God Is Met Through Sikhi

[Bijla Singh]

The interpretation I posted is correct and pauri talks about maya and naam. One follows maya and other follows naam. Just because same words appear doesn’t mean they have the same contextual meanings. Here is the shabad you posted.

ਤੂ ਸਚਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ਅਲਖ ਸਿਰੰਦਿਆ ਜੀਉ ॥

You are the True Creator Lord, the unknowable Maker.

ਏਕੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਵਾਦ ਵਧੰਦਿਆ ਜੀਉ ॥

There is only the One Lord and Master, but there are two paths, by which conflict increases.

ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਏ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਬਾਏ ਜਨਮਿ ਮੁਆ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥

All follow these two paths, by the Hukam of the Lord's Command; the world is born, only to die.

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਬੇਲੀ ਬਿਖੁ ਲਾਦੀ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰਾ ॥

Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the mortal has no friend at all; he carries loads of sin on his head.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਆਇਆ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਵਾਰਣਹਾਰਾ ॥

By the Hukam of the Lord's Command, he comes, but he does not understand this Hukam; the Lord's Hukam is the Embellisher.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਿਞਞਾਪੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥

O Nanak, through the Shabad, the Word of the Lord and Master, the True Creator Lord is realized. ||3||

There is no need to explain it more as the translation is correct. It talks about two ways – birth and death. One way is to come to this world and other is to leave it. All human beings follow this path. There is no mention of Hinduism and Islam in the entire shabad. Not all human beings followed religion 400 years ago so the line cannot refer to religion. Fourth line says that only Naam is the true friend. Fifth line says that a human comes to this world by hukam but doesn’t realize the hukam. If the shabad was about Hinduism or Islam then you tell me whether Guru Sahib is talking about a Hindu or Muslim? Guru Sahib is only talking about one being not two because the words are singular. Otherwise it would’ve been “ਹੁਕਮੀ ਆਏ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਹਿ”. Therefore, the pankti doesn’t refer to more than one person. Last line is clear that only through the shabad one realizes that there is only one creator. If the shabad was talking about Hinduism and Islam then which shabad does it refer to? Islamic word or Hindu word? You are only looking at one line and making an argument which is not even close to the message of the shabad. Even if, for the sake of argument, I assume that the shabad talks about Hinduism and Islam, still Naam is praised as the only way to realize the truth (God). It doesn’t validate ways of Hindus or Muslims.

Vaar of Bhai Gurdas Ji doesn’t validate Hinduism and Islam. Here is the entire pauri.

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੂਨਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਮਾਣਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਦੁਲੰਭੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ॥

ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਮਜਹਬਾਂ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣ ਸਦਾਇਆ॥

ਕਿਤੜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਵਖਾਣੀਅਨਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਸੁਮਾਰਿ ਅਗਨਤ ਗਣਾਇਆ॥

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਨ ਮਾਇਆ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਹੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ॥

ਵੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਾਂ ਵਾਚਦੇ ਇਕੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਇਆ॥

ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਖੇਲੁ ਕਰਿ ਜੋਗ ਭੋਗ ਬਹੁ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਬਣਾਇਆ॥

ਸਾਧ ਅਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੬॥

In briefy, Bhai Sahib Ji says that human birth is priceless in all the joons but human divided among themselves in (four) varna system which determined their religious duties and obligations and then further divided themselves in hindus and muslims. Both (Hindus and Muslims) study their own scriptures and preach their own way to reach Waheguru as the true path. But this is all part of maya and all of the deities are under the influence of maya. Reward and punishment are determined by karmas (company of good and bad). In other words, just by being a hindu or muslim doesn’t guarantee anything. The entire pauri is far from what you are implying. Bhai Gurdas Ji doesn’t say that Waheguru created both ways and validated them but human created these paths. Gurmat is against the notion of one God but multiple ways. Gurmat supports One Waheguru and One way and that is only through Satguru. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Degh-Tegh-Fathe]

Is it not true that you have to take amrit to reach waheguroo.

Not all religions have the initiation of baptism.

I personally believe that if your a good christian in this life..follow 10 commandments,pray etc in your next like you will become sikh.

Feel free to disagree. Most Non-offensive way possible please.

eexactly youl become a sikh and then, meet akaal..so you DO have to be a sikh though?

[besoft]

I am giving below some 'Tuks' that contain ' Dui rah' that is being discussed. May be it helps. I am giving below the translations of the 'Tuks as well.The translations are not reliable at all.

ਲਿਵ ਧਾਤੁ ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਹੈ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਇ ॥ [87-12]

Loving attention to the Lord and attachment to Maya are the two separate ways; all act according to the Hukam of the Lord's Command.

1.Love of lord and falling in trap of Maya are the two paths devised by God.He Himself leads us to follow the path. He is the architect of our Karmas. In other words one ay is to be Manmukh and the other way is to be Gurmukh.

ਏਕੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਵਾਦ ਵਧੰਦਿਆ ਜੀਉ ॥ [688-13]

There is only the One Lord and Master, but there are two paths, by which conflict increases.

ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਏ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਬਾਏ ਜਨਮਿ ਮੁਆ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ [688-14]

All follow these two paths, by the Hukam of the Lord's Command; the world is born, only to die.

2.Lord is only but One and He has created Birth and death that seems complicated and painful to the mankind. But He guides us Himself through His Grace so that we get over the maya and remain engaged in His praise that leads us to the Final salvation. Those who are pre-ordained to be in Maya are lost in the world and die as all other die in this world.

3.One other reference that one finds is as follows. The two paths are to be either manmukh or Gurmukh. H;one is engrossed in Maya while the other is being led by the God to be away from Maya and be in love of Lord and naam. One can find out other qualifications of the gurmukh.

ਦੁਇ ਪੰਦੀ ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ [1032-9]

The two travelers have set out in two directions.

Conclusions

All I that is being stressed upon is that the two paths are basically those that make us manmukh or Gurmukh i.e mayavadi or 'simaran- walle' and 'truthful' that I prefer to call as 'Sachiara'.I fully endorse the views expressed by S. Bijla singh ji.One should not rely upon the translations provided by some of the sites and the 'Tuks' are to be seen by referring to full 'sabad'

[dhan_teri_sikhi]

If you do Paath of Guru Granth Sahib Ji (beginning to end) twice or three times the meanings will become very clear. Always remember the Mool Mantar, this is why it is given over and over again.

There is no Granth like Sri Guru Granth Sahib, where you can actually talk with God, get to know God and meet Him just by reading it. So Sikhi is best for me.

[sikha]

bijla singh ji:

what youre saying makes sense ji. thank you for clearing it up

[Degh-Tegh-Fathe]

You may not have to be a Sikh to merge with God but i do beleive you have to be a follower of the Gurus and their teachings.

If you follow the gurus teaching u will surely become a sikh.. Because one of the biggest hukams from guru sahib is to take amrit, and do naam abyaas which will be easier once amrit is taken.

[N30S1NGH]

I don't expect anyone to agree with this post. This is what I have learnt from mahapursh literature on sikhi, katha's and personal interaction with them.

All dharams in the world have four layers-

1. Shariat - Outer Rituals, Maryada(limit) so that mind doesnt do any kurahits.

2. Trikat - the way of worship for inner mind's purification

3. Marfat - means knowledge(shud gyan)

4. Hakikat- means realization of supreme reality.

Just look around, most of followers of dharam are stuck in the first and second level. Hardly anyone reaches 3rd or 4th level. Hence, why it doesn't appear to us other dharams have tat gyan as well. All the dharam have mystic traditions where all of them beleive in ultimate reality- naam japna, unconditonal love towards vahiguroo and know secrets of one's self body dasam dvara being nectar. For eg- mystic traditions of christianity - gnostics, they spread all over europen countries acknowledge meditation of vahiguroo, they acknowledge eastern concepts of meditation stages - naam automatically happening at the dasam dwara.

Just Sikhi have Gurmat Advait Sidhant, other dharams have also mystic traditions which beleives in same tat gyan like christianity have gnostics, Islam has sufism/shiaism, Buddhism have zen, trvide buddhism, hinduism have advait vedanta, Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka, Vallabha, Kashmiri Shaviasm, Gautamvaida.

Ultimately, one can reach akaal purkh via these mystic traditions of all the dharams, reaching hakikat state within their own dharam.

Now what advantage Sikh Dharam have over other dharam is a) its very brand new dharam which gurbani being non altered compare to other scriptures despite of many failed attempted of internal bhausaria panthis. b) As some of other mystic traditions of dharamas focus more on sargun upasana to get to ultimate goal of nirgun, Gurmat straight focuses on nirgun via shabad marg and advait prem bhagti/gyan marg c) Gurbani have very straight- parchand tat gyan not clouded by shariat rules unlike other dharam scriptures which also have tat gyan but are clouded by shariat rituals( karam kaands).

Dhur Ki Bani in Sri Akaal Ustat is big slap to karam kaandis regardless of their dharam, attaching us straight to advaita gyan- Nirgun Paratama.

All this above points we should be quite proud of, but having pride of above advantages of Gurmat over other mat is one thing but preserving this pride is another. Unfortunately, looking at the sad state of affairs of sikhs these days, it appears they are making the panth more in dubta whether its do with bhausaria panthis creating unnecessary doubts over gurbani in sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji, bhai gurdas ji varan..sometimes even rejection or to do with idiolizing their tribalism over the ultimate goal.

At this point where it stands we are failing to preserve this pride of Gurmat but instead more interested in bhandi parchar, we have made putting down other dharams without reading their mystic traditions as our panthic mahan seva. I am sure Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is waiting for us to give us sairopa on the other end.

