Sant In Sikhism

[K. SINGH DEEP]

I am not concerned with arthh done by any body, whosoever he may be, but concerned

with :-

"ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਪੜਤਾ ਟੀਕਾ ਸਹਿਤ ॥

Mukh tae parrataa tteekaa sehit ||

You read the scriptures, and the commentaries,

ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਪੂਰਨ ਰਹਤ ॥

Hiradai raam nehee pooran rehat ||

but the Perfect Lord does not dwell in your heart.

ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਵੈ ॥

Oupadaes karae kar lok drirraavai ||

You preach to others to have faith,

ਅਪਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥੧॥

Apanaa kehiaa aape na kamaavai ||1||

but you do not practice what you preach. ||1||

But this never means that I oppose to kathha being done by the ever great

Legend Gursikhs,mentioned here above .

Though this shabad is addressed to Pandit who misinterprets the Vedas

in his own way for his personal benifit, but it equaly implies on us the so called

Sikhs like me (also) who interpret-ate or misinterpret-ate Gurbani in thier own way

only in order to "apna ullu sidha karo."

Including myself , everybody needs to think deeply that in which direction we

are going instead of following our true "Guru SRI GURU GRANTH SAHEB JI". I dont claim

that I am 100% correct, rather I may not be even 1% correct, but the way we are abusing

each other is definitely not correct. For us Gurbani tells:-

"Hoe ikater milohu mere bhaaee, Dubidha duur karoho liv laae.

Har naame ke hovo jorhi ,Gurmukh bethho safa vichhae."

But we are compelling each other to go to any extent to protect our false ego, and that too

behind the shelter of names of Great Gursikhs.

If we do not under stand the spirit and idea expressed by any of our brother,it never means

that we should start using irritative language or writing something objectionable which may not be

in accordance with the SIKH principles.

Bhul chuk khima Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

[guruvah]

I am not concerned with arthh done by any body, whosoever he may be, but concerned

with :-

"ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਪੜਤਾ ਟੀਕਾ ਸਹਿਤ ॥

Mukh tae parrataa tteekaa sehit ||

You read the scriptures, and the commentaries,

ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਪੂਰਨ ਰਹਤ ॥

Hiradai raam nehee pooran rehat ||

but the Perfect Lord does not dwell in your heart.

ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਵੈ ॥

Oupadaes karae kar lok drirraavai ||

You preach to others to have faith,

ਅਪਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥੧॥

Apanaa kehiaa aape na kamaavai ||1||

but you do not practice what you preach. ||1||

(this is very true about online cyber scholars driven by their hankar)

But this never means that I oppose to kathha being done by the ever great

Legend Gursikhs,mentioned here above .

Though this shabad is addressed to Pandit who misinterprets the Vedas

in his own way for his personal benifit, but it equaly implies on us the so called

Sikhs like me (also) who interpret-ate or misinterpret-ate Gurbani in thier own way

only in order to "apna ullu sidha karo."

Including myself , everybody needs to think deeply that in which direction we

are going instead of following our true "Guru SRI GURU GRANTH SAHEB JI". I dont claim

that I am 100% correct, rather I may not be even 1% correct, but the way we are abusing

each other is definitely not correct. For us Gurbani tells:-

"Hoe ikater milohu mere bhaaee, Dubidha duur karoho liv laae.

Har naame ke hovo jorhi ,Gurmukh bethho safa vichhae."

But we are compelling each other to go to any extent to protect our false ego, and that too

behind the shelter of names of Great Gursikhs.

If we do not under stand the spirit and idea expressed by any of our brother,it never means

that we should start using irritative language or writing something objectionable which may not be

in accordance with the SIKH principles.

Bhul chuk khima Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

WOW!

that was one hell of a post...

WOW!!!

[SunSingh]

Perhaps you should clarify what you mean then?

