Guru Ji's Family Tree

[davinder.singh]

PS:Not revised so may have spelling errors.

SSA Ji,

Sikh is Hindu or not ? This is good question and we all are spending our energy to convince the other and in turn we are becoming opposite of that what we are saying. This is similar to a person who is saying that I am not kid while by saying this he is behaving like kid. So if a Sikh says "Sikh is not Hindu" , in true sense he is Hindu and if Sikh says "Sikhs are Hindu", in true sense he is Sikh. Irritating, please go ahead reading may be I am wrong I will revert back my statement.

Personally I think Sikh(not Singh, I will talk about this later) and Hindu are two different character and further we all agree on below two facts

1. Sikh character came after Hindu character.

2. Meaning of Sikh character is that one who is always ready to learn.

These two facts tells that our guru Ji realised that Hindu character has some problem in learning new things so they developed new character called Sikh. Before moving to Sikh character lets talk about what problem Hindu Character had that time.I am writing some points from my point of view which may be wrong, please correct them with your valuable feedback

1. Hindu character was over dominated by Pundits(one who know religion fully)

2. Hindi character was fully dependent on Pundits for all his religious tasks from birth to death.

3. Hindu character was caste based and further caste was from birth.

4.

Please correct above and add more points. Now the question comes why Hindu character had above problems and further those problems were from starting or came with time. As far as cast in Hinduism(Thinking based on Hindu Character) is concerned, in true sense it was based on nature on work but with time it get converted to by birth. Why ! Actually the cast Pundit has only work to do religious work and he earn for this. Further he does not have any other source of income.To secure his earning, Pundit had made Hinduism more and more difficult or in other word I can say that Hinduism was spoiled by Pundits. Hard wording so in soft wording I can say that as religious responsibility of Hinduism was on Pundits so they have the moral responsibility of all bad things in Hinduism like Sati Pratha, Untouchable, non flexibility in religion etc. Pundits spoiled Hinduism by introducing following things in Hindusim

1. By Birth caste so their kids are owner of religious shops.

2. Not making "Sanskrit" are spoken language. Further Sanskrit is taught to one part of religion. Keep your business secrets.

3. Make religion hard to follow so that no one else is per fact in religion and they have continuous earning. In true sense any religion should make the life simple not hard. But Pundits made it reverse.

4. Telling everyone that Hinduism is only the only perfect way of living and by this way only they can go to heaven etc. Marketing slogan to keep customer base.

You can correct above points and add more. Our Guru Ji realized above things in Hinduism and came up Sikhism(Thinking based on Sikh Character) with the following unique and totally different to Hinduism at that time

1. First no caste and if any defiantly not based on birth.(Correct me as I am not sure about cast in Sikhism. But one of my friend says it was there based on responsibilities)

2. Religious talks and Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in common man language Punjabi of that time.

3. No cast was prompted as Pundits of Sikhism but indeed every Sikh himself has direct communication with Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and further he can do himself all his religious work without the need of any one else from Birth to death. So no one was there for which Sikhism was professions so that no one could spoil Sikhism with marketing slogans.

4. Sikhism had made religion very simple to follow i.e. no need to do prayer every day, on every occasion big religious ceremony etc. The only thing Sikhism was saying was that there is only one GOD and he is truth rest all was explanation of this. This is visible in first two words on Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This concept had completely changed the common man life and made it quite simple. The only thing as a Sikh they have to follow was that they are not different from any other religion as there is one GOD and we all are kids of HIM. Further he is true so if we have to get him we should be true i.e. true to everything including true to profession, mother , father, country, etc.

You can correct above points and add more. Now after 500 years(not 300 years as that is for Singh), we have nearly lost all they basic points of Sikhism and becoming more like Hinduism

1. Now we have Granthi, Pathi, Ragi , Bahi etc having no other profession than religious work. They are the first danger to Sikhism. They are trying very hard to secure their profession. They are trying this with these ways

A. Make Sikh life hard to follow like read "Sikh Reht Maryada" so that no Sikh is prefect. I think "Sikh Reht Maryada" should one liner "Be true and respect others" which is first two words of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If "Sikh Reht Maryada" was required then I think Guru Ji had added to that to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Writing separate "Sikh Reht Maryada" says that our Guru Ji do not have vision beyond 200 years so they forget to write "Sikh Reht Maryada" and now we are doing so. Our Guru Ji is live as Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and if required we can get our guidance from HIM.

Sorry I do not much time to write in details now so I will try to write main points if required will write in details in future.

B.Make religion out of reach from common man like proper respect for Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji etc.

C.Create untouchable like Amritdhari can not eat with non Amritdhari

D.Create hierarchy of Sikhness

E. You can correct above and add more points

......

......

Due to time constraints lets come to first question about Sikh is Hindu or not. So here is the my opinion which I can change based on your arguments

1. If as a Singh you say Sikh is not Hindu then you are Hindu due to following points

A.You believe cast based on Birth as most Sikhs are by birth which are Singhs also. This is one character of Hinduism

B.You take religion for life and not religion as a way for life. You are hard to change like Pundits which is also one character of Hinduism

2. If as a Singh you say Sikh is Hindu then you are Sikh due to following points

A. Please write some points yourself as I am unable to get any points now.

Best Regards,

Davinder

[apne]

Davinder singh, are you on drugs or something? :wacko: Guru Nanak's religion was not a reform movement, as you see it. Go and drown in Ganga mata.

