veer jee Could you provide referances regarding giani gurbax Singh jees attack on the nitnem bani, I have his book Darpan Sikh rehit maryada but im abit confused about the arguments you are raising. Your links say this is what he has done. And also questioned the Amrit banis.

I also belief Giani Gurbax Singh Gulshan has never studied at any missionary college. So its odd he is being called a missionary (as your links claim). giani Gurbax Singh totally follows the Panthic Sikh rehit maryada, so I will be suprised if he attacks the akal Takhat. Its interesting that no one seems to be following the Akal Takhat, the Akal Takhat says no Granth can be parkash with the Guru granth Sahib (yet we openly reject this), then when someone is attacking the dasam granth they are kuffars for challenging the Akal Takhat. We are all liable for challenging the Akal Takhat.

I look forward to the page referances.

[GSMANN]

Veer jee Could you provide referances regarding giani gurbax Singh jees attack on the nitnem bani, I have his book Darpan Sikh rehit maryada but im abit confused about the arguments you are raising. Your links say this is what he has done. And also questioned the Amrit banis.

I also belief Giani Gurbax Singh Gulshan has never studied at any missionary college. So its odd he is being called a missionary (as your links claim). giani Gurbax Singh totally follows the Panthic Sikh rehit maryada, so I will be suprised if he attacks the akal Takhat. Its interesting that no one seems to be following the Akal Takhat, the Akal Takhat says no Granth can be parkash with the Guru granth Sahib (yet we openly reject this), then when someone is attacking the dasam granth they are kuffars for challenging the Akal Takhat. We are all liable for challenging the Akal Takhat.

I look forward to the page referances.

The links are self explanatory as the various organisations have mentioned what areas he has attacked.

[ghorandhar]

Veer jee Could you provide referances regarding giani gurbax Singh jees attack on the nitnem bani, I have his book Darpan Sikh rehit maryada but im abit confused about the arguments you are raising. Your links say this is what he has done. And also questioned the Amrit banis.

I also belief Giani Gurbax Singh Gulshan has never studied at any missionary college. So its odd he is being called a missionary (as your links claim). giani Gurbax Singh totally follows the Panthic Sikh rehit maryada, so I will be suprised if he attacks the akal Takhat. Its interesting that no one seems to be following the Akal Takhat, the Akal Takhat says no Granth can be parkash with the Guru granth Sahib (yet we openly reject this), then when someone is attacking the dasam granth they are kuffars for challenging the Akal Takhat. We are all liable for challenging the Akal Takhat.

I look forward to the page referances.

The links are self explanatory as the various organisations have mentioned what areas he has attacked.

Veer jee Im asking for page referances so I can read about the areas he has attacked in his darpan Sikh rehit maryada, Ive only read it once and I did not come across these remarks (maybe I didnt notice or forgot such remarks have been made) and Ive been looking through the book, but I cant find the arguments which the organisations have found objectionable. So im simply asking if you could help me with giving page numbers. Until ive read the relevant sections of the book I dont think its appropriate to make an opinion.

[GSMANN]

Veer jee Could you provide referances regarding giani gurbax Singh jees attack on the nitnem bani, I have his book Darpan Sikh rehit maryada but im abit confused about the arguments you are raising. Your links say this is what he has done. And also questioned the Amrit banis.

I also belief Giani Gurbax Singh Gulshan has never studied at any missionary college. So its odd he is being called a missionary (as your links claim). giani Gurbax Singh totally follows the Panthic Sikh rehit maryada, so I will be suprised if he attacks the akal Takhat. Its interesting that no one seems to be following the Akal Takhat, the Akal Takhat says no Granth can be parkash with the Guru granth Sahib (yet we openly reject this), then when someone is attacking the dasam granth they are kuffars for challenging the Akal Takhat. We are all liable for challenging the Akal Takhat.

I look forward to the page referances.

The links are self explanatory as the various organisations have mentioned what areas he has attacked.

Veer jee Im asking for page referances so I can read about the areas he has attacked in his darpan Sikh rehit maryada, Ive only read it once and I did not come across these remarks (maybe I didnt notice or forgot such remarks have been made) and Ive been looking through the book, but I cant find the arguments which the organisations have found objectionable. So im simply asking if you could help me with giving page numbers. Until ive read the relevant sections of the book I dont think its appropriate to make an opinion.

