Indian Forces May Have Killed Some Hostages

[BABBAR KHALISTANI]

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/access/1...efore+his+death

The Indian commando raid launched to save the lives of Jewish and Israeli hostages at Mumbai's Chabad House may have inadvertently ended the lives of one or more of the hostages, the head of a six-man ZAKA team in the terror- stricken Indian city told The Jerusalem Post on Sunday.

Speaking by phone from Mumbai, Haim Weingarten, the head of the Mumbai ZAKA team, said, "Based on what I saw, [although] I can't identify the type of bullets in the bodies [of the victims], I don't think the terrorists killed all the hostages, to put it gently."

Members of the ZAKA team found the bodies of six Jewish hostages at the Chabad House minutes after a two-day raid by Indian commandos ended on Saturday. However, Indian security forces ordered them out of the building before they could remove the bodies, fearing they would step on grenades scattered throughout the facility. The security forces allowed them to return only hours later

http://www.panthic.org/news/129/ARTICLE/4576/2008-12-05.html

Musings on last week's bloody 'drama' played out in Mumbai, India

(Op/Ed)

Friday 5th of December 2008

Dr. Amarjit Singh, Khalistan Affairs Center

Is the Indian Army planning to lance across the Indo-Pak border, under it’s new ‘Cold-start’military doctrine, to hit Muridke, in Pakistan, where the banned and demonized Lashkar-a-Taoba, a pro-Kashmiri militant organization used to have it’s madrassas and headquarters?

Will the Pakistan Army retaliate to any Indian ‘Cold-start’provocation by firing short-range missiles into the heart of Amritsar?

Jersusalam Post newspaper report claims Indian commandos killed Jewish hostages, held captive in the Cultural & Out-reach center in Mumbai, last week

Washington D.C. Wednesday - The 26 November, 2008, murder of the chief of the MumbaiAnti Terrorist Squad, one Hemant Karkare - an excellent Police officer of Inspector General rank, who was investigating leads to a number of terrorist incidents, carried out in 2008 all over India by the right wing Neo-Nazi Hindutva crowd (just before state and general election are due to be held) may also hold the key to the riddle as to who was behind the 3-days mass killing by gunmen last week in India’s premier commercial city of Mumbai in which 173 were killed and nearly three hundred were injured. Who gains by Karkare’s murder? Hindutva thugs. They were feeling the heat of the investigation into their role in recent terror bombings which had killed innocent members of Christian and Muslim minorities in different parts of India. With Karkare’s murder all the files on Hindutva thuggish and bomb-making activities will be pigeon-holed!

Reports from sources in India also indicate that days before last week’s carnage in Mumbai, by fanatical gunmen of unknown nationalities, the Indian Army General Headquarters (GHQ) had cancelled leave, for some reason, (prescience?) of some IndianArmy units. Personnel from these units have been stealthily moving into positions nearAjnala, Patti, Ramdas and other cantonments, in Indian-occupied Punjab, Khalistan, opposite Muridke, located in Pakistan, where the demonized Lashkar-a-Taiba is known to have its headquarters. Maybe the Indian army high command wants to test this new, much trumpeted,Army doctrine of ‘Cold Start’ under which selected Indian troops, riding in helicopters, can lance across the Indo-Pakistan border nearby and hit Lashkar-a-Taiba and other infrastructure which action would rattle and destabilize the enemy – an already destabilized Pakistan. That seems to be the intent of the IndianArmy’s ‘Cold-start doctrine’and may be another clue to the master minds of last week’s Mumbai carnage in which nearly two hundred people were killed and many more hundreds were injured. One should not forget that Indian operatives are quite capable of staging a mass murder of innocents, as they did in Chitthisinghpura, in Indian occupied Kashmir, when 35 innocent Sikhs were gunned down, by the Indian Army, in the year 2000, to make a spectacular news flash to tarnish the Kashmiri freedom movement synchronized with President Clinton’s state visit to India. There have been a number of other staged incidents where innocent people have been murdered by Indian Intelligence agencies to create a ‘situation’.

The above mentioned new Indian Army ‘Cold-Start’ doctrine, it’s authors feel, does away with the need for marching thousands of troops from distant cantonments to the border as was the case during ‘Operation Parakram,’ the massive troop build-up that took place after the phony Parliament House attack drama, orchestrated by Indian intelligence agencies, in Dec. 2001. Under this new ‘Cold-start’ doctrine Indian troops can be (LINK) massed on the Indo-Pak border, for purpose of coercive diplomacy, in stealth, (without much fanfare and without long and very visible Army truck convoys or troop trains or route marches) to link up with troops, helicopters, supplies already positioned there in underground tunnels, instead of the slow and steady accumulation of firepower, supplies and men that used to take place earlier.

