sikh struggle

[S1ngh]

You agree or not, sikhs have to blame themselves for lot of troubles. Firstly, you know Punjab is 42% scheduled caste and treatment of SCs in Punjab by Sikhs is not very far from the treatment metted out to them in Up or elsewhere. This was the reason, majority of SCs didn't vote for Punjabi sooba because they knew that if sikhs have their way, SCs will suffer more. In spite of GGS, punjab still has lot of "bandhak" majdoors.

Punjabi reduced to ashes was the outcome of non-sikh punjabi choose to vote against punjabi language. Majority of Hindus from all punjabi cities voted against punjabi language even though they speak,write and live on punjabi language in their daily life. This is not only betrayal to their daily neighbor Sikhs but to their own mother tongue, heritage, tradition and history. I don't know the situation of scheduled caste but as far i know that Sikhism is the only religion that offers equality to all human regardless of caste, sex, age and nationality. So the Schedule caste voting against punjabi means they sided with hindus who you and me knows that they treats them really bad as their religion justify the concept untouchables. So the above is just theory hatched by non-sikhs to defame sikhs of punjab. All points doesn't add up at all. Sikhs during 60's/70's were much better in sikh rehat which means them treating non-jatts unequal shows another biased fake made up story by fake scholars/historians.

How can you succeed in Punjab in getting your way when you are fighting against Ravidassia religion who you should join hands with. How can you mistreat 42% of Punjab population which is financially more or less quite strong now. You would have Khalistan right at Independence, if Master Tara Singh and his stooges had allowed Ambedkar to bring in millions of untouchables into Sikh fold. Please read "Sachi Sakhi" by Kapoor Singh, famous Sikh Historian.

What Ambedkar did is certainly not allowed in Sikhism. In Sikhi, everybody can come and go and there is no formality or special occasion to attract other community to be part of us. We don't believe in recruiting members of other religions nor offer any scheme or special offers to anyone to come and be part of sikh dharam. Anybody can come and go in our religion as their wish. We have open door policy. If Dr. Ambedkar wanted to be part of sikhism then he should have done it independently and on his own and only IF he was very sure in sikh rehat and agrees with the principles of sikhi. He never came to sikhi fold shows that he was not spiritually interested but more like politically. There is no restriction for anyone and all are welcome just like darabar sahib got 4 doors to welcome ppl from all communities. Maybe this is the reason why most of the punjab's scheudled caste are Sikhs because they feel welcome to sikhi without any barrier. The only thing left undone is that the current parchar of SGPC failed to nourish those and other souls to be firm in sikh rehat and due that void, ppl including scheduled caste went to dera vaad.

Khalistan was never the concept of Sikhs is 60's or 70's. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale always said on record and off record that "We don't want Khalistan" "Our demand is not Khalistan, but if they give it us then we will take it."

What did we get in return? A murder of Saint who brought numerous into folds of GGS. You go to some Guru Ravidass temples and they stop anybody who wears gathra now. How can one justify the killing with your concept of beadbi which has nothing to do with GGS and is a recent phenomenon.

Let me make this clear... If i come to your dera today and then i spit on your guru sant and do beasti of your guru.. Would you sit idle? or would you stand up and face me? I know you would stand up against me and face me with full force because of your full dedicated and piyar towards your guru or your human sant. Same thing with vienna, You guru or sant was doing baedgi of guru granth sahib ji and that was presented in Austria case. Statements from your community and from my community was taken and it is CLEARLY known that your sant was doing beadbe of Guru Granth Sahib jee by first rubbing rumalla on his feet and then on guru granth sahib ji. That is the truth whether you agree or it. The person who wanted to stop was attacked and burned down and taken to hospital in critical condition. Friends of that guy came down and took care of that situation. Sikhs never attack first and what happened in Vienna is the result of false modern practice adopted by your deceased guru. Who suffered the most? Who are the victims? My people suffered the most. Singhs died, they are in coma and many are in jails without any moral/financial/physical support to them. Nobody want to take panga such huge and that too when living as immigrant in foreign nation unless very serious is involved and that is the beadbe of our 11th Guru Granth Sahib ji. Your sant died because he and his group was involved in wrong practice. Your people damaged millions of dollars property in Punjab to satisfy their rage. Your people get Chartered Flight from Punjab Government and VIPS stooges to receive @ Delhi Airport. And then at the end you are saying.. "You are the Victim?"

