Amarjit Chawala - Mehta Singing In Mandir

[Only five]

Note to mod's. Please don't close the thread down. Gurdsingh and I have solved out our difference. You won't get no more trash from me, even if it's provoked.

[gurdssingh]

Dear Gurdssingh,

In My Opinion,................................... Chardhi Kala!!

Bloom, Thank you for clearing that up, I don't think your post was up when I posted, I must of missed it as you posted before me.

Since you know so much tell me which part of mool mantar says God can't take human form. Tell this moorakh(me) which part it is? ANd don't shy away now.

Ik Onkar - there is only one GOD.

Satnam - GOD's name is truth.

Karta Purakh - The Creator. - If GOD is the creator, so in human form GOD will have a mother and father (they will be the creators of the creator), as you know you are subordinate to your parents. How can GOD be subordinate to anyone?

Nirbhoa - has no fear

Nirvarh - has NO HATE. Should we as mere human's not also practice this?

Akal Moorat - GOD is eternal, forever, immortal. All Humans die that is a fact - how can GOD die?

Ajooni - Unborn. Not re-incarnated. GOD was not born, GOD has always been. Humans are born. It's not like the cartoons where the stalk brings you the baby.

Siabhan - Self - existent. GOD is self creating, has no external support. Has no origin. Babies come from parents.

Gur Parsad - by Guru's grace.

[gurdssingh]

Bhai Sahib, Sant/Bhagat Kabeer ji here is saying I don't worship idols or deities

That is what I am trying to explian, please take your time when reading posts without jumping to conclusions. My exact words earlier:

I don't support the idea of idol worship either. Worshiping stones or any other object is pointless you should only believe in GOD. Like Kabir stated 'If GOD is a stone then I will worship a mountain'. I think you are not supposed to take it literally but understand the thinking behind the statement.

Let me elaborate for you, I made the statement so I will explain my thinking. I understand Kabir Ji said if GOD was a stone I will worship a mountain, a mountain is the biggest formation of rock on earth. So then instead of worshiping little stones I will worship the biggest stone as the biggest is normally the best. It was not meant to be taken literally, I think the meaning was it's pointless to worship anything else, only worship GOD, no other form. There is always going to be a bigger and better stone etc, mountain. Above sea it is Everest, below sea Everest is a mere dwarf compared to the height of mountains there, mankind to date does not 100% accurately know the height of the highest mountain below sea level.

[Guest Bloom]

In My Opinion,

We Are Not a Body With A Soul, We Are A Soul With A Body.

Akaal Purakh Jyot Is In Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj. The Jyot Of Akaal Purakh Is Complete and Everywhere, And The Creator of creations. The Jyot of Akaal Purakh Is Parkaash In Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj. The Jyot Of Akaal Purakh Was Passed Down From Guruu To Guruu. The Jyot Is Complete. Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj Was Always The Jyot. People Keep Thinking Of The Elements, Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj Was Jyot, And The Jyot Of Akaal Purakh Was Passed From Guruu To Guruu.

Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj = Akaal Purakh Jyot

Hirdha Vich Sabh Kaho, Sabh Gaavoh, Dhan Dhan Guruu Naanak, Tuhi Nirankaar. Keep Guruu Jyot In Mind, Guruu Shabad, Guruu Jyot, Guruu Pooran, Not Only The Elements, Within Which Also Lives Pooran Jyot. Dhan Dhan Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop Sachaa PaatShaah, Nirankaar, Akaal Purakh Jyot. Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop Sachaa PaatShaah Is Pooran Guruu, SatGuruu, Akaal Roop.

Dhan Dhan The Eternal Palace Of Guru Gobind Singh Jee Akaal Roop MahaaRaaaj.

Dhan Dhan GuruuGranth Sahib Jee, Guruu Naanak Akaal Roop MahaaRaaj.

Dhan Dhan Pooran Khalsa Dharma, The Ever Deep Infinite Ocean Of Truth.

Dhan Dhan Jeevanee RehitVaan Panj Pyareh, Amrit, And Gurmukh Rehnee For Entire Life.

Dhan Dhan BrahmGyaan Baanee In The Eternal Palace Of Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

Dhan Dhan Saving From Bajjar Paaps And Keeping Ang Sang Kakaars, Simran And Baanee.

Dhan Dhan EVERYTHING In The Eternal Palace Of Akaal Roop Guruu Naanak Sachaa PaatShaah MahaaRaaaj.

SatNaam.

[gurdssingh]

Words are meaningless if you can't back them up.

Please make your mind up. Are words meanigless if you can't back them up?

Please read your earlier post. Becuase providing evidence to your statemnt is hiding behind someone in your opinion.