Military observers are of the opinion that this ‘Cold-start’ Indian Army doctrine, dreamed up by some swollen-headed, dim-witted, armchair ‘Napoleon’ in India, may be effective against a lightly armed opponent, like the Kurds in Northern Iraq, or the Nagas in Nagaland, but is suicidal against an enemy armed with missiles. Every one knows that Pakistan has, over and above it’s long range nuclear missiles, a number of short and medium range conventional missiles which can easily fly across the Pakistan-India border in less than two minutes, if Islamabad is provoked by an armed ‘Cold-start’ helicopter intrusion into it’s territory by the Indian army. Also life would become very miserable, under a ‘shower’ of retaliatory Pakistan missiles for the denizens of any border city, like Amritsar – an easy target - for example. Readers in the Sikh Homeland ought to lobby the Sikh Prime minister of India, Manmohan Singh, against any miscalculation, any ‘Cold-start’ adventure, by the Indian Armed forces in Muridke or some other Pakistani target. Such action could endanger, as a consequence, Sikh holy shrines in Indian occupied Punjab in general and Amritsar in particular and make life miserable for the 23 million unhappy Sikhs living in India, captive behind a barbed wire ‘Berlin Wall’ on the Indo-Pakistan border, since August 1947, when a bankrupt Imperial Britain quit South Asia in haste after World War II.

Meanwhile the riddle about the identity of the gunmen, who carried out the murderous assault which paralyzed Mumbai for three days last week, is still unresolved although a senior and usually well informed Pioneer newspaper columnist, Dina Nath Mishra, (LINK) writing in the newspaper of 30 November, 2008, claims in his column (headlined, ‘New chapter of war Is anyone listening?’) that the ‘terrorists’ were from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan which composition would indicates Al Qaida finger prints and not local elements.

In another related development, a calculated effort last week by New Delhi’s crafty rulers (to use the TV images of Indian army helicopters trying to rescue six Jewish hostages from a 5-story Mumbai building) meant to muster support of the powerful worldwide Jewish media, in it’s ‘war of words’ with Pakistan, has boomeranged after the prestigious widely-read Jerusalam Post newspaper published, (on the front page of it’s Sunday edition, on 30 Nov. 2008) a report, by Yaakov Katz, headlined, ‘Indian forces may have killed some hostages.’

The Jerusalam Post, one of the world’s great newspaper, (LINK) published the article which appeared in the Jerusalam Post on Friday, quoted Israeli officials criticizing the way India handled the rescue operation of Jewish hostages in Mumbai. One official who criticized India was Israel’s Defense Minister Ehud Barak, a former Prime minister and Army Chief, who was quoted as saying that, ‘Indian forces were not on par with elite Israeli units.” Speaking by phone from Mumbai, Haim Weingarten, the head of the Israeli ZAKA team, which had rushed to India said that, “Based on what I saw, [although] I can’t identify the type of bullets in the bodies [of the victims], I don’t think the terrorists killed all the hostages, to put it gently.” The report quoted Haim Weingarten as saying that all six Jewish and Israeli hostages found dead in the Chabad House were killed by either gunshot wounds or shrapnel from grenade blasts, or both, adding that he didn’t know who threw or fired the grenades that wounded the hostages.

The Jerusalam Post quoted another source as saying that he was puzzled by a number of aspects of the response by Indian security forces to the Chabad House siege. “I was surprised by the fact that the raid was launched in broad daylight at 7:30 in the morning. It was a daylight assault with helicopters, which I found puzzling,” the source said.

The future of 23 million Sikh captive in the Indian map lies in an independent buffer state of Khalistan, stretching from the Indo-Pak border in the West to the Jumna river on the East. We have no place in India.

[HSD*^]

well they're the black cats responsible for the problems in the punjab in the 80's and are used to killing civilians for fun. bunch of dogs with no honour the lot of them...

[AK47 JATHA LION]

They looked very ill-equipped. Never had no protective head gear. 1 man was just firing his gun at random through the hotel window . A ex SAS man was commenting on it and ridiculing it on sky news as live images were coming through. They looked very un-proffessional. I wouldnt be suprised if they did shoot some of the hostages themselves in friendly fire stray bullets.

