Who Is Allowed?

[Traveller]

Sorry fordcapri, but were you directing the following at me? As you can read, I was merely asking a question without saying my viewpoint...sorry if you miscomprehended that. Hence, its not in question whether I go to a gurdwara where there are non-amritdharis, was just asking- I may not even be sikh for a start.

I wasnt asking "are there muslims doing kirtan?"

i was asking a hypothetical question to spark debate about the situation-

which was basically : can a muslim perform kirtan in the gurdwara?- after all his heart and mind are in the right place if he truely connects with the message...

So tell me, my sikh friends, can a non amritdhari perform kirtan on stage at a Gurdwara?

Many of my friends have given much mixed feedback on what they've been told is "acceptable" in their local gurdwara.

Also would a muslim who may be transfixed by the potency and beauty of some shabads be allowed to perform on stage- his/her mind and heart are afterall in the right place- or is that not to be respected or tolerated?

Theres many non amritdhari performing kirtan in Gurdwara, just like they do sevar in Lungar halls and are on commitees, whats the matter dont you go that often that you havent sceen them ??

As for Muslims the only ones ive sceen/heard doing kirtan are Nursrat Fateh Ali Khan,i guess theres more.

A hypocrit is a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion.

If one is not prepared to follow the hukam, and take Amrit and keep rehat then they cannot lead the reading of Gurbani or preform keertan in the sangat.

What next... Can non amritdharies be in the panj pyare.

Non Amritdharie and Panj Pyare are not possible...so why ask ??

Non Amritdharies do sevar in lungar halls would u not accept food from them ?? Ive sceen them loads of times "char jee" char jee"

nothing wrong with that they asking for?..... nothing.

I think Harmeet Singh made a good point about where does it end...but arent the objectives of the panj pyare totally differnent to who does kirtan?

The panj pyare should try to their best to be the khalsa they portray....however someone singing kirtan is sure portraying someone singing kirtan- to the listener, its the words that should make the difference?

[Guest fordcapri]

Sorry fordcapri, but were you directing the following at me? As you can read, I was merely asking a question without saying my viewpoint...sorry if you miscomprehended that. Hence, its not in question whether I go to a gurdwara where there are non-amritdharis, was just asking- I may not even be sikh for a start.

I wasnt asking "are there muslims doing kirtan?"

i was asking a hypothetical question to spark debate about the situation-

which was basically : can a muslim perform kirtan in the gurdwara?- after all his heart and mind are in the right place if he truely connects with the message...

So tell me, my sikh friends, can a non amritdhari perform kirtan on stage at a Gurdwara?

Many of my friends have given much mixed feedback on what they've been told is "acceptable" in their local gurdwara.

Also would a muslim who may be transfixed by the potency and beauty of some shabads be allowed to perform on stage- his/her mind and heart are afterall in the right place- or is that not to be respected or tolerated?

Theres many non amritdhari performing kirtan in Gurdwara, just like they do sevar in Lungar halls and are on commitees, whats the matter dont you go that often that you havent sceen them ??

As for Muslims the only ones ive sceen/heard doing kirtan are Nursrat Fateh Ali Khan,i guess theres more.

A hypocrit is a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion.

If one is not prepared to follow the hukam, and take Amrit and keep rehat then they cannot lead the reading of Gurbani or preform keertan in the sangat.

What next... Can non amritdharies be in the panj pyare.

Non Amritdharie and Panj Pyare are not possible...so why ask ??

Non Amritdharies do sevar in lungar halls would u not accept food from them ?? Ive sceen them loads of times "char jee" char jee"

nothing wrong with that they asking for?..... nothing.

I think Harmeet Singh made a good point about where does it end...but arent the objectives of the panj pyare totally differnent to who does kirtan?

The panj pyare should try to their best to be the khalsa they portray....however someone singing kirtan is sure portraying someone singing kirtan- to the listener, its the words that should make the difference?

I would say from first reading yor topic that you have covertly put across your view point, it may mot be your view and just a question, i will get back to you 2mrw.

[Traveller]

A hypocrit is a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion.

If one is not prepared to follow the hukam, and take Amrit and keep rehat then they cannot lead the reading of Gurbani or preform keertan in the sangat.

