muslims in khalistan

[jatinder]

i triple da opionins of mkhalsa. yea gupti dont disrespect KHALISTAN!!!!!!! i dont fink dat u believe in khalistan do u?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!![codeKHALISTAN

[The Eye of Truth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

You are all just here to hate. Exploit the help of Pakistan, then go against Pakistan for our land there. What the hell? We get their help then backstab them for their land? And no meat, only halal meat ? T

You say I talk about trivial things. Figure out how Akal Takat and the Guru Granth Sahib, our Immortal Guru will be one with the Government, then tackle if meat can be sold. What about the black market. What if a cow dies in Khalistan? Will we bury it? Burn it? Transport it out? What if people are starving? You can't assume that won't be the case.

There's a lot of Sikhs on Earth, what if they all decide to move to Khalistan. Where's the room to grow your food? And how can you inforce anyone from not eating meat in Khalistan? I mean the evidence is usually just eaten right?

You guys are not thinking hard enough here.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Bijla Singh]

Again, a Sikh should look for answers. You only question and not think clearly here. Eating meat is against Sikhi. Meat eaters will not be allowed in the country. They will have to stop eating meat if they want to live in Khalistan and also stop smoking and drinking. There are people in Sikhism who eat meat but if there are any groups in Sikhism who want to eat meat in Khalistan then all would go to Akaal Takhat Sahib and their representatives will sit down and have a debate based on Gurbani. group that will justify its arguments based on Gurbani will win and laws will be passed accordingly. 13 colonies did the same thing. so can we. If there is black market the government will take actions and stop it. besides, Sikhs won't run these black markets. Sikhs know how to make honest living. if other groups try to do it they will be kicked out. Again, government will do its best.

Killing of an animal will be illegal in Khalistan. Anyone doing so will be met with hard punishments. If an animal dies the government will come up with a solution. Not so hard. okay, tell me what do you think the solution should be?

Khalsa knows how to serve humanity and providing better way of life to poor and homeless will be our top priority. Khalsa always help needy and give shelter to homeless and hungry people. The government will build homes for these people, provide jobs and give enough salaries so they can live on their own. They will pay taxes which would benefit the government. Their spending will go into circulation of money and....good things happen. Take some economic courses and you will know what I mean. Then they can pay off for their homes and so on....

if the government tak

es care of these people then hardly anyone will starve to death. But even if we assume that there are still people who are hungry then what do we have Gurdwaras for? Langar of Guru Raamdas Ji at Darbar Sahib is open 24/7. many hindu workers eat there. I don't think anyone will starve to death in Khalistan. Sikhs are hard working people. They live in all countries. I have never seen any Sikh on the side of a highway asking for lift or putting his hand out begging for food or money. Sikhs came to USA and other countries and now they are millionaires and successful in every profession. They are all surviving. If they can be successful in foreign countries then why wont they in their own country?

You are very wrong. Not all Sikhs will decide to move to Khalistan. This argument is never right. How likely is this possible? What if all hindus decide to move to India? do they have room there or food? I don't think so. Everybody do not decide to do same thing at the same time. Also, Khalistan will not be limited to Punjab only. We will have real Punjab which would include Haryana and Himachal. When we win the war against indian government both parties will sit down and decide who gets what part of the land and how much. When we win we will decide it because indian government will have to give it up because losing party always does. If there is a peaceful resolution then they must agree with our conditions and we won't be asking for Punjab only. We will try to get land as much as possible. we gave 93% of our heads so statistically we must get 93% of the land but don't worry we will take what’s rightfully ours. Also don't worry about the hindus and muslims living there. When Mexico gave California to USA they dealt with same situation and solved it. So will we.

Again, Khalistan will not be limited to Punjab only so there will be plenty of room to grow food. Also, we can import more food if needed. We know how to do business.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[The Eye of Truth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

"Meat eaters will not be allowed in the country"

So will you do business with meat eaters if they are not allowed in Khalistan?

"They will have to stop eating meat if they want to live in Khalistan and also stop smoking and drinking."

