Johlanwala Cult

[N30S1NGH]

Lies! I will reply when the samaa comes to me .

:gg:

I am very sorry to hear that certain people have been upset with the thread around fake Baba's and cults. I am pleased that some Sikhs know the truth.

In the latest issue of the Panjabi newspapers, the Oldbury Gurudwara Parbhandaks make it clear that Jeet Singh cult has left the samparda of Karm Singh Ji Hothi Mardaan & has become a Nirmal Bhekh Hardwari parcharak, these people are more Hindu than Sikh & are a cult they bathe at the Kumbh Mela & their leaders are called Pandits. If I have upset people with this dicsussion i am sorry but we as a nation need to stand up against these individuals as they are the enemies of Sikhi.

Singhballer with all respect you are just another naive person who does not know what is really going on in India or the UK, I suggest you grow up & respect my informed opinion as a sister. Singh_1983 knows what the truth... May Vaheguru give you the strength to continue speaking the truth.

by the way Sant Rosan Singh Samparda Karm Singh Hothi Mardan threatened legal action against both Jeet & Jaspal for using the name of the samparda under false pretences. Jeet has left mainstream Sikh and is a Hindu

Nirmal bhek hardivar are not hindus, their bhek was given by sri guru gobind singh ji himself. Nirmale have two upsamparda's- bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji... bhai dya singh ji upsamparda were given white bhek and bhai dharam singh ji were given sadhu pagva bhek..sri guru gobind singh ji himself wore sadhu bhek once to encourage sikhs not just have shastar vidya but shaasters too(scriptures gyan) vidya.. bhai dya singh ji samparda and bhai dharam singh ji samparda are like brothers... they do cross training and gain bhram vidya.. baba dalel singh maharaj who was also shish of sri hazoor sant karam singh ji hotimardan wale also wore pagva sadhu bana.. would you also call him hindu? have you read their literature to imply they are hindu? they far from hindus... both of samparda's have gone each and every time to kumb mela , have taken sri guru granth sahib there and set up nirmal akhara, debated with many rss individuals.. here modern sikhs whine all day about RSS.. but not even once had guts to debate with them... guess what? nirmale have debated with made them matha taik to guru sahib (ishatdeva).

As far as nit picking issue on tittle pandit....you gotta be joking right? pandit is honorable title.. gurbani talks about real characteristic of pandit... even sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale who is admired by lot of mainstream sikhs were reffered to pandit sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale in many of his liteatures. would you call him RSS?

I don't know anything of sant jeet singh issue.. i won't comment on it but i will definately comment on people who nit pick on small issues and based on these issues to judge an individual.. sikhs have became chamars because of their cham dristi instead of par bhram dai upasak(having bhram dristhi).

over and out.

[N30S1NGH]

Gurfateh

Is this the same Johlanwala that are behind the gurdwara Sahib in oldbury uk?

If it is, then from my knowledge those Singhs are wicked and are panthic. With GURU'S KIRPA i've also had darshan of the Singhs in India and their main headquarters which is near Jallandher. They seem top class Singhs, but chello what do i know, i may not no all the facts.

Could someone pls confirm if Panthic weekly are on about the same Johlanwala Singhs?

Gurfateh ji

There seems to be a division amongst the Singhs in Oldbury as they don't believe the current Sant Jeet Singh, is a Sant & he is trying to get the Deed of Oldbury Gurudwara in his personal name, when the Gurudwara belongs to the Sangat. From my understanding the original Saints of Johlanwala were true saints but the current Saint is not a saint & is in the courts of India and the UK fighting for land and money. This is widely reported in all the panjabi newpapers. Apparently Jeet calls himself a 'Guru' and the monies donated by sangat go to him direct & Not Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, now thats a bit scary!

Phull Chuk Maaf

Navtej Kaur

This one is bit tricky.. it all depends on the intention of this individual. If his intentions is big up himself over sri guru granth sahib ji, then he is clear guilty of misconduct and commited blamphesy but if his intentions are genuine treat sri guru granth sahib ji as ishatdev then its different story.

