Darshan Ragi In Ireland

[WBA]

in any court in the west, ignorance is no defence. it is one thing to be ignorant of truth and falsehood, but to knowingly step on the wrong path..

there is little difference between Darshan and Gurmeet Ram Rahim in terms of what they desire for the Panth, only difference is one is doing it internally and the other externally. Gurmeet is probably doing it for the lifestyle and money, Darshan is probably doing it to help future generations of his family financially whilst settling old scores with enemies in the process.

everything he says must be replied to but from now on rather than just reacting to these madmen we need to go on the offensive and do parchaar of Sri Dasam Guru Durbar & Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj in terms of their universal message of love that crosses all boundaries.

Sikhlionz: 'Darshan is probably doing it to help future generations of his family financially whilst settling old scores with enemies in the process'

Your proof is where ? How much is he getting at these programmes -can you be sure ?

Conjecture Sikhlionz. Pure conjecture.

[Inder Singh]

CHILDREN,

Well done your parents work and can afford the Internet for you !

I read this post with disgust. You are 'supposed' to be my brothers and sisters. I could really give you all a mighty Singh slap. No one is a kala-afgana unless the Akal Takht says so ! No one is anti-Gurmat unless the Akal Takht says so. Just because people dont agree with your personal views and intrepretation of Sikhi does not make them wrong.

Listen, reseach and debate with reason.

How many of you have actually read/ researched the Dasam Granth ?

Until then keep shut and let learned scholars do their pitch -in fact go down to these programmes and reason with them (with manners).

Gurdwarae should host programmes to raise Sikhi awareness. Well done to all the Gurdwaras and their managing committees who dont follow the weak. Look forward to the programmes.

IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA

If someone has the poorest knowledge about Dasam Granth, he is this ragi who can do kirtan from a written parchi in front of him. He knows nothing about braj bhasha, history a, myths and symbolism used extensvely used in Dasam Granth.

He is a singer and not a historian or a reasearcher. I have read Dasam Granth. I can say without an iota of doubt it is entirely work of tenth amster.

If you tout for Darshan ragi bring him for a discussion with us. We are ordinary sikhs and no scholars. He is misleading sikhs.

[Inder Singh]

our proof is where ? How much is he getting at these programmes -can you be sure ?

Conjecture Sikhlionz. Pure conjecture.

Have you read book "open scerets " written by ex Indian intelligence chief MK dhar about sikh militancy in 1980s. Darshan's name is there.Go and read that.

In one of the video put online Darshan Ragi says that there was no dasam Granth during Guru ji's times. It appeared 100 years after Guru ji.

Charles Malcolm was an English Military Colonel who went to Amritsar in pursuit of Holkar in 1805. There was a Gurmatta held by Ranjit singh in 1805. He wrote what he saw there in his book " Sketch of Sikhs".

Please read he writes that sikhs when do Gurmatta place two Granths SGGS and Dasam Granth in the gathering. Here Darshan Ragi is caught high and dry.

Read

Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab, written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm’s work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18^th century .

Guru-mata

When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs. When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab. (pages. 120-123) ________________________

*Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India (1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836).

[WBA]

our proof is where ? How much is he getting at these programmes -can you be sure ?

Conjecture Sikhlionz. Pure conjecture.

Have you read book "open scerets " written by ex Indian intelligence chief MK dhar about sikh militancy in 1980s. Darshan's name is there.Go and read that.

Has it ever occured to you that MK Dhar may be 'playing his readership against Darshan' -after all he is ex Indian intel !

As impressionable, IT literate individuals we should not beleive everything me read verbautim. We have an ideal opportunity to ask these questions -once and for all to the actual authors (Darshan, Gulshan) and get their response.

I urge the managing committees of these Gurdwarae who will host these programmes:

1. Darshan and Gulshan are intellects (like it or not) and controversial

2. Make sure strong security is setup and have zero-policy for any trouble makers

3. Questions should be rooted to the mangement committee to present to these scholars so they may respond

4. These events should be recorded and distributed. Let it be known the questions and answers given and these scholars views

5. This approach will be the only way their works will be accepted or challenged

6. Everything else is futile and just a childrens pantomine cussing match !

7. DO NOT CANCEL THESE PROGRAMMES.

[Inder Singh]

our proof is where ? How much is he getting at these programmes -can you be sure ?