Hindus do not treat untouchables equally and that is the fact for the past thousand year or so? You think hard core member of that religion will feel happy knowing that Sikhs treat untouchables like their brother and sister and they are fully allowed to take any post in religious category? Would you think what other developed countries would generally think of hindus? Racist, KKK, Nazis will be the term used to identify the method adopted by brahmins of mis-treating lower caste ppl. These hard core groups will try their best to defame sikhs either by some political stooge or give unlimited power to some dera (Ram Rahim etc..) to create invisible wall between lower caste group and general Sikhs.

Sikhs are liberal and their rehat is very easily reachable by anyone. Just because some bad apples stop any community to particpate doesn't mean that one should leave sikhism. Spiritual connection is not supposed to be that weak ! Only weaker connection will go away and that is their karam. I am not sure about ravidassi group or chamar group but from the area i belong too (Gurdaspur); we have mazabi group and they have very strong link with sikhi. Yes, dera were created such as beas and others to take them away from sikhi but still sizeable good amount of mazabi are firm sikhi. Though i completely do not believe in groupism but i have to use some examples in this reply..

[apnepart2]

Singh Ji,your response is fine. If Anandpur Sahib resolution is the only bottleneck then hell go for it. If Ravidassia can have their own religion than why can't Sikhs have it. It is a different issue that ravidassia are very large in number but that is immaterial.

You make it sound too simple. A law is going to be passed whereby anyone who cause communal riots would face the music. The large no. You seem to be so sure of is not the number you will see behind your back. A dera can cater to only so many people at a time. Dalits have far more lucrative channels to choose. Thou are living in a dream state.

You agree or not, sikhs have to blame themselves for lot of troubles. Firstly, you know Punjab is 42% scheduled caste and treatment of SCs in Punjab by Sikhs is not very far from the treatment metted out to them in Up or elsewhere. This was the reason, majority of SCs didn't vote for Punjabi sooba because they knew that if sikhs have their way, SCs will suffer more. In spite of GGS, punjab still has lot of "bandhak" majdoors.

Sikhs dont have blame anybody but themselves. You are right but not the way you seem to see it. The people who voted against punjabi sooba were pandits and now they have realised their folly. SC s have nothing to do with it. We should have taken care of the busines in 1947, sadly none could predict that the future rulers of Delhi would become communal bigots. There are a lot of bandhua majdoors even in Jalandhar where your dera followers wrecked havoc. Who knows how many were hired by the dera for creating trouble.

There are no badhua majdoors in gurdwaras or sikh religious places. Sikhs are not Police that they have to check and set correct every persons behaviour.

Sikhs of the times were commenting to the like "Ki hun harmandir sahib choorayan chamaran nun de dayiye". This was their mentality than and almost same is now. They were worried about Ambedkar taking over their plush positions. Gandhi had nothing to do with it, as many sikhs claim.

Read some more scholarly work on Ambedkar and Gandhi before forming an opinion. Your views are twisted as your knowledge is nil as i can see it.

How can you succeed in Punjab in getting your way when you are fighting against Ravidassia religion who you should join hands with. How can you mistreat 42% of Punjab population which is financially more or less quite strong now. You would have Khalistan right at Independence, if Master Tara Singh and his stooges had allowed Ambedkar to bring in millions of untouchables into Sikh fold. Please read "Sachi Sakhi" by Kapoor Singh, famous Sikh Historian.

There is no ravidasia religion. The 42% you are counting is mostly Hindu and Christians. Chamaars are just a small fish in this whole vote bank politics. Master Tara Singh gladely welcomed Ambedkar, but Gandhi had made clear there would be no reservation for Sikhs as they are casteless as per their doctrine. That is why Amdbedkar did not become a Sikh because he wanted reservation. It is another matter sikhs managed to get reservation for low castes who were Sikhs.

I don't have to emphasize, how much low castes have contributed to survival and spread of sikhism. What did we get in return? A murder of Saint who brought numerous into folds of GGS. You go to some Guru Ravidass temples and they stop anybody who wears gathra now. How can one justify the killing with your concept of beadbi which has nothing to do with GGS and is a recent phenomenon.