But generally speaking in nirmal samparda whether upsamparda of bhai dharam singh ji and bhai dya singh ji- you will hear "guru ji in context of vidya gurdev" lot of times. When someone is intiated to sikhi via nirmale, distincation of- Atamdev Guru, Ishatdev Guru and Vidya Guru is clearly made and should not be confused.. for more information... look no further just look at my signature. Nirmale don't have to sugar coat anything to mainstream sikhs.. concepts of contexts of guru based on gurbani are there.. if someones take them out of context.. thats their problem. All this nit picking started from singh sabha lehar..concept of vidya gurdev was non issue before...singh sabha were guilty of seggerating nirmale from the panth, nirmale were always part of the panth ..now they treated as low caste by soo called mainstream sikhs because of their lack of understanding..at this point there are only two bridges between mainstream sikhs and nirmale- 1. Damdami taksal 2. Bhai Dya Singh Upsamparda sub branch (hoti mardan, rara sahib, harkhowale, nanaksar, jian)

[jodhaa]

Fateh Ji

I think we have no clear right to say anything in the current situation unless we are involved in great detail. I only know 100% that Oldbury gurdwara has probably the best marayada ive seen in any UK gurdwara since ever, but was told by some singhs involved in the situation that claims against ownership of the gurdwara and funds were made by people???? which should never have been made because the previous sant maha pursh stated the gurdwara property only for the sangat. I wasnt told in great detail if the current sant has fallen? because the sevadar were more interested in doing seva, but i got the understanding that each one of us even sants can fall to ego...so we should concentrate on ourselves and enjoy and appriciate the maryade given to us by maharaaj

[Singhballer]

Lies! I will reply when the samaa comes to me .

:gg:

I am very sorry to hear that certain people have been upset with the thread around fake Baba's and cults. I am pleased that some Sikhs know the truth.

In the latest issue of the Panjabi newspapers, the Oldbury Gurudwara Parbhandaks make it clear that Jeet Singh cult has left the samparda of Karm Singh Ji Hothi Mardaan & has become a Nirmal Bhekh Hardwari parcharak, these people are more Hindu than Sikh & are a cult they bathe at the Kumbh Mela & their leaders are called Pandits. If I have upset people with this dicsussion i am sorry but we as a nation need to stand up against these individuals as they are the enemies of Sikhi.

Singhballer with all respect you are just another naive person who does not know what is really going on in India or the UK, I suggest you grow up & respect my informed opinion as a sister. Singh_1983 knows what the truth... May Vaheguru give you the strength to continue speaking the truth.

by the way Sant Rosan Singh Samparda Karm Singh Hothi Mardan threatened legal action against both Jeet & Jaspal for using the name of the samparda under false pretences. Jeet has left mainstream Sikh and is a Hindu

I'm sorry but I cannot agree to you calling me naive. You say I don't know what going on in India? Tell me have you even in your life even gone to Johalan Dera? Have you ever had the Darshan of the Sants?

The only thing you know is what you've read in papers or what you have heard from Singhs in the Oldbury Gurdwara. You only know what you've learned from outer sources.

Heres the History

(I will give all the names of these people as soon as my Father returns)

During the end of the life of Sant Gian Singh Ji and Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji, a few "sewadaars" were "helping" the Sants to attain more land and have the deeds to the land put under the name of the Dera. The land that is under the name of the Dera is crores per acre.. an mind boggling amount of money when looked at as a whole. These men extracted money from within the transactions made to aquire the land. Afterward while the land was being registered they tried to put the land under their familys name and inturn literally control the Gurdwaras assets. When the Sants learned of this trickery from people whom were trusted by them they immediately told them to leave the Dera not to ever to return.. in a sense they were barred from the Dera. Most of the people went back to the U.K.. and guess to which place??

That's Correct! Oldbury Gurdwara. This happened 4-5 years ago.

The 3 Gurdwaras in the U.K which are credited to be made by the Dera were actually made by the people and not the Sants. When Sant Gian Singh Ji came to the U.K and Canada, the Sangats gave alot of Maya to Sant Ji. Sant Ji told the Sangat that he had not come to the west to collect money and told them to set up a Gurdwara where they could the Parchaar of Sikhi.. Thats how the Oldbury Gurdwara was made. They Dera NEVER in tries to take over the Gurdwaras in England. The Gurdwara was made by the Sangat for the Sangat and there has never been an approach made to take it over.. that is just a lie fed into the papers. Navtej paanji.. do you really trust the word of these decieving tricksters?

