I Want Peoples Views - Should There Be A Khalistan Or Not?

[VanHelsingh]

Any newly-formed country that has a desire to see it's first anniversary needs an intelligence service. All the best will in the world will not (for example) prevent a terrorist attack arranged by India but blamed on Pakistan in order to stir trouble between Khalistan and it's Islamic neighbour.

Even the Israelis understand this and they have - possibly - the most ruthless and efficient intelligence service in the world. They're not resting on their laurels, confident that the Bible says they're are God's "Chosen People" and nobody will touch them.

But then I'm sure those leaders in-charge of a potential Khalistan won't lock themselves away in Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, hoping Waheguru will do everything for them. If that means putting a few willing monay in the firing line for the covert protection of Khalistan, I'm sure there'll be some eager candidates.

Logistics-wise, how does one produce a blueprint for the creation of a sovereign nation? I'm curious as to what the first bullet-point on a theoretical list would be.

[dalsingh101]

People need to stop ducking the fact that a theoretical Khalistan would (like EVERY other society) contain a population with a wide breadth of different personalities and attitudes. Including the full spectrum between hardcore religious to the lax.

What is the point of people talking about statehood, without having a realistic notion of what this entails? The problem with certain K'stanis is that some of them want a nation state but are absolutely clueless and don't even think forward to what this might actually involve in terms of governing millions of people who aren't clones of each other.

It's better some knotty areas get thrashed out in debate now, rather than later.

[S1ngh]

Yeah this badal fellow also appointed a few people into a few seats somewhere in Amritsar...

No doubt, Badal does control SGPC but it is totally fair game. The reason i said fair is because they go thru very simple and democratic process. All comes to the election process and all votes does goes to Akali party selected leaders.

There are 190 Seats in SGPC house. Out of 170 are elected members. 15 are nominated members and than 5 jathedars of panj takhts. They all have voting power when it comes to pass mega 600-crore annual budget and so on.. Jathedars sahibans do not have voting rights. Makkar got 130+ votes last time and that is huge sweeping majority.

Now, what is the process of voting? Only puran sikh (keshadhari) can vote for SGPC members and mostly are from rural areas. There is simple ballot to vote for anyone who stand for SGPC member election. The whole process is being monitored by different group called Sikh Judicial Commission who also monitor wrongdoings of SGPC and others.

It is the people who are loyal to badal. It is the people who elect these makkar and co to sgpc. It is the people of punjab who gives power to badal to make decision on whom to elect for sgpc presidentship.

If we seriously want to change the work style in amritsar or somewhere in amritsar then run/support strong campaign in punjab for SGPC members. Get majority of panthic minded ppl stand for 170 positions. If you have majority members in sgpc body then there is no power of badal to touch anyone in amritsar sahib that including jathedar sahibs.

[VanHelsingh]

For example, if Britain invited the president of Khalistan to a Remembrance service in London, in honour of the dead armed forces of WW1 and WW2 (many of which were Sikhs), would Khalistan boycott the event because the service would be taking place in a church, ergo the president would be required to sing a hymn or two? If not sing a hymn, then is the act of being in a church acceptable for a Sikh? OR would we boycott the service because of the actions of the British in Jaliawale Bagh, or prior to that when they annexed Panjab after the Sikh Raaj?

What if - behind the scenes - the British insisted that if Khalistan wanted weapons from Britain (and intelligence sharing amongst other "inducements") - the Khalistani president would HAVE to turn up? What would we do? Boycott the service because of the religious conotations, meaning bad P.R. for Sikhs and Khalistan OR in order to secure those secret arm deals, do what we're requested?

If Britain were the only nation willing to provide us with heavy weaponary (and we refused to co-operate), we'd be sitting ducks because all we had to protect ourselves with were AK-47s. We'd miss out on the surface-to-air missiles, tanks, etc.

Would we tell the British to go stuff themselves? Would that be a wise move especially when they were displaying such friendly vibes towards us? If in the first year of the formation of Khalistan, Pakistan tried their luck by attacking our nation who would we turn to for assistance? The British would say "We just wanted you to turn up to a service but you threw that back in our face. You're on your own".

So many issues that need to discussed and identified.

[Singh559]

No doubt, Badal does control SGPC but it is totally fair game. The reason i said fair is because they go thru very simple and democratic process. All comes to the election process and all votes does goes to Akali party selected leaders.

There are 190 Seats in SGPC house. Out of 170 are elected members. 15 are nominated members and than 5 jathedars of panj takhts. They all have voting power when it comes to pass mega 600-crore annual budget and so on.. Jathedars sahibans do not have voting rights. Makkar got 130+ votes last time and that is huge sweeping majority.