You dont have to lie blatantly in order to push your twisted Dera objective. In doing so you have maligned the great Sikhs who came from all backgrounds. You have been shown earlier that the contribution of low castes was very low compared to other castes. Naming a few examples to support your racist views wont help you. If your saint was true then he would have followed SGGS and not try to push his political agenda over people. But you have been shown the door by the very people you think you commanded. Democracry makes sure that every voice is heard, but it doesnt mean you can dictate everyone. I would like to know how diverse is your dera in terms of castes. Can you put up the names of trustees of the Dera and all it leaders with their castes and backgrounds. You seem to rant a lot about low caste Sikhs, now lets see non-chamaar dera followers and leaders.

One has to think why these problems didn't exist Pre bhinderwale period. Sikhism was spreading faster than and had high profile and you go outside of Punjab, if a sikh is sitting in a bus, nobody would smoke. But now, people smoke and put smoke on sikhs' face and if he objects, he is slapped and is told "Yo haryana sae, Punjab nahin".

So who is being discriminated?

What has sikhs gained by so much turmoil? What is it that sikhs wanted to be fixed? Why this beadbi mess didn't exist till Bhinderwale came..? Was GGS less respected than now...?

Have you read the book on link you were provided? What is your source of your claims?

In my opinion, this all resulted out of politics. Sikhs had become very strong financially and started believing that they can have their own country and it doesn't take much in Punjab to instigate people on religious basis and Bhinderwale did just that to achieve what he believed in.

There you have the answer. I guess now it is the turn of Dera Balan, but you wont be able to do things Bhindranwale did. He stood up for what he believed in. He respected all religions.

This is my last post on this topic...

This shows your true colors. Now go back and post hatred for Sikhs in un-related threads. Your knowledge of history is ZERO and you have only HATE filled in your heart. You are being an over-zealous lover of dera and it makes you see things only in negative light related to Sikhs. And the path you have set out for yourself will help you achieve nothing.

[ladli-fauj]

wow harjit you are an example of someone who falls to govt. propoganda who killed innocent people are you talking about CATS who dehli sent in to dress as Sikhs grow beards and kill innocent people to destrow a movement ? this happened in my village to my grandpas student, you don't even know the real truth, your calling people who sacrificed their lives, their homes, whoes parents, sisters, relatives, for the Kaum. They lived in crappy environments just to get freedom and the real SINGHS died fighting for it, but sadly people like you havn't put any mull for their sacrifice and noticed their kurbani.

During the Gurus time, when Muslims were in raaj, Khalsa was considered "terrorist" to the muslim leaders, the Sikh Fighters were considered 'terrorist" our Guru was considered a Wakhwadi for Khalsa Raaj and a modern day "terrorist" but really were they terrorist ? NO

Bhagat Singh and all other fighters for indias freedom was considered "terrorist" where they ?

same as in 1980's Sikh Soldiers were considered "terrorist" all govt. propoganda which fools like you follow and get on the floor and listen to

[babbar_sher]

harjit you really need a history lesson, especially when it comes to sant ji. for crying out loud my 15 year old brother knows more about sant jarnail singh bhindranwale that you do.

[harjits4]

harjit you really need a history lesson, especially when it comes to sant ji. for crying out loud my 15 year old brother knows more about sant jarnail singh bhindranwale that you do.

Babbar Ji:

I really don't know much about him and I admit that. My only intro to him was through a tape that one of my sikh friends had brought (smuggled actually to delhi), where he was saying the following:

"Eh jo Delhi wich baithi mashkarian kardi hai (referring to Indira), kehndi hai sikh hathiar na rakhan, ohnu patta hona chahida hai ki sher kirpana rakhde ne, bakrian nahin"

"ek ek singh ne 35-35 hinduan nun gaddi charan hai"

He was openly instigating sikhs against killing hindus. Each Sikh killing 35 hindus. A Saint will not do that. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, even though he was labelled terrorist by Mughals, did not utter or commit any such act or statement. He did't take shelter in a gurudwara and take innocents as hostage. It was your own sikhs who didn't allow him (Guru Gobind Singh) to vist Harimandir Sahib even once in his lifetime. He didn't make hit lists. He didn't send his kharkoos to kill common people etc. In fact, he honored Bhai Kanahiya Ji when he was found serving water to muslim soldiers. He saved the lives of others. This is why Guru Gobind Singh is still alive today.

As far as Bhinderwale is concerned, yes he may be against casteism but the purpose of such people (who talk against casteism) is to basically give few crumbs or izzat to chooray/chamars and get them on their side and make them fight for sikhs cause. Such idiots than (like Beant Singh who killed Indira Gandhi), go ahead and kill. These people remain behind the scenes and make low castes fight for them instead. Same people send their children to Canada, USA, UK and get children of other poor sikhs killed in the name of khalistan or punjabi sooba etc.

