Basic Fact Of Sikhee

[harsharan000]

Kaam is one of the 5 deadliest enemies ( the others are: krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar ..... ninda, jalan, chuglee, jhoot, lalach, laziness...etc) that attack the soul without mercy. The mind uses them as tools to keep the soul imprisoned, apart from many other ways, along with Maya. The soul is being harrased, since it left it`s Father`s (Satnam ) house (Sach Khand ). It´s condition is very dreadfull, without any shore or anchor to lean on, there is no thaao. Constantly roaming in the wheel of Chaurasee Ka Chakar. And for that, we alone are to be blamed, we do not listen nor pay attention to the real teachings of our Gurus`.

When our first Guru came on earth; orthodox practices were common in those days, would be better said, even before.....up to nowdays.

While they are, they remove our agyanta, our prejudices, our manmukhta, our outer or external practices, which are futile in results, and are just like smoke, no reality in it, they ( our Gurus) show us the realty, by attaching us to their Nij Roop, Nam or Shabad.

Since they left us, we have been manipulated, our reasoning power has been extirpated, by the so board members, the Truth they made us know, has been darkened with their poisnous behaviour, they have spread poison everywhere and in almost all.

These members have politizied the real sikhee, but we understanding the teachings of the Gurus`, it seems that, all is the fantasy of these leaders, I personally do not believe what they say, that our Patshah Guru Gobind Singh said.

We can see it by ourselves, reading and understanding the Bani of the previous Gurus`, is simialr, there are no such external practices, politics, rules, regulations, they taught that Nam and Shabd is everything. Nobody can take the place of a real Satguru. After all, these leaders, at most what can they offer is only what thay have, and they may have everything, but not the love and essence of Nam, and this void has to be filled with something, so they fill it with symbols, and external practices.

It is a pity, that Sikhee is such a noble, and a beautiful summary of some of Wahiguru`s virtues, grace, daya, meher, inmensity, truth, bakshish.... and that all this, has been reduced and polluted, between the four walls of rules and regulations, then zaat, paat, land, rituals, rites, dogmas...etc.

This is the pitiful and hopeless situation of mankind in general, but here we refer to our sikh brothers and sisters, with whom we are concerned. There is nothing wrong in following the customs and traditions in the dharam whre one is born, but we should be not so blinded with them, that we loose the truth out of our sight. I know, many will be hating me, when reading this, but my love for Wahiguru, and for the truth, and then for all the mankind, which has the ray of divinity in each individual, has propelled me in writing this, all the four corners of the existence has the right in knowing the realty of Wahiguru Akal Purukh in the real measure.

And all this, what has been said, is based just from the bani, for that purpose some lines are been given as proofs, of that truth, which our Gurus showered on the mankind equally on everybody without any distinctions:

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕਿਆ ਸੁਆਉ ॥ bin sathigur naao n paaeeai bin naavai kiaa suaao || Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all?

ਆਇ ਗਇਆ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਣਾ ਜਿਉ ਸੁੰਞੈ ਘਰਿ ਕਾਉ ॥੩॥ aae gaeiaa pashhuthaavanaa jio sunnjai ghar kaao ||3|| People come and go, regretting and repenting, like crows in a deserted house. ||3|

ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜਿਉ ਕਲਰ ਕੀ ਭੀਤਿ ॥ bin naavai dhukh dhaehuree jio kalar kee bheeth || Without the Name, the body suffers in pain; it crumbles like a wall of sand.

ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨ ਚੀਤਿ ॥ thab lag mehal n paaeeai jab lag saach n cheeth || As long as Truth does not enter into the consciousness, the Mansion of the Lord's Presence is not found.

ਸਬਦਿ ਰਪੈ ਘਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ਪਦੁ ਨੀਤਿ ॥੪॥ sabadh rapai ghar paaeeai nirabaanee padh neeth ||4|| Attuned to the Shabad, we enter our home, and obtain the Eternal State of Nirvaanaa. ||4|| ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਸੋ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਦੂਜੀ ਵਾਰ ॥ sabadh marai so mar rehai fir marai n dhoojee vaar || One who dies in the Shabad is beyond death, and shall never die again.

ਸਬਦੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ sabadhai hee thae paaeeai har naamae lagai piaar || Through the Shabad, we find Him, and embrace love for the Name of the Lord. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਜਗੁ ਭੂਲਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰ ॥੭॥ bin sabadhai jag bhoolaa firai mar janamai vaaro vaar ||7|| Without the Shabad, the world is deceived; it dies and is reborn, over and over again. ||7

ਮਨ ਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਜਪਹੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ man rae raam japahu sukh hoe || O mind, meditate on the Lord, and find peace.

ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੈ ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਸੰਤਾਇ ॥ sabadh pashhaanai rav rehai naa this kaal santhaae || One who recognizes the Shabad merges into it, and is not afflicted by death.

aapay nirmal pooj karaa-ay gur sabdee thaa-ay paa-ee. ||9||

The Immaculate Lord Himself inspires worship of Him; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it is accepted and approved. ||9||

poojaa karahi par biDh nahee jaaneh doojai bhaa-ay mal laa-ee. ||10||

Those who worship Him, but do not know the Way, are polluted with the love of duality. ||10||

jin antar sabad aap pachhaaneh gat mit tin hee paa-ee. ||15||

Those who have the Shabad deep within, understand themselves; they find the way of salvation. ||15||

ayhu manoo-aa sunn samaaDh lagaavai jotee jot milaa-ee. ||16||

Their minds enter into the deepest state of Samaadhi, and their light is absorbed into the Light. ||16||

sun sun gurmukh naam vakaaneh satsangat maylaa-ee. ||17||

The Gurmukhs listen constantly to the Naam, and chant it in the True Congregation. ||17||

saachee banee sach vakhaanai sach naam liv laa-ee. ||19||

True are their words; they speak only the Truth; they lovingly focus on the True Name. ||19||

saachee banee sach vakhaanai sach naam liv laa-ee. ||19||

True are their words; they speak only the Truth; they lovingly focus on the True Name. ||19||

gur poorai har naam dirhaa-i-aa har nihchal har Dhan palai jee-o. ||2||

The Perfect Guru has implanted the Lord's Name within me. I have the Imperishable Treasure of the Lord in my lap. ||2||

har jee-o kirpaa karahu gur maylhu jan naanak har Dhan palai jee-o. ||4||1||

O Dear Lord, please show Mercy to me, that I may meet the Guru. Servant Nanak gathers the Wealth of the Lord's Name in his lap. ||4||1||

109

Page 43 Line 15 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

dhhandhhaa sabh jalaae kai gur naam dheeaa sach suaao ||

All my evil pursuits have been burnt away; the Guru has blessed me with the Naam, the true object of life.

118

Page 46 Line 8 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

sach mehal ghar paaeiaa gur kaa sabadh pashhaan ||3||

I have obtained my home in the True Mansion of His Presence, realizing the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||3||

119

Page 46 Line 10 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

pooraa sathigur jae milai paaeeai sabadh nidhhaan ||

If we meet the Perfect True Guru, we obtain the Treasure of the Shabad.

125

Page 50 Line 2 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

naam nidhhaan sathigur dheeaa sukh naanak man mehi mandd ||4||20||90||

The True Guru has bestowed the Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. O Nanak, the mind is filled with peace. ||4||20||90||

128

Page 51 Line 7 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

sanch har dhhan pooj sathigur shhodd sagal vikaar ||

Gather in the Wealth of the Lord, worship the True Guru, and give up all your corrupt ways.

147

Page 58 Line 3 Raag Sriraag: Guru Nanak Dev

bin sathigur naao n paaeeai bin naavai kiaa suaao ||

Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all?

These are just few sample lines from the bani, as we can see only importance of WAHIGURU as objective, through Nam and Shabad are written on each parragraph, on each page, and then too we are so manmukhs that we fail to see the truth in them.

Mind is always fond of sensual pleasures, so unless we give it the taste, of something superior and everlasting taste, like Nam....it will never give up it`s bad habits. So Nam is the truth which our Gurus taught as remedy for fighting the mind and these vices, and also Nam is the only vehicle for returning our true real Home Sach Khand, anything apart from this is wasting our precious time.