I dont have the book so cannot give any page references. The various organsiations have obviously checked the information before

making the allegations against this Giani as a result he was not give the SGPC post.

This Giani is supported by www.<banned>.com and they are known for their attacks on the Sri Dasam Granth.

In their email i received it states quite clearly that he will be giving an anti dasam Granth talk on Punjab radio today.

In view on the 300 sal celebrations Gianis like him are splitting the panth and ignoring the recent Akal Takht Hukumnama which has constantly been reiterated

since 2006.

[ghorandhar]

Veer jee, Ive found the page numbers, I suggest you now go and read the book because what you are saying makes no sense. Regarding amrit bania, go to page 204. Its clear he says that panj bania are read during amrit, he also gives the date when the panth decided to change the amrit bania. This was a panthic decision, there is no historical document which says panj should be read, however the panth has made this decision and Giani Gulbax Singh jee clearly says that these panj bania for amrit sanchar is a panthic decision.

Regarding nitnem bania go to page 63. There is no discussion on the dasam granth in any of these pages, neither does he question, rather he is saying these bania should be read. So its incorrect to make the statements you are making. There is discussion on the Rehrass which is correct and in accordance with the panthic Sikh rehit maryada and the way its composed in the Guru granth Sahib.

I dont know what singhsabhacanada is, but veer jee rather than listening to what others say, just go to the source, Has giani Gurbax Singh said he will talk against the Dasam granth? if not there is no need to make statements. If he does make such remarks and the radio show allows phone calls to be made, make a phone call and make your point, until then all this speculations is pointless. We believe too much what others say and we dont even consider whether its true or not, just like making comments about the amrit bania and nitnem bania when his books says the contrary. One of the reasons Giani jee did not become a granthi at darbar sahib was because he does not hold a post in any other SGPC gurdwara, it was claimed other people should be ahead of him. Im not suprised the granthis of Darbar sahib objected to someone who follows the Akal Takhat rehit maryada from becoming a granthi, just read Giani Jaswant Singh jees books, he totally shows disregard for panthic deicisons. It seems that its all about getting your own people into the positions.

I hope you will be able to air your views on the radio station, also the following is the details of the book in question:

Gurbax Singh Gulshan, 'Darpan Sikh Rehit maryada'. You can buy it from Singh Brothers www.singhbrothers.com. Or it says in the book you can email Giani Gurbax Singh: gsgulshan@swani.com

It even has his phone number, I can give you that if you want.

One more point, its suprising that the following people have written about the book and have said its good: Singh Sahib Joginder Singh vendanti; giani Gurbachan Singh (head granthi darbar Sahib, amritsar) Giani Tarlochan Singh jee (jathedhar keshgarh sahib), giani jaswant Singh parvana (sabka granthi Darbar Sahib, amritsar), and other people. Im suprised these people would do this if such objectionable things are written.

[GSMANN]

Thanks for your views.

However Tribune News reported the following and i have pasted the IHRO press release regarding his appointment and the qualifications neededto become a SGPC granthi. That being that the Granthi has to be quailfied and profficient in the Sri Dasam Granth however he is the opposite.

I am happy with this information that i have posted this is not speculation but fact based on the statements made by the IHRO, Damdami Taksal and Nihang organisations. With regards to his book maybe you missed the points they are referring to.

Clergy rejects appointment of 3 Sikh high priests

Varinder Walia

Tribune News Service

Amritsar, September 9, 2007

Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee president Avatar Singh today suffered a big jolt when in an unprecedented “Gurmata” (resolution), the Sikh clergy rejected the appointment of three granthis for Golden Temple today.

The Sikh high priests have directed the committee to finalise the parameters as per Sikh traditions for making such appointments. The directions clear state that no such appointment can be made in violation of Sikh traditions.

With this, the Sikh high priests and the SGPC chief are on the collision course as all three persons were hand-picked by the latter.

Earlier, the SGPC had to postpone the installation ceremony of the granthis of Golden Temple in the wake of strong opposition from Sikh high priests and Sikh organisations.

Damdami Taksal chief Baba Harnam Singh Khalsa and chiefs of various Nihang organisations had threatened to stop any installation that was against Sikh traditions.