What next... Can non amritdharies be in the panj pyare.

In this view point what roles other than reading from the guru granth sahib and keertan are restricted to amritdharis?

Is there anyone with any kind of rules that dictates this?

I guess if there are rules then I'm sure my mates will respect them and when they take amrit they'll be bursting to get on that stage! However, if they are allowed to in the mean time, then that would be great too, but theres so many viewpoints!! I also think they're scared because of gursikhs threatening to remove them from the stage if they decide to do keertan.

Can a non-amrtidhari play waaja, if an amritdhari does the singing or can that be taken as hypocritical also?

[KhalsaRaj 89]

simple reply: yes you should be able to...apart from on big kirtan programmes such as smagams and rainsabhais.

im not a amritdarhi but with Guru kirpa im keeping my rehit and hope again with kirpa, to take amrit soon,

and im allowed to do kirtan,

and whoever sed AKJ is a sect it aint its a JATHA,(kirtanis)

that wuld mean that Taksal, buddadhal, are sects as well, according to your opinion.

[Traveller]

I would say from first reading yor topic that you have covertlt put yoour across your view point, it may mot be your view and just a question, i will get back to you 2mrw.

ermm...not sure I get that but yeah I'm not putting forward a view point I'm just trying to establish the consensus. I hope you and others can contribute to this so we have a definitive view. If posters have any quotes which can be referred to in regards to any rules about who can do kirtan then that would be really helpful :D

[Traveller]

simple reply: yes you should be able to...apart from on big kirtan programmes such as smagams and rainsabhais.

im not a amritdarhi but with Guru kirpa im keeping my rehit and hope again with kirpa, to take amrit soon,

and im allowed to do kirtan,

Thanks for your simple answer, but I'm afraid that although you are allowed to do such, I know gursikhs who would want to force you off stage. as for AKJ and the rest, it's all besides the subject of kirtan so people can and have discussed such issues elsewhere.

Well done with the kirtan though- I think its such an incredible gift to have been given!

[Singhson]

Well said Khalsa123

[Kaljug Singh]

An article on Bhai Ghulam Mohammed Chand Rababi on Sikhiwiki:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bhai_Gh..._Mohammed_Chand

Some of his kirtan can be found here:

http://www.keertan.org/andromeda.php?q=f&a...LIVE+Recordings

Bhai Lall Ji (another descendant of Bhai Mardana) on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type...query=bhai+lall

Regards,

- K.

[Seeking_Sikhi]

I read this post and went into a deep thought .. this is what i was thinking...

Mere Guru ne ik nirala panth sajiya si .. char dishawa te char hi buhe rakhe si .. jo sab waste khule ne .. jo mere Guru de dar te aaya .. usnu ik wakhri pehchan milli ... usnu Guru ne apna Sikh banaya.. sab nu iko hi roop te samanta bakshi.. hor iko hi rah dikhayi .. panj payarean kolo amrit shak ke apne warga maan ditta..

hun kujh log Guru Ji nu kehnde ne ki .."assi tera ditta roop nahi rakhna .. saanu oh changa nahi lagda.. par assi tenu chadna wi nahi .. he mere Waheguru .. me tera naam japna hai par me apne hi dhang naal japanga .. Guruji tuhada ditta roop rakhna bada hi kathin hai, saanu sharam aandi hai,asi modern nahi lagde, ya fir saanu darr lagda hai.."

Hey mere Waheguru! jado eh log apne kesha da katal karde hun ... sikhi di pehchan nu mita dende hun .. te fir eh log Gurudware wich aa ke kirtan karan de bahane ki sikhi nu mittan da prachar nahi karde?? aan waliya nasla enha manmukha nu dekh ki sabak lengiya ?? eh log aap ji de nayare panth diya neeha nu hilana chahnde ne .. me te mere warge hor panthe de dassa da man bahut dukhda hai !!

Kirpa karo .. ehna nu changi mat baksho, ehna de andro haume nu khatam kar deyo.. te sidhe rah paayo...taaki eh log wakayi aapne aap nu aap ji nu samapit kar sakan... me aaap ji to ehi benti karda ha!!

[Traveller]

can anyone translate please? sorry