Amarjit Chawala - Mehta Singing In Mandir

[GPS]

Sins of amarjit chawla are nothing as compared to the likes of Dal Khalsa , council of khalistan , sikh youth of america who condemned bani of tenth master.

These organizations are the real traitors of sikhs.They have been eating from donations of panth all these years and they ditched sikhs by siding with heretic ragi.Traitors include babbars and sikh federation of germany.Sikhs will never forget these traitors.

[Only five]

gurdssingh

Before I even respond to your post answer me this one question.

You say only to worship God, but these really means nothing because to you it's alright to worship a deity in Sikhi and this would be indirectly worshipping God.

Tell me if you believe worshipping a deity meaning indirectly God, is correct according to Sikhi?

I did state 'Albeit he maybe worshiping a deity.....'. – Means Even though he is worshiping through a deity he is praying to GOD indirectly.

Did you make a mistake in the above quote or do you still stand by it? Either way you answer I will end up writing on your post to me, but this will help determine exactly what you mean by only worship God.

[apnepart2]

Sins of amarjit chawla are nothing as compared to the likes of Dal Khalsa , council of khalistan , sikh youth of america who condemned bani of tenth master.

These organizations are the real traitors of sikhs.They have been eating from donations of panth all these years and they ditched sikhs by siding with heretic ragi.Traitors include babbars and sikh federation of germany.Sikhs will never forget these traitors.

Yeh. As they say in Hinduism...vinaash kaale vipreet buddhi.

[gurdssingh]

All I have been saying from the start is why be so upset at another person's religious practices. The only point I have been trying to put across is if thats what he wants to do why should it be so offensive to anyone else. But okay I have the answer in he is involved in panthic affairs.

Doe Waheguru lack something that the deity has?

I don't understand where the misconception of I believe idol's are more important than Waheguru has come from?

there Are Many People Who Call Themselves Sikhs, Who In Their Lives Do Really Bad Stuff Including All The Bajjar Kuriets, Going To Various Places of Worship, And So Much More, Etc.

I did not know it was a really bad thing to go to various places of worship, is it? Did any of Guru's not visit other faiths places of worship? Looking at the other side of the coin and reversing the situation, that would mean it would be wrong for people of other faiths to visit the Gurdwara. That is not true, anyone is allowed in the Gurdwara as long as they have not been smoking / drinking etc, and observe the practices i.e. shoes off, hair covered etc. If someone of another faith visited the Gurdwara would you not expect them to show respect and bow down to SGGS Ji. I know Amarjit was worshiping but this is in relation to the above quote, 'it is really bad to go to another religious place'.

These People Are Not Khalsa Dharma Inspired, Nor Do They Have Any Khalsa Dharma Qualities. They Are Punjabee Culture People, I Think They Are Amongst The Greatest Paapees On Earth. They Are The Ones Who In The Name Of Guru Nanak, Destroy The True Dharma Of Guru Nanak). The Fake Sikhs Are The Greatest Enemy Of Sikhi Today.

Are you just referring to people who want to control Sikh institutions or everyone else who falls in to that category? Maharaja Ranjit Singh was summoned to the Akal Thakt for breaking the rehat and was also punished, which he accepted. He continued to associate with a muslim woman, drank liquor and consumed opium. He also visited many places of worship. But as he had contributed generously to many shrines, and other reasons he is highly respected. For example he is commemorated above the entrance of Darbar Sahib, Sri Harmandir sahib. Also I recall a picture of him on the top corner of the main gate / entrance that leads to Sri Hazur Sahib complex. Surely then this is not right according to your views?

Only Amritdhaarees Should Be Representing Sikhs (Sikh Channel, Please Take Note Of This As Well. Don't Have Non-Amritdhaarees Hosting Shows. Understand That The Energies Of The New Generation Nishkhaam Amritdhaarees Can Change The Audience For The Better Towards Sikh Dharma. The Energies Of The Bajjar Kureitees Have Negative Effect, Even If They Talk About 'Sikhi' Things).