[Only five]

Since they left us, we have been manipulated, our reasoning power has been extirpated, by the so board members, the Truth they made us know, has been darkened with their poisnous behaviour, they have spread poison everywhere and in almost all.

What poison according to you did the board members put upon the Sikhs?

These members have politizied the real sikhee, but we understanding the teachings of the Gurus`, it seems that, all is the fantasy of these leaders, I personally do not believe what they say, that our Patshah Guru Gobind Singh said.

What don't you believe Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said?

We can see it by ourselves, reading and understanding the Bani of the previous Gurus`, is simialr, there are no such external practices, politics, rules, regulations, they taught that Nam and Shabd is everything. Nobody can take the place of a real Satguru. After all, these leaders, at most what can they offer is only what thay have, and they may have everything, but not the love and essence of Nam, and this void has to be filled with something, so they fill it with symbols, and external practices.

What external practices, politics, rules, and regulations are you refering too?

It is a pity, that Sikhee is such a noble, and a beautiful summary of some of Wahiguru`s virtues, grace, daya, meher, inmensity, truth, bakshish.... and that all this, has been reduced and polluted, between the four walls of rules and regulations, then zaat, paat, land, rituals, rites, dogmas...etc.

You need to be more specific here.

This is the pitiful and hopeless situation of mankind in general, but here we refer to our sikh brothers and sisters, with whom we are concerned. There is nothing wrong in following the customs and traditions in the dharam whre one is born, but we should be not so blinded with them, that we loose the truth out of our sight. I know, many will be hating me, when reading this, but my love for Wahiguru, and for the truth, and then for all the mankind, which has the ray of divinity in each individual, has propelled me in writing this, all the four corners of the existence has the right in knowing the realty of Wahiguru Akal Purukh in the real measure.

Maybe it's your ego making you writing against what you refer to as external practices of Sikhi and what you believe Satguru did not say, but according to you, some leaders made it up? Be more specific so people can actually understand what your refering too.

[harsharan000]

Dear brothers, forgive me if I have hurt anybody, but the things I see that, when all the teachings of our beloved Gurus have been reduced to outer practices and rules and do`s and don´ts, it makes me very sad. I am accused of having ego.... What ego can I have? It is only pity for my fellow men and women, that when I see how we waste our lives in symbols. Whom do we want to show our behaviour and character? Does the almighty Wahiguru needs to be reminded at all times with our outer observacnes and mannerisms? He is inside us, whatsoever sewa or any other parctices we do, is just for Him....then, if He is inside us, why all these external things? According to the teachings of our Gurus, only love for Him is needed, and then apart from Nam Bhakti, as per each line and page in the bani, everything is useless. Wahiguru is a supreme spiritual being, which can be realized only by arising our consciousness into the spiritual realms, and that is only through Nam Simran. Why is this so? Because, Nam is Maha Chetan force, and by only diving into it, can we become pure and fit to be in His presence, not by attaching ourselves to material thinghs which are inert, which can give us no true gyan or knowledge of Him. And poison means, everything which takes us away from Him. Only He and His Nam are Sat, are everlasting. We can ask ourselves, each and everyone, this follwing question: am I doing this real thing of Nam Simran or not? If yes, then we are blessed, if not then we are away from the path which leads us to Him.

If the Sun has no nationality, what nationality has the ray which cometh from Him? If the sea has no nationality, what nationality has a simple drop going to have?

If the Lord has no nationality, what nationality has the soul got then? We give a lot of importance to the physicall and material things, forgetting the real message of our Gurus, this is what is wrong.... They taught us only Wahiguru and His bhakti, through Nam Simran.

[Only five]

Dear brothers, forgive me if I have hurt anybody, but the things I see that, when all the teachings of our beloved Gurus have been reduced to outer practices and rules and do`s and don´ts, it makes me very sad.

Dear brother you are taking what I am writing to you offensively. I am asking you to clarify yourself when you say outer practices and rules etc....among other things I asked you to clarify.

I am accused of having ego.... What ego can I have? It is only pity for my fellow men and women, that when I see how we waste our lives in symbols.

There it is again. Refering to symbols, but what symbols do you speak of. And the ego part started off by saying maybe and since your not clarifying yourself, then it will stay at maybe. Your pity can also be ignorance, which translates into ego. So clarify yourself here. Discussion forums are made for discussions and not for vague post that are meant to hurt a religions institutions.