Conjecture Sikhlionz. Pure conjecture.

Have you read book "open scerets " written by ex Indian intelligence chief MK dhar about sikh militancy in 1980s. Darshan's name is there.Go and read that.

Has it ever occured to you that MK Dhar may be 'playing his readership against Darshan' -after all he is ex Indian intel !

As impressionable, IT literate individuals we should not beleive everything me read verbautim. We have an ideal opportunity to ask these questions -once and for all to the actual authors (Darshan, Gulshan) and get their response.

I urge the managing committees of these Gurdwarae who will host these programmes:

1. Darshan and Gulshan are intellects (like it or not) and controversial

2. Make sure strong security is setup and have zero-policy for any trouble makers

3. Questions should be rooted to the mangement committee to present to these scholars so they may respond

4. These events should be recorded and distributed. Let it be known the questions and answers given and these scholars views

5. This approach will be the only way their works will be accepted or challenged

6. Everything else is futile and just a childrens pantomine cussing match !

7. DO NOT CANCEL THESE PROGRAMMES.

MK Dhar writes about himself also being sympathetic to RSS and other weak points. he condemns GOI for many lapses. He indicts other sikh leaders also being in league with GOI.

When he wrote the book Darshan singh was not anti Dasam Granth or anti Amrit sanchar banis. Your logic is completely out of touch with time of events and holds no ground.

Sikhs do not hold discussions with those who are ridiculing their nitnem and Amrit sanchar banis.Read some thing about sikh tarditions before participating in discussions here.

Do your home work first about sikhism.

[khalsaland]

our proof is where ? How much is he getting at these programmes -can you be sure ?

Conjecture Sikhlionz. Pure conjecture.

Have you read book "open scerets " written by ex Indian intelligence chief MK dhar about sikh militancy in 1980s. Darshan's name is there.Go and read that.

Has it ever occured to you that MK Dhar may be 'playing his readership against Darshan' -after all he is ex Indian intel !

As impressionable, IT literate individuals we should not beleive everything me read verbautim. We have an ideal opportunity to ask these questions -once and for all to the actual authors (Darshan, Gulshan) and get their response.

I urge the managing committees of these Gurdwarae who will host these programmes:

1. Darshan and Gulshan are intellects (like it or not) and controversial

2. Make sure strong security is setup and have zero-policy for any trouble makers

3. Questions should be rooted to the mangement committee to present to these scholars so they may respond

4. These events should be recorded and distributed. Let it be known the questions and answers given and these scholars views

5. This approach will be the only way their works will be accepted or challenged

6. Everything else is futile and just a childrens pantomine cussing match !

7. DO NOT CANCEL THESE PROGRAMMES.

WBA

Would you ask for the same privileges for Gurmeet Ram Rahim, Nirankaris, Radhasoamis and Bhaniyarewale what you are asking for Darshan?

What more proof do you want of Darshan's blasphemous views? They are everywhere and he doesnt keep any secret of his views..He has also become an IT savvy by putting his views everywhere on the internet.

It is clear from your posts that you have had no exposure to Darshan's views. So instead of calling people 'children' and offering to 'slap' them I think you should first do a bit of research yourself.

[WBA]

[

Inder Singh Ji I am in no position to counter your research, I thank you for your speedy response.

Whilst I have not read the Dasam Granth and you have, may i ask with respect:

1. Why did the Gurus themselves not place those works/ efforts into the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji themselves. Why after several years after the death of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was it compiled -what gave them that right to compile on behalf of the Sikh Panth?

2. Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the highest and only Guru of the Sikh Panth -if it is, then how does the Dasam Granth fit in?

3. How can the authenticity, consistency and seal of approval of Dasam Granth be taken in its current form -what measures through history and what entities can confirm this?

4. Where specifically in the Maryada of the Akal Takht (page number/ paragraph, etc) does it say we should follow the teachings of Dasam Granth?

Thank you and regards.

[AK-47]

CHILDREN,

Well done your parents work and can afford the Internet for you !