You seem to believe that only Amritdhari's can have a view or talk about Sikhi. Is this not a bigoted and intolerant view? That means then on the flip side, you should not be able to have a view on another person's faith or religious practices. That to me sounds absurd no doubt you think the opposite but, how else can anyone learn if we cannot indulge in religious discourse and debate, raise questions and state personal views. Before 1699, it was not a massive sin to cut one's hair was it? (As the Khalsa had not been initiated). I have found no evidence. So what about those people who associated with the Guru's and had an influence on Sikh affairs prior to Vaisakhi 1699? We do not know for a fact if any one of the early Sikh's of importance ever cut their hair or not or did anything else. With regards to kurahits. Just one question maybe someone can answer this, why was the rehat maryada passed down orally / Why was there no written record from the start? The only thing is it has changed over the years. WHY? One example is at one point the learned scholars of the panth had - associating / having contact / relations with a Muslim women as a very big sin. Muslim women changed to any other woman who is not your wife / committing adultery. Also the issue of jhatka is controversial amongst many, i.e. is jhatka defined as no meat or meat in which the animal is killed with one blow, not sacrificially such as halal. Jhatka of goats is practicesd to this date, I have witnessed it at Hazur Shaib and other Gurdware around Nanded.

Gurdsingh as you have admitted you have no knowledge about Sikhi or Gurmukhi stop wasting your and other peoples time. Dont argue about things u have no knowledge about.

You maythink that, and you are entitled to your opinion. I am not so arrogant and egotistical in stating I know everything or that I'm an expert in any field as there is always going to be someone else who will know a lot more on that specific topic. I admitted I'm not well versed in Bani. Whereas with regards to Gurmukhi, please re-read the first five words of my first post on this thread. Having no knowledge against admitting you don't know everything and have lots more to learn are different things. You can see how easy it is to make judgements and then with your own opinion to make untrue statements. As for wasting my time it's up to me what I do, your time simply don't read my post and others – how can you comment?

As for other members going to catholic schools

. Where did catholic school issue come from as I didn't start it? I thought many members were from the UK, reason being many of the sangat's posts / responses suggest this. I know for a fact in every mainstream primary school in UK, hymns are sung in assembly. I was merely making a comparison.

gurdssingh

Before I even respond to your post answer me this one question.

You say only to worship God, but these really means nothing because to you it's alright to worship a deity in Sikhi and this would be indirectly worshipping God.

Tell me if you believe worshipping a deity meaning indirectly God, is correct according to Sikhi?

Please read my posts again, either I haven't made myself clear or you have misunderstood me. I meant even though he is there all he is doing is praying, is that so wrong? But from a Sikhi perspective it is – I understand that now, thanks to your responses. Earlier I have stated Sikhi does not approve of idol worship. My only point I have been trying to put across is that why have a problem with the way someone else worships, each to their own, live and let live. Just because you may not agree with it and think it's totally wrong why condemn the person for it. I have stated in my earlier post I don't agree with idol worship but why judge what others do? Does bani not state that we can't go to GOD directly, we need Guru Ji. (English translationof SGGS, taken from Prof. Shaib Singh Ji). As Sikh's connect with Waheguru Ji, through Bani of our GURUs. So maybe Hindu's connect in their own way I don't know. I don't know how Hindu's pray in mandirs. Again please take time to read my posts before jumping to conclusions and making false statements. It is so easy to understand why things can be taken out of context just from this thread. Meaning if a person is conditioned in a certain way, they will jump to conclusions putting their own slant on a topic / conversation as they have already made up their mind. Without even accuratley reading / listening the information before them. On a personal note is there a hint in some of the posts in this thread that I am not welcome on this site or to even talk about or discuss Sikhi? As in my profile I have disclosed that I am not Amritdhari. Please honest answers.

[Only five]

I asked you previously,

gurdssingh

Before I even respond to your post answer me this one question.

You say only to worship God, but these really means nothing because to you it's alright to worship a deity in Sikhi and this would be indirectly worshipping God.