The three new Sikh high priests whose appointment has been rejected are: Giani Maan Singh, Head Granthi, Takht Damdama Sahib; Giani Jaspal Singh of Ludhiana; and Giani Gurbax Singh Gulshan of the UK.

The Damdami Taksal chief had alleged that except Giani Maan Singh, the other two priests had never served in any SGPC-run gurdwara.

He had also alleged that Giani Jaspal Singh was instrumental in the allowing baptised Sikh women to be part of “Panj Pyaras” (five beloved ones) who administered “Amrit” in “violation” of the established “maryada”.

The Sikh scholars had termed the appointments “undemocratic” and “violative” of Sikh traditions since Sikh bodies were not taken into confidence.

Sikh scholar G.S. Lamba, an advocate, had alleged that Giani Gulshan could not be installed since he had challenged the authenticity of “Rehras Sahib” in a book authored by him. The “Gurmata” reads that the appointment of the granthis had to be rejected on the basis of a number of petitions filed before the Akal Takht in India and abroad.

International Human Rights Organisation

Of the Indian Subcontinent

Phone: 91 161 500 9210

PRESS RELEASE

August 30, 2007

The International Human Rights Organisation (IHRO) takes strong cognizance of the sinister move of the SGPC President Avtar Singh Makkar to install Giani Jagtar Singh Jachak and Giani Gurbux Singh Gulshan as Singh Sahibs of Sri Darbar Sahib and Sri Akal Takht, Amritsar, respectively.

This is nothing but would be an appointment by proxy of Kala Afghana as Jathedar Akal Takht, said the IHRO Chairperson D S Gill, General Secretary Mohinder Singh Grewal and its Coordinator (Sikh Affairs), Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba, in a statement here today.

The regrettable move of the SGPC, they said, is replete with creating dissensions in the Panthak as both incumbents not only violate the requisite conditions for the appointment as advertised by the SGPC but also are notoriously controversial for their actions and inactions and blasphemous writings.

They are also hand in glove with the persons ostracized by the panth and declared tankhahias , they added.

Jagtar Singh Jachak, a known Kala Afghana supporter and leader of the anti- Akal Takht lobby, was not only honoured by Kala Afghana but unashamedly towing the Kala Afghana/Spokesman line, ridiculing the office of Jathedar and Singh Sahibs by addressing them as pujaris, thieves, robbers and plunders and anti-panthak in his writings, said the IHRO coordinator for Sikh Affairs Mr Lamba, in a letter written to Chief Granthi of Sri Darbar Sahib.

The letter, copies of which have sent to other jathedars, including Akal Takht and SGPC chief Mr Makkar, adds that the present Guru Granth Sahib, i.e. Damdami Bir was dictated by Guru Gobind Singh with His divine power himself to Bhai Mani Singh at Takht Sri Damdama Sahib. Jachak however had audacity to criticize and condemn this historic incident as farce and claiming this to be a cock and bull story hatched at the behest of certain politicians of Damdama Sahib area. By doing he not only challenged the divinity of Guru Gobind Singh but also created doubts about the history, prestige and position of Damdama Sahib, Damdami Bir and Bhai Mani Singh.

"Jachak is the most unfit person for even consideration for the post for the reason that the pre-requisite qualification of Singh Sahibs as canonized and publicized by SGPC is that the incumbent had to be proficient in the katha of Dasam Granth, Suraj Parkash, Nanak Parkash etc. Jachak has criticized and labelled these panthak granths as anti-Sikh and works of Brahmanical conspiracy."

"Next incumbent for the post is Giani Gurbux Singh Gulshan. Numerous complaints of religious violation against him were filed before Akal Takht. By-passing these will amount to contempt of the highest temporal seat by SGPC itself. Gulshan axing the roots of the panthak belief has in his book created doubts on the five banes by which Guru Gobind Singh bestowed Amrit in 1699.

It will not be out of place to smell the conspiracy hatched way back in 2000 when Spokesman in its April 2000 strongly recommended installation of Gulshan as Jathedar of Akal Takht. Gulshan reciprocated the gesture in 2004 by ushering unfettered praises on the anti- panthak Mohali conference held by Kala Afghana lobby, said the IHRO activists.