Now, what is the process of voting? Only puran sikh (keshadhari) can vote for SGPC members and mostly are from rural areas. There is simple ballot to vote for anyone who stand for SGPC member election. The whole process is being monitored by different group called Sikh Judicial Commission who also monitor wrongdoings of SGPC and others.

It is the people who are loyal to badal. It is the people who elect these makkar and co to sgpc. It is the people of punjab who gives power to badal to make decision on whom to elect for sgpc presidentship.

If we seriously want to change the work style in amritsar or somewhere in amritsar then run/support strong campaign in punjab for SGPC members. Get majority of panthic minded ppl stand for 170 positions. If you have majority members in sgpc body then there is no power of badal to touch anyone in amritsar sahib that including jathedar sahibs.

I agree we need to rally support for Panthic Singhs/Singhnian to enter into SGPC but with Badal influence it would be near impossible, thus we need to remove the badal and corrupt leaders asap and expose anyone who attempts to hurt Sikhi..

[gurdssingh]

I have a couple of questions, such as what would the borders be? On some websites its states Punjab pre 1847 i.e as it was during maharaja Ranjit Singhs raj, some say pre partition including Haryana, Himachal etc. But facts are Haryana was added to Punjab state after the 1857 mutiny. Also during the Sarkar Khalsa Ji / Lahore durbar, not all of even modern 2011 Punjab was under its soveriegnty. The Malwa sardars wanted British protection. When Sikhs were ruling and had a nation, not all Sikhs wanted to be part of that nation. The misl sardars actually wanted to ensure there interests and had treaties made where the boundry of the Sikh kingdom was the Sutlej river.

Another question is what about non Sikhs in Punjab. Punjab is roughly high 60 % Sikh background, (all denominations, monah, keshdahari, amritdhari), what about the non Sikhs, what about them, even though they have been for generations in Punjab will they have a voice?

I heard a katha which said due to the nawab of Malerkotla's vocal disgust of the torture and murder / shaheedi of the young shaibzadeh in Sirhind, Guru ji gave a bachan that muslims from Malerkotla will never face discrimnation or racial hatered due to being muslim, e.g even in partition Malerkotlas muslims were not affected. Go there even today it is unlike any other Indian Punjab city, there are loads of muslims there, very high visual presence.

As if in Khalistan only certain people who fit a criteria are allowed in the top postions to govern the country does that not make us oppressors against miniorites, which is clearly forbidden, Sikhs are meant to uphold justice and help the oppressed against such things not act superior, instead they should encourage a level playing field for all.

I am not against a Sikh nation (Khalistan), but the questions I ask are legitamate.

[Only five]

Many of these scenarios that are being presented here are very weak in arguement. They are one sided and direct a person away from a Khalsa State. When it's said, that it will be a Khalsa state then the teachinges on how to run the state will not go against Gurmat. A secular body that is created to run the country will not go against the Sri Akal Takht Sahib. As soon as some ignorant people try to or do achieve to implement manmat practices, then the State will fail. If the state even gets an ounce of power and it started with manmat practices, then the state will fail no matter what.

Any one that started something in Akal Purakhs name, but implemented manmat practices, their life and their conquered land was abolished. Anyone that reads Gurbani knows when Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj is not on your side, then everything fails.

[Singh559]

na hindi na hindu na hindustan, le ke rahangai khalistan.

Khalistan will come running to the GurSikhs, we need to focus on ourselves and fix ourselves and everything, and i mean everything will fall in place.

[VanHelsingh]

Khalistan will come running to the GurSikhs, we need to focus on ourselves and fix ourselves and everything, and i mean everything will fall in place.

Hopefully you're right. There's so much that is wrong at the moment that it's difficult to believe whether we will ever be victorious.

The Mohali Turban 'incident' has shaken me up quite a bit, and made me realise how much we really do need our own homeland. Although it may seem I am pessimistic, I just hope those who have the fortune of making history and securing Khalistan, manage to think everything through and live up to the name of Khalistan. Realistically, those running the various institutions in Panjab will be the inheritors of Khalistan - I hope better people emerge when the time comes.

I guess a bit of faith is needed rather than cold over-analysis.

[Singh559]

Hopefully you're right. There's so much that is wrong at the moment that it's difficult to believe whether we will ever be victorious.

It will happen:

Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain - Guru Gobind Singh Ji

"Stop these mockeries and do not talk, but live. Do not be anxious to save Sikhism. Rest assured that Sikhism can take care of itself. Your only anxiety should be to save yourself." Bhagat Puran Singh Ji

With GurSikhs like Sant Baba Jarnail SIngh ji Bhindranwale Khalsa in our time, there is no way hope is lost. Just have faith and keep sabbar, truth always rises.