[guruvah]

what a coincidence the same was also discussed on another forum:

Sant in Gurbani

hardcore deravadis, the link is not suggested for you! (jokin :lol: )

[SunSingh]

Use of "Sant" for specific Bhagats

Many Gursikhs claim that the word "Sant" is never used for any specific individual in Gurbani. To refute their claims, presented below are some pankitis where the word "Sant" has been used for Bhagat Prahalad jee and Bhagat Kabir jee:

ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥3॥

Vaheguru kept the honour of Sant Prahlaad and killed Harnakash with his nails.

In the above pankiti, Siri Guru jee has called Bhagat Prahlaad jee a Sant.

ਕਿਆ ਅਪਰਾਧੁ ਸੰਤ ਹੈ ਕੀਨ੍‍ਾ ॥ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਪੋਟ ਕੁੰਚਰ ਕਉ ਦੀਨ੍‍ਾ ॥

ਕੁੰਚਰੁ ਪੋਟ ਲੈ ਲੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੈ ॥ ਬੂਝੀ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੈ ॥3॥

Bhagat Kabir jee referring to himself is saying, “What crime has Sant committed that he has been thrown before the mad elephant to be trampled and crushed. The elephant instead of trampling and crushing the Sant (Bhagat Kabir jee) started bowing his head hefore him but the blind (Stupid) Kazi (Muslim Religious Judge) still did not understand (realize that what he was doing was wrong).

In the above pankiti, Bhagat Kabir jee's intentions should not be misunderstood when he calls himself a Sant. He does not mean to call himself a Sant in an egoistic manner but Bhagat jee is simply and with surprise asking, "What crime has a (harmless) Sant done that he has been thrown in front of an elephant to be trampled?" Here Bhagat jee is not referring to him as Sant to show that he is a big Bhagat or something but Sant here should be understood as meaning "Faqir".

Conclusion

The word "Sant" or "Santan" in Gurbani has been used for Vaheguru, Guru Sahib and Gurmukh Bhagats. To say that this word should not be used for Gursikhs as it is reserved only for Guru Sahib does not seem to be a factual statement. We have seen in the examples above that in Gurbani, Bhagat Prahalaad jee and Bhagat Kabir jee have been referred to as Sants. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee though never allowed anyone to use this adjective for him but he himself referred to many Gursikhs as Sants. Please read his book Ranglay Sajjan for more details. Bhai Sahib Vir Singh jee when writing about Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee referred to him as Sant Randhir Singh jee. Who can mind calling Sant Attar Singh jee Mastuanewale as Sant? If he cannot be called a Sant, then who can be?

Having said that, it is not a good idea to cheapen this word by calling every Tom or Harry a Sant. Perhaps, this title like "Bhai Sahib" should be bestowed by Siri Akal Takhat Sahib on selected Gurmukhs.

Baani is Agam Agaadh Bodh. May Guru Sahib forgive our mistakes while interpreting Gurbani.

Daas,

Kulbir Singh

It seems that Kulbir Singh ji from that forum is also taking a stand against people twisting Gurbani.

[K. SINGH DEEP]

again, k. singh deep ji, just answer this one question. so when listening to katha by sant gurbachan singh ji khalsa, sant kartar singh ji, sant jarnail singh ji, or even gaini thakur singh ji, when they explain the meaning of sant as a person being of a certain avastha, or when gurbani says to do seva of the sants, they translate it as doing seva of an individual of high avastha, that means they are doing wrong arths of gurbani??

My dear, Iam not against a person specific but against against "DERAVAD"

and self made "SANTVAD" AS IS TOLD BY DASMESH PATSHAH JI:-

"Gohr ,MARHI MATHH bhool na maane"

And Dearaas are Modern Mathh now a days but many ( not all ) of so called SANTS

befool the public and under the banner of name of past Legend Gursikhs and under

CHHATTAR CHHYAA of SRI GRU GRANTHH SAHEB JI they are busy in collecting money

and piling up thier Bank balances, enjoying AC residences,AC luxury cars, and doing

no KIRAT where as GURU NANAK DEV JI told :-

KIRAT KARO VAND CHHAKO NAAM JAPO

The first updesh i.e. KIRAT KARO has been left by most of the the so called Sants

saying that we do the kirat of Naam, where as Naam has been told at last and

after "KIRAT KARO " and "VAND CHHAKO" but our so called Sants collect (some times

foricibly also) money from their followers and pile up their Bank balances and enjoy

physical life. Only a few follow the second and third updesh i.e." Vand chhako"

and "Naam Japo".