All citizens of Khalistan must be Amritdhari? I took Amrit because Sikhi makes it a choice for me, not an obligation. For all those that pray for Khalistan and fight for Khalistan who aren't Amritdhari are we prepared to say, "Thanks for the fight, now you HAVE TO take Amrit to live here." ?

"There are people in Sikhism who eat meat but if there are any groups in Sikhism who want to eat meat in Khalistan then all would go to Akaal Takhat Sahib and their representatives will sit down and have a debate based on Gurbani. "

Will Khalistan be a Nation run with the Gurudwaras and the State as separate entities? Should all non-sikhs living in Punjab be excluded from these rules? Or just kicked out of their homes? The Government upholds rights and freedoms and the Gurudwaras do as well. The only difference is that the Gurudwaras can't change their rights and freedoms because they are ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The Government can change the rules. Why can't we just state simply that no animals can be slaughtered in Khalistan for food and put harsh taxes on importing meat. This way you just make it hard for people to get meat and either they will accept it and not eat meat or they will search for it through less altruistic means.

"If there is black market the government will take actions and stop it. "

The reason it is black market is

because the government sets it up to gain extra revenue but doesn't reveal that it is there.

Prohibition was enforced all across North America, and right now many narcotics and drugs are banned as well. Prohibition failed, and drugs run rampant in city streets. How can we prevent something like this from happening? There are a few who will make it their business to introduce these things into Khalistan. It is a source of revenue. Drugs and alcohol are in every country. How can Khalistan prevent it. We need something more than what every other country has at the moment because in all other countries there is always substance abuse. Even the Church-States.

"Sikhs won't run these black markets."

You can not say this with certainty. There will always be someone out there claiming to follow the Sikh path, but will act to destroy its virtues. Fundamentalism afflicts all religions. This person will consider themselves a Sikh even though we do not. It is always a possibility. If we rule it out, we will never suspect it, and this is where we are careless.

"okay, tell me what do you think the solution should be?

"

For meat? Don't restrict anyone from eating meat. That is a choice they make and Waheguru will judge them for it. As far as I'm concerned its easier and more realistic to ban meat products from being produced in Khalistan, and if it is imported, no matter what kind of meat it is, the products will face huge import taxes. The same goes for alcohol. Just make it difficult for most people to bring the stuff in and you can reduce it to a minimum. This way imports can be tracked and limits can be enforced. Never take rights away. That is unproductive and leads to tensions. The path a Sikhi follows is a path of choices. We can show them the right path, we can't force them to follow it.

"Khalsa knows how to serve humanity and providing better way of life to poor and homeless will be our top priority. Khalsa always help needy and give shelter to home

less and hungry people."

I agree with you. That is a very important facet of Khalsa. But on top of providing free homes and food to the impoverished, is it not also a very good idea to invest in education. Ultimately we would probably want all our Sikhs to learn some trade and work hard in the land of Khalsa. You see, I am certain that the government of punjab will be socialist. But if only a socialist government is closest to Akal Takat and the teachings of the Great Guru Jis (regarding political principle and the responsibilities of the state), then what does that say about political freedom. Will capitalists be allowed to spread their ideologies in Khalistan. Will the success of one over the well being of others be something of an option Khalistanis will openly accept on their voting ballets?

If the Gurudwaras always endorse the socialist government, then what is the point to voting? If we vote against the Gurudwaras then are we against the Khalsa as well, veerji? Should we not allow the Gurudwaras to vote? Or should we not vote at all and let the Gurudwaras decide. But why would they ever change their decision. One party representing Khalistan is more Absolute then different parties, right?

"[Khalistan] will build homes for these people, provide jobs and give enough salaries so they can live on their own. They will pay taxes which would benefit the government. Their spending will go into circulation of money"

If we ban meat, alcohol and other items, and if Sikhism teaches us to be wary of material possessions. What will Sikh consumers purchace? If meat products aren't allowed because they promote the death of animals, then why should leather shoes, sofas, luxury cars, certain items of clothing etc be allowed in Khalistan. The more you ban or restrict these items because of their source the more people will look to get them through evil means.