Those people who were told to leave the Gurdwara then tried to get the land through the courts.. and so they tried to sue the Dera for the land. But how can a truthfull Dera of Sadhus whos sole occupation is Waheguru lose a a court case threaded with lies? The Dera won all cases againts them. These same people manipulated the Newspapers.. which is what everyone is reading. They fed in lies to demfame the current Sants and and the Dera.. but the Preemis of the Dera know the truth. These people put in article after article about the Sants saying this in court or ordering the beating of a person.. all lies. I don't blame any of you for what you have said about the Dera or Sants, as it just shows how great of a job these people have done. You say the Oldbury Gurdwara Prabandaks say that Sant Ji has left the Hoti Mardan Sampardha.. well these Prabhandaks are the same who were thrown out of the Dera 4-5 years ago. They are the same who give these report to the paper.

My Father did seva at Johalan Dera every single day for 3 years. Someone here said that Sant Roshan Singh Ji stopped visiting Johalan Dera because of Sant Jeet Singh Ji. My father tells me that through that whole time he never had the Darshan of Sant Roshan Singh Ji at Johalan Dera, meaning that Sant Roshan Singh Ji never visited Johalan Dera. The only time Sant Roshan Singh Ji visited Johalan was when there was a Dastaar Bandi ceremony. The only time my dad has ever seen Sant Roshan Singh Ji was on the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji.. and then obviously Sant Roshan Singh Ji came back to Johalan only 3-4 months later for the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Jeet Singh Ji and Sant Jaspaul Singh Ji after the passing of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji Brakhath.

My Father did seva hand and hand with Sant Jeet Singh Ji for 3 years! Would you rather trust Punjabi Papers or the opinion of a person who spent years with Sant Jeet Singh Ji about what kind of a person Sant Ji is? Both the Sants have an Uchi Avasthaa. All the Shakti of the former Sants is now within Sant Jeet Singh Ji.. they are true Sants.

I plead with you to stop reading newspapers and listening to the cronies who call themselves Sikhs at Oldbury and ask people the actual TRUTH of the Dera. Ask Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale who are in the U.K right now too. If you really want to know about the Sants and Johalan Dera got to them and ask them.. plus they will surely give you the truth.. there can be no doubts about what they tell you.

(I will edit my post to further give more information.. as soon as my Father returns :D )

8 G.S

[N30S1NGH]

Here is dastar bandi ceremony pictures:

http://www.gurdwara.org.uk/gurdwara/media/...astarBandee2002

There you will see pictures of sant roshan singh ji hotimardanwale...amazing pictures of sants dressed up in almast clothes.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

vaheguru the pics of mahapurkhs look amasing

[N30S1NGH]

also look at the link below for their lineage at the bottom of the page:

http://www.gurdwara.org.uk/gurdwara/founders/founders.html

[chardikalla]

Lies! I will reply when the samaa comes to me .

:gg:

I am very sorry to hear that certain people have been upset with the thread around fake Baba's and cults. I am pleased that some Sikhs know the truth.

In the latest issue of the Panjabi newspapers, the Oldbury Gurudwara Parbhandaks make it clear that Jeet Singh cult has left the samparda of Karm Singh Ji Hothi Mardaan & has become a Nirmal Bhekh Hardwari parcharak, these people are more Hindu than Sikh & are a cult they bathe at the Kumbh Mela & their leaders are called Pandits. If I have upset people with this dicsussion i am sorry but we as a nation need to stand up against these individuals as they are the enemies of Sikhi.

Singhballer with all respect you are just another naive person who does not know what is really going on in India or the UK, I suggest you grow up & respect my informed opinion as a sister. Singh_1983 knows what the truth... May Vaheguru give you the strength to continue speaking the truth.

by the way Sant Rosan Singh Samparda Karm Singh Hothi Mardan threatened legal action against both Jeet & Jaspal for using the name of the samparda under false pretences. Jeet has left mainstream Sikh and is a Hindu

I'm sorry but I cannot agree to you calling me naive. You say I don't know what going on in India? Tell me have you even in your life even gone to Johalan Dera? Have you ever had the Darshan of the Sants?

The only thing you know is what you've read in papers or what you have heard from Singhs in the Oldbury Gurdwara. You only know what you've learned from outer sources.

Heres the History

(I will give all the names of these people as soon as my Father returns)

During the end of the life of Sant Gian Singh Ji and Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji, a few "sewadaars" were "helping" the Sants to attain more land and have the deeds to the land put under the name of the Dera. The land that is under the name of the Dera is crores per acre.. an mind boggling amount of money when looked at as a whole. These men extracted money from within the transactions made to aquire the land. Afterward while the land was being registered they tried to put the land under their familys name and inturn literally control the Gurdwaras assets. When the Sants learned of this trickery from people whom were trusted by them they immediately told them to leave the Dera not to ever to return.. in a sense they were barred from the Dera. Most of the people went back to the U.K.. and guess to which place??

