Dasam Granth?

[Inder Singh]

You make no sense, I'll follow my Guru's instruction here; "MOORKHAN NAAL NA LUJHIAI". Thanks in advance for understanding.

Yes, he is my brother; all Sikhs are my brothers and sisters.

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj !

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

When you do not have ability to understand it, typical statement is you do not make sense.

That akirtghan is no more part of panth.So follow him.What are you doing here.

You say waheguru ji ki khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

This is not written in Guru Granth sahib.

[BhForce]

Guptsingh84, Although Bloom has a unique way of making his point, it's not too hard to discern what he's saying.

In just a sentence or two it is: Why does "Y" adopt forms and customs external to Guru Granth Sahib while simultaneously maintaining the doctrine of "Keval Granth"?

That's the reason why Bloom is asking why "Y" wears kakkars, says fateh, and so on.

For people who are just reading along and not participating in the thread, the reason the doctrine of "Keval Granth" (only Granth) is objectionalble is that no where in Guru Granth Sahib does it say that the Gurgaddi is with Guru Granth Sahib.

That's why, if you get people to reject everything outside of Guru Granth Sahib, it's quite easy to get them to also reject Guru Granth Sahib. Which, of course, the Spokesman has done.

The thread with UKGuptKaur on Dasam Granth hinged on this very issue.

To the end, she could not demonstrate that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had said to follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

As Bloom said above, it is a verbal command.

[GuptSingh84]

You make no sense, I'll follow my Guru's instruction here; "MOORKHAN NAAL NA LUJHIAI". Thanks in advance for understanding.

Yes, he is my brother; all Sikhs are my brothers and sisters.

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj !

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

When you do not have ability to understand it, typical statement is you do not make sense.

That akirtghan is no more part of panth.So follow him.What are you doing here.

You say waheguru ji ki khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

This is not written in Guru Granth sahib.

You are no one to say who is a part of Panth and who not. I only follow my Guru.

Why do you say the fateg? It is not written in Dasam Granth either.

Guptsingh84, Although Bloom has a unique way of making his point, it's not too hard to discern what he's saying.

In just a sentence or two it is: Why does "Y" adopt forms and customs external to Guru Granth Sahib while simultaneously maintaining the doctrine of "Keval Granth"?

That's the reason why Bloom is asking why "Y" wears kakkars, says fateh, and so on.

For people who are just reading along and not participating in the thread, the reason the doctrine of "Keval Granth" (only Granth) is objectionalble is that no where in Guru Granth Sahib does it say that the Gurgaddi is with Guru Granth Sahib.

That's why, if you get people to reject everything outside of Guru Granth Sahib, it's quite easy to get them to also reject Guru Granth Sahib. Which, of course, the Spokesman has done.

The thread with UKGuptKaur on Dasam Granth hinged on this very issue.

http://www.sikhsanga...__fromsearch__1

To the end, she could not demonstrate that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had said to follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

As Bloom said above, it is a verbal command.

Thanks for your input. But didn't Guru Ji say; Pothi Parmeshwar Ka Thaan?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Mehtab Singh]

In my opinion, the root cause of all this suspicion of Maharaj's Bani is that they consider Maharaj as an ordinary human being. I am not pinpointing to anyone on this forum, but people like Inder Ghagga even go on to say that (may Gurujee forgive me for stating his words) Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj may have been pressured to consume halaal meat when He went to Arabia, and that Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj may have fainted on the thathee thavee. Those who don't even have that much iota of faith in Maharaj, I don't know what to say about them. They are worse than non-Sikhs who hate Sikhs.

Once again, this is a reminder that Sikhsangat.com is 100% PRO-Dasam Granth. Any posts that insult/defame Kalgidhar Patshah's Bani will NOT be tolerated.

