Amritvella

[KEERPA]

If everything is forgiven then why was Guru HarRai Sahhibs son banned from the panth, same thing with Guru Arjan Dev Jis brother.

I second that and am waitiing for the reply :lol:

As the hippys used to say in the 60's "Legalize Love man" hahaha Sometimes people go "too far" and are swept away by their manmat.

[humkire]

If everything is forgiven then why was Guru HarRai Sahhibs son banned from the panth, same thing with Guru Arjan Dev Jis brother.

I second that and am waitiing for the reply :lol:

As the hippys used to say in the 60's "Legalize Love man" hahaha Sometimes people go "too far" and are swept away by their manmat.

Veerjee that doesnt mean Gurujee went around hating this 2 persons .Gurujee is always loving and if these people had truly repented ,begged forgiveness and realised their folly they would have been forgiven. Hope, and, the chance to change, is with you till the final moment of your life. Thats our job/responsibility as Gurujee's children to do parchar, parchar ,parchar. Read my long post i posted after the last you posted before you posted this post.

As to what someone just posted about ego, ask any true chardikela Sikhs you know and they will tell you battles with ego are never won in a day , and bad habits can take a while to die . The good news is once you take to Gurujee's sharan and He holds your hand then as Gurbani says '' belharee gur apne deoharee sad vaar ,jinh manas te devteh kieh ,kert na lagi vaar''. As you get involved in the Game of Love with Gurujee, slowly but surely, an angel is carved out of you , and you will become a living monument to God's glory and Holy Power.

[KEERPA]

Veerjee that doesnt mean Gurujee went around hating this 2 persons

Not one of us said GuruJi "hated" anyone, but excommunicated them, and that was to his very own son.

Gurujee is always loving and if these people had truly repented ,begged forgiveness and realised their folly they would have been forgiven.

That is "IF" veerji "IF". but do people that overlook Amritvela do they "truly" know how to prove to Guru Sahib that they beg for forgiveness or do they do a short quick prayer and continue the nonsense ?????? We can go around trying to beg people to actually follow Gurmat but only if God wills them to do it will it manifest. We can tell campfire stories and do parchar all day and night but if someone is ignorant then thats what they are. We have hundreds of thousands of true Sikhs that have been killed due to the fact that they loved Guru Sahib and loved the rehat but now a daze people dont understand Ardas and the kurbani that Sikhs went thru to allow us to know Sikhi and then we have people that could care less, as long as theyre able to do there manmat Sikhi they could care less about being rehatvaan etc.........

Yes for some it takes time but some people are way past due and have become rotten inside and out, can we help them????(not by candy-coating Sikhi for them) How long does it take for a normal maya filled person to become a SIkh??? (ask my wife and she will tell you it can be in the bat of an eyelid) She went from manmat moorukhi to Amritdhari GurSikh and even holds me to the point, anyone that knows me knows how quick it took me to become a "listener of what Guru actually prescribes us to do" we dont need this waiting list and then postpone that when the time comes" we start now today and forever, no holding back, no letting go, only having the responibility to be truthful and follow the rehat given to us by the Gurus who we revere. Too many in the community try to make manmat the "norm" and then youth follow their manmat also, we need to get off the "well they dont" bandwagon and actually wake up and be a Sikh. Too many think "Ill do that stuff later" "Ill grow old and after forming more than half my life full of bad habits Ill change then" etc and that where they are wrong, being a Sikh while young is the best way to instill Sikhi within them and playing the "well Ill do it later/ overtime Ill be a Sikh" card. Im the guy that pours a bucket of water over someones head after they say they will get up in the morning and when the time comes they get the bucket poured on them, others just tell them its ok just take forever to develop a want to finally listen to GuruJi. Dont listen to me, listen to Guru Sahib.

Lots in history have been Gurus rivala enemy(Guru didnt have enemies but they were Guru Sahibs enemy) and after seeing Guru Sahib they bowed at his feet. Lets say Jahangir and hunting with Guru Hragobind Sahib, he actually killed Guru Sahibs dad and after Guru Sahib showed him that I dont have enemies as being Nirbhau/Nirvair he never again went against Guru Saib and this was from a nonSikh completely. So people that claim to be Sikh should have no excuses of why they "cant get up for Amritvela"

[humkire]

veer keerpa jee

No one has any reason to candycoat Sikhism ,any more sweeter than it already is, than the sweetest thing that ever was, will or shall be. I dont think anyone here is trying to candy coat Sikhi. We all are aware that Sikhi involves sacrifices ,qurbani , and surrender.Likewise, no one on this thread is propounding that manmat should be made the norm ,far from it. Also this thread is not about finding excuses for not doing amritvela .