That's Correct! Oldbury Gurdwara. This happened 4-5 years ago.

The 3 Gurdwaras in the U.K which are credited to be made by the Dera were actually made by the people and not the Sants. When Sant Gian Singh Ji came to the U.K and Canada, the Sangats gave alot of Maya to Sant Ji. Sant Ji told the Sangat that he had not come to the west to collect money and told them to set up a Gurdwara where they could the Parchaar of Sikhi.. Thats how the Oldbury Gurdwara was made. They Dera NEVER in tries to take over the Gurdwaras in England. The Gurdwara was made by the Sangat for the Sangat and there has never been an approach made to take it over.. that is just a lie fed into the papers. Navtej paanji.. do you really trust the word of these decieving tricksters?

Those people who were told to leave the Gurdwara then tried to get the land through the courts.. and so they tried to sue the Dera for the land. But how can a truthfull Dera of Sadhus whos sole occupation is Waheguru lose a a court case threaded with lies? The Dera won all cases againts them. These same people manipulated the Newspapers.. which is what everyone is reading. They fed in lies to demfame the current Sants and and the Dera.. but the Preemis of the Dera know the truth. These people put in article after article about the Sants saying this in court or ordering the beating of a person.. all lies. I don't blame any of you for what you have said about the Dera or Sants, as it just shows how great of a job these people have done. You say the Oldbury Gurdwara Prabandaks say that Sant Ji has left the Hoti Mardan Sampardha.. well these Prabhandaks are the same who were thrown out of the Dera 4-5 years ago. They are the same who give these report to the paper.

My Father did seva at Johalan Dera every single day for 3 years. Someone here said that Sant Roshan Singh Ji stopped visiting Johalan Dera because of Sant Jeet Singh Ji. My father tells me that through that whole time he never had the Darshan of Sant Roshan Singh Ji at Johalan Dera, meaning that Sant Roshan Singh Ji never visited Johalan Dera. The only time Sant Roshan Singh Ji visited Johalan was when there was a Dastaar Bandi ceremony. The only time my dad has ever seen Sant Roshan Singh Ji was on the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji.. and then obviously Sant Roshan Singh Ji came back to Johalan only 3-4 months later for the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Jeet Singh Ji and Sant Jaspaul Singh Ji after the passing of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji Brakhath.

My Father did seva hand and hand with Sant Jeet Singh Ji for 3 years! Would you rather trust Punjabi Papers or the opinion of a person who spent years with Sant Jeet Singh Ji about what kind of a person Sant Ji is? Both the Sants have an Uchi Avasthaa. All the Shakti of the former Sants is now within Sant Jeet Singh Ji.. they are true Sants.

I plead with you to stop reading newspapers and listening to the cronies who call themselves Sikhs at Oldbury and ask people the actual TRUTH of the Dera. Ask Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale who are in the U.K right now too. If you really want to know about the Sants and Johalan Dera got to them and ask them.. plus they will surely give you the truth.. there can be no doubts about what they tell you.

(I will edit my post to further give more information.. as soon as my Father returns :D )

8 G.S

Sant Baba Roshan Singh Ji was invited by Sabt Baba Gian Singh Ji on every barsi of previous sants but is no longer invited, yet you claim your dad was there for three years. I have videos of Sant Baba Roshan Singh Ji visiting dera and there is no dastaar bandee in sight! I will collate and post all case reference numbers of cases pending to answer those who claim there are no cases pending.

In terms of land misappropriation there was no such incidents involving sikhs from Oldbury and this is blatant slurring. However the land misappropriation by Jeet Singh has been filed in court. The Indian legal system allows Jeet Singh to pay off judges in a smaller court to achieve the judgement mentioned earlier. This is now being contested in the High Court in India. The summary judgement does not confirm accession to gadi at dera and explicitly states that the verdict has no legal application overseas.

Please explain why Kulwinder Singh was brought back in the fold by Jaspal Singh when he was banished from the dera for many years in the life of Sant Baba Gian Singh Ji. This is a man who is on his third marriage (divorced twice) and well known in Bradford and Leeds as a pervert. The only reason Jaspal Singh is in the dera is because he is Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji's nephew and not any spiritual enlightenment. Indeed many suspect that Jeet Singh is being used by Jaspal Singh who has his own agenda. Moreover Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji would have nothing to do with him. Please explain why many senior members sevadars at the dera left after the passing of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji. This includes the right hand man of Sant Baba Gian Singh Ji and Sant Baba Harbhajan Singh Ji's, who was always there with them, being asked to leave immediately after Jeet Singh And Jaspal Singh taking over.