Please read my posts again, either I haven't made myself clear or you have misunderstood me. I meant even though he is there all he is doing is praying, is that so wrong? But from a Sikhi perspective it is I understand that now, thanks to your responses. Earlier I have stated Sikhi does not approve of idol worship. My only point I have been trying to put across is that why have a problem with the way someone else worships, each to their own, live and let live. Just because you may not agree with it and think it's totally wrong why condemn the person for it. I have stated in my earlier post I don't agree with idol worship but why judge what others do? Does bani not state that we can't go to GOD directly, we need Guru Ji. (English translationof SGGS, taken from Prof. Shaib Singh Ji). As Sikh's connect with Waheguru Ji, through Bani of our GURUs. So maybe Hindu's connect in their own way I don't know. I don't know how Hindu's pray in mandirs. Again please take time to read my posts before jumping to conclusions and making false statements. It is so easy to understand why things can be taken out of context just from this thread. Meaning if a person is conditioned in a certain way, they will jump to conclusions putting their own slant on a topic / conversation as they have already made up their mind. Without even accuratley reading / listening the information before them. On a personal note is there a hint in some of the posts in this thread that I am not welcome on this site or to even talk about or discuss Sikhi? As in my profile I have disclosed that I am not Amritdhari. Please honest answers.

Thanks for not answering my question directly and inorder to cover your Hindu ways up. But you made it clear. For you worshipping an deity is indirectly worshipping God. And there is no need to play games here(claiming to be a victim). Singhs and Singhnis here at this site are very nice, they just don't like people who think they are clever coming here and trying to make a fool out of them. This includes me. And yes when people try to make a fool out of me then be prepared to get a response that has bite. But do keep reading because it will be full of important info.

You say:

Does bani not state that we can't go to GOD directly, we need Guru Ji. (English translationof SGGS, taken from Prof. Shaib Singh Ji). As Sikh's connect with Waheguru Ji, through Bani of our GURUs. So maybe Hindu's connect in their own way I don't know. I don't know how Hindu's pray in mandirs.

First off, don't hide behind others and then add I don't know, be a man and don't play games. If you don't know then keep quiet and keep reading Gurbani till you know or ask members here (you joined to learn then ask question rather than trying to pushing your manmat here, unless the learning part is just a front). We have countless places in Gurbani where it says there is no difference between Guru And God. Gurbani tells us they are one and the same. Guru Nanak Dev ji is God and God/Waheguru brought to us Gurbani/Guru/Waheguru's word so we can become one with God. Though the word is never separate from God or any different. Second a deity is not Guru/Waheguru(in the formless, original state, but a creation, like the earth) and if it was then there was no reason for Guru Nanak Dev ji to come and give us Gurbani. The Purnaas, Shastraas, and gita were already here, to teach. Since this has been established now expect rest of the response in the past post you wrote.

[Guest Bloom]

Dear Gurdssingh,

In My Opinion,

I did not go through your profile earlier, and thus did not know you were not Amritdhaaree, thank you for clearing that. Usually when I see someone use the name Singh in their Name, I usually conclude they are Amritdhaaree, until they later let it be known or it becomes obvious. Using the name Singh is Good, it also brings one closer to Guru, and hopefully all who keep the names Singh and Kaur but are not Amritdhaaree, will be inspired to become Guru Jees Singhs and Kaurs. Guru Gobind Singh Jee MahaaRaaj Took on the Name Singh after Himself Taking Amrit of Panj Pyareh, before that Guru Gobind Singh Jee was known as Guru Gobind Rai, my prayers are with you that Guru Sahib blesses you to become a Singh as well, and that you also be inspired to live according to the Code of the Singh for your entire life, and may you always keep getting closer and closer To Guru. It's a never ending journey, the depths of The Palace Of The Guru are Infinite. But In this code, going to any places of worship other than the house of the Guru is forbidden. In the Eternal Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Jee we have been given unimaginable blessings. Dhan Dhan Sri GuruGranth Sahib Jee Is The King, Dhan Dhan Sri DasamGranth Sahib Jee is an Ang and Fort. Along the journey and building the Eternal Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Jee Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj, beginning with Sri Guru Nanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj, Brahmgyan Baanee such as Bhai Gurdaas Jee Baanee, Bhai Nand Lal Singh Jee Baanee, Bhai Gurdas Singh Jee Baane, RehitNaams of Khalsa, Very deep blessings have been blessed to Khalsa. Within this, and even the Rehit Maryada you will find that going to other places of worship is not within Khalsa Dharma. The truth is, for me to explain in detail, I might have to write too many pages, it would probably become a book, lol, and still I wouldn't be able to fully detail my thoughts, so I only wish that you come to the conclusions that going to mandirs, mosques, churches etc, for a Sikh is unacceptable. Its like a Billionaire travelling cheap cheap mega cheap cheap class; We've been private Jets and More. I am of the conviction that Khalsa Dharma is The Greatest of All.