Bhinderwale was a criminal who died a disgraceful death. He was shot while running away (at least that's what army said). Guru Gobind Singh sacrificed his family, Bhinderwale sacrificed other people's families.

Mod note: You've been given a warning for calling a Sant a criminal despite a complete lack of evidence on your part.

[harjits4]

You agree or not, sikhs have to blame themselves for lot of troubles. Firstly, you know Punjab is 42% scheduled caste and treatment of SCs in Punjab by Sikhs is not very far from the treatment metted out to them in Up or elsewhere. This was the reason, majority of SCs didn't vote for Punjabi sooba because they knew that if sikhs have their way, SCs will suffer more. In spite of GGS, punjab still has lot of "bandhak" majdoors.

Punjabi reduced to ashes was the outcome of non-sikh punjabi choose to vote against punjabi language. Majority of Hindus from all punjabi cities voted against punjabi language even though they speak,write and live on punjabi language in their daily life. This is not only betrayal to their daily neighbor Sikhs but to their own mother tongue, heritage, tradition and history. I don't know the situation of scheduled caste but as far i know that Sikhism is the only religion that offers equality to all human regardless of caste, sex, age and nationality. So the Schedule caste voting against punjabi means they sided with hindus who you and me knows that they treats them really bad as their religion justify the concept untouchables. So the above is just theory hatched by non-sikhs to defame sikhs of punjab. All points doesn't add up at all. Sikhs during 60's/70's were much better in sikh rehat which means them treating non-jatts unequal shows another biased fake made up story by fake scholars/historians.

How can you succeed in Punjab in getting your way when you are fighting against Ravidassia religion who you should join hands with. How can you mistreat 42% of Punjab population which is financially more or less quite strong now. You would have Khalistan right at Independence, if Master Tara Singh and his stooges had allowed Ambedkar to bring in millions of untouchables into Sikh fold. Please read "Sachi Sakhi" by Kapoor Singh, famous Sikh Historian.

What Ambedkar did is certainly not allowed in Sikhism. In Sikhi, everybody can come and go and there is no formality or special occasion to attract other community to be part of us. We don't believe in recruiting members of other religions nor offer any scheme or special offers to anyone to come and be part of sikh dharam. Anybody can come and go in our religion as their wish. We have open door policy. If Dr. Ambedkar wanted to be part of sikhism then he should have done it independently and on his own and only IF he was very sure in sikh rehat and agrees with the principles of sikhi. He never came to sikhi fold shows that he was not spiritually interested but more like politically. There is no restriction for anyone and all are welcome just like darabar sahib got 4 doors to welcome ppl from all communities. Maybe this is the reason why most of the punjab's scheudled caste are Sikhs because they feel welcome to sikhi without any barrier. The only thing left undone is that the current parchar of SGPC failed to nourish those and other souls to be firm in sikh rehat and due that void, ppl including scheduled caste went to dera vaad.

Khalistan was never the concept of Sikhs is 60's or 70's. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale always said on record and off record that "We don't want Khalistan" "Our demand is not Khalistan, but if they give it us then we will take it."

What did we get in return? A murder of Saint who brought numerous into folds of GGS. You go to some Guru Ravidass temples and they stop anybody who wears gathra now. How can one justify the killing with your concept of beadbi which has nothing to do with GGS and is a recent phenomenon.

Let me make this clear... If i come to your dera today and then i spit on your guru sant and do beasti of your guru.. Would you sit idle? or would you stand up and face me? I know you would stand up against me and face me with full force because of your full dedicated and piyar towards your guru or your human sant. Same thing with vienna, You guru or sant was doing baedgi of guru granth sahib ji and that was presented in Austria case. Statements from your community and from my community was taken and it is CLEARLY known that your sant was doing beadbe of Guru Granth Sahib jee by first rubbing rumalla on his feet and then on guru granth sahib ji. That is the truth whether you agree or it. The person who wanted to stop was attacked and burned down and taken to hospital in critical condition. Friends of that guy came down and took care of that situation. Sikhs never attack first and what happened in Vienna is the result of false modern practice adopted by your deceased guru. Who suffered the most? Who are the victims? My people suffered the most. Singhs died, they are in coma and many are in jails without any moral/financial/physical support to them. Nobody want to take panga such huge and that too when living as immigrant in foreign nation unless very serious is involved and that is the beadbe of our 11th Guru Granth Sahib ji. Your sant died because he and his group was involved in wrong practice. Your people damaged millions of dollars property in Punjab to satisfy their rage. Your people get Chartered Flight from Punjab Government and VIPS stooges to receive @ Delhi Airport. And then at the end you are saying.. "You are the Victim?"