[Guest PunjabSingh]

We were watching the seige of Nariman house where Israelis were held.After the commandos were dropped by helicopter we heard a very loud bomb blast on the third floor .The media reported that the terrorists had thrown a hand grenade but the blast was very loud .

Later on the same Indian channel reported that the blast was done from outside by the army using a grenade launcher.So if the Israelis were killed by the grenade from outside then it will not be any surprising news.

Besides this,it is a fact that a large number of people were killed due to asphyxiation due to smoke and fire .

So the hostages were killed due to asphyxiation,smoke,fire,bullets of terrorists,bullets of commandos,grenades by terrorists or commandos.

I think when things will cool down Israel will protest and ask for an international enquiry into the killings of Israelis in the Chabad house(Nariman house) and the role of the commandos.

[Raju]

They looked very ill-equipped. Never had no protective head gear. 1 man was just firing his gun at random through the hotel window . A ex SAS man was commenting on it and ridiculing it on sky news as live images were coming through. They looked very un-proffessional. I wouldnt be suprised if they did shoot some of the hostages themselves in friendly fire stray bullets.

the terrorists tortured and killed all hostages very early in the game. Yes, the NSG was very under-equipped.

Manmohan Singh's agenda seems to be to defang Indian military capability. Probably he is taking out vengeance for blue star. Suffer my fellow Indians .. suffer.

[HSD*^]

They looked very ill-equipped. Never had no protective head gear. 1 man was just firing his gun at random through the hotel window . A ex SAS man was commenting on it and ridiculing it on sky news as live images were coming through. They looked very un-proffessional. I wouldnt be suprised if they did shoot some of the hostages themselves in friendly fire stray bullets.

the terrorists tortured and killed all hostages very early in the game. Yes, the NSG was very under-equipped.

Manmohan Singh's agenda seems to be to defang Indian military capability. Probably he is taking out vengeance for blue star. Suffer my fellow Indians .. suffer.

right who let the RSS lover on this forum?

[lsingh]

They looked very ill-equipped. Never had no protective head gear. 1 man was just firing his gun at random through the hotel window . A ex SAS man was commenting on it and ridiculing it on sky news as live images were coming through. They looked very un-proffessional. I wouldnt be suprised if they did shoot some of the hostages themselves in friendly fire stray bullets.

the terrorists tortured and killed all hostages very early in the game. Yes, the NSG was very under-equipped.

Manmohan Singh's agenda seems to be to defang Indian military capability. Probably he is taking out vengeance for blue star. Suffer my fellow Indians .. suffer.

Most observers have said this operation was a disater, badly organised, the soldiers used no surprise, they seemed to be randomly firing at buildings. The Israelis are very angry and said they could have done a better job. This is the same NSG that carried out mass killings of Sikhs in the Punjab and does not allow Sikh to serve in it.

Operation Black Thunder

From SikhiWiki

Summary

Operation Black Thunder I and II are two relatively unknown events but are very important. While the Indian government claims it is regretful for invading Amritsar in 1984, they did the very same thing on May 12, 1988, although not on the same scale. The indian government was distraught that "militants" had restored the Akal Takht and assumed control of Amritsar again. This was too much for the government and just as they had 4 years before they laid siege to the foundation of Sikhism.

However, in this operation, though far fewer people died, the effect on Sikhs was the same because even as the Indian government was apologising for the earlier attack it was once again having the audacity to attack the Golden Temple. The operation ended when the Sikhs surrendered in fear of a repeat of Operation Bluestar.

For pictures of this Operation, please visit: http://www.netphotograph.com/viewset.php?id=34

The Operation

Planning for Operation Black Thunder was initiated in early 1988 at Manesar at Aravali hills, 40kms from Delhi by National Security Guards (NSG) under patronage of union Home Minister, rather Ministry of Internal Security. A large model of Sri Darbar Sahib complex was created; practice was carried out at a high school at Tauru and in a college at Nuh in Haryana. Both schools had structures that resembled the parikarma of Sri Darbar Sahib. Weekend visits to Sri Darbar Sahib became a regular feature of the Special Action Group (SAG) of the NSG. They also started growing their hair for operational reasons.