While our poor are trying to pay us back for the houses we built, the food we've given them and the salarie we hand out for

their work. Where again does our country become prosperous? We'll be in debt right at the beginning. Free food, healthcare, education, jobs etc. This can't be budgeted. The Gurudwaras purchase food or it is donated to them. Where is all this food coming from. Importing food costs money. What source of revenue will we have? Will we export animals so they can get slaughtered on other soil? Is that something Khalistan would deem alright?

"and....good things happen. Take some economic courses and you will know what I mean."

Incidently I have a Masters in Macroeconomics and Microeconomics, and I'm sorry I can't follow your reasoning. We will spend money on food, and salaries, and clothing, and shelter, and we will put severe taxes on products of animals that have been killed. Incidently, animal byproducts are huge sources of income, or the only sources of income, for many countries. We will make them pay to send food to us, and these tariffs do not promote good relations. We have very limited means of income. How will the government keep these cycle going? We will continue paying and receiving portions of tax money back to cycle through again. Very quickly we will get less and less money. This doesn't seem like a workable system unless our government controls all income. Will Khalistan be communist?

"if the government takes care of these people then hardly anyone will starve to death."

The Chinese communist dictatorship has been built to provide free healthcare, homes, education etc for every chinese person. They have taken the responsibility to take care of every Chinese in China. Likewise in Cuba. Likewise in the former USSR. You are promoting a Communist government I believe (correct me if I am wrong) but even with all these garauntees, millions of Chinese and thousands of Cubans live an impoverished life.

What income will the Gurudwaras see? How can they maintain their spiritual centres when the country is controlling everything of the country. And how can

a Communist government coincide with the Gurudwaras?

But even if we assume that there are still people who are hungry then what do we have Gurdwaras for? Langar of Guru Raamdas Ji at Darbar Sahib is open 24/7. many hindu workers eat there. I don't think anyone will starve to death in Khalistan.

That is because you do not have an economics degree and you don't understand the simple prinicples of supply and demand.

"Sikhs are hard working people. They live in all countries. I have never seen any Sikh on the side of a highway asking for lift or putting his hand out begging for food or money."

Unfortunately I have. There is a Sikh Singh who comes to the University and studies, Waheguru bless him. I spoke with him. He has not seen his family for 30 years. He was banned from coming to the University because he has Schizophrenia. Yet he is most intelligent, and teaches some of us math. His turban has been chewed by moths and we many of us from the local Sikh Youth Organization have tried to find him foster care. Don't be so quick to think that Singhs all live an easy life. We all have struggled. And many don't admit the debt they are in.

"Sikhs came to USA and other countries and now they are millionaires and successful in every profession."

I'd love to say that about Sikhs. Yet the USA and Canada are sights of severe discrimination. Although many Sikhs have the potential to be millionares and sucessful, and some after a lifetime of hard work are reaping the benefits, many are driving buses and taxis, working at convenience stores and being targeted for their beliefs. If Khalistan is something we all want, let's be as realistic as possible. No more generalizations. The more serious we are and attentive we are to acute detail, the more real Khalistan will be in the end.

"Not all Sikhs will decide to move to Khalistan."

Many Jews in Europe and Russia and Asia migrated to Israel. The Zionists were all over the world, and many came to mak

e there home in Israel. Its mundane to think that people from all over the world that support Khalistan won't endeavor to make their homes there. Sure not all people will move. But there are many who would rather be with a Sikhi population.

"Also, Khalistan will not be limited to Punjab only. We will have real Punjab which would include Haryana and Himachal. When we win the war against indian government both parties will sit down and decide who gets what part of the land and how much. When we win we will decide it because indian government will have to give it up because losing party always does."

Historically that is never true. Fighting never ends over land. Take for instance the Gaza strip.

"If there is a peaceful resolution then they must agree with our conditions and we won't be asking for Punjab only."

Peaceful resolutions are usually compromises. How much are you willing to compromise when you make demands?

"We will try to get land as much as possible. we gave 93% of our heads so statistically we must get 93% of the land but don't worry we will take what’s rightfully ours."

