Disrespectful "Track"!

[chatanga]

Wait for what Chatanga has to say here.

WOW the spotlight is on me.

Which jathas and kirtan are you refering too? It would be good if you can provide an example here.

I cannot name all the jathas of the top of my head so i will just list a few:

Bhai Harjinder Singh Srinagar

Sant Anoop Singh

Bhai Ravinder Singh

Bhai Maninder Singh Srinagar

Bhai something Singh Riar

etc

These are famous kirtanis, who are known world wide, but they never make it a point to use the correct raag for the shabad as our Gurus hukam. They make up their own tunes, or copy popular either from the music or film industry.

The video that Singh154 has posted, in my view, i have no objection to the tabla, but what is the shabad and which raag(emotion) did Guru Ji say sing it under?

Is it being done to Guru Ji's hukam?

[Hau Apraadhi]

Does maharaaj actually care how we do his simran as long as we are actually doing something that truly helps us in doing his simran?

[Hau Apraadhi]

Most importantly, we shouldn't look up to anybody (or expect anything from them) except our Guroo's...

[Only five]

WOW the spotlight is on me.

I cannot name all the jathas of the top of my head so i will just list a few:

Bhai Harjinder Singh Srinagar

Sant Anoop Singh

Bhai Ravinder Singh

Bhai Maninder Singh Srinagar

Bhai something Singh Riar

etc

These are famous kirtanis, who are known world wide, but they never make it a point to use the correct raag for the shabad as our Gurus hukam. They make up their own tunes, or copy popular either from the music or film industry.

The video that Singh154 has posted, in my view, i have no objection to the tabla, but what is the shabad and which raag(emotion) did Guru Ji say sing it under?

Is it being done to Guru Ji's hukam?

The spotlight is always on.

But can you provide the Hukam here for everyone where it says kirtan can only be done in raag.

If i knew where to look for it, i would provide it here.

[AnakinSkywalker]

I agree. But I would go further than that and point out that the current way of doing kirtan...with the harmonium...is mot certainly not the way the Gurus told and showed us. Strictly speaking, the baja (harmonium) is the most disrespectful and unsikh way. This is true when you consider how it came to be used in our Gurdwaras. Traditionaly, the way our Gurus showed us, was with the rabab. However, after the second anglo-sikh war, Christian missionaries went out of their way to enforce upon us the instrument from France that was in the 19th century seen as the ecclesiatical sound of the church....the harmonium. The irony here then, is that it is Sikhs that respect the 19th century christian church instrument, that quite clearly has no place in Sikhism, who are most vocally criticising modern musical sounds.

Excellent post!

[chatanga]

But can you provide the Hukam here for everyone where it says kirtan can only be done in raag.

If i knew where to look for it, i would provide it here.

Well I assume that as the Word of the Guru is Hukam, if Guru Sahib has written the raag expressly in the Sir-lek of the shabad we dont need to look elsewhere for any hukam on how we should be doing that shabad. To look elsewhere is just manmat.

Does maharaaj actually care how we do his simran as long as we are actually doing something that truly helps us in doing his simran?

Yes maharaaj does care, otherwise he wouldnt have set his eternal saroop according to raag.

I would like to ask you :

did Guru Ji ever give us any teaching or shabad that was not necessary?

[SikhRoots]

Just out of curiosity, do you think people like Bhagat Namdev and others who were poor and uneducated always repeated God's name and done simran, keertan in the raags?

But I do have to add, it's a shame to see such tracks such as this out there on the net. Trance and dance do not go with Gurbani. The filmi music some of you guys refer to are from really old puraatan reetaan as well, just because Bollywood produces use these reetaan, does not necessarily mean they originated from the filmi world.

[chatanga]

Just out of curiosity, do you think people like Bhagat Namdev and others who were poor and uneducated always repeated God's name and done simran, keertan in the raags?

The filmi music some of you guys refer to are from really old puraatan reetaan as well, just because Bollywood produces use these reetaan, does not necessarily mean they originated from the filmi world.

I dont know if that question actually makes sense as the Guru's accorded specific raags to the shabads, not the Bhagats themselves. The Bhagats did not accord raags to the shabads. Anyway how Bhagat Ji did kirtan would not be of consequence here as Guru in later time specified the raag superceding any form of kirtan that had taken place earlier.

Film industry has borrowed from classical indian music, and vice versa, but in these times the balance has shifted from mutual borrowing to excessive borrowing on the part of kirtanis from the film industry. Its why majority of kirtan has no or negligible spiritual effect on sangat.

[GuptUnknown]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sant Attar Singh Ji Mastuana Wale used to sing glorious praises of God's many ways. Here is a small sakhi.

Sant Ji used to sing the holy hymns in a simple manner and got the Sangat to do so. Once, Bhai Didar SIngh thought that Sant Ji did not have the knowledge of the Ragas. Instantly at the completion of the Shabad, Sant Ji sang another Shabad in a peculiar mood, keeping in view the timeliness of the Raags according to the time of the day. Sant Ji said, "The true followers of Guru Nanak do not need to learn the Raags. They acquire this skill without any special worldly efforts."

Phull Chuk Maf

Waheguru Ji Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[JSinghnz]

I dont know if that question actually makes sense as the Guru's accorded specific raags to the shabads, not the Bhagats themselves. The Bhagats did not accord raags to the shabads. Anyway how Bhagat Ji did kirtan would not be of consequence here as Guru in later time specified the raag superceding any form of kirtan that had taken place earlier.

Film industry has borrowed from classical indian music, and vice versa, but in these times the balance has shifted from mutual borrowing to excessive borrowing on the part of kirtanis from the film industry.

Its why majority of kirtan has no or negligible spiritual effect on sangat.

Please keep such sweeping opinions to yourself. Sikh sangat is getting a very positive spiritual effects from kirtan.