You are very lucky that you and your wife had the strength,wisdom ,insight ,and willpower to transform yourself instantly from one to another. And you are still being transformed every passing moment more and more into the likeness of where Gurujee wants you to be, never ever forget that, as that will help you stay humble and ever dependent on Gurujee's grace.

But be practical and sensitive to the fact that other people struggle with what you dont as much as you struggle with what other people dont. Gurbani says ''bhulan andar sabh ko ,abhol gur kartar''. Other people on here might have transformed into pukka rahitvaan Sikhs much faster and earlier than you, hold to stricter rehat than yours, and wake up much longer at amritvela than you do, but they may be humble souls realising all 5 fingers aint the same and be willing to show understanding to those who lag behind and offer them a helping hand out of the softness ,'helemi' ,kindness and Godly compassion in their hearts.

I grew up amongst a whole generation of amritdharees . We were all one big family . But we all had our own individual weakneses and points of vulnerability. We dint look down but supported each other to help each other out.

It is for Gurujee as He is the big boss to write off someone who appears rotten n condemn them to hell . Its our duty to show kindness n patience without candy coating Sikhi, and persist in parchar to whoever is within our radar, as you aint God and just dont know wen someone's magic moment can arrive unexpectedly.

In Malaysia, in the late 80s, a gursikh called Lakhbeer Singh became the gyanee of one of Malaysia's main massive Gurudwara called the PJ Gurudwara . This guy in the late 70s fitted the description of everything you have said '' manmat/postponing/looking for excuses/rotten out n in to the core'' ,and more than i dare to mention here. One day in his intoxicated/drugged state somehow he went to a gurudwara and as he bowed down ,he heard a sound which no one around him could hear . It was Gurujee's Voice telling him ''Lakhbeer Singh , your moment with Reality has arrived , no more shall you stray.'' As he woke from metha tek he had become a transformed person. He didnt transform into an amritvela getting up Sikh within 24 hours ,unlike you and your wife , but over many years he found his way to slowly become an amritdharee rehitvaan Singh blessed with the gift of keertan ,gurbani veakhea and etc and by the late 80s he had been apointed a gyanee in one of Malaysia's main Gurudwaras situated in the most intellectual ,elitist and richest corner of Malaysia ,i.e PJ .

You are very welcome to condemn those who drag their feet and have a slow journey to be slackers looking for excuses , and to wash your hands off ,all those you consider hopeless rotten to the core guys, and exclude them from your parchar. My life lived practically however tells me that as long as there is life ,there is hope. You just do not know how and when somebody out there is going to snap out of their inertia and go many miles beyond you before you could wink your eye. Gurujee's Workings are unpredictable as only He knows the history of every soul.

Our focus ,instead of speculating on who is going to do wot when , or change when ,has to be, to stay humble in Gurujee's presence and through our kehnee ,and kernee to be charismatic Gursikhs drawing others to our Gursikhi way of life.

Before i end , i'll tell you another true story. In Malaysia during the 40s,50s,60s , in a certain gurudwara , there was a gyanee who was, what you would call ''totally slack/backsliding'', in terms of amritvela/rehat etc, and even his son(army boy) would come back to the gyanee's house( within the gurudwara compound )totally drunk on his days off. However around the early 70s , the gyanee got his son married to a certain (Sikh) girl. This newly married girl brought with her, past janams good karma and as Gurbani says''purab karam anker jabh pargteh ,tab milio purukh rask bairagi''. A few days after her marriage just as this girl on a quiet day was sweeping the veranda of the gurudwara , out of the blue, had darshan of Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Whoa! that immediately snapped her up. Within a few years she transformed from a shy wife of a drunken soldier into a hard core, totally inspired,dastar tying, Khalsa woman warrior. Seeing her transformation , her old slacking father in law who by now had retired, suddenly awoke from the abbys of his wasted back sliding life riddled with excuses , and arose like a pheonix from the ashes to take amrit again together with his wife and son . That whole family became and still is one huge very inspired family of Gursikhs in that country like an unstoppable army for good well connected to all the leading sikh preachers in that region and more .

I can go on and on and on and on telling you story after story of people whose life's have taught me that all we need to focus on is untiring parchar shooting out like bows from an arrow never knowing where n wen its going to hit whom next.

As amritvela starts tomorow, who knows which person totally confident in his/her rehat is going to end up oversleeping and which condemned soul living in total ugly guilt is going to receive a loving kiss from Gurujee and be woken up crying in pain to do their nitnem and chant God's name .

I await the mysterious dewy night , i surely do,

O darling Guru , tonight is the turn for your mercy to turn to who.