First off, don't hide behind others and then add I don't know, be a man and don't play games.

I stated

Have you not participated in debate before? It is not called hiding behind someone it is called justifying your point of view with evidence.

[Azaad]

Amarjit Singh Chawla is the current Chairman of the Punjab Public Service Commission which has the equivalent status of a cabinet minister. This means he is a public figure with the salary and perks of a Punjab Government Minister.

The pictures shown in this thread try to show that Amarjit Singh Chawla is singing at a Mandir. However sources in Punjab have said that Chawla was present at the event in the capacity of his role as the Chairman of the PPSC AND did not sing.

The pictures show him doing a speech in which he addresses the people gathered there. As a Sikh, people may argue that going to a Mandir is wrong but as a Public Figure who has to interact with the public he has no real choice but to attend functions in Gurdwara's, Mandirs, Mosques, Churches etc

An example that maybe you could relate to (in the UK anyway) is of Virender Sharma whos the MP for Ealing Southall. He is also the Indian Overseas Congress President and many people see him as a Hardcore extremist Right wing Hindu.

However he attends many events at Sri Guru Singh Sabha Havelock Rd and addresses the Sangat as their local MP. And on many occassions many Guru-Ghars have honoured Sharma by giving him a Siropa and even a Sri Sahib.

In this instance aswell Chawla attended the event in his capacity as the Chairman of the PPSC. He was also honoured by the organisers by giving him "Mata ki Chadar" which is the red cloth around him in one of the pictures.

Some people obviously have tried to present reality in a different light by adding captions and trying to imply something which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Only five]

Ik Onkar - there is only one GOD.

What you got to understand is that God is able to do all things. And when you say God can't take human form then you just put a restriction on the One that can do everything. You can't put limits on the limitless. It becomes a contradiction in your own thinking. Also God can take form, but his actual state is Ik Onkar(formless state, where we don't know exactly how it is), until, Gur Parsad(Satguru/Gurbani, the form Waheguru has taken) blesses us. GurParsad is the form of Waheguru and is Waheguru.

We humans are limited to our 5 sense. And the actual state of Waheguru cannot be reached with these 5 senses, neither can our brain pick up on this state. So Satguru/Waheguru came(when I say came it does not mean from a different planet or universe, but took up a form) in form as Gurparsad/Guru Nanak Dev ji, so we can hear, listen, read, feel, and taste Gurbani. Waheguru is always here and never leaves, but when he is in the state of formless, we humans can't find or connect to that state.

Satnam - GOD's name is truth.

Karta Purakh - The Creator. - If GOD is the creator, so in human form GOD will have a mother and father (they will be the creators of the creator), as you know you are subordinate to your parents. How can GOD be subordinate to anyone?

God is the creator, but also can come into his creation(God is in his creation, he is in us). By God coming into his creation, it does not make him any lower or higher. Remember God is Truth meaning God never changes. What is true now is true in the future and will always be true forever and ever. Karta Purakh is speaking about initial point. Like the initial point we have parents, but God initial point(God doesn't have a initial point, only using this term because it's the best way to describe the Limitless) did not have parents. This is talking about God's originality point.

Nirbhoa - has no fear

Nirvarh - has NO HATE. Should we as mere human's not also practice this?

Akal Moorat - GOD is eternal, forever, immortal. All Humans die that is a fact - how can GOD die?

When God takes human for he is not bound to it. God is in us, so is he going to die with us when we die. NO! God takes human form as a medium to teach us the path of Truth. When Guru Angad Dev ji left this earth his body(which is just a medium used by God to teach) went back into the earth. It came from the earth and went back. So the question arises what was Guru Angad Dev ji? Guru Angad Dev ji was Waheguru himself, to which some call jyot of Waheguru. This body is dirt and is just used as a tool to progress in spirituality and then become that formless being by Guru's Grace.

Ajooni - Unborn. Not re-incarnated. GOD was not born, GOD has always been. Humans are born. It's not like the cartoons where the stalk brings you the baby.

Again this is talking about that initial point of God's existence. This is talking about the cycle of birth and death and God is free from it. What I explained to you above. God can take form and at the sametime is free from the law that we humans are subject too(cycle of birth and death). Humans can also be Ajooni, but only by Guru's Grace. Also unborn is a good definition of God, but it does not fit the definition of Ajooni. Again Ajooni means to be free from the cycle of birth and death, which God is, even if he takes form.

Siabhan - Self - existent. GOD is self creating, has no external support. Has no origin. Babies come from parents.

Gur Parsad - by Guru's grace.