You don't sound moderate at all!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Bijla Singh]

"So will you do business with meat eaters if they are not allowed in Khalistan?"

Eating meat is against Sikhi and only that. Guru Gobind Singh Ji stayed with Bahadur Shah who was meat eater but that doesn't make Guru Ji bad. does it?

"All citizens of Khalistan must be Amritdhari? "

All Sikhs must be amritdhari. Others must live by rules passed by the government. if they don't like it they are welcome to leave.

"For all those that pray for Khalistan and fight for Khalistan who aren't Amritdhari are we prepared to say, "Thanks for the fight, now you HAVE TO take Amrit to live here." ?"

hmm. which other group is fighting for Khalistan? Only Sikhs are. Taking Amrit is not a choice. it is first step in Sikhi. Guru Ji said so. "Paratham Rehat Yeh Jaan, Khanday Ki Pahul Chakay" others can be taught about Sikhism. With enough knowledge about Sikhism they will take Amrit. Again, they don't have to live there.

"Will Khalistan be a Nation run with the Gurudwaras and the State as separate entities?"

Again your church state crap here. Sikhs will decide when time comes to setup a government. USA has separate church-state policy but president himself takes part in national prayer and he takes an oath putting his hand on bible. so not much of a church state separate policy. problems can be dealt with. Sikhs will decide how much church state should stay together and how much separate.

"Why can't we just state simply that no animals can be slaughtered in Khalistan for food and put harsh taxes on importing meat. "

okay. Sikhs will look at all possibilities. I did not say they wouldn't.

"How can we prevent

something like this from happening? There are a few who will make it their business to introduce these things into Khalistan. It is a source of revenue. Drugs and alcohol are in every country."

How many SIkhs did drugs and stuff in 18th century? None. They were all true Sikhs because they knew the message of our Gurus and had name of Guru Ji in their hearts all the time. people who do this kind of business lack the true knowledge about Sikhism. they can be educated. During Baba Banda Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Sikhs were not alcoholics. A strong Sikh government will be very effective. If leaders are corrupt then Panth will be corrupt. government should be a role model. You might wanna read Guru Ji's definition of Khalsa Raj. you are thinking too much materialistic stuff.

"You can not say this with certainty. There will always be someone out there claiming to follow the Sikh path, but will act to destroy its virtues. Fundamentalism afflicts all religions. This person will consider themselves a Sikh even though we do not. It is always a possibility. If we rule it out, we will never suspect it, and this is where we are careless."

Definition of a Sikh is given by Guru Ji. it doesn't matter what we think. If that person is not following the Rehat then certainly he is not a Sikh. A Sikh would never drink, smoke and eat meat. Strict laws can be passed to prevent it.

"The path a Sikhi follows is a path of choices. We can show them the right path"

it depends on what kind of choices you are talking about. you don't have any choice in what you wanna do in Sikhi. Guru Ji tells you the rehat and you do it. you can have choices in business and other stuff but when it comes to Sikhi, Panj Pyare clearly tell you what to do and what not to do. and right, we can show them the right path our Guru Ji showed us. Majority being the Sikhs and doing the right things will influence bad people to stop it. Sangat makes very good influence.

"If we vote against the Gurudwaras then

are we against the Khalsa as well, veerji? Should we not allow the Gurudwaras to vote? Or should we not vote at all and let the Gurudwaras decide. "

when did Gurdwaras ever decide in choosing the leaders or government. Sikhs in 18th century used to have Sarbat Khalsa at Akaal Takhat Sahib but only Sikhs chose their leaders. I don't see how Gurdwaras will vote and vote in what? Sikhs will have to choose their leader and they will. Sikhs will also control Gurdwaras. So Gurdwaras will not have any type of control over government because Sikhs control Gurdwaras and Sikhs run the government which will be setup by Sikhs. There will be no conflicts over power. Sikhs will be running Gurdwaras and the government.