I know i falter and i know , you know too

Everyone looks at my low life and says boo

I look at awe at all those who love you

And cry ,have mercy on me too ,me too

Gurbani says''karam heen dhan kareh benentee, kadh Nanak aveh varee,

sabh sohagan maneh relia ek devoh raat muraree.''

May Gurujee bless us all with amritvela,and may we all find the strength and passion to get up as early as possible to spend loads of time during Amritvela with Gurujee , and help those who struggle to do so .

[KEERPA]

two reasons why Im posting right now:

1) People are reading what we are saying and maybe will light there candle from the conversation we both are saying.

2) Im having a program on August 22nd at Bradshaw Gurdwara California, and I purposely am targetting the kids that dont know Sikhi, that dont even know about Amritvela etc. I told the president everyone is welcome but I want the kids that really need this program to come, I know all the GurSikh kids know an abundance of Sikhi but I want the struggling kids to come and learn what they are missing out on. They learn what needs to be learned no more no less, the rest they can seek to find etc.

Good there is no more points (in my opinion that needs to be further stressed as both our posts surely cover a broad spectrum of this issue etc)

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

Veerjee that doesnt mean Gurujee went around hating this 2 persons

Not one of us said GuruJi "hated" anyone, but excommunicated them, and that was to his very own son.

Gurujee is always loving and if these people had truly repented ,begged forgiveness and realised their folly they would have been forgiven.

That is "IF" veerji "IF". but do people that overlook Amritvela do they "truly" know how to prove to Guru Sahib that they beg for forgiveness or do they do a short quick prayer and continue the nonsense ?????? We can go around trying to beg people to actually follow Gurmat but only if God wills them to do it will it manifest. We can tell campfire stories and do parchar all day and night but if someone is ignorant then thats what they are. We have hundreds of thousands of true Sikhs that have been killed due to the fact that they loved Guru Sahib and loved the rehat but now a daze people dont understand Ardas and the kurbani that Sikhs went thru to allow us to know Sikhi and then we have people that could care less, as long as theyre able to do there manmat Sikhi they could care less about being rehatvaan etc.........

Yes for some it takes time but some people are way past due and have become rotten inside and out, can we help them????(not by candy-coating Sikhi for them) How long does it take for a normal maya filled person to become a SIkh??? (ask my wife and she will tell you it can be in the bat of an eyelid) She went from manmat moorukhi to Amritdhari GurSikh and even holds me to the point, anyone that knows me knows how quick it took me to become a "listener of what Guru actually prescribes us to do" we dont need this waiting list and then postpone that when the time comes" we start now today and forever, no holding back, no letting go, only having the responibility to be truthful and follow the rehat given to us by the Gurus who we revere. Too many in the community try to make manmat the "norm" and then youth follow their manmat also, we need to get off the "well they dont" bandwagon and actually wake up and be a Sikh. Too many think "Ill do that stuff later" "Ill grow old and after forming more than half my life full of bad habits Ill change then" etc and that where they are wrong, being a Sikh while young is the best way to instill Sikhi within them and playing the "well Ill do it later/ overtime Ill be a Sikh" card. Im the guy that pours a bucket of water over someones head after they say they will get up in the morning and when the time comes they get the bucket poured on them, others just tell them its ok just take forever to develop a want to finally listen to GuruJi. Dont listen to me, listen to Guru Sahib.

Lots in history have been Gurus rivala enemy(Guru didnt have enemies but they were Guru Sahibs enemy) and after seeing Guru Sahib they bowed at his feet. Lets say Jahangir and hunting with Guru Hragobind Sahib, he actually killed Guru Sahibs dad and after Guru Sahib showed him that I dont have enemies as being Nirbhau/Nirvair he never again went against Guru Saib and this was from a nonSikh completely. So people that claim to be Sikh should have no excuses of why they "cant get up for Amritvela"

"Im the guy that pours a bucket of water over someones head after they say they will get up in the morning and when the time comes they get the bucket poured on them, others just tell them its ok just take forever to develop a want to finally listen to GuruJi. Dont listen to me, listen to Guru Sahib"

Lol Veer Ji, I have a similar mentality and now none of my friends want to stay the night at my place haha. I strongly agree with you that people of the community are making manmat the norms these days which is unfortunate. But I think in terms of that workshop next week Amrit Vela should lightly be discussed since there will be many monay Im guessing. main focus should be on simran and seva. Amrit Vela is hard for many Gursikhs we cant expect monay to understand it fully as this is a difficult think to achieve which does come over time due to Guru Jis Kirpa. No doubt you should mention it but main emphasis should be on simran and seva like the way it was done in Turlock. I really like how you mentioned Seva in the last workshop I hope you continue to mention some of the same things in Sac.