[GuptSingh84]

Inder Singh Ghagga has his mistakes. He is very foolish to say that Guru Arjan Dev Ji fainted on the tati tavi. He can't even prove it. Harjinder Singh Dilgeer goes even as far to say that Guru Ji DID NOT sit on a tati tavi.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Mehtab Singh]

Yes, and we should not care what these people say. My best answer to them would be "The man you call daddy is not your real father". If they start crying, I will ask for proof, just like they keep asking us for proof about everything.

[Inder Singh]

Why do you say the fateg? It is not written in Dasam Granth either.

Fateh is there at the start of every composition of Dasam Granth sahib.Read it before making statements.

Thanks for your input. But didn't Guru Ji say; Pothi Parmeshwar Ka Thaan?

Writing of Gurus whether in SGGs or not is pothi

Once again, this is a reminder that Sikhsangat.com is 100% PRO-Dasam Granth. Any posts that insult/defame Kalgidhar Patshah's Bani will NOT be tolerated.

Very well said. This is the appropriate reply for these unsikh characters.They are weeds and need to be removed from panth.

They write singh with their name.Is it found in SGGS ji.

Not only these kala afghana chelas write bad about dasam granth they also say

1) Their only Guru is Guru Nanak dev ji. They disown other nine Gurus

2) Thye do not believe that Guru Arjan dev ji compiled SGGS ji.

May i ask with what face they say that they are believers in SGGS Ji.

Read below

http://www.panthic.org/articles/5169

SELF-STYLED KHALISTANI HERETIC CONTINUES TO SPEW KALA-AFGHANI VENOM

PANTHIC.ORG

Published on Novembe

r 6, 2009

TORONTO, CANADA - The self-styled Khalistani and Kala-Afghani protégé, Harjinder Singh Dilgeer, has again become the center of controversy due to his anti-Panthic tirades on various Punjabi radio talk-shows, in which he has repeatedly attacked the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the legitimacy of Nitnem and Amrit Sanchar Banis.

Dilgeer was invited to Canada to speak at a 1984 related function organized at the 'Sikh Lehar Center" by the pro-Kala Afghani heretic lobby in Toronto. Before the weekend function, Dilgeer went on various Punjabi radio talk-show programs in which he ridiculed the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and spewed venomous statements against the sacred Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Dilgeer addressing other heretics at the Kala-Afghani Sikh Lehr Center

Following are some extracts of Dilgeer's interview on Radio Hamsafar which aired on October, 26th of 2009 :

Dilgeer attempts to belittle the authority of Sri Akal Takht's HukamNamas, and alleges that anyone who obeys the order of Sri Akal Takht's HukamNamas is breaking away from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

(click to listen)

Note: Contrary to his current stand, Dilgeer in his 'Sikh Reference Book' (1997) states that "The Hukamnama of Akal Takht Sahib is final and binding for each and every Sikh. None dare defy it."

Dilgeer states that 1402 pages of Sri Dasam Granth is 'gand-mand' (filthy trash).

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer is stating that banis such as ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ (which is part of the Sikh Ardaas), Shashtarnaamala, Zafarnama, and ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ such as ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਹਾਲ ਮੁਰੀਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਹਿਣਾ, ਰੇ ਮਨ ਐਸੋ ਕਰ ਸੰਨਿਆਸਾ , etc is all filthy-trash or anti-Gurmat content. Dilgeer also seems to makes a distinction between Swaiyya and Akal Ustat, and does not realize that the Swaiyya are actually part of the Akal Ustat.

Dilgeer claims that 90% of Dasam Granth is against the ideals in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the rest of the 10% is anti-Gurmat. He then ridicules the bani of BachitarNatak.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer in his 'Sikh Reference Book' (1997) states that "Bachitar Natak- is the name of the poetic drama written by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ."

Now Dilgeer claims that Dasam Granth is not Guru Rachna, and only a translation.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer in his 'Sikh Reference Book' (1997) clearly states that Dasam Granth was a rachna of Guru Gobind Singh, and even noting the dates when some of the contents were completed.

Dilgeer misquotes and misrepresents the Charritars 21,22, and 23 of Roop/Anoop Koer . He states that those who believe that Dasam Granth is Guru Sahib's Bani are ਪਾਪੀ (sinners) and ਮੁਜ਼ਰਮ (criminals).

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer, like Ragi Darshan Singh is intentionally misrepresenting the charittars of Roop Koer or Noop Koer. This charriters are not about Guru Gobind Singh Ji as these heretics claim, this is explained in detail by Sridar Kapur Singh IAS (National Professor of Sikhism) in his article (ਕਿੱਸਾ ਰੂਪ ਕੌਰ ਦਾ) :

http://www.panthic.org/articles/3873

Dilgeer claims that no scholar or leader has read Dasam Granth, if they have and state it is Guru Sahib's rachna, then they are a ਮੁਜ਼ਰਮ or ਦੋਖੀ of the Guru.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeers seems be implying all Gursikhs who believed in Sri Dasam Granth in the past were ਮੁਜ਼ਰਮ or ਦੋਖੀ, this includes GurSikhs such as Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Kavi Santokh Singh Ji, Giani Gian Singh Ji, Giani Ditt Singh Ji, Akali Kaur Singh Ji, Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Prof. Sahib Singh Ji, Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhinderan, Prof. Piara Singh Padam, and countless other scholars and Shaheeds who lived and died believing in Sri Dasam Bani.

Dilgeer suggests that Sri Akal Takht HukamNamas are anti-Gurmat and should be ignored, and not followed. He openly states that all Sikhs should defy any order from Sri Akal Takht, and gives Spokesman editor as an example.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer proudly boasts that his 'friend' Joginder Sahwney has defied the HukamNamas of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and others should do the same. In a recent revelation, Surinder Kaur Nihal, an ex-admirer of the Spokesman editor, went public to disclose the warped views of the ex-communicated newspaper heretic. According to her public statements, Sahwney stated that:

'ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੱਥੀਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਗੱਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਉਹ ਅੱਗੇ ਗੱਦੀ ਚਲਾਉਣੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਨ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ।'

"Guru Nanak did not bestow Gurgaddi to anyone, because He did not want to pass on the gaddi to anyone after him."

'ਮੈਂ ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੋਂ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਾਕੀ ਨੌਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ (ਭਾਵ ਬਾਕੀ ਨੌ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ) ।'

"Besides Baba Nanak, I do not believe in the rest of the nine (Gurus Sahibans)"

ਸ੍ਰ:ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਨੌ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਵੱਡਾ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਮਾਰਦਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਉਲਟਾ ਸਵਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਕੋਲ ਨੌਆਂ ਗੁਰੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਦਾ ਕੀ ਸਬੂਤ ਹੈ ।

"Creating a distinction between Guru Nanak Dev Sahib and the nine Guru Sahibans, Joginder Singh asked, "What proof do you have about the existence of the other nine Gurus?"

Ex-communicated heretic Joginder Sawhney

The first statements by Sahwney were made at the bhog ceremony of Dilgeer's mother at Sector 46 Gurdwara in Chandigarh on May 17th, 2009. The fact that not only did Dilgeer allow Sahwney to make such offending remarks at his mother's bhog, and never clarified or apologized for them proves he must also agree with Sahwney's twisted mindset. He continues to work for Sahwney and publishes his works in the daily column of the Spokesman.

Below are extracts of the public statements made by Surinder Kaur of Mohali:

Rangla Punjab Radio Interview:

Dilgeer raises doubts about the events of the 1699 Amrit-Sanchar Ceremony. Claims that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never took Pahul (Amrit) from the Panj Piyaray. Alleges if Guru Gobind Singh Ji took Amrit he would then have been a 'un-AmritDhari. He also questions the authenticity of verses of the Panthic Parvanat Ardas. States the source of ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਿਮਰਿਐ ਘਰ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਆਵੈ ਧਾਇ ॥ ਸਭ ਥਾਈਂ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੧॥ ' in the Sikh Ardaas tuks are unknown.

(click to listen)

Note: It is common knowledge that the tuks written by Sri Dasam Patshah in his rachna ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ ॥. To doubt it, is a direct attack on the foundations of Sikhi.

The above examples of blasphemy should leave no doubt that l ike loyal protégés, both Dilgeer and the Ragi are parroting the same ideology of the heretic Gurbakhsh Kala-Afghana, who was ex-communicated from the Sikh Panth in 2003.

In the footsteps of Kala-Afghana, both the Ragi and Dilgeer have openly questioned the validity of the sacred Banis of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Nitnem Banis. While several Gurmattas and HukamaNamas have been issued from Sri Akal Takht Sahib strictly forbidding such criticism, this "shararteee ansar" (mischievous elements) as the Takht refers to them, continue to rake up the controversy on behest of others.

Like Ragi, Dilgeer also considered himself a Khalistani back in the 1980, and 1990s. He claims to have been part of the "inner circle" of the All India Sikh Students Federation, and the early days of the Dal Khalsa. Interestingly, both Ragi and Dilgeer, promoted the Bani of Sri Dasam Granth throughout those turbulent decades. Countless CDs and cassettes of the Ragi were released in which he recited hymns from Bachittar Natak, Krishanavtar, and Ramavtar. Now that era is over, they are looking for better pastures and opportunities to line their pockets.

Perhaps the agencies who planted these naastic-moles in the Panth two decades ago are finally reaping their rewards.

(Audio files courtesy of Radio Hamsafar and Rangla Punjab Radio)

[Matheen]

Thanks for your input. But didn't Guru Ji say; Pothi Parmeshwar Ka Thaan?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The point being made is that the only place you will find proof that Guru Sahib gave Gur-gaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in Dasam Bani, particularly Sarbloh Granth. If we disregard Dasam Bani, then we disregard this proof as well.

[GuptSingh84]

Joginder is an <banned word filter activated>. He doesn't make any sense and is a big time Naastik.

Ik Oankar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh is not equal to Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Show me FULL fateh in Dasam Granth.

Thanks for your input. But didn't Guru Ji say; Pothi Parmeshwar Ka Thaan?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The point being made is that the only place you will find proof that Guru Sahib gave Gur-gaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in Dasam Bani, particularly Sarbloh Granth. If we disregard Dasam Bani, then we disregard this proof as well.

(No forum rule on Sarbloh Granth, means we can discuss it, right?) Sarbloh Granth was written after creation of Khalsa and mentions GurGaddi to Guru Granth Sahib... Then why does the writer use Shah Gobind or Das Gobind? Why not Gobind Singh, in case Guru Ji didn't want to use Nanak...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Inder Singh]

Joginder is an <banned word filter activated>. He doesn't make any sense and is a big time Naastik.

He was the main man of kala afghanas sect. Inder Ghagha , missionaries , Singh sabha canada are in bed with him

Now his anti sikh credentials are proved now you do not want to discuss about him. But still he is the main leader of this camp.

Ik Oankar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh is not equal to Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Show me FULL fateh in Dasam Granth.

You have been told that it was verbal salutation given by tenth master at time of creation of khalsa.dasam Granth had been written earlier of this. Part of it comes from

Dasam granth.

Since you do not believe in DG and only believe in SGGS ji, i ask you to show it in SGGS .

Moreover why those people use it who do not believe in DG.Is it not hypocrisy?

(No forum rule on Sarbloh Granth, means we can discuss it, right?) Sarbloh Granth was written after creation of Khalsa and mentions GurGaddi to Guru Granth Sahib... Then why does the writer use Shah Gobind or Das Gobind? Why not Gobind Singh, in case Guru Ji didn't want to use Nanak...

Guru Gobind singh was Guru of sikhs just like other Gurus.

He can use any name whatever he likes to use. No ifs and buts.

The problem with these kala afghanis is they do not like Guru gobind singh ji but have

not the courage yet to say openly.