I ll end my ranting with quote from sri sukhmani sahib ji by sri guru arjan dev ji, i m sure this quote will be Psychoanalysed by premis here because it defeats their agenda:

ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥

sarab dhharam mehi sraesatt dhharam ||

Of all religions, the best religion

13 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥

har ko naam jap niramal karam ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

13 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਮਹਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਿਰਿਆ ॥

sagal kiraaa mehi ootham kiriaa ||

Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual

13 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਲੁ ਹਿਰਿਆ ॥

saadhhasang dhuramath mal hiriaa ||

is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy.

14 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਉਦਮ ਮਹਿ ਉਦਮੁ ਭਲਾ ॥

sagal oudham mehi oudham bhalaa ||

Of all efforts, the best effort

14 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਜੀਅ ਸਦਾ ॥

har kaa naam japahu jeea sadhaa ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever.

14 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਬਾਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਨੀ ॥

sagal baanee mehi anmrith baanee ||

Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech

15 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਜਸੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਰਸਨ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥

har ko jas sun rasan bakhaanee ||

is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue.

15 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਥਾਨ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਊਤਮ ਥਾਨੁ ॥

sagal thhaan thae ouhu ootham thhaan ||

Of all places, the most sublime place,

15 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੮॥੩॥

naanak jih ghatt vasai har naam ||8||3||

O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides. ||8||3|

/Here is another one from Sri Akaal Ustat:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji goes far as saying atma doesnt have anything dharam or karam and along with other rituals..

ਜਿਮੀ ਜਮਾਨ ਕੇ ਬਿਖੈ ਸਮਸਤ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ॥

जिमी जमान के बिखै समसत एक जोति है ॥

Within all the earth and sky, there is only one Light.

ਨ ਘਾਟ ਹੈ ਨ ਬਾਢ ਹੈ ਨ ਘਾਟ ਬਾਢ ਹੋਤ ਹੈ ॥

न घाट है न बाढ है न घाट बाढ होत है ॥

Which neither decreases nor increases in any being, It never decreases or increases.

ਨ ਹਾਨ ਹੈ ਨ ਬਾਨ ਹੈ ਸਮਾਨ ਰੂਪ ਜਾਨੀਐ ॥

न हान है न बान है समान रूप जानीऐ ॥

It is without decadence and without habit, it is known to have the same form.

ਮਕੀਨ ਅਉ ਮਕਾਨ ਅਪ੍ਰਮਾਨ ਤੇਜ ਮਾਨੀਐ ॥੬॥੧੬੬॥

मकीन अउ मकान अप्रमान तेज मानीऐ ॥६॥१६६॥

In all houses and places its unlimited brilliance is acknowledged. 6.166.

ਨ ਦੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਗੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਹੈ ਨ ਪਾਤਿ ਹੈ ॥

न देह है न गेह है न जाति है न पाति है ॥

He hath no body, no home, no caste and no lineage.

ਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਿ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਤਾਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਹੈ ॥

न मंत्रि है न मित्र है न तात है न मात है ॥

He hath no minister, no friend, no father and no mother.

ਨ ਅੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਸੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਥ ਹੈ ॥

न अंग है न रंग है न संग है न साथ है ॥

He hath no limb, no colour, and hath no affection for a companion.

ਨ ਦੋਖ ਹੈ ਨ ਦਾਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਹੈ ਨ ਦੇਹ ਹੈ ॥੭॥੧੬੭॥

न दोख है न दाग है न द्वैख है न देह है ॥७॥१६७॥

He hath no blemish, no stain, no malice and no body.7.167.

ਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਯਾਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਾਉ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਕ ਹੈ ॥

न सिंघ है न सयार है न राउ है न रंक है ॥

He is neither a lion, nor a jackal, nor a king nor a poor.

ਨ ਮਾਨ ਹੈ ਨ ਮੌਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਕ ਹੈ ਨ ਸੰਕ ਹੈ ॥

न मान है न मौत है न साक है न संक है ॥

He egoless, deathless, kinless and doubtless.

ਨ ਜੱਛ ਹੈ ਨ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਹੈ ਨ ਨਰੁ ਹੈ ਨ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ॥

न ज्छ है न गंध्रब है न नरु है न नारि है ॥

He is neither a Yaksha, nor a Gandharva, nor a man nor a woman.

ਨ ਚੋਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਹ ਕੋ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਹੈ ॥੮॥੧੬੮॥

न चोर है न साह है न साह को कुमार है ॥८॥१६८॥

He is neither a thief, nor a moneylender nor a prince.8.168.

ਨ ਨੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਗੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न नेह है न गेह है न देह को बनाउ है ॥

He is without attachment, without home and without the formation of the body.