I read this post with disgust. You are 'supposed' to be my brothers and sisters. I could really give you all a mighty Singh slap. No one is a kala-afgana unless the Akal Takht says so ! No one is anti-Gurmat unless the Akal Takht says so. Just because people dont agree with your personal views and intrepretation of Sikhi does not make them wrong.

Listen, reseach and debate with reason.

How many of you have actually read/ researched the Dasam Granth ?

Until then keep shut and let learned scholars do their pitch -in fact go down to these programmes and reason with them (with manners).

Gurdwarae should host programmes to raise Sikhi awareness. Well done to all the Gurdwaras and their managing committees who dont follow the weak. Look forward to the programmes.

IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA

Yes our parents do work and can afford the internet .. the same way we also work and can afford to pay our own bills. Very very lame attempt try something better next time.

If you could really give us a slap then please by all means dont hold back. On one hand your opposing our peaceful means of stopping what we percieve to be anti-gurmat parchar and on the other your saying you could slap us for our beliefs and for our stance!?!? Maybe we should forget trying to cancel the progs and just give the prof a big slap as well ... taking a leaf out of your book.

Let them do their pitch?!? They are not selling some new product that they need to pitch to us!! They are questioning the very minimum that keeps the panth together, the nitnem banis!!

The prof has been challeneged in india and other places. See the videos above! He even signed to say he would be quiet lol!!

Chal you ring the gurdwaras as well then and make sure you turn up on the day to slap all the singhs that think these programmes shouldnt happen. Since you also seem new to the internet (perhaps you have only just been able to scrape enough money to pay for the internet ...) ill introduce you to a new concept as well.

INTERNET WARRIOR.

You talking about giving us ALL a slap. Give it a rest.

IK GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJH (there are numerous granths - i think you mean ik guru - never mind), IK MARYADA (unless the prof says we shouldnt do the amrit banis thus creating another new so called maryada) IK KHALSA (which me may not be anymore since prof reckons the banis read werent actually the ones that Guru Gobind Singh Ji read) ... hmmmmm

[WBA]

CHILDREN,

Well done your parents work and can afford the Internet for you !

I read this post with disgust. You are 'supposed' to be my brothers and sisters. I could really give you all a mighty Singh slap. No one is a kala-afgana unless the Akal Takht says so ! No one is anti-Gurmat unless the Akal Takht says so. Just because people dont agree with your personal views and intrepretation of Sikhi does not make them wrong.

Listen, reseach and debate with reason.

How many of you have actually read/ researched the Dasam Granth ?

Until then keep shut and let learned scholars do their pitch -in fact go down to these programmes and reason with them (with manners).

Gurdwarae should host programmes to raise Sikhi awareness. Well done to all the Gurdwaras and their managing committees who dont follow the weak. Look forward to the programmes.

IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA

Yes our parents do work and can afford the internet .. the same way we also work and can afford to pay our own bills. Very very lame attempt try something better next time.

If you could really give us a slap then please by all means dont hold back. On one hand your opposing our peaceful means of stopping what we percieve to be anti-gurmat parchar and on the other your saying you could slap us for our beliefs and for our stance!?!? Maybe we should forget trying to cancel the progs and just give the prof a big slap as well ... taking a leaf out of your book.

Let them do their pitch?!? They are not selling some new product that they need to pitch to us!! They are questioning the very minimum that keeps the panth together, the nitnem banis!!

The prof has been challeneged in india and other places. See the videos above! He even signed to say he would be quiet lol!!

Chal you ring the gurdwaras as well then and make sure you turn up on the day to slap all the singhs that think these programmes shouldnt happen. Since you also seem new to the internet (perhaps you have only just been able to scrape enough money to pay for the internet ...) ill introduce you to a new concept as well.

INTERNET WARRIOR.

You talking about giving us ALL a slap. Give it a rest.

IK GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJH (there are numerous granths - i think you mean ik guru - never mind), IK MARYADA (unless the prof says we shouldnt do the amrit banis thus creating another new so called maryada) IK KHALSA (which me may not be anymore since prof reckons the banis read werent actually the ones that Guru Gobind Singh Ji read) ... hmmmmm

Ak-47, the 'slap' word was used as a figure of speech (rhetorical point) to mean calm down and stop cussing like kids -which clearly you have proved in your last post !