Explain why the true, enlightened ones (Jeet Singh and Jaspal Singh) have banished those at Oldbury who do not believe in them from the dera and Bradford and High Wycombe gurdwaras when the Oldbury committee still allow those opposed to them to come to Oldbury, even though they have on many occassions caused trouble and warranted the police being called to come and restrain them.

It is all very messy and does no credit to genuine sangat in Bradford, Oldbury and all across the world.

[singh_1983]

Lies! I will reply when the samaa comes to me .

:gg:

I am very sorry to hear that certain people have been upset with the thread around fake Baba's and cults. I am pleased that some Sikhs know the truth.

In the latest issue of the Panjabi newspapers, the Oldbury Gurudwara Parbhandaks make it clear that Jeet Singh cult has left the samparda of Karm Singh Ji Hothi Mardaan & has become a Nirmal Bhekh Hardwari parcharak, these people are more Hindu than Sikh & are a cult they bathe at the Kumbh Mela & their leaders are called Pandits. If I have upset people with this dicsussion i am sorry but we as a nation need to stand up against these individuals as they are the enemies of Sikhi.

Singhballer with all respect you are just another naive person who does not know what is really going on in India or the UK, I suggest you grow up & respect my informed opinion as a sister. Singh_1983 knows what the truth... May Vaheguru give you the strength to continue speaking the truth.

by the way Sant Rosan Singh Samparda Karm Singh Hothi Mardan threatened legal action against both Jeet & Jaspal for using the name of the samparda under false pretences. Jeet has left mainstream Sikh and is a Hindu

I'm sorry but I cannot agree to you calling me naive. You say I don't know what going on in India? Tell me have you even in your life even gone to Johalan Dera? Have you ever had the Darshan of the Sants?

The only thing you know is what you've read in papers or what you have heard from Singhs in the Oldbury Gurdwara. You only know what you've learned from outer sources.

Heres the History

(I will give all the names of these people as soon as my Father returns)

During the end of the life of Sant Gian Singh Ji and Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji, a few "sewadaars" were "helping" the Sants to attain more land and have the deeds to the land put under the name of the Dera. The land that is under the name of the Dera is crores per acre.. an mind boggling amount of money when looked at as a whole. These men extracted money from within the transactions made to aquire the land. Afterward while the land was being registered they tried to put the land under their familys name and inturn literally control the Gurdwaras assets. When the Sants learned of this trickery from people whom were trusted by them they immediately told them to leave the Dera not to ever to return.. in a sense they were barred from the Dera. Most of the people went back to the U.K.. and guess to which place??

That's Correct! Oldbury Gurdwara. This happened 4-5 years ago.

The 3 Gurdwaras in the U.K which are credited to be made by the Dera were actually made by the people and not the Sants. When Sant Gian Singh Ji came to the U.K and Canada, the Sangats gave alot of Maya to Sant Ji. Sant Ji told the Sangat that he had not come to the west to collect money and told them to set up a Gurdwara where they could the Parchaar of Sikhi.. Thats how the Oldbury Gurdwara was made. They Dera NEVER in tries to take over the Gurdwaras in England. The Gurdwara was made by the Sangat for the Sangat and there has never been an approach made to take it over.. that is just a lie fed into the papers. Navtej paanji.. do you really trust the word of these decieving tricksters?

Those people who were told to leave the Gurdwara then tried to get the land through the courts.. and so they tried to sue the Dera for the land. But how can a truthfull Dera of Sadhus whos sole occupation is Waheguru lose a a court case threaded with lies? The Dera won all cases againts them. These same people manipulated the Newspapers.. which is what everyone is reading. They fed in lies to demfame the current Sants and and the Dera.. but the Preemis of the Dera know the truth. These people put in article after article about the Sants saying this in court or ordering the beating of a person.. all lies. I don't blame any of you for what you have said about the Dera or Sants, as it just shows how great of a job these people have done. You say the Oldbury Gurdwara Prabandaks say that Sant Ji has left the Hoti Mardan Sampardha.. well these Prabhandaks are the same who were thrown out of the Dera 4-5 years ago. They are the same who give these report to the paper.

