Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
13Mirch

Bhagat Ravidass And Ravidassias.

Recommended Posts

I run a page on facebook and want to do an article on Ravidassias. Who they are etc. Can anyone please tell me about them and why they are copying Sikh traditions such as Jaikara and Nishaan Sahib and changing it to their own style? Why Sachkhand Ballan rejected Guru Granth Sahib Ji and only uses Bhagat Ravidassi's bani. Why they view him as Guru and no one else? The history of Bhagat Ravidass and Gurbani. And what our Gurus have said about him.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mirch = I run a page on facebook and want to do an article on Ravidassias. Who they are etc.

UK = We as Sikhs are all Ravidassia's by virtue of the fact that we bow down daily in reverence to the words of Dhan Dhan Sri Ravidas Ji Maharaj that are within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj

Mirch = Can anyone please tell me about them

UK = Unfortunately, by virtue of the fact that some within our community are either too ignorant to realise the above or have persisted in holding discriminatory thoughts against those whose ancestors were engaged in the same noble profession as Ravidas Ji Maharaj (of providing leather-related goods, for example shoes so that we human beings could walk safely from A to B) ... a certain percentage of Sikhs whose ancestors were engaged in the same trade as Michael Schumacher's forefathers, have chosen to self-define themselves as Ravidassia's because enough of us Sikhs don't realise that every Sikh is Ravidassia by default. Similarly, pride in the fort of Ramgarh and the Ramgarhia Misl's achievements against the Mughals was saanjha to the whole Qaum but unfortunately in modern times even those achievements have been (unfairly) appropriated away from the wider Sikh Panth's collective pride by exclusionary committees.

Mirch = and why they are copying