Baba Jarnail Singh'S Return?

[ladli-fauj]

Bhai sahib, Dasam Granth prophecizes.... many Gur Sikhs have prophecized about futute events such as Sant Baba Thakur singh Ji, Brahmgiyani Thakur Singh Ji, Giyani Sundar Singh Ji Bhindranwale and many other Gur Sikhs...

[singh987]

Bhai sahib, Dasam Granth prophecizes.... many Gur Sikhs have prophecized about futute events such as Sant Baba Thakur singh Ji, Brahmgiyani Thakur Singh Ji, Giyani Sundar Singh Ji Bhindranwale and many other Gur Sikhs...

My dear paaji,

who can know the will of the almighty but the almighty himself?! I completely accept that he MAY CHOOSE to share his will with his gursikh. But this would be a rarity.. someone who knows the will of the almighty, then you have to think, does the almighty also wish for what he has revealed to be shared with the rest of the world? - Sounds familiar to me, infact this reminds me of our guru sahibaans!

Please back up your claim with references from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj.

[ladli-fauj]

Dasam Granth Is The writing from the same Gurus... and Guru says our Baani Is Our Guru, and the Guru Is Our Baani, To me Dasam Granth is same as powerful as GGS because it is writing from our Guru...

[singh987]

Dasam Granth Is The writing from the same Gurus... and Guru says our Baani Is Our Guru, and the Guru Is Our Baani, To me Dasam Granth is same as powerful as GGS because it is writing from our Guru...

That statement doesn't answer my query. Please don't change the focus of the thread.

All I want to know:

is what I believe wrong? As a fellow sikh, you should try to assist and eradicate my query!

The only reason I asked for reference from SGGS ji is so that if I am indeed wrong, I can use gurubani to guide myself and other mislead souls. Sri Dasam Granth, does not have gurgaddi... and is a controversial topic for many people. What you're trying to induce is a completely different topic of discussion.

Paaji, if you can't help me, don't respond. wait for someone with sufficient knowledge to come along.

[ladli-fauj]

My bad i thought you were trying to say that Dasam Granth isn't a good enough reference. So what help do you need, I don't understand, there is many gupt information in the panth that world does not know about. From what my believing is, when Shaheed Singhs, Mahapurkhs who have passed away or Even Gurus come to dreams of gursikhs and talk to them or come to people while they are not sleeping tell them things, or give them answers. There was a Katha of Thakur singh Ji ( its on this forum somewhere) and Bhramgiyani says that a Singh had a dream and Sant Baba Kartar Singh Ji came and told him to build something in a certain place, I don't remember details.

[singh987]

Glad you got my point! Dhan Waheguru! Righty, well if we focus back on topic, our initial discussion was about the 'return' of Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa.. (quick summary to get back on track!)

My points were:

I believe Gurbaani doesn't accept/believe in prophecies - because we believe in the hukam of the almighty.

Sant jee's return was fabricated to calm the sangat at the time but people stuck with it and took it to another level.

Thirdly - Why would sant ji - with his level of pyaar for sikhi go gupt for sooo long!! I personally think it's disrespectful to think of such an individual in such a way.

Finally - we need to re-focus and start taking action... rather than hoping that sant jee will return as predicted.

You put forward the argument:

Sant ji is waiting for the right time to return (therefore, saying that he WILL return)

Sant Ji will return to establish Khalsa Raaj

You also indicate that gurbani accepts/believes in prophecies.

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I would like to know - with respect to baani from SGGS Ji, if as a sikh, I should accept/ believe in prophecies.

Debate simply works by refuting what the 'other' party says with evidence to support your counter-argument. So, you can simply address my above arguments!

:BL:

EDIT: I just wanted to say.. here's some more food for thought.

Sant jee have been 'gupt' for a long time now, he is, afterall human. Think of how thier shareer would have aged.. How long will sant jee be waiting for the right time!!!

[Only five]

Glad you got my point! Dhan Waheguru! Righty, well if we focus back on topic, our initial discussion was about the 'return' of Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa.. (quick summary to get back on track!)

My points were:

I believe Gurbaani doesn't accept/believe in prophecies - because we believe in the hukam of the almighty.

How does prophecies and Hukam of Waheguru go against each other. And bring the shabads that reject prophecies.

This atheist way of thinking is clouding alot of Sikhs minds.

[HardeepSinghJee]

If you watch the video on youtube towards the end, Baba Takhur Singh says that he did an ardas in the UK so that Baba Jarnail Singh comes back before Baba Takhur Singh passes away. This is because if Baba Takhur Singh passes away, people will say that he lied. You can watch the video on youtube for proof.

If a true gurmukh brahygyani does any bachan, it 100% becomes true. For example when Bhai Taru Singh found out his kesh would be cut, Bhai Taru Singh said "you (emperor) will die before me"and his bachan became true. That is the the true power of a gurmukh. There are very far and few true gurmukhs nowa days.

Phul chuck maaf

[singh987]

Glad you got my point! Dhan Waheguru! Righty, well if we focus back on topic, our initial discussion was about the 'return' of Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa.. (quick summary to get back on track!)

My points were:

I believe Gurbaani doesn't accept/believe in prophecies - because we believe in the hukam of the almighty.

How does prophecies and Hukam of Waheguru go against each other. And bring the shabads that reject prophecies.

This atheist way of thinking is clouding alot of Sikhs minds.

You can have a good read of this thread right here...

Everyone will draw their own conclusions, I guess I don't think prophecies sit well with the core principles of gurmat, as highlighted in discussions in the above thread.

As far as Baani against prophecy is concerned, I will look. I'm certain I have heard some bachans which accommodate my thinking. But if you can reference any baani that says it's ok to predict events, or predict re-births, please do share.

But the simple concept (in my eyes) of his hukam is that it is HIS HUKAM, he can change it whenever and however he wants - prophecy wouldn't accommodate a change in the fortold event because then it wouldn't come true. (I hope I have made sense)

Please don't call me an atheist just because I am not as enlightened as you. I am an amrit-dhaari Guru Ka Sikh, and that's how I demand to be addressed. If I am wrong, I bow my head to my almighty creator and ask for forgiveness. Since you clearly know better than me, why don't you help me out as well?

Veer ji, don't insult me when I haven't tried in any way, shape, or form to insult you. If I have unknowingly caused offence, I apologise, that was not my intention!