And great ones who follwo all the three things can be counted on fingers as Gurbani

tells "Hen VIRLE naahi ghane phail phakkarh sansar" where as money collecters , on

whom people faith blindly, are countless . We ,instead of encouraging them ,should expose

them by awkening ourselves and public in general.And that is the spirit behind this ongoing

debate.

Bhul chuk khima , WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[guruvah]

It seems that Kulbir Singh ji from that forum is also taking a stand against people twisting Gurbani.

its very interesting to note that you have only quoted what you agree with.

read the post properly.....

The word Sant has been used in many meanings in Gurbani. It is used for at least the following meanings in Gurbani:

1. Vaheguru

2. Guru Sahib - Singular

3. Guru Sahib - Plural

4. Bhagat Jan, Gursikh - Singular

5. Bhagats, Gursikhs - Plural

^^^This is what Sant Samajis/dervadis will never agree on.

end of the day...

whats the use of arguing with Sant Samajis/deravadis who are hell bent :rolleyes: on pushing their own mat.

[Guest shastr]

my dear k singh ji deep ji, dont try that smart talk. those names are past jathedaars of taksaal, expect giani ji, but the other 3 are the past jathedaars of taksaal, which is not deravaad or anything else you wanna call it, they all say in katha that sant is used for person with high avastha. and yet here you are preaching you own mat. which is not a good thing. on one hand u say sant is not used for any person in gurbani, and yet your saying u dont oppose the katha done legend gursikhs. have you ever even heard their katha? they all say sant is used for people of high avastha. so how do u not oppose it? the truth is that you do oppose it, but who in their right mind is going to say that the past jathedaars of taksaal didnt know wat they were talking about? so you try to make it seem like u know wat ur talking about. but its ok.

and to guruvah ji, yea, brahmgianis of the panth push their own mat, but us internet brahmgianis who barely even do nitnem in the morning, we know what we are talking about right. the people who did nitnem for 22 hours a day, who did 151 jap ji sahibs everyday, they pushed their own mat, but we know wat we are talking about huh?

you can say watever you want on the internet, nobody will stop you.

but when it comes to updesh to the panth and updesh to the sangat, when it comes to kurbani, we are nowhere to be found. when their were tanks in the parkarma, none of us internet giani's who have 27 years of gurbani study, none of us came to the rescue. when bullets were flying, none of us stood up, and it was those "deravadis" who "pushed their own mat" that stood up and took those bullets in their chest.

[SunSingh]

It seems that Kulbir Singh ji from that forum is also taking a stand against people twisting Gurbani.

its very interesting to note that you have only quoted what you agree with.

read the post properly.....

The word Sant has been used in many meanings in Gurbani. It is used for at least the following meanings in Gurbani:

1. Vaheguru

2. Guru Sahib - Singular

3. Guru Sahib - Plural

4. Bhagat Jan, Gursikh - Singular

5. Bhagats, Gursikhs - Plural

^^^This is what Sant Samajis/dervadis will never agree on.

end of the day...

whats the use of arguing with Sant Samajis/deravadis who are hell bent :rolleyes: on pushing their own mat.

I read the whole article, and quoted the part that answered your own request for Gurbani pankatees backing up the word sant being used for one of the Bhagats.

Your attempt to label people's beliefs in a manner which ridicules them (but does not disprove them using Gurbani) is a nice example of an ad hominem argument- the kinds of arguments carried out by those who cannot defeat other's arguments so they attack the person instead.