Hindus do not treat untouchables equally and that is the fact for the past thousand year or so? You think hard core member of that religion will feel happy knowing that Sikhs treat untouchables like their brother and sister and they are fully allowed to take any post in religious category? Would you think what other developed countries would generally think of hindus? Racist, KKK, Nazis will be the term used to identify the method adopted by brahmins of mis-treating lower caste ppl. These hard core groups will try their best to defame sikhs either by some political stooge or give unlimited power to some dera (Ram Rahim etc..) to create invisible wall between lower caste group and general Sikhs.

Sikhs are liberal and their rehat is very easily reachable by anyone. Just because some bad apples stop any community to particpate doesn't mean that one should leave sikhism. Spiritual connection is not supposed to be that weak ! Only weaker connection will go away and that is their karam. I am not sure about ravidassi group or chamar group but from the area i belong too (Gurdaspur); we have mazabi group and they have very strong link with sikhi. Yes, dera were created such as beas and others to take them away from sikhi but still sizeable good amount of mazabi are firm sikhi. Though i completely do not believe in groupism but i have to use some examples in this reply..

Singh Ji, I like your example of spitting. Let's extend it further. We followed the bani of Guru Granth Sahib and we addressed it as guru and we still respect it. When you address someone as guru, what is one supposed to do..? Yes, follow what guru says (I got this discussion from somewhere else, but it has weight). Now if my guru says, do xyz and I do abc, do you think my guru, irrespective of whether it is human or not, would like me or would be happy with me. Since I am not following his orders, guru will not like me even though I may taek him matha forever.

So if Guru Granth Sahib says that Saints should be respected and dust of their feet should be put on forhead (literaly similar is the wording in Guru Granth Sahib by Guru Nanak Dev Ji) and if this teaching has been imparted to me by my elders than what should I do? I touch the feet of Saints in presence of Guru Granth Sahib respectfully while keeping in mind that I am following message in Guru Granth Sahib. Where am I wrong...? You may bring in Sikh Rehat Mariada but than if Guru Granth Sahib is a universal granth than why Sikh Mariada is forced upon groups who are not Sikhs. It is my belief that everybody should be allowed to have their own mariada as long as it jives well with teachings in Guru Granth Sahib. So this spitting example that you gave will fail in the case of beadbi because nothing such is attributed to in Guru Granth Sahib and in general it is a mark of disrespect, while respecting Saints in presence of Guru Granth Sahib is merely follwing the message of Guru Granth Sahib an touching feet is respect.

Naamdhari (kukas) also touch the feet of their gurus in presence of Guru Granth Sahib.

As far as that rumala incident is concerned, it is a lie and rumour spread around by some chamar wanabe sikhs who do these kind o things to incite real sikhs. What may have happened is that someone may have taken rumala to the Saints after bowing before Guru Granth Sahib and than bowed down before saints while keeping rumala on side and than put it on Guru Granth Sahib. The keeping it aside of rumala may have been more of a convenience while bowing down rather than touching it with the feet. Anyway, I have inquired about it and such a thing didn't happen. On a side note, on the very basic level, if the sikhs have understanding that wherever Guru Granth Sahib is kept, Sikh Maraiada should be forced than I am afraid there would be trouble. It is something that sikhs have to decide. Alternatively, if mariada is driven from the bani in Guru Granth Sahib itself than none of these issues of beadbi have any meaning.

Interestingly, al this beadbi nonsense started around 70s,80s when Bhinderwala came on the scene. So it looks like that the poision spread by Bhinderwale and his cronies is much responsible for such an atmosphere in Punjab. Before 70s, everything was peaceful. Guru Granth Sahib was respected more than it is now. You will have to agree with that.

I am sorry, whatever you may say or believe, Sikhs have no one to blame except themselves for the turmoil they are in, and have been in since 70s... They started the mess and obviously opportunists are always there to cash on it.