The IHRO views these developments with utmost seriousness and declares the move as anti-panthak and is determined to take this case to its logical ends besides hauling these two gentlemen for their blasphemous and anti- Sikh writings in the appropriate court of law.

IHRO, therefore, has urged the SGPC president to desist from this sinister moves as the matter is very serious and sensitive and it should be resolved with the blessings of the entire Panth including all the jathas, jathebandis, sampradas.

Any faltering on this count will prove to be fatal for the panth and the panth would not forgive any one for this misgiving, the IHRO release concluded emotively.

(D S Gill)

Chair IHRO

M 99140 04092

Dasam Granth knowledge now pre-condition for Granthi's job

Written by J Singh, http://worldsikhnews.com

Thursday, August 09, 2007

Amritsar: In a development which is likely to bring the opponents and proponents of the Dasam Granth in an eyeball to eyeball situation once again, the SGPC president Avtar Singh has now issued clear orders that only those Granthis who were well versed with the Dasam Granth can apply for the post of a granthi at the Darbar Sahib, Amritsar.

Earlier, three granthis were recruited by the SGPC but were later shown the door after it was found that they belonged to the anti-Dasam Granth lobby. The Dasam Granth issue has been dividing the community very deeply and the Punjabi daily Spokesman is leading the anti fight from the front even after its editor Joginder Singh was excommunicated by the Akal Takht.

[BABBAR KHALISTANI]

I feel it's a very tricky situation. Hasn't our religion given us full freedon of speech? If yes why can't we debate such contentious issues be it gurmat or gurbani. I doubt if Guru Sahibans would have themselves passed such hukamnamas asking sangat to shut their mouths. To me it's pity that even so called Jathedars have also failed to understand the principles of Sikhi. Yes, they can issue hukamnamas regarding those people using bad language for bani or indulging in nindya but banning even healthy debates to me seems nothing short of dictatorship afterall those questioning dasam bani have valid points as well. Some have overstepped the lines and might have motives (who should be banned) but some do have valid argumentsas well, we shouldn't generalise them all and try to sideline them.

Bhul Chuk Muaff

[Inder Singh]

I feel it's a very tricky situation. Hasn't our religion given us full freedon of speech? If yes why can't we debate such contentious issues be it gurmat or gurbani. I doubt if Guru Sahibans would have themselves passed such hukamnamas asking sangat to shut their mouths. To me it's pity that even so called Jathedars have also failed to understand the principles of Sikhi. Yes, they can issue hukamnamas regarding those people using bad language for bani or indulging in nindya but banning even healthy debates to me seems nothing short of dictatorship afterall those questioning dasam bani have valid points as well. Some have overstepped the lines and might have motives (who should be banned) but some do have valid argumentsas well, we shouldn't generalise them all and try to sideline them.

Bhul Chuk Muaff

Scritures of any religion are above personal scrutiny.Otherwise there will be chaos.

Ghor andhar ji

The issue here is not what he wrote in a particular book.The issue here is his blasphemous interview against Dasam Granth.He is also violating akal takhat sandesh.

I hope you get it and not divert the thread as you always do.

[khalsaland]

I feel it's a very tricky situation. Hasn't our religion given us full freedon of speech? If yes why can't we debate such contentious issues be it gurmat or gurbani. I doubt if Guru Sahibans would have themselves passed such hukamnamas asking sangat to shut their mouths. To me it's pity that even so called Jathedars have also failed to understand the principles of Sikhi. Yes, they can issue hukamnamas regarding those people using bad language for bani or indulging in nindya but banning even healthy debates to me seems nothing short of dictatorship afterall those questioning dasam bani have valid points as well. Some have overstepped the lines and might have motives (who should be banned) but some do have valid argumentsas well, we shouldn't generalise them all and try to sideline them.

Bhul Chuk Muaff

Notion of "healthy debates" only holds valid for discussions that are done in a positive spirit, and not for questioning the foundations of a faith. It has been proven beyond doubt that everyone who had criticised Dasam Bani, from Bhag Singh Ambala, to Kala Afghana, to Darshan Ragi had finally crossed their limits. Hence panth had to take actions against them by issuing Hukamnames.

Like we cant debate our paternity, we cant debate our religious scriptures...