My Father did seva at Johalan Dera every single day for 3 years. Someone here said that Sant Roshan Singh Ji stopped visiting Johalan Dera because of Sant Jeet Singh Ji. My father tells me that through that whole time he never had the Darshan of Sant Roshan Singh Ji at Johalan Dera, meaning that Sant Roshan Singh Ji never visited Johalan Dera. The only time Sant Roshan Singh Ji visited Johalan was when there was a Dastaar Bandi ceremony. The only time my dad has ever seen Sant Roshan Singh Ji was on the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji.. and then obviously Sant Roshan Singh Ji came back to Johalan only 3-4 months later for the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Jeet Singh Ji and Sant Jaspaul Singh Ji after the passing of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji Brakhath.

My Father did seva hand and hand with Sant Jeet Singh Ji for 3 years! Would you rather trust Punjabi Papers or the opinion of a person who spent years with Sant Jeet Singh Ji about what kind of a person Sant Ji is? Both the Sants have an Uchi Avasthaa. All the Shakti of the former Sants is now within Sant Jeet Singh Ji.. they are true Sants.

I plead with you to stop reading newspapers and listening to the cronies who call themselves Sikhs at Oldbury and ask people the actual TRUTH of the Dera. Ask Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale who are in the U.K right now too. If you really want to know about the Sants and Johalan Dera got to them and ask them.. plus they will surely give you the truth.. there can be no doubts about what they tell you.

(I will edit my post to further give more information.. as soon as my Father returns :D )

8 G.S

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

bhai sahib, i find your coments about the singhs from oldbury gurdwara and the fact the you claim that the dera does not want to have control of the gurdwaree in england obsurd to say the very least. you say you have the names of those people who tried to put the land of the dera in their own names, please provide their names. 2ndly, Jeet Singh has requested that the constituitions of all 3 ghurdwaree in england to be changed, of which bradford has agreed but oldbuy has not. oldbury gurdwara has changed the constitution as far as saying that if the gurdwara was ever to be closed down for what ever reason, the property of the gurdwara should be given to the akaal takht, the supreme throne of the sikh panth. Jeet Singh has tried to change the punj singhs that run the gurdwara, something which very rarely has occured in the past, in my recolection this has only occured once before in the history of the gurdwaree. it has to be asked why these singhs are being removed. when previous singhs have been removed from seva it has been due to mistakes that the sevadars have made, not just for the fun of it. the new commitee is now being run by the famous sheergill, the one who had control of smethwick gurdwara for many years. sheergill with the other new sevardars are now attempting civil action against those individuals that refuse to go against the hukam of the oldbury sangat. the hukam of the sangat, is to run the gurdwara how it has been running for the previous years.

you claim the gurdwara was made for the sangat, if this is the case, please let the sangat run the gurdwara as the sangat requests. the individuals who have run the gurdwara for the last 20odd years have been doing itwith the blessing of the sangat. the new committee that Jeet singh has chosen do not even do seva at oldbury, and have not been doing so for the last few years. sheergill, ragi harkeeval singh and the other recruits from cov, lesta, etc have not been doing nishkam seva for the last 5-10 years, with sum doing no seva watsoever, but still love coming to the gurdwara to try and force their way in.

your father has not seen sant roshan singh at johalaan, but this does not devalue the position and respect the baba ji holds, afterall baba ji did the dastar bandi of varakat ji, and in one of the photos of te dastar bandi you can see sant harbhajan singh ji bowing down to touch the feet of baba roshan singh ji. this shows he respect that the mahapurshs of johalaan have held for the mahapurks of hoti mardaan.

i hope baba ji is watching everything that is going on 2day, and the truth prevails. baba ji had love for simran n seva, that is why we see the rehat maryada of the gurdwara being so strict, as mahapurck wanted seva to be done how it should be. may the gursikhs keep their love for doing seva of the sangat, and not forget that this is the most improtant thing here.

the thing that baffles me the most, is why would jeet singh want to change how the gurdwaraa have been run. the old saying of..."if its not broke, dont try to fix it" springs to mind. hopefully the truth prevails.

and bhai sahib, i am some1 who has been fortunate to have the darsham of baba gian sinh ji, baba harbhajan singh ji, and have also met Jeet Singh ji. i have been to the dera on many, many occasions, and have been luky enough to speak to sevadaars who have lived, slept and eaten with baba gian singh ji and value their opinion vary highly, but at the very same time i am some who is nothing but a slave of the darbar of guru granth sahib ji maharaj. the only thing that i can say of this issue is that nots let forget to build our own jeevan while tryng to argue about the jeevan of others.

wahegur ji ka khalsa waheguru j ki fateh

[KING_SINGH]

Lies! I will reply when the samaa comes to me .