And yes I meant IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA

So have you read the Dasam Granth oh wise learned scholar, intellect and Sikh technocrat?

Your humble, lack of Sikh knowledge and wit,

WBA

[Inder Singh]

Inder Singh Ji I am in no position to counter your research, I thank you for your speedy response. Whilst I have not read the Dasam Granth and you have, may i ask with respect:

1. Whilst many of the works are of the Gurus (in deed Guru Gobind Singh Ji), why did the Gurus themselves not place those works/ efforts into the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

2. Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the highest and only Guru of the Sikh Panth ?

3. How can the authenticity, consistency and seal of approval of Dasam Granth be taken in its current form?

4. Where specifically in the Maryada does it say we should follow the teachings of Dasam Granth?

Thank you and regards.

Here are the answers of your questions

1)Rehatnama of a contemporary of Guru Gobind singh says that singhs asked him

to include his bani in Aad Granth ji. Guru ji replied" This is my past time". So it was his humilty having not included his writings in SGGS ji. That does not mean that they are not relevant. IT is written by tenth Guru and we respect those.

2) Nobody say no sikh has denieed that. SGGS is our Guru. People like darshan and other heretics are creating a phantom out of nothing . SGGS is our Guru eternal and Dasam Granth is our second most scared scritpure. SGGS imparts spiritual knowledge and is applicable to whole humanity. Dasam Granth deals with khlsa panth as an organized religion. That is the reason anti sikh organizations are after Dsam Granth.

3) When dasam Granth was being written its copies were made. We have here two digitized copies of dasam Granth manuscripts written in 1697 and 1698.

There is mention of Dasam Banis in various rehtanams written By Bhai nanad lal ji, Daya singh ,Chaupa singh etc.

There is internal evidence in dasam Granth itself that it is written by one writer. There are dates of completion of various compositions along the place where these were written.

That is the raeson these heretics are not engaging in a dialogue with Akal takhat as they are liars and will be caught.

4)

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_..._chap_five.html

Article 1

v. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

article 6

c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.

So have you read the Dasam Granth oh wise learned scholar, intellect and Sikh technocrat?

WBA , what about you?

have you raed dasam Granth or not?

Inder Singh Ji I am in no position to counter your research, I thank you for your speedy response. Whilst I have not read the Dasam Granth and you have, may i ask with respect:

1. Whilst many of the works are of the Gurus (in deed Guru Gobind Singh Ji), why did the Gurus themselves not place those works/ efforts into the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

2. Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the highest and only Guru of the Sikh Panth ?

3. How can the authenticity, consistency and seal of approval of Dasam Granth be taken in its current form?

4. Where specifically in the Maryada does it say we should follow the teachings of Dasam Granth?

Thank you and regards.

Here are the answers of your questions

1)Rehatnama of a contemporary of Guru Gobind singh says that singhs asked him

to include his bani in Aad Granth ji. Guru ji replied" This is my past time". So it was his humilty having not included his writings in SGGS ji. That does not mean that they are not relevant. IT is written by tenth Guru and we respect those.

2) Nobody say no sikh has denieed that. SGGS is our Guru. People like darshan and other heretics are creating a phantom out of nothing . SGGS is our Guru eternal and Dasam Granth is our second most scared scritpure. SGGS imparts spiritual knowledge and is applicable to whole humanity. Dasam Granth deals with khlsa panth as an organized religion. That is the reason anti sikh organizations are after Dsam Granth.

3) When dasam Granth was being written its copies were made. We have here two digitized copies of dasam Granth manuscripts written in 1697 and 1698.

There is mention of Dasam Banis in various rehtanams written By Bhai nanad lal ji, Daya singh ,Chaupa singh etc.

There is internal evidence in dasam Granth itself that it is written by one writer. There are dates of completion of various compositions along the place where these were written.

That is the raeson these heretics are not engaging in a dialogue with Akal takhat as they are liars and will be caught.

4)

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_..._chap_five.html

Article 1

v. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

article 6

c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.