Our Gurus went to other places of other peoples worship to break them from their dualities to join them with Gurmat. Our Gurus went to spread the truth (you spread the truth to people who need the full truth, I hope you understand what I am trying to say). If you take that as its okay to go to other places of worship, to actually worship, no, you are mistaken. A Sikh never leaves The Guru. Anyone who goes to other places of worship to worship, cannot be a Sikh of the Guru. Its like a child of a Billionaire going to a begger asking for money. Looking at the other side as you mentioned, if anyone else comes to Gurdwara; yes that is a great thing. As I said, Khalsa Dharma Is The Greatest, and It Will Always Be. So a Sikh should only go The Guru, and everyone else should always come to the Guru. Take Sri Harmandir Sahib for example, it has four entrances, but one path. Open for all, but one path, inside lives The Guru, Akaal Purakh Himself. All come to Guru, The Sikhs Go Nowhere else.

The people who are not fully practicing Sikhs controlling Sikh institutions are not good. Corrupt Sikhs controlling Sikh institutions are not good. Only authentic genuine selfless Niskhaam Amridhaaree Sikhs should be controlling Sikh Institutions and doing proper parchaar. Anyone giving Bheta (offering) to Guru (honest Bheta) out of Love is most likely accepted as a token of their love. This is probably the reason Raja Ranjit S. offerings were accepted. Him being a Sikh or not I do not Know. If he was not a practicing Amritdhaaree Sikh, which includes saving from the bajjar kureits and keeping Ang Sang Kakaars, then I would not consider him a sikh. He might be a person of importance for Raaj and culture, but the True test of a Sikh is Known through Maryaadaa. In Dargah who is accepted or not, will be known there, we have been given the Map for Smooth Sailing to be Accepted with Honor in Dargah. Here we can try out best to be Gurus Sikhs with the Prayers in our Hearts, Minds and Tongues to be accepted in The True Court of The Lord As Guru Gobind Singh Jees Sikhs. We must strive to keep the minimum rehit of saving from bajjar kureits and keeping Sri Panj Kakaars Ang Sang (Of Course With Focus On Baanee).

My view is anyone can talk about sikhi, in fact this should be greatly encouraged, greatly greatly encouraged. What I was suggesting is that Genuine Practicing Amritdhaarees (Not These Bloody Corrupt Committee Member Types) should be guiding the non-amritdhaarees and they should be 'hosting' the shows, etc., and taking control of Sikh Institutions. The non-amritdhaaree youth today have great ego. The youth today are educated, wealthy, and have lots of wordly knowledge; with this they automatically think they know of Gurmat Sprituality; but that is not true. Being Amritdhaaree and keeping that Rehit till death is more valuable than any wordly accomplishments. As I was suggesting, Genuine Nishkhaam Amritdhaarees should be 'guiding the flock' towards Guru. Once they become Amritdhaaree and keep the rehit, then they should become leaders themselves. Everyone should be participating, but Nishkhaam Genuine Amritdhaarees should be guiding. Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan, This Is What Is Needed All Over The World.