:gg:

I am very sorry to hear that certain people have been upset with the thread around fake Baba's and cults. I am pleased that some Sikhs know the truth.

In the latest issue of the Panjabi newspapers, the Oldbury Gurudwara Parbhandaks make it clear that Jeet Singh cult has left the samparda of Karm Singh Ji Hothi Mardaan & has become a Nirmal Bhekh Hardwari parcharak, these people are more Hindu than Sikh & are a cult they bathe at the Kumbh Mela & their leaders are called Pandits. If I have upset people with this dicsussion i am sorry but we as a nation need to stand up against these individuals as they are the enemies of Sikhi.

Singhballer with all respect you are just another naive person who does not know what is really going on in India or the UK, I suggest you grow up & respect my informed opinion as a sister. Singh_1983 knows what the truth... May Vaheguru give you the strength to continue speaking the truth.

by the way Sant Rosan Singh Samparda Karm Singh Hothi Mardan threatened legal action against both Jeet & Jaspal for using the name of the samparda under false pretences. Jeet has left mainstream Sikh and is a Hindu

I'm sorry but I cannot agree to you calling me naive. You say I don't know what going on in India? Tell me have you even in your life even gone to Johalan Dera? Have you ever had the Darshan of the Sants?

The only thing you know is what you've read in papers or what you have heard from Singhs in the Oldbury Gurdwara. You only know what you've learned from outer sources.

Heres the History

(I will give all the names of these people as soon as my Father returns)

During the end of the life of Sant Gian Singh Ji and Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji, a few "sewadaars" were "helping" the Sants to attain more land and have the deeds to the land put under the name of the Dera. The land that is under the name of the Dera is crores per acre.. an mind boggling amount of money when looked at as a whole. These men extracted money from within the transactions made to aquire the land. Afterward while the land was being registered they tried to put the land under their familys name and inturn literally control the Gurdwaras assets. When the Sants learned of this trickery from people whom were trusted by them they immediately told them to leave the Dera not to ever to return.. in a sense they were barred from the Dera. Most of the people went back to the U.K.. and guess to which place??

That's Correct! Oldbury Gurdwara. This happened 4-5 years ago.

The 3 Gurdwaras in the U.K which are credited to be made by the Dera were actually made by the people and not the Sants. When Sant Gian Singh Ji came to the U.K and Canada, the Sangats gave alot of Maya to Sant Ji. Sant Ji told the Sangat that he had not come to the west to collect money and told them to set up a Gurdwara where they could the Parchaar of Sikhi.. Thats how the Oldbury Gurdwara was made. They Dera NEVER in tries to take over the Gurdwaras in England. The Gurdwara was made by the Sangat for the Sangat and there has never been an approach made to take it over.. that is just a lie fed into the papers. Navtej paanji.. do you really trust the word of these decieving tricksters?

Those people who were told to leave the Gurdwara then tried to get the land through the courts.. and so they tried to sue the Dera for the land. But how can a truthfull Dera of Sadhus whos sole occupation is Waheguru lose a a court case threaded with lies? The Dera won all cases againts them. These same people manipulated the Newspapers.. which is what everyone is reading. They fed in lies to demfame the current Sants and and the Dera.. but the Preemis of the Dera know the truth. These people put in article after article about the Sants saying this in court or ordering the beating of a person.. all lies. I don't blame any of you for what you have said about the Dera or Sants, as it just shows how great of a job these people have done. You say the Oldbury Gurdwara Prabandaks say that Sant Ji has left the Hoti Mardan Sampardha.. well these Prabhandaks are the same who were thrown out of the Dera 4-5 years ago. They are the same who give these report to the paper.

My Father did seva at Johalan Dera every single day for 3 years. Someone here said that Sant Roshan Singh Ji stopped visiting Johalan Dera because of Sant Jeet Singh Ji. My father tells me that through that whole time he never had the Darshan of Sant Roshan Singh Ji at Johalan Dera, meaning that Sant Roshan Singh Ji never visited Johalan Dera. The only time Sant Roshan Singh Ji visited Johalan was when there was a Dastaar Bandi ceremony. The only time my dad has ever seen Sant Roshan Singh Ji was on the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji.. and then obviously Sant Roshan Singh Ji came back to Johalan only 3-4 months later for the Dastaar Bandi of Sant Jeet Singh Ji and Sant Jaspaul Singh Ji after the passing of Sant Harbhajan Singh Ji Brakhath.