God is Self-existent meaning God has no parents originally, like us humans. When God takes form that does not mean he is not self-existent anymore. Right now God is in a form and this form is Gurbani. Even before Guru Nanak Dev ji came to this earth, God was here on earth. Gurbani was already here, all that needed to be done was, God either gave us the power to see his formless state and then we connect with God or at the 5 senses level make Gurbani available for us, so we can learn our way to the formless(these options are only an example, so don't take them literally saying you're now limiting God).

Guru's grace, brought us the Gurbani and when you go to the Gurdwara, know that Waheguru is sitting up on the palki, it's not just Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Here is a video about this

[Only five]

Words are meaningless if you can't back them up.

Please make your mind up. Are words meanigless if you can't back them up?

Please read your earlier post. Becuase providing evidence to your statemnt is hiding behind someone in your opinion.

First off, don't hide behind others and then add I don't know, be a man and don't play games.

I stated

Have you not participated in debate before? It is not called hiding behind someone it is called justifying your point of view with evidence.

Your wrote Prof Sahb Singh and then claimed afterwards you don't know. If you don't know then how do you even know the evidence you are providing is accurate and true. This is called hiding behind a person. You got to explain to us where Prof Sahib Singh is saying God can't take human form and explain the reason behind it. Now you told me Mool Mantar shows us and have actually explained it and I have already given you a response.

Also provide me with the link where Prof Sahib Singh says God can't take human form or something close to it.

Edit. Show me where Prof Sahib Singh says you can't reach God directly. Which translate into what I said above, show me where Prof Sahib Singh says God can't take human form.

[gurdssingh]

Dear Only Five,

I have tried too and will also answer the questions you put to me. But please read through all my posts in this thread and do the courtesy of answering the questions I have raised, all of them from the start please even if they directed to the whole sangat and not just you. As you are so much more enlightend than me I would be very fortunate to have your wise take on things.

Your wrote Prof Sahb Singh and then claimed afterwards you don't know. If you don't know then how do you even know the evidence you are providing is accurate and true. This is called hiding behind a person. You got to explain to us where Prof Sahib Singh is saying God can't take human form and explain the reason behind it.

I stated

Does bani not state that wecan't go to GOD directly, we need Guru Ji. (English translation of SGGS, takenfrom Prof. Shaib Singh Ji).

That is the point with regards to Prof. Shaib Singh JI. That is supporting my view with evidence. Not hiding behind someone.

The part about I don't know is as follows;

So maybe Hindu's connect in their ownway I don't know. I don't know how Hindu's pray in mandirs.

I don't know how or what are Hindu practices. Maybe it was my mistake I should have started a new paragraph, but, as stated in earlier posts by me, a full stop indicates the end of a sentence. After a full stop a new point is then being made.

Also provide me with the link where Prof Sahib Singh says God can't take human form or something close to it.

Now your whole argument is flawed, is it not! (Please read all with out making a judgement just yet)

If you think GOD can take human form or something close to it, by the way your words not mine. Then with that logic GOD can take any form right? So are Hindhu's right? To them GOD maybe in the form of an idol, you seem to think GOD can take any form don't you? Does that not then include deities in mandirs? I have stated before I think idol worship is not right, so have you but now you are contradicting yourself. (However, I have also said if someone else wants to, so be it. No skin off my nose how or what anyone else does). Look please do forgive me I'm not psyhic like you, but as a rational person is that not a correct analysis.

Listen please try to learn the art of debate, learn to read and examine the evidence before you without having pre-misconceptions, making judgments based on your take of things. As in the responses you have posted you have totally discarded my views with comments such as thats trash or name calling. Not say describing someone as another religion is so bad but still. I know you don't beleive the statement I have made just above, but the point I am making is the following. I have taken your words, not changed them and then taken them out of context. If someone was to view and only look at this one part there is quite strong evidence with the point I have put across. Is there not?

So please before making accusations or thinking other things take your time read everything, don't focus on just one sentance. Before responding to a post and discarding the response as trash, take time to read every word, and also the previous posts. Sometimes when posting again you do not reiterate your previous points.

Please also can you provide a link or the name of the text/ book/ author where I can find out more translations and in depth analysis of the interpretations you have posted please. Genuinley I really do want to learn the meaning's of the Guru's teachings.

I seriously thought as every where I have looked Guru Nanak Dev Ji, stated he was not GOD, but the messenger of the ALMIGHTY. Please like I stated before I don't know very much I want to learn. I will also check out the you tube link. Thank you.

By the way what does the following mean?

QuoteNirbhoa - has no fear

Nirvarh - has NO HATE. Should we as mere human's not also practice this?

Is that wrong or is it funny?

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

uhh, no offense veero but, where is this thread going exactly? lol