[harsharan000]

What more clarifications can I give? As I have said several times, the only important thing is Wahiguru and the way to realize Him. What is the importance of any institution if it was not for Wahiguru? Each place, each second only He is to be in our minds. Me, you,he, she or they is not important at all. Only He, above everything.

Why is it not seen, at what I am pointing at? All the beautifull lines from the bani above mentioned....but that is not commented, if attention was paid to what is written in it , there would be no misunderstandings at all. I am not saying anything new of myself, just what is written in the bani, the teachings of our Gurus. That apart from Wahiguru,and love and devotion for Him, anything else, is untruth, is transient and perishable.Customs, traditions and material ornaments are o.k on a worldly level, but have nothing to do in ruhaniyat. They are inert, no consciousness in them, so we should not think, that in doing them, brings us closer to Wahiguru. Wahiguru is only to be realized by meditating on His trascendental form,by Nam Simran.... and this is what it is all about. If Wahiguru is the only objective, and He is inside us, then how can he be realized outside? Outside is all maya, with color, forms, and diversity .... and from it, only confussion is the outcome. Wahiguru is our true Father, and I am telling humbly to all the brothers and sisters, that He should be our main focus, but we are so imprisoned by outer behaviours that, it seems by doing so, I have done a crime. We should remember, that the so called institutions, shall all be left behind, the day we shall depart from this world.... and that only our abhyaas, our bandagee, our karmas shall go with us. So these are things, are to be taken care.

Guru Arjun Dev, in Raag Gauree, tells us very clearly about these main things in the following beautifull shabad :

mil mayray gobind apnaa naam dayh.

Meet me, O my Lord of the Universe. Please bless me with Your Name.

naam binaa Dharig Dharig asnayhu. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, cursed, cursed is love and intimacy. ||1||Pause||

naam binaa jo pahirai khaa-ay.

Without the Naam, one who dresses and eats well ................. (outer forms, outer behaviour)

ji-o kookar joothan meh paa-ay. ||1||

is like a dog, who falls in and eats impure foods. ||1||

naam binaa jaytaa bi-uhaar. ji-o mirtak mithi-aa seegaar. ||2||

Without the Naam, all occupations are useless, like decorations on a dead body. ||2|| ................... ( without Nam bhakti, anything done is useless)

naam bisaar karay ras bhog.

One who forgets the Naam and indulges in pleasures,

sukh supnai nahee tan meh rog. ||3||

shall find no peace, even in dreams; his body shall become diseased. ||3||

naam ti-aag karay an kaaj.

One who renounces the Naam and engages in other occupations, ..............( again it is mentioned outer forms, rules and regulations)

binas jaa-ay jhoothay sabh paaj. ||4||

shall see all of his false pretenses fall away. ||4||

naam sang man pareet na laavai.

One whose mind does not embrace love for the Naam

kot karam karto narak jaavai. ||5||

shall go to hell, even though he may perform millions of ceremonial rituals. ||5|| ........( here also are mentioned ,outer forms)

har kaa naam jin man na aaraaDhaa.

One whose mind does not contemplate the Name of the Lord

chor kee ni-aa-ee jam pur baaDhaa. ||6||

is bound like a thief, in the City of Death. ||6||

laakh adambar bahut bisthaaraa.

Hundreds of thousands of ostentatious shows and great expanses

naam binaa jhoothay paasaaraa. ||7||

- without the Naam, all these displays are false. ||7|| ..................... (again very clearly states, that without Nam Bhakti, everything else is false, is bikh, is poison)

har kaa naam so-ee jan lay-ay.

That humble being repeats the Name of the Lord,

kar kirpaa naanak jis day-ay. ||8||10||

O Nanak, whom the Lord blesses with His Mercy. ||8||10||

I think, Guru Sahiban can not be more clear, in each line mahima of Nam and it`s kamaee or abhyas is given importance, he clearly says, "anything apart from Nam bhakti is like decorating a dead body". Only soul , Nam and Wahiguru are mentioned in the whole bani, there are no such things as institutions, or leaders. Wahiguru, is the only important thing, nothing else, our Gurus have always drawn our attention in the truth, which is inside in each one of us, and that truth or reality is, Nam and Shabad.

