Does God incarnate?

[Deep Singh]

Cyber Sangat jee,

This moorakh is once again here to ask for a question. So, does God incarnate? Does Sikhism believe in Avtaarhood as in Hinduism?

Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee, 1136, Guru Arjan Sahib says:

Bhairao, Fifth Mehl, First House:

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

Setting aside all other days, it is said that the Lord was born on the eighth lunar day. ||1||

Deluded and confused by doubt, the mortal practices falsehood.

The Lord is beyond birth and death. ||1||Pause||

You prepare sweet treats and feed them to your stone god.

God is not born, and He does not die, you foolish, faithless cynic! ||2||

You sing lullabyes to your stone god - this is the source of all your mistakes.

Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3||

He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation.

The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||4||1||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...D=4063&Format=2

Now that is the thinking that i have had for the past years...as long as i have know Sikhism. But in the past weeks - months, i have heard fellow Sikhs saying on this forum that also Sants are Nirankar and they also quote Gurbani. I respect Saints....i do not doubt that they are spiritually uplifted beings. I also say that they are one with Waheguru. After all the goal of man is to achieve Oneness with

Waheguru.

But i get confused when people start saying that Saints come to world as Waheguru's incarnations or avtaars. I thought that they were also simple humans who through enormous Naam Simran had killed the evils that existed in them and now fully devoted there lives for the betterment of society and upliftment of humanity through Naam. that's it. but when people start saying we should regard them as incarnation of God....and that would in practical terms mean worshiping them. there i fall out...i don't get it. BrahmGianis or Saints are no doubt One with Waheguru...but shouldn't we worship Waheguru through Naam Simran and no one else?

Please enlighten me,

and

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna.

[DhadiMania]

i think so. he sent down avtaars in all the other jugs. and they were his incarnations, i think so. but i dont no much on sikhi.

[Guest mehtab]

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?Sour...D=G&pageno=1136

so muKu jlau ijqu khih Twkuru jonI ]3]

so mukh jalo jith kehehi t(h)aakur jonee ||3||

Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3||

jnim n mrY n AwvY n jwie ]

janam n marai n aavai n jaae ||

He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation.

nwnk kw pRBu rihE smwie ]4]1]

naanak kaa prabh rehiou samaae ||4||1||

The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||4||1||

[Deep Singh]

Rochak Bhaji, didn't you read my post? you have quoted the same Shabad... :umm:

[Guest mehtab]

sorry...just woke up a while back

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I think the question was "Does God send down people to spread his word?"

Guru Gobind Singh himself is absolute proof that he does (As written in Dasam Granth == Waheguru asked Guru Gobind Singh to come and create the Khalsa).

But of course, you have to be careful. I mean there are lots and lots of fake "sants" out there who claim to be one with God... and of course being mooraks ourselves we have no way of finding out if they are or not.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Deep Singh]

Brother Khalsa4Ever jee,

no my question was not whether Waheguru ji send prophets or gurus to spread Naam. that is clear. Guru Sahiban were sent by Waheguru ji.

but i think i need to be clear. Does Waheguru ji "himself step down" in a human body to give Naam? Or is it always through Guru Sahiban or Prophets before that time? The idea that God himself enters this world is called incarnation, and is a part of Hinduism. Also some say that Jesus, as Christians regard him as God was the incarnation of God himself on earth.

Now Rochak bhaji explained to (not here) that Waheguru is everywhere and present always...so everyone is Waheguru's Roop. but that is not avtaar. the meaning is perhaps that the whole existence and non-existence is a part of Waheguru. however my question is a little more "teological" that is more concrete. that does Waheguru enter the world as a human?

I know that some Sikhs do mean that some Sants were Akal Purakh themselves. And that i don't understand...because of my moorakhta and lack of spiritual knowledge.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Does God incarnate?:

Ajooni - The Almighty does not enter the cycle of birth and death - Mool Mantar.

So what about this Avtaar stuff (cause Avtaar means incarnate of the Almighty)?:

jal thara(n)g jio jalehi samaaeiaa ||

As the waves of water merge again with the water,

thio jothee sa(n)g joth milaaeiaa ||

so does my light merge again into the Light.

Within each human is present this light. In most people, this beauty is covered up by the dirt of the Ego and the Five Demons (Kaam - Lust, Krodh - Anger, Lobh - greed, Moh - attachment, Hankaar - Price). Water in dirt cannot be separated - its all dirt. When Gurbani and Sewa are embodied in an individual, the dirt slowly vanishes and leaves behind pure water (or in the case of the Guru Sahiban, pure water itself was sent to the Earth). That water has the same properties of the Almighty. However, it is but a drop of water and the Almighty is the Infinite Ocean. While that drop of water itself has all of the properties of the Almighty's Light, it is not all of the light. So the Guru Sahiban were that drop, but not the Infinite Ocean.

To say that the Gurus were an Avtaar of the Almighty implies that the whole Infinite Ocean incarnated itself into the Guru Sahiban, which is incorrect according the Gurbani mentioned.

My humble views. Please correct as necessary.

[Deep Singh]

ms514 bhaji,

you know i love your answars...May Waheguru jee bless you!

i will keep this one in my memory, thanks!

[Guest mehtab]

ms514 Posted on Apr 25 2004, 07:48 PM

Sat Sri Akal:

Does God incarnate?:

Ajooni - The Almighty does not enter the cycle of birth and death - Mool Mantar.

So what about this Avtaar stuff (cause Avtaar means incarnate of the Almighty)?:

jal thara(n)g jio jalehi samaaeiaa ||

As the waves of water merge again with the water,

thio jothee sa(n)g joth milaaeiaa ||

so does my light merge again into the Light.

Within each human is present this light. In most people, this beauty is covered up by the dirt of the Ego and the Five Demons (Kaam - Lust, Krodh - Anger, Lobh - greed, Moh - attachment, Hankaar - Price). Water in dirt cannot be separated - its all dirt. When Gurbani and Sewa are embodied in an individual, the dirt slowly vanishes and leaves behind pure water (or in the case of the Guru Sahiban, pure water itself was sent to the Earth). That water has the same properties of the Almighty. However, it is but a drop of water and the Almighty is the Infinite Ocean. While that drop of water itself has all of the properties of the Almighty's Light, it is not all of the light. So the Guru Sahiban were that drop, but not the Infinite Ocean.

To say that the Gurus were an Avtaar of the Almighty implies that the whole Infinite Ocean incarnated itself into the Guru Sahiban, which is incorrect according the Gurbani mentioned.

My humble views. Please correct as necessary. :umm: :D