[S1ngh]

What may have happened is that someone may have taken rumala to the Saints after bowing before Guru Granth Sahib and than bowed down before saints while keeping rumala on side and than put it on Guru Granth Sahib.

First of all we are not discussing the issue of matha teek/touching feet of human form guru in front of guru granth sahib ji. Our guru sahib jees hukam is to ONLY matha teek to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ! Touching other persons feet with your hand is the sign of respect given to elder as punjabi culture. Bending down your head all the way down to someone other than guru granth sahib is NEVER accepted in sikhism and it is considered as Paap to do that when guru sahib is present in darbar. No matter what sant is present

As far as that rumala incident is concerned, it is a lie and rumour spread around by some chamar wanabe sikhs who do these kind o things to incite real sikhs. What may have happened is that someone may have taken rumala to the Saints after bowing before Guru Granth Sahib and than bowed down before saints while keeping rumala on side and than put it on Guru Granth Sahib.

That was no rumor nor it is any gossip going around. Ask any person who was present there. It is the fact that many singhs already expressed this to the person "Not to do this" before he was shot but he continued to practice such immoral practice. Main issue was that the Rumalla sahib was first touched the feet of the now deceased person (sant to ravidassi community) and then it was taken over to cover guru granth sahib ji. Rehatvan Sikh will never tolerate such acts and this is the huge insult to Guru Granth Sahib ji. That is the huge beadbe and much gross than what Nirankari baba did in 1980's in Amritsar. We give respect to rumalla as "Rumalla Sahib" and if you visit any shop in Amritsar to purchase any rumalla, most shops will tell you to leave your shoes outside in respect for rumalla sahib. These things are very sensitive to sikh community and should be respected by all.

Interestingly, al this beadbi nonsense started around 70s,80s when Bhinderwala came on the scene. So it looks like that the poision spread by Bhinderwale and his cronies is much responsible for such an atmosphere in Punjab. Before 70s, everything was peaceful. Guru Granth Sahib was respected more than it is now. You will have to agree with that. I am sorry, whatever you may say or believe, Sikhs have no one to blame except themselves for the turmoil they are in, and have been in since 70s... They started the mess and obviously opportunists are always there to cash on it.

You statement is full of flaw because.. Just because you hate sikh leader sant jarnail singh bhinderanwaly, you can't justify yourself in any way.. With full respect you are the outcome of the full propaganda promoted by india government and dera babay after 70's.. Here is why none of your statement carry any strong stand:

- You don't have any clue about sikhs in general, about their basic belief nor you know the contributions of sikh to india in particular. You say go for anandpur sahib resolution.. get it approved and your make it sounds like very easy to get it approved but have no clue how hard we have been trying to do so for the past freaking several decades.

- you have no clue about sikh demands, Anandpur sahib resolution, Punjab water crisis, Punjab capital taken away, punjab natural resource ownership.. We are not khusraay so that we can stay quiet and peaceful while everything is being taken away from us?? There are many types of indian who will stay and accept that they are khusray to escape hardship but Sikhs are not that degraded type community. Our guru sahib jee clearly said.. Try the peaceful way.. try all possible ways to get your goal.. If you can't then achieve it by kirpan.. (Guru gobind singh ji).

- You yourself said in other reply that you don't know much about bhinderanwale except you heard him saying couple of lines in his speech thru ur friends audio file. How can you judge a person when you don't have any clue about him? That is very immature statement coming from you. You cannot become rocket scientist when you don't even know the definition of rocket.

[Matheen]

Harjit, if you can't be bothered to learn the truth about Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, at least don't accuse them of stuff they didn't do. Did you listen to the entire speech and put it in context? Have you heard the rest of the speeches?

Show me the army report that says Sant Ji was shot while running away?! Immediately after, General Brar was recorded saying "they fought like lions" - the video is on Youtube somewhere. Please read the book by A.R. Darshi, a Hindu magistrate from Punjab. The link has been given, there no excuse for your ignorance now.

Answer one simple question: why do you (personally) follow religion, any religion?

[SunSingh]

non-Sikh groups are not expected to follow SRM. But they are expected to show full and proper respect for Guru Granth Sahib ji as shown by our Gurus.

[babbar_sher]

i guess we should all listen to harjit. i mean the guy clearly stated that he does not know anything about sant ji yet he goes on about him as if he had spend 20 years studying the life of sant bhindranwale :wacko:

nice work dummy.