Yes even before 1699 the Sikhs of the Guru Kept their Kesh. All Baptized Sikhs of the Guru From Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Jee Kept Their Kesh, including Pooran Brahmgyaanee Dhan Dhan Bhai Mardaanaa Jee. The Construction of The Palace of Akaal Purakh Begun with Guru Nanak and was Finalized by Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Even from Guru Nanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj to Guru Gobind Rai Jee, CharanAmrit were given to Sikhs along with Gur Deekya, Gurmantar, Rehit, Etc. Guru Gobind Singh Jee Finalized the same concept, but now the Jeevanee RehitVaan Panj Pyareh were the Body Form, and Guru Gobind Rai Showed us the importance of this step by Himself Becoming Guru Gobind Singh Jee Through Amrit Of His Panj Pyareh.

Yes Maryada was also passed down orally (Seena Baseena; the Spirit of Akaal Purakh is Real. Akaal Purakh also lives through His True Sikhs, and Always Will) and also we have RehitNaamaas. Of course we have Dhan Dhan Sri GuruGranth Sahib Jee, Dhan Dhan DasamPatshah Baanee Dhan Dhan Sri DasamGranth Sahib Jee, Bhai Gurdas Jee Baanee, Bhai Nand Lal Singh Jee Baanee, Bhai Gurdas Singh Jee Baanee, RehitNaamas of Sikhs. Very simply, saving from Bajjar Paaps, Keeping Ang Sang Kakaars, NitNem, these are minimum. Keeping Kesh is a Hukam, Takhat Sri Keshgarh Sahib (Fort of Kesh) is where Guru Gobind Singh Jee Akaal Roop MahaRaaj Blessed The Khalsa For Eternity With The Final Code (Including Forever Keeping Kesh In Tact From Head to Toe for Both Singhs and Kaurs). Taksaal Is a Maryaadaa I am most in line with I think. But there are many angs of Khalsa, they also include authentic Nihungs. Again, I am inspired by more towards a Taksaal Maryadaa Point of View (I do encourage bibis to do Keertan and Always Keep Full Head Covering/Dastaar/Keski and I would love to see Kaurs doing Keertan in Sri Harmandir Sahib), but more or less, to keep things simple, I agree with a lot of Taksaal Maryada. If it was up to me, I would implement most of Taksaal Maryaadaa through Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib as the Base Maryaada for Sikhs Throughout the world.

From what I have gathered you agree that Sikhs need not go to mandirs etc, and we have a direct link Through our Gurus, you have good thoughts here. You are also correct that as Sikhs we should not be condemning hindus and how they pray, correct, sikhs do not force others to change their faith, not at all, Sikhs protect everyone, Sikhs only fight Oppression and Tyrants. So from that point of view, yes we can do Parchaar to others, and if they wish to come to Gurmat that is their Great Destiny, but we cannot force anyone, not at all, that would be going against sikhi, but at the same time, it is unfortunate that those close to the House of Guru Nanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj still find the need to go to 'others', what a shame. And Im glad you understood the reason why the issue was a concern because of their possible involvements in 'panthic affairs'. We have a very dirty web of deceitul people leading our institutions, from top to bottom, its just filthy. May Guru Sahib Do Kirpa, that the New Generation NishKhaam AmritDhaaree Gursikhs Rise and Bring Chardhi Kala To Panth and The World. The Lost Generation of 'sikhs' and The World Need Khalsa Dharma.

I hope I have not offended in any way, that is not my intention at all. And please gurdssingh, continually keep discussing Sikhi, how else are we to learn and grow to get closer and closer to The Eternal Palace of Guru Gobind Singh Jee? The intention is not at all to stop anyone with good intentions from discussing.

(Just to make things clear, I am not the kind of person I am talking about who should be taking the lead, we need all the Genuine Nishkhaam Amrithdaarees all over the world to take the lead, and do what they can where they can, even if it is just an Ardaas, sometimes thoughts lead to actions. I just want to try to light a fire under their buttoks, so they get motivated, as best I can. LOL. I want to see the Genuine Nishkhaam Amritdhaarees have control of all Sikh Institutions all over the world. That will bring such great Chardhi Kala to Not Only Khalsa Panth, but to the Entire World. The World Is Waiting For True Khalsa Dharma (Which Includes Dhan Dhan Sri DasamPatshah Baanee). Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan.)