"If we ban meat, alcohol and other items, and if Sikhism teaches us to be wary of material possessions. What will Sikh consumers purchace? If meat products aren't allowed because they promote the death of animals, then why should leather shoes, sofas, luxury cars, certain items of clothing etc be allowed in Khalistan."

why not? Sikhs won't be responsible for killing those animals. wearing leather shoes does not mean you eat meat. Also, if an animal is sick and dies then no one is responsible for the death. No one killed it so if human can get some benefit then why not. Guru Ji used to wear heavy shield made out of rhino's skin.

"The more you ban or restrict these items because of their source the more people will look to get them through evil means. "

Sikhs turning evil? highly impossible. again, we can educate. can't we?

"While our poor are trying to pay us back for the houses we built, the food we've given them and the salarie we hand out for their work. Where again does our country become prosperous? We'll be in debt right at the beginning. "

their work will benefit the government. won't it? take another look at New Deal in America. Their work will benefit the country. The government will manage the spending and budget.

Y

ou say you have master degree but surprisingly you still think Sikhs cannot run a stable government. Sikhs will come up with solutions. We are smart people. Do you really think they are gonna do whatever I am writing? I maybe wrong but certainly highly educated Sikhs will setup the government. They will know what to do.

"What income will the Gurudwaras see? How can they maintain their spiritual centres when the country is controlling everything of the country. And how can a Communist government coincide with the Gurudwaras?"

Gurdwaras needs income? why? for what reasons? People donate. Government will establish organizations to do parchaar. Khalistani government wont be communist. A country doing good things for its own people does not make it a communist. Sometimes government needs to step in to make things better. We can't just sit back and wait for economy to come back up. Sikhs will decide the power of state and federal government. Again, Gurdwaras will be controlled by Sikhs and country will be controlled by Sikhs. So sikhs controlling everything. oh my god, will that make us communists?

"That is because you do not have an economics degree and you don't understand the simple prinicples of supply and demand. "

yes but you have a degree and even then you are acting like a sissy girl and rather than looking for solutions you are coming here asking questions. Sikhs don't say "I have this question. I am not gonna look for answer so lets forget about setting up the government and live like slaves." We have strong will to survive and we will do everything to make the system work. Just so you know we will have Sikh economists lot smarter than you.

"Unfortunately I have. There is a Sikh Singh who comes to the University and studies, Waheguru bless him. I spoke with him. He has not seen his family for 30 years. He was banned from coming to the University because he has Schizophrenia. Yet he is most intelligent, and teaches some of us math. His turban has been chewed by mo

ths and we many of us from the local Sikh Youth Organization have tried to find him foster care. "

yeah Guru Ji bless him but one out of how many? How many Sikhs are starving to death?

"Don't be so quick to think that Singhs all live an easy life. We all have struggled. And many don't admit the debt they are in."

Sikh's life is full of struggles. Life is tough but you gotta learn how to survive. We need Khalistan to survive. We want our future generations to learn about Sikhi not some hindi and english songs.

“I'd love to say that about Sikhs. Yet the USA and Canada are sights of severe discrimination."

which is exactly why we need Khalistan. No discrimination. but that does not mean Sikhs are not successful.

"some after a lifetime of hard work are reaping the benefits, many are driving buses and taxis, working at convenience stores and being targeted for their beliefs. "

still surviving. aren't they? we are being targeted which has made us determined that in order to live in this world we have to have our home Khalistan.

"Many Jews in Europe and Russia and Asia migrated to Israel. The Zionists were all over the world, and many came to make there home in Israel. Its mundane to think that people from all over the world that support Khalistan won't endeavor to make their homes there. Sure not all people will move. But there are many who would rather be with a Sikhi population."

of course not all will move especially the rich ones and those who have sikh names and yet don't know anything about Sikhism. There are more people in Sikhism who know nothing about Sikhism than those who do. Only people who want Khalistan and live as Sikhs will move. People who don't like to see turbaned Sikhs surely will not move.

"Historically that is never true. Fighting never ends over land."

we need enough land to secure ourselves. We will win the war, india will surrender and we will take our land.

"Peaceful resoluti

ons are usually compromises. How much are you willing to compromise when you make demands?"

demands: everything we ruled up until 1849 is ours. all compromises after that.

"You don't sound moderate at all! "

i don't care what you think. We will take what's rightfully ours.

I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you save your church-state and economic questions until we are ready to setup a government. Will be much better then and beneficial. will help us to setup a better government. Until then you can start writing the agenda and policies which would help Sikhs to lay a strong foundation of Khalistan. does that not sound good? if you are too smart and no one is able to answer your questions then you must be smart enough to come up with solutions of the problems many countries are facing now. so adios my friend. Save your questions until then.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[10th regiment]

i still dont think any of u understand the reality of punjab at the moment, or very few of u do

meat eating drinking etc cannot be stopped only limited

look at 'khalsa raj' under ranjit singh, he was drug addict himself, throughout history, punjabis have been drunkards and druggies, face facts

anyway, i was talking about muslim punjabis in india in punjab at the moment, there are not many, but in terms of population they are growing, so i was just saying it would be advisable for khalistanis to get their vote/support

im talking practical things, not theory, we havent got khalistanyet so we shoudl explore all ways of getting it, and muslims are a growing population in punjab so we need their vote

guru ji had muslim friends im sure he didnt stop them from eating halal meat

man u people go proper off topic

[idiotInside]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I agree with 10th Regiment and Eye here. Vices amongst people are difficult to control. It is foolhardy to assume that every Sikh is without a bad habit. But I have faith that the Government/Governing Council from Akal Takhat will be able to take each case seriously. We can continue looking for solutions by learning more about laws against dangerous products in other countries.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Yasmin]

I think it would be good for the Sikh and Muslim community in that area to work together. Although I'm perfectly aware there are many differences in our two religions there are also similarities and I think for both to work together and get on together would be a good way forward.

Muslims have more in common with Sikhs than Hindu's in any case, so although I wouldnt like to say who the Muslim communities over there would support, I think it would make sense for them to support the Sikh community.

[Guest mehtab]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Just a thought : If meat isn't allowed in Khalistan, how would our fellow Muslim brothers and sisters celebrate bakreed? Correct me if I am wrong, but one of my Muslim friends once remarked that a Muslim has to consume meat once in a while.

Thanks and bhul chukk maaf

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

ps : i must agree that Punjabi Muslims (Pakistani Punjabis) respect the Gurus a lot more than most north Indian Hindus, and are very much friendly towards Sikhs (both of these are my own personal experiences).

[Guest Jahan]

The Muslim vote in Punjab state is insignificant since they are only a tiny percentage of the population. The overwhelming majority of Punjabi Muslims living in East Punjab moved (or fled) to Pakistan after the partition. Id think it would be more likely that they will take a neutral stance in any situation as they have done in the past. This is in the best interests of their community and will prevent an angry backlash against them should they find they had picked the 'wrong' side...

ps : i must agree that Punjabi Muslims (Pakistani Punjabis) respect the Gurus a lot more than most north Indian Hindus, and are very much friendly towards Sikhs (both of these are my own personal experiences).

This has been the case in my experience also. Although it is widely accepted (in Pakistan) that there are generally two types of 'Punjabi Muslim', those who were native to West Punjab at the time of partition and those who migrated from East Punjab.

West Punjabis in general are of a more liberal and relaxed attitude when it comes to India, Sikhs, 'Punjabiyat' etc but the East Punjabis who migrated are among the most hardened supporters of Pakistan.

This is even evident in the Pakistani media. Take for example the 'Nawa-i-Waqt Group'. Mostly run by East Punjabis and is notorious for its strong anti-India st

ance. I have read on numerous occasions on the English version cheap-shots and disrespectful language used against Sikhs.

They are also known to have written articles on 'Khalistani movement'. Of course, they care nothing for Sikhs but will do anything to see India humiliated or dismantled.

Anyone here who can read and understand Urdu id be really thankful if you could translate the following article titled "Azad Sikh Riyasat Khalistan di Yatra" from the Pakistani 'Nawa-i-Waqt Group':

http://www.nawaiwaqtgroup.com/urdu/daily/m...04/30/index.htm

Regards,