[Only five]

What more clarifications can I give? As I have said several times, the only important thing is Wahiguru and the way to realize Him.

You can clarify what you mean by rituals, regulations, rules etc.....as I asked you to clarify in my first post to you. It's not hard to figure out what I am asking you to clarify. It's time to stop acting like a child and ignoring the questions another asked from you. Learn how to discuss by answering others questions. Let's see what turns and twist you take to avoid the questions in your next post.

[harsharan000]

Dear brother, I can perceive from your posts, you are quite an inqiusitive, smart and intelligent person, but then I was just wondering, inspite of all this, why you were failing to get the messages, the real meaning from the quotes of the bani given above, not even from the shabad of Guru Arjun Dev, which was so fantastically beautifull and clear .

Forums are to express one´s views, not debates or arguments only.

The Bani of the Gurus is to be followed literally, without reasoning. So debates can be possible for worldly sciences or philosphies, but the best results of the teachings of the Gurus, can be had by following them as Sat Bachan.

This is not a court and you are no judge, that I have to answer your questions in your ways.

I have answered, but if you fail to see the light in them, then I would just say, you need time to be more mature, time to reap the fruit of truth in you.

Before ending, this is my last post to your so called questions, I am not going to answer you any more...it is just not worthy.

For me, the words of our Gurus is law. Anything apart from that, is useless.

Thanks for your adejectives towards me like: ego, ignorance, vague posts and being like a child.

May God bless you!

[Only five]

The smart person is you, who uses Gurbani to say Satguru's discipline (which you refer to as rituals, regulations, rules, and outer appearance) is false and that Satguru did not give us the discipline, but some false leaders made it up.

Satguru's discipline (5 Kakkar among rest of the rehat) came from Naam. When you call the rehat of Satguru false, you are saying the Gurbani you present here is false. When Satguru blessed us with the outer appearance of 5 Kakkar, they were given by first putting Naam inside them (given by SAtguru and blessed by the Shabad). Even though in some parts you have completely twisted the meaning of the Shabad for you self-serving ways, but I'm take one intrepretation of your's and show your true intentions.

naam ti-aag karay an kaaj.

One who renounces the Naam and engages in other occupations, ..............(again it is mentioned outer forms, rules and regulations)

This tuk is speaking about people getting too focused on worldly duties and forget the main duty of a person, which is Naam. Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it. You can't use Satguru's Bani against their own practices. If you do want too, then renounce Shabad Guru as Guru and put yourself as a Guru. In your first post you come out and say Satguru never gave us the outer appearance:

We can see it by ourselves, reading and understanding the Bani of the previous Gurus is simialr, there are no such external practices, politics, rules, regulations, they taught that Nam and Shabd is everything. Nobody can take the place of a real Satguru. After all, these leaders, at most what can they offer is only what thay have, and they may have everything, but not the love and essence of Nam, and this void has to be filled with something, so they fill it with symbols, and external practices.

You say some leaders made up the symbols and external pratices. Show us which leaders made up these practices? Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj's first orders to bhai Mardana was to stop smoking and keep his hair uncut and this condition was put on Bhai Mardana and kept if he wanted to stay with Satguru. When a person makes a mistake and calls the rehat of Satguru false or misuses Gurbani to present their twisted thinking, then do you blame the rehat and Gurbani for the person's mistakes? When a person reads Gurbani and commits an act against the Shabad he/she read, then does that make the reading of Gurbani false? The Rehat and the Shabad Guru are true, but the human is to blame for their mistakes. Understanding of Gurmat comes when a person stops denying Satguru ji's practices and humbly bows down to the practices.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal,

Dear all and Only five Jee,

You wrote "Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it."

Please provide a reference from Satguru Jee. I will be grateful.

Balbir Singh

[Only five]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal,

Dear all and Only five Jee,

You wrote "Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it."

Please provide a reference from Satguru Jee. I will be grateful.

Balbir Singh

What reference are you looking for? Satguru gave us the Rehat from the Shabad Guru. Unless your like harsharan who denies that Satguru gave us the Rehat, then I can't help you. The discussion ends when a person can't accept Satguru's Rehat.