[apne]

What crap are you quoting. This is the same stuff used by RSS to claim Guru Nanak was avtaar of Vishnu, just as they claim Buddha was avtaar of Vishnu. This is what hindus want to hear, that Guru Nanak had no special mission and his philosophy was only borrowed from ancient hindu texts and why worship the duplicate copy (Guru Nanak) when you have the original (Vishnu).

[Bundha]

if the hindus (and some of our own idiots) are hell bent on saying that Sikhs are Hindus, then Sikhism has to be the ultimate goal of the hindus, it is the culmination of all their thousands of years of Dharama.

So come on Hindus - Sajaa a Dastaar, put on the five Kakkars take the paul and become Guru thay piyario.

[TheVampire]

IMHO -

Guru Nanak Ji did not see himself as belonging to a particular religion.

Neither a Hindu or a Muslim - Guru Ji was truly universal - universal religion which is mankind.

Guru Ji did not say neither a Hindu or a Muslim but Sikh..........

It is only later that Sikhs wanted to have a seperate id for themselves and they have sought to distort history and proclaim that Guru Nanak Ji started a seperate religion - Sikhi. In my view this is wrong.

All through the Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is emphasised the universitality of mankind - and that God loves all men. "Of all the faiths the best one is the one in which God's praises are sung......Of all the places the best one is in the heart where resounds the Name"

[Singhstah]

On his way towards Deccan, Guru Gobind Singh reached Pushkar .The discussion that took place there is recorded this way in Surya Prakash.

Brahmins, Merchants and others came with Pandit Chaitin. Having made salutation they sat down in the assembly and asked, “What is their Caste? How we recognize them. Your companions wear unshorn hair, what we can say is their Caste? There are many new garbs, but none of them is Hindu or Moslem.” Having heard that Guru replied, “Khalsa is the third Panth in the world. It is distinct from Hindus and Moslems. They are servants of the Eternal, Immortal.” When Guru Gobind Singh met the Emperor Bahadur Shah, this discussion transpired.

Bahadur Shah said, “There are two religions, Hindus and Moslems, What appeals to you? On what you have faith, Hinduism or Islam?”

To that Guru Gobind Singh replied, "Hindu, Moslems whatever way they follow we wish them both well. The Moslems preach fasting; prayer call and five prayers are supreme for them. Hindus perform Sandhya, adoration and rites of stone Gods, and such others are acceptable to Hindus. We consider both the same way abandoning all others; we have established the Khalsa as the third (religion). Without distinction we abandon all else and seek the shelter of the Eternal, the Purusha." (Gur Pratap Surya)

(Searchsikhism.com)

[TheVampire]

I base my quotes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you base them from other texts- that could be made up or written by ordinary men.

Who's your Guru?

[THE WARRIOR]

What crap are you quoting. This is the same stuff used by RSS to claim Guru Nanak was avtaar of Vishnu, just as they claim Buddha was avtaar of Vishnu. This is what hindus want to hear, that Guru Nanak had no special mission and his philosophy was only borrowed from ancient hindu texts and why worship the duplicate copy (Guru Nanak) when you have the original (Vishnu).

Gautama the first Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu as stated in Choubis Avatar. Guru Nanak Dev Ji however was not an Avatar of Vishnu or any other.

[SunSingh]

IMHO -

Guru Nanak Ji did not see himself as belonging to a particular religion.

Neither a Hindu or a Muslim - Guru Ji was truly universal - universal religion which is mankind.

Guru Ji did not say neither a Hindu or a Muslim but Sikh..........

It is only later that Sikhs wanted to have a seperate id for themselves and they have sought to distort history and proclaim that Guru Nanak Ji started a seperate religion - Sikhi. In my view this is wrong.

All through the Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is emphasised the universitality of mankind - and that God loves all men. "Of all the faiths the best one is the one in which God's praises are sung......Of all the places the best one is in the heart where resounds the Name"

There is only one Guru who came in different bodies. The 10th Nanak rejected teh authority of the Vedas and Koran in Dasam Granth SAhib ji, and he repeatedly emphasized not only the distinctiveness of Sikh identity, but the Requirement for the distinctiveness for a sikh to be as sikh. As all the Guru's are the same light, this proves that the 1st Nanak also meant to create 'Tisra Panth'. In fact, the 6th Guru was asked how many more gurus there woudl be, he said there would be 4 more, the first 9 to lay the foundation, and the 10th to build the house.

There is nothing in Sikh philosophy that contradicts this. You can't just pick and choose some random tuks of Gurbani completely out of context.

[Singhstah]

I base my quotes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you base them from other texts- that could be made up or written by ordinary men.

Who's your Guru?

ROFL, your the dude who doesn't know the difference between the meaning of Guru and Rehat Maryada!

Anyway, when you say Guroo Ji didn't start a seperate religion, could you care to expand on this please? What exactly is it that we are not seperate from?