Chardhi Kala!!

[gurdssingh]

Thanks for not answering my question directly

Answering directly - Personally I don't pray to dieties, I have never even been inside a mandir. I think it is ok for anybody to worship in what ever way they feel connects them with GOD. The only point I have been trying to make is why does it concern any one else how that guy worshiped.

inorder to cover your Hindu ways up. But you made it clear

Can I just ask how old you are please because your response is that of a juvenile. Why do I have Hindu ways? Because I thought if someone worships in a mandir it is not a great sin. Why does it affect anyone else how he prays. That was the only point I tried to make in this thread. How the debate has changed is people making judgements and coming up with conclusions without fully reading what is written.

And there is no need to play games here(claiming to be a victim). Singhs and Singhnis here at this site are very nice, they just don't like people who think they are clever coming here and trying to make a fool out of them. This includes me. And yes when people try to make a fool out of me then be prepared to get a response that has bite. But do keep reading because it will be full of important info.

I am not trying to be clever, read the posts does it not state only Amritdhari's are allowed to talk about Sikhi? I am no victim, all I asked was if I was welcome on this site, because it is a Sikh forum, and so am I entitled to have view on Sikhi? Where and how have I tried to make a fool out of anyone. Please provide evidence. Or again are your psyhic powers which told you I am a Hindu lead you to that conclusion.

First off, don't hide behind others and then add I don't know

I am not hiding behind anyone. Gurds is what everyone I know calls me, Singh is my surname. Whereas Only Five is a pseudoname.

Have you not participated in debate before? It is not called hiding behind someone it is called justifying your point of view with evidence. Read all my post again and then again slowly, taking care of punctuation the second time round. A full stop (or period in USA looks like this . ), means a sentance is stopped and a new point is beginning. I said I don't know about how Hindu's worship.

Guru Nanak Dev ji is God

Just read mool mantar you will get your answer. GOD can not take human form. That is a Hindu view that GOD can take the form of a human.

Since this has been established now expect rest of the response in the past post you wrote.

Don't get that bit please clarify.

And yes when people try to make a fool out of me then be prepared to get a response that has bite.But do keep reading because it will be full of important info.

I was so looking forward to that part but you lied, it failed to materalise there was no more bite you could have at least given abit more important info. Or were you just teasing?

[gurdssingh]

Hi,

Only five we can talk direct now. we are both viewing same thread, I have also PM'ed you. It's 1.43am so I'm going to sleep very soon. Is there anything you want to ask me? I am not Hindu, but what's with all the hate?

[Only five]

I think that you have misinterpreted my point of view. Which is, each to their own, how someone prays or conducts their personal religious affairs is upto them. Live and let live. If someone wants to pray / worship in a particular manner I don't see why that would be such a problem to anyone else. I think we should be less critical of others and concentrate on doing good deeds ourselves.

What one person does in his/her life is no one's concern, but when you come on a Sikhi site or say I represent Sikhi then everything MUST BE GURMAT that comes out of your writing, mouth, and action. And since deity worship is against SIkhi then Sikhs will condemn it. If anything you are here to push manmat on others and we Sikhs don't like that one bit. Try following your own philosophy first before telling others; live and let live. If you haven't noticed I have not once commented on amarjit chawala actions. I just said what is gurmat and what is manmat. So please keep your emotional games in your front pockets and use them for people that fall for that cr*p.

With regards to your point about Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings. I never once mentioned Guru Ji, let alone of any attitudes of disrespect. Baba Ji did disapprove of idol worship. That is a fact.

Thanks for stating the truth here.

It is all about interpretation and one's own understanding. Some may interpret the teaching's literally. However, I could be wrong - I feel, Baba Ji disapproved of the practices of the Hindu's worshiping idol's. In that people may have looked upon the idols as GOD instead of a mere symbolic representation, to aid with one's worship. Anyone can interpret anything with their personal outlook on life. I may be wrong but only the person who made the statement can elaborate further. It is how my earlier post was misunderstood, in that I support idol worship, I do NOT. Coming to their own conclusions it created further questions.