ਨ ਛਲ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਿਦ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਲ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न छल है न छिद्र है न छल को मिलाउ है ॥

He is without deceit, without blemish and without the blend of deceit.

ਨ ਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ ਕੋ ਸਰੂਪ ਹੈ ॥

न तंत्र है न मंत्र है न जंत्र को सरूप है ॥

He is neither Tantra , nor a mantra nor the form of Yantra.

ਨ ਰਾਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ॥੯॥੧੬੯॥

न राग है न रंग है न रेख है न रूप है ॥९॥१६९॥

He is without affection, without colour, without form and without lineage. 9.169.

ਨ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਕੋ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न जंत्र है न मंत्र है न तंत्र को बनाउ है ॥

He is neither a Yantra, nor a Mantra nor the formation of a Tantra.

ਨ ਛਲ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਿਦ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਾਇਆ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न छल है न छिद्र है न छाइआ को मिलाउ है ॥

He is without deceit, without blemish and without the blend of ignorance.

ਨ ਰਾਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਹੈ ॥

न राग है न रंग है न रूप है न रेख है ॥

He is without affection, without colour, without form and without line.

ਨ ਕਰਮ ਹੈ ਨ ਧਰਮ ਹੈ ਅਜਨਮ ਹੈ ਅਭੇਖ ਹੈ ॥੧੦॥੧੭੦॥

न करम है न धरम है अजनम है अभेख है ॥१०॥१७०॥

He is actionless, religionless, birthless and guiseless. 10.170

over and out !

[JustME]

[besoft]

Referring to the essence of the first post of deg-tegh ji, My frank answer, the way I have thought over this over past couple of days, is that it is the sikh's belief only and for sikhs should be rightly so. It should be so for the sikhs.

Sikhism preaches that each and every one on this earth has same divine light irrespective of sectarian biases and religious practices. Each one is part and parcel of the Supremus whom we call as 'waheguru' with love.

Let us have look at the following:

Awwal Allah Noor Upaya.....

Kudrat de sab bandey...

The same light is in everyone; and we all get our chance to see Him as per the following 'tuk'.

'Dhur Likhe sanjog'...

We are all at HIS mercy and HIS grace. Yes, be becoming Amritdhari one gets a chance to lead a disciplined life and this affords an opportunity to be a superior human being. But this is no guarantee in itself that by becoming Amritdhari one shall meet HIM. One is likely to invite a logically an illogical trap by such thinking.

Duir krmu ijnw kau quDu pwieAw qw iqnI Ksmu iDAwieAw ] (469-7, Awsw, mÚ 1)

Only those whose karma You have pre-ordained from the very beginning,[] O Lord, meditate on You.

eynw jMqw kY vis ikCu nwhI quDu vykI jgqu aupwieAw ] (469-7, Awsw, mÚ 1)

Nothing is in the power of these beings; You created the various worlds.

ieknw no qUM myil lYih ieik Awphu quDu KuAwieAw ] (469-8, Awsw, mÚ 1)

Some, You unite with Yourself, and some, You lead astray.

It is the destiny that he has written from ' Dhur' that matters. it is important to know and appreciate that we have pre-ordained destiny that can be altered only by Himself. This is applicable to sikhs and Non-sikhs as well as no one is wise and no one is a fool.[bani]Each one is guided by the order of the almighty from the bery beginning.Sikhs, of course, stands chance to be blessed with His grace if they follow the path as shown by Bani.

The Ultimate Guru is the Primal being.He is the one who, with HIS Grace, can help us to impart us spiritual wisdom through the wisdom contained in bani that may lead us to the ultimate goal.

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਦੁਖ ਭਾਗੇ ਗੁਰਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਦੀਤ ॥

The sins and sorrows of uncounted incarnations run away, when the Guru applies the healing ointment of spiritual wisdom to the eyes.

In continuation with the above 'Tuk' we have the following as well , where the reference is made to the Primal being.

ਜਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਾ ਪੂਰੀ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਈ ॥

That alone is perfect chanting, meditation, penance and devotional worship service, which is pleasing to God's Mind.

Thus ultimately it is the Lord who decides us as to when we have to meet Him. We follow the Guru's path as set out in the Granth sahib to attain this.

Guru Sahibs have stated that anyone can meet HIM.

God is the strength of His humble servants.[ang677]

I am reminded of both Mother Teresa and sant Puran singh ji[ Pingalware].

[dhan_teri_sikhi]

Besoft you need to do more research on the word "Amrit". There is Amrit Bani, Amrit Naam and Khanda da Amrit (prescribed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji).

Amrit Bani - Guru Granth Sahib Ji whose message is universal.

Amrit Naam - Gurmantar

Khanda da Amrit - Maryada

Amrit bani is for non-sikhs as well. Amrit Naam and Khanda da Amrit is only for Sikhs.