State-sponsored terrorist groups began massive murderous assaults from December 1987 liquidating families of militants and their sympathisers. Their homes were put to fire. The units were placed under the overall charge of Izhar Alam, Senior Superintendent of Police, Amritsar. Ribeiro had certain reservations and conveniently went on leave to Bombay. The police made regular announcements of ‘recoveries’ of Russian made RPG rockets and Russian surface to air missiles, earlier imported by RAW (India external intelligence agency) from Kabul, from all over Punjab. This served as a prelude to the pursuit of new tougher policy.

Free speech was brutally repressed by the Indian government as the Union Home Ministry gave instructions to media-persons and journalists at Amritsar to behave or face the consequences. Kuldip Singh Arora, Amritsar correspondent of United News of India (UNI) was picked up on April 13, 1988 under the ridiculous National Security Act for meeting militants inside the Golden Temple, a serious charge under the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities Act (TADA). About 100 other journalists had conducted such interviews and so Amritsar’s Working Journalists Association clearly interpreted this as a signal to fall in line and not to write anything that displeased the government.

After the 25th April the security forces established themselves on several rooftop pickets including the one facing the Clock Tower wherefrom General Sunderji had directed Operation Bluestar. The security forces had in the last couple of months kept the militants inside the complex under observation to prevent their escape.

The time for Operation Black Thunder arrived after the debate in Parliament on Punjab was over in the first week of May.

Despite countless provocations, there was no firing from inside the complex. To prepare the nation, the state-sponsored terrorists fired on Gadi Lohars, a nomad tribe celebrating a marriage at Panipat in Haryana on May 8th killing 13 people. That served the dual purpose of also keeping Haryana Chief Minister Devi Lal in check. The following day DIG(CRPF) Sarabdeep Singh Virk chose to take notorious Santokh Singh Kala, a former militant who was now leading a state-sponsored terrorist outfit along with him atop the buildings around the complex. Suffice to say Kala knew exactly how to provoke action between the religious militants and the CRPF and set the ball rolling on behalf of the CRPF.

Rajiv Gandhi tabled eight of eleven meetings regarding Operation Black Thunder. Home Minister Buta Singh and Minister of State for Home P. Chidambaram were in support. After the green light was given Air Force airlifted Special Action Group (SAG) of 1000 commandos of National Security Guards (NSG) and their equipment to Amritsar on May 11 and 12. Meanwhile an exchange of gunfire had gone on intermittently by the opposing forces. 800 pilgrims had been evacuated on May 10 but recitation of gurbani had stopped.

Jasvir Singh Rode was at Punjabi University, Patiala on May 9 but rushed back to Amritsar on hearing of the incidents of shooting. On May 11 the local administration bluffed Rode to take him the following day at 8am to enter the Temple from Santokhsar Gurdwara to restore rituals. Precisely at this time security forces started firing. Rode, Savinder Singh, Jaswant Singh, Kashmira Singh, Bhai Mokham Singh and Gurdev Singh Koanke, former Acting Jathedar of Akal Takht alongside 24 others were prevented from proceeding further. After protests, Rode decided to move ahead despite the firing. Deputy Commissioner Sarabjit Singh Inspector General (Border) Chaman Lal and Senior Superintendent Suresh Arora were present.

Koanke told the police. "You men are liars. It is you who are shooting, not the militants." He was struck with a CRPF rifle butt. Rode and his men were arrested for violating the curfew. The NSG had prepared itself and begun Operation Black Thunder.

Half a dozen militants tried to slip away under cover of darkness when they came under fire--only two men managed to get away. This was followed by a long intense gunfire exchange between militants and security forces. Two Shamsher (Jaguar) jets flew near the temple at the time as the security forces took over Guru Ram Das Serai and ‘neutralised’ two Bungas.

The killing of militants by security forces outside the temple was supplemented with selective killing inside by the infiltrators. For example when of all the people were inside, Jagir Singh - a senior person who was the spokesman of the Panthic Committee came out of room 14 to fetch a pail of water from the holy tank he was shot in the back of the head, obviously from inside the building. Mortally wounded his body fell to the pavement near the sarovar.

On May 15 in response to an appeal by Inspector General (Border) Chaman Lal and Deputy Commissioner Sarabjit Singh to surrender, 151 persons including 17 women and children came out with their hands and weapons in the air. These included Surjit Singh Penta who had, according to official documents, swallowed cyanide.

However others believe he was killed by the police. 46 people, mostly infiltrators then spent 2 or 3 days desecrating the Main Temple of Sri Darbar Sahib with their excreta & later surrendered to K.P.S. Gill on May 18.

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