A symbolic representation? This is why I love Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it tells us everything. Below I am going to present Bhagat Naam Dev ji's Bani from Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and it will clarify this excuse of symbolic representation.

This Shabad is by Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in Raag Gujri on Pannaa 525

gUjrI sRI nwmdyv jI ky pdy Gru 1

goojaree sree naamadhaev jee kae padhae ghar 1

Goojaree, Paday Of Naam Dayv Jee, First House:

<> siqgur pRswid ]

ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

jO rwju dyih q kvn bfweI ]

ja raaj dhaehi th kavan baddaaee ||

If You gave me an empire, then what glory would be in it for me?

jO BIK mMgwvih q ikAw Git jweI ]1]

ja bheekh ma(n)gaavehi th kiaa ghatt jaaee ||1||

If You made me beg for charity, what would it take away from me? ||1||

qUM hir Bju mn myry pdu inrbwnu ]

thoo har bhaj man maerae padh nirabaan ||

Meditate and vibrate upon the Lord, O my mind, and you shall obtain the state of Nirvaanaa.

bhuir n hoie qyrw Awvn jwnu ]1] rhwau ]

bahur n hoe thaeraa aavan jaan ||1|| rehaao ||

You shall not have to come and go in reincarnation any longer. ||1||Pause||

sB qY aupweI Brm BulweI ]

sabh thai oupaaee bharam bhulaaee ||

You created all, and You lead them astray in doubt.

ijs qUM dyvih iqsih buJweI ]2]

jis thoo dhaevehi thisehi bujhaaee ||2||

They alone understand, unto whom You give understanding. ||2||

siqguru imlY q shsw jweI ]

sathigur milai th sehasaa jaaee ||

Meeting the True Guru, doubt is dispelled.

iksu hau pUjau dUjw ndir n AweI ]3]

kis ho poojo dhoojaa nadhar n aaee ||3||

Who else should I worship? I can see no other. ||3||

eykY pwQr kIjY Bwau ]

eaekai paathhar keejai bhaao ||

One stone is lovingly decorated,

dUjY pwQr DrIAY pwau ]

dhoojai paathhar dhhareeai paao ||

while another stone is walked upon.

jy Ehu dyau q Ehu BI dyvw ]

jae ouhu dhaeo th ouhu bhee dhaevaa ||

If one is a god, then the other must also be a god.

kih nwmdyau hm hir kI syvw ]4]1]

kehi naamadhaeo ham har kee saevaa ||4||1||

Says Naam Dayv, I serve the Lord. ||4||1||

In the above shabad now it is made clear a nicely shaped stone idol is no higher than a stone which we walk on. You want to worship a symbolic representation of God then how come you walk on stones and grass and the earth. Don't you know your disrespecting Waheguru by walking on him. By walking, spitting on this earth(symbolic representation) you disrespect it and then in the next minute you want to worship it. What hyprocisy coming from you. Further a diety is not God and can't give you no spiritual wisdom(read Guru Nanak Dev ji shabad on idol worship) then how can it help aid one worship God. If anything it helps you walk away from Waheguru. And in which way do I bow, stones are in every direction. If I bow in the east then my back is turned to the west stones, how can I disrespect one stone over another? What is so valuable about worshipping one stone over another?

All religions are sacred in the eyes of their followers. I did not once state Hindu religion was sacred (too it's followers it will be). I was stating Hindu's revere the statues in the mandir and as such refer to them as deities. It was only out of respect I used the same word.

The problem is you don't know how to respect Hindu religion and this drives you to believe deity worship is right. Guru Teg Bahudar Sahib ji gave the Hindu religion respect when he gave his head not so people can keep worshipping idols and it's right but because a religion can practice freely whatever they want, without inflicting their view on others. And this is how i respect every religion. So if a hindu comes on here tomorrow and says there is nothing wrong with idol(deity) worship will I say fine let him say it is fine. No, I'll show him Guru Nanak Dev ji's Bani and say the idol is lifeless. Same goes if a Hindu say it to me in person. Because Guru Nanak Dev ji did the samething. He said do whatever you want, but the correct path is not to worship idols(deities), but Waheguru through Waheguru's form Gurbani.