[harjit nanua]

wjkk wjkf,

Firstly, Bhenji Humkiren, I know these guys you are talking about and all are excellent men. And the best thing is, alkl have great qualities. Its like a huge reservoir of goodness or like a supermarket, where i get virtues out of each and everyone. No one has any defects.

Speaking about resovoir, this is one. From this post. I learne a lot. And below is a summry.

All are right about ego. Listening to guru ji is a must. MUST. That is a gurmukh (Guru's Mukh= listening everything that comes out from the mouth of the guru.). Everything. And if we listen to our mind, then it is ego. I mean, we sell our mind to the guru. As Bhagat Ravidas has said," Bahut janam bichuray the madhoo., eh janam tumharey likhey". I dedicate this life to you.

Next, forgiveness. Generally, i believe in pure forgiveness. The thing about guru har rai's son was that he never asked for any forgiveness. Neither did prithi chand. All were consumed by their ego. Actually, as gurbanee says, Hum nahee changee, bura nahee koi. Which means I cant call anyone bad, even them. Also, sabh meh jot, jot hai soi (everyone contains Him). So, how can i call one bad. Also, in asa-di-war= Manda kisey na akihei. If i cant call anyone bad, i cant call Prithi Chand bad also right. And this led me to the conclusion, that they are not bad, they are deluded by ego. But, if the ego goes off, and one repents, the isnt he a sikh anymore.? So, forgiveness, even after sins and sins. I mean the biggest sin is to talk bad about Guru NAnak's darbar (like bhai balwand and satta) or saying, You are no more my Guru and We are no more your sikhs (like the 40 saved ones). But still, Guruji forgave them, because they repented.

Third, amritvella is important. Very important. Just like any other time. Why is it better? Because, medically, that is tje time when our brain waves are least active. We concentrate best at that time. Timing for banee i still dont find a connection. There used to be this person who used to listen to asa di war at night, just because he loved the wordings. One person says asa-di-war is only meant for the morning. And the answer back was," Is banee limited to certain time?".

this is my 2 cents worth.

wjkk wjkf

[humkire]

ahaa this is a Malaysia tigers vs USA krugers match hahaaaaa . and now i award 5 goals to each side so its a win win hahaaaa .

[harjit nanua]

ahaa this is a Malaysia tigers vs USA krugers match hahaaaaa . and now i award 5 goals to each side so its a win win hahaaaa .

Bhanji, Kudos to you...You really know how difuse situations.

Thank you thank you...

[humkire]

ahaa this is a Malaysia tigers vs USA krugers match hahaaaaa . and now i award 5 goals to each side so its a win win hahaaaa .

Bhanji, Kudos to you...You really know how difuse situations.

Thank you thank you...

haha i do try but it doesnt succeed too often . khalsa blood can b sooo hot that i get pushed 2 the side n trampled over and they carry on fighting cyber n real hahaaa . Once in a gurudwara a fight broke out between 2 committees ,the past nd the present ones ,and I unfortunately happened to be sitting right in the centre point between em two and omggg i nearly got killed as these 2 forces of grumpy old men started attacking each other over my head with their kirpans over the issue of which is a better committee. I had to wriggle out as quickly as possible to safety hahaaaaa . Now wen i go to gurudwara,i have to look around very very carefully with a hawk's eye to make sure im in a safe place hahaaaaa.

I must remind u somehow of a bhenjee but im a bhaji hahaaaaaaa . i spent yesterday musing as to what made u think im a bhenjee hahaaa ,well i wish i was, as woman power rules today hahaaaa .Even the Dalai Lama said in an interview with Michael Palin, that he wanted to be reincarnated in his nxt life as a very beautiful woman as that will help him be very popular and attract many followers hahaaaaaa .

Harjit nanua jee, Sukhdev Singh-dashmesh jetha got himself into biiig truble for sum silly stuff he was doing with healing nd sum holy water ,nd it was all over the net ,and its even sumwhere on this forum too . Has Jaswinder Kaur his wife sorted him out yet hahaaaa. and you still haven't told me which keertan jetha you are in and why no samelan gets telecast live on the net . There is sooo much beautiful parchar nd keertan in Malaysia with quality tabla players n keertanias like baldev kaur,harvinder singh , the titiwangsa gyanee ,khalsajee, and so so many others from the different SNSM, niketan ,etc etc etc but nothing ever seeps n leaks out onto the net except a lit dribble here n there I can never understand why .arrrgggh ,now thats frustrating. I think you should write 2 articles to inspire us all . 1 about your sikhi journey . The other about present state of sikhi/sikhs in malaysia .