My Father did seva hand and hand with Sant Jeet Singh Ji for 3 years! Would you rather trust Punjabi Papers or the opinion of a person who spent years with Sant Jeet Singh Ji about what kind of a person Sant Ji is? Both the Sants have an Uchi Avasthaa. All the Shakti of the former Sants is now within Sant Jeet Singh Ji.. they are true Sants.

I plead with you to stop reading newspapers and listening to the cronies who call themselves Sikhs at Oldbury and ask people the actual TRUTH of the Dera. Ask Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale who are in the U.K right now too. If you really want to know about the Sants and Johalan Dera got to them and ask them.. plus they will surely give you the truth.. there can be no doubts about what they tell you.

(I will edit my post to further give more information.. as soon as my Father returns :D )

8 G.S

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

bhai sahib, i find your coments about the singhs from oldbury gurdwara and the fact the you claim that the dera does not want to have control of the gurdwaree in england obsurd to say the very least. you say you have the names of those people who tried to put the land of the dera in their own names, please provide their names. 2ndly, Jeet Singh has requested that the constituitions of all 3 ghurdwaree in england to be changed, of which bradford has agreed but oldbuy has not. oldbury gurdwara has changed the constitution as far as saying that if the gurdwara was ever to be closed down for what ever reason, the property of the gurdwara should be given to the akaal takht, the supreme throne of the sikh panth. Jeet Singh has tried to change the punj singhs that run the gurdwara, something which very rarely has occured in the past, in my recolection this has only occured once before in the history of the gurdwaree. it has to be asked why these singhs are being removed. when previous singhs have been removed from seva it has been due to mistakes that the sevadars have made, not just for the fun of it. the new commitee is now being run by the famous sheergill, the one who had control of smethwick gurdwara for many years. sheergill with the other new sevardars are now attempting civil action against those individuals that refuse to go against the hukam of the oldbury sangat. the hukam of the sangat, is to run the gurdwara how it has been running for the previous years.

you claim the gurdwara was made for the sangat, if this is the case, please let the sangat run the gurdwara as the sangat requests. the individuals who have run the gurdwara for the last 20odd years have been doing itwith the blessing of the sangat. the new committee that Jeet singh has chosen do not even do seva at oldbury, and have not been doing so for the last few years. sheergill, ragi harkeeval singh and the other recruits from cov, lesta, etc have not been doing nishkam seva for the last 5-10 years, with sum doing no seva watsoever, but still love coming to the gurdwara to try and force their way in.

your father has not seen sant roshan singh at johalaan, but this does not devalue the position and respect the baba ji holds, afterall baba ji did the dastar bandi of varakat ji, and in one of the photos of te dastar bandi you can see sant harbhajan singh ji bowing down to touch the feet of baba roshan singh ji. this shows he respect that the mahapurshs of johalaan have held for the mahapurks of hoti mardaan.

i hope baba ji is watching everything that is going on 2day, and the truth prevails. baba ji had love for simran n seva, that is why we see the rehat maryada of the gurdwara being so strict, as mahapurck wanted seva to be done how it should be. may the gursikhs keep their love for doing seva of the sangat, and not forget that this is the most improtant thing here.

the thing that baffles me the most, is why would jeet singh want to change how the gurdwaraa have been run. the old saying of..."if its not broke, dont try to fix it" springs to mind. hopefully the truth prevails.

and bhai sahib, i am some1 who has been fortunate to have the darsham of baba gian sinh ji, baba harbhajan singh ji, and have also met Jeet Singh ji. i have been to the dera on many, many occasions, and have been luky enough to speak to sevadaars who have lived, slept and eaten with baba gian singh ji and value their opinion vary highly, but at the very same time i am some who is nothing but a slave of the darbar of guru granth sahib ji maharaj. the only thing that i can say of this issue is that nots let forget to build our own jeevan while tryng to argue about the jeevan of others.

wahegur ji ka khalsa waheguru j ki fateh

Before you start giving it large and accusing Sant of non appropriate things, look at yourself and do a spell check, i dont understand half the things youve said