Again, I also believe that you should also worship ONLY GOD and nothing else. But if Amarjit Chawla feels it connects him with the almighty, is that a bad thing? . Again I may be completely wrong. All I feel is why condemn someone for worshiping. Okay I understand now it is totally not in line with the Sangats views.

This has all been answered and if Amarjit Chawla is worshiping deities and all then it is wrong because Sikhs only worship Waheguru/Guru/Gurbani/Shabad Guru/True Guru.

I hold the same sentiments. Every single creature is answerable to ONE ALMIGHTY CREATOR. Everyone should pray to one GOD, I agree.

I don't support the idea of idol worship either. Worshiping stones or any other object is pointless you should only believe in GOD. Like Kabir stated 'If GOD is a stone then I will worship a mountain'. I think you are not supposed to take it literally but understand the thinking behind the statement.

Bhai Sahib, Sant/Bhagat Kabeer ji here is saying I don't worship idols or deities indirectly to worship God. I worship Waheguru directly. Exactly what I have been telling you from the start.

If I missed anything, then please do say so and I’ll answer it.

[Only five]

Answering directly - Personally I don't pray to dieties, I have never even been inside a mandir. I think it is ok for anybody to worship in what ever way they feel connects them with GOD. The only point I have been trying to make is why does it concern any one else how that guy worshiped.

What a load of trash. You have said it's alright to worship an diety indirectly to worship God. And if you read the last post, then you'll understand why it's wrong. Or be arrogant and keep shooting trash out.

Can I just ask how old you are please because your response is that of a juvenile. Why do I have Hindu ways? Because I thought if someone worships in a mandir it is not a great sin. Why does it affect anyone else how he prays. That was the only point I tried to make in this thread. How the debate has changed is people making judgements and coming up with conclusions without fully reading what is written.

Again don't come here and expect us to accept your lies. Read my last post and watch or deity idol stone sink in the ocean.

I am not trying to be clever, read the posts does it not state only Amritdhari's are allowed to talk about Sikhi? I am no victim, all I asked was if I was welcome on this site, because it is a Sikh forum, and so am I entitled to have view on Sikhi? Where and how have I tried to make a fool out of anyone. Please provide evidence. Or again are your psyhic powers which told you I am a Hindu lead you to that conclusion.

You sure act like one and you got a proper response. Am I not allowed to show you Gurbani and show your faults. Sorry this forum is not for those that can't stand the truth the shabads present.

I am not hiding behind anyone. Gurds is what everyone I know calls me, Singh is my surname. Whereas Only Five is a pseudoname.

Have you not participated in debate before? It is not called hiding behind someone it is called justifying your point of view with evidence. Read all my post again and then again slowly, taking care of punctuation the second time round. A full stop (or period in USA looks like this . ), means a sentance is stopped and a new point is beginning. I said I don't know about how Hindu's worship.

I shake my head in completely disbelief how stupid you are. Your hiding behind Prof Sahib Singh by saying is name.

Just read mool mantar you will get your answer. GOD can not take human form. That is a Hindu view that GOD can take the form of a human.

Since you know so much tell me which part of mool mantar says God can't take human form. Tell this moorakh(me) which part it is? ANd don't shy away now.

Don't get that bit please clarify.

We have established Guru and God are the same and deity is not God, but you want to say Guru and God is not the same by mool mantar then tell this moorakh? Again don't shy away now. You want to learn, so let's start learning.

I was so looking forward to that part but you lied, it failed to materalise there was no more bite you could have at least given abit more important info. Or were you just teasing?

Words are meaningless if you can't back them up. So give this moorakh a big lesson in mool mantar and tell me which part it says Guru can't be God.

Some people just choose to learn the hard way.