Waheguru Vs Kirtam Names

[mohinder pal]

Shorter the Gurmantar, More Quickly Seeker gets Success(Sidh of the Mantar.

[REDRUM]

Only 5 this is what I meant that both forms are same

Nirankaar Aakaar Api Nirgun Sargun Ek, Ekahi Ek Bakhanno, Nanak Ek Anek

Anyway I know your trying to express your views but do you know what sargun worship of akal purakh is? (I bet you do it all the time)

If you haven't then why debate on something you don't know much about. I know a saint and many bhagats that did worship of sargun saroop and their names are well known to the panth to this day!

Also when the gurus and avtars came to the world everyone bowed to them and that is sargun worship as well. Doing chaur sahib, doing mata tekna to sri guru granth sahib to sri guru granth sahib is sargun worship.

Don't get put of between sargun and nirgun worship both are same. One who gets gian on sargun saroop will get gian eventually on nirgun saroop. Also if one gets gian on nirgun saroop then 1 will get gian on sargun saroop eventually as well.

<edited : personal attacks and attacks on jathebandis won't be tolerated here>

I am very fortunate to meet a person that whatever he says comes true, when I am with them my 5 evils get destroyed

and with his help has attached me to sri guru granth sahib. Please read the 13th astpadhi of sukhmani sahib.

Also a brahmgiani can give naam. As they have authority to do so....

As their avasta is:

har harjan dohi ik he bib bechar kish nahe

Jal te upaj tarang jeho jal he bike samai

Like the water merges in to the ocean how can you tell them apart.

Tui mui mui tui antar kesa

I am you and you are me what difference is there

waheguru mera me waheguru da

I am yours, your mine

Mohinder pal

"Shorter the Gurmantar, More Quickly Seeker gets Success(Sidh of the Mantar. "

I agree with you completely.

[mohinder pal]

Real Understanding/Darshan/View of SggSji is only with Saints,Mahapursh,Brhamgyanis; not with the people like me who just listen to Parchaars,EducationatiONAL books,Gurmat Parchaar and then debate over Sargun and Nirgun.

Whenever seeker recieves Darshan, it is the Darshan of Sargun Sarrop not Nirgun Saroop(all bhagats in SGGSji recieved Sargun Saroop darshan of Akal not Nirgun). Just Imagine How can the seeker worship the Nirgun when He has not seen the Nirgun Sarrop?????? that is why in Older times Sant Mahapursh used to give Gur Mantar and then specific way of Concentrating the Mind--i.e. either on Gur Shabad, Focus on ur Isht, Focus on Particular Picture of Guru(Bcz Guru is Omni Present).

[REDRUM]

Also bhai kaneiya he saw guru gobind singh ji everywhere even when giving water to the muslim soliders he saw guru gobind singh ji. His avasta was also based on sargun saroop as guru ji was the sargun form of waheguru.

"Real Understanding/Darshan/View of SggSji is only with Saints,Mahapursh,Brhamgyanis; not with the people like me who just listen to Parchaars,EducationatiONAL books,Gurmat Parchaar and then debate over Sargun and Nirgun."

This is so true..... What I try to say is what I've listened from vichaars from sants as well lol But thing is I know a person who has got atam gian but they will never tell anyone or give parchaar as they say that it is not their duty even though they could...... But your right I should be doing simran and obtaining gian from waheguru first before I talk about sargun and nirgun.. My bad

[Only five]

Whenever seeker recieves Darshan, it is the Darshan of Sargun Sarrop not Nirgun Saroop(all bhagats in SGGSji recieved Sargun Saroop darshan of Akal not Nirgun). Just Imagine How can the seeker worship the Nirgun when He has not seen the Nirgun Sarrop?????? that is why in Older times Sant Mahapursh used to give Gur Mantar and then specific way of Concentrating the Mind--i.e. either on Gur Shabad, Focus on ur Isht, Focus on Particular Picture of Guru(Bcz Guru is Omni Present).

Can you show me where it say this, that Bhagats only recieved Sargun Saroop? We have Mool Mantar it is describing the Nirgun Saroop of Waheguru. Surely Sargun Saroop is an aim, but we all know Sargun came from Nirgun so we aim for the Formless Lord. Shabad Guru leads us to the Nirgun Saroop. You might believe Shabad Guru is Sargun Saroop only, but no it is beyond it and is in the Nirgun Saroop.

Focusing on images(as in human form) of the Guru and focusing on the Shabad Guru in the written form only helps to a certain point. If it is not understood that Waheguru is formless then it can become a mental block.

[GPS]

Sikhs are believers of shabad Guru.They do not believe in sargun worship.