How Vammi Are You ?

[Guest fordcapri]

i agree again with you they probey think its cool and the in thing, ligting candels dosent bring the dead back.

I'm trying to understand what a world ruled by fordcapri would look like. You say that lighting candles won't bring the dead back, but that's not the point. The point is remembrance.

Gurdwara Sis Ganj commemorates the shahidi of Guru Teg Bahadur Ji. The Gurdwara won't bring Guru Sahib back, but we built it anyway.

Gurdwara Sis Ganj are made because of histrcal event took place there, in connection with a Guru, so naturally there is a Gurdwara there.

Dont agree with the candles thing, if you want rember someone who has passed away talk bout them, what they did, their nature, rember them.

[BhForce]

Its was days when pathans challenged sikhs to show up and lit a jyot inside harimander sahib and singhs gave their life to lit that one jyot and today its a vehm ... :lol: :lol: :lol: old vehmi singhs in our ols vehmi itehas ....

Thanks to jassa for recounting our history.

fordcapri, try to understand the reason why nations light flames and protect them. If someone invaded the US, they would extinguish its flames. American patriots would try to re-light them.

Consider that you can only maintain an eternal flame if your civilisation has sovereignty over the area where the flame is located, and that your civilisation is an ongoing enterprise. That is what an eternal flame represents.

It means "you tried to annihilate us, but we are still here, and still will be until the end of time."

We need to understand the true meanings of our traditions and not belittle them.

On the other hand, the Sikhs who wave their hands over the flame as if it's going to give them something also totally misunderstand the point. Again, we need to have understanding of our traditions.

[Guest fordcapri]

If you want break the bondage of past Indian ritual then you need to discuss these things

[Jag_Singh]

I'm trying to understand what a world ruled by fordcapri would look like.

No muslims under the law of BNP.

[Guest fordcapri]

I'm trying to understand what a world ruled by fordcapri would look like.

No muslims under the law of BNP.

No non-muslims under Sharia.

and why are you hijacking this thread ?

[Gurmat Sangeet]

refute the points i have made.

bani backs up jyot and dhoop, therefore it isnt a meaningless INDIAN ritual

[Jag_Singh]

No non-muslims under Sharia.

and why are you hijacking this thread ?

LOL apologies for the rude interruptions.....besides why non-muslims under sharia?

[BhForce]

If you want break the bondage of past Indian ritual then you need to discuss these things

Your argument is this: I fail to see how flames represent remembrance of the dead.

Basically, you fail to understand the import of symbolism, and so you want to ban it.

Brother, our whole religious practice is based on symbolism. What all do you want to ban in your version of Sikhi?

• Guru sits on a Singhasan or manji sahib while we sit lower on the floor: symbolic of high position of the Guru
  
• We all sit on the floor at the same level: symbolic of equality
  
• We all sit on the floor: symbolic of humility
  
• Eating langar together: symbolic of unity and God's role as Providence
  
• Bowing to Satguru: symbolic of man's lowliness in front of God and Guru
  
• Chaur Sahib: symbolic of Guru's kingship
  
• Rumalla Sahib: symbolic of our respect for Guru
  
• Dastar: symbolic of honour
  
• Kes: symbolic of saintliness
  
• Kirpan: symbolic of honour and steadfastness
  
• Kachera: symbolic of chastity
  
• Standing during ardas: symbolic of supplication
  
• Flame: symbolic of remembrace of shahids
  
• Hazuria: symbolic of humility
  
• Khanda: symbolic of warrior spirit
  
• Patase: symbolic of sweetness of character
  

[Gurmat Sangeet]

DUpu mlAwnlo pvxu cvro kry sgl bnrwie PUlµq joqI ]1]

dhhoop malaaanalo pavan chavaro karae sagal banaraae foola(n)th jothee ||1||

The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

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qw kw DUpu sdw prPulY ]2]

thaa kaa dhhoop sadhaa parafulai ||2||

His incense is ever-fragrant. ||2||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Raag Aasaa

393

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DUp dIp iGRq swij AwrqI ]

dhhoop dheep ghrith saaj aarathee ||

With incense, lamps and ghee, I offer this lamp-lit worship service.

Bhagat Sain Ji

Raag Dhanaasree

695

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BWfw Doie bYis DUpu dyvhu qau dUDY kau jwvhu ]

bhaa(n)ddaa dhhoe bais dhhoop dhaevahu tho dhoodhhai ko jaavahu ||

Wash the vessel, sit down and anoint it with fragrance; then, go out and get the milk.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Raag Soohee

728

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DUp dIp syvw gopwl ]

dhhoop dheep saevaa gopaal ||

My incense and lamps are my service to the Lord.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Raag Gond

866

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jo iqsu BwvY so QIAY qU dIpku qU DUpu ]7]

jo this bhaavai so thheeai thoo dheepak thoo dhhoop ||7||

Whatever pleases Him, happens; You are the lamp, and You are the incense. ||7||

Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Raag Maaroo

1010

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iksu pUj cVwvau dyau DUp ]

kis pooj charraavo dhaeo dhhoop ||

Which one should I worship? Before which one should I burn incense?

Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Raag Basant

1168

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khUM krq j~C gMDRb gwn ] khUM DUp dIp khUM ArG dwn ] 16]136]

kehoo karath jaashh ga(n)dhhrab gaan || kehoo dhhoop dheep kehoo aragh dhaan || 16||136||

Somewhere the songs are sung in the manner of the Yakshas and the Gandharvas. Some perform (the arti), worship with lighted lamps and burning essence (in front of an idol; others accomplish argh offering (of edible products before their deity).(16)(136)

Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Sri Dasam Granth

58

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DUp jgwie kY sMK bjwie kY sIs invwie kY bYn sunwieE ]

dhhoop jagaae kai sa(n)kh bajaae kai sees nivaae kai bain sunaaeiou ||

They burn incense, blow the conch, and bowing their heads, they supplicate:.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Sri Dasam Granth

229

as BHFORCE veerji said next thing, rummale will become vaim, because guru is in the essence of bani and not in the hard cover, paper, or ink of satguru granth sahib.

manji sahib will also become a vaim, because as per ford capris logic, back in the old days they had no electricity and had majis, today we have beds and sofas. Lets seat maharaj on a sofa in a gurdwara.

Soon the physical textual form of Satguru Granth Sahib will also become a vaim, as back in the day there was no such thing as a digital screen and all they had was books, paper, and ink. So lets have a massive computer screen with sikhi to the max or w/e which is mure durable than current format of saroops.

Ford capri, there is a limit and your crossing it with your heretical views

[Guest fordcapri]

refute the points i have made.

bani backs up jyot and dhoop, therefore it isnt a meaningless INDIAN ritual

A few years I had an Akand Path at a Gurdwrda.

We questioned why Joyt was on while Gurbani Sahib was being recited, his answer was

“Allot of Hindus come here they ask for it” loll!!!!!! (No lie)

We then engaged in debate with the President and himself told us the roots of jyot was a one the most vammi things ive heard, he himself knew it was vammi and not logical personally he didn’t agree with Joyt , but only done as Hindus attending the Gurdwara asked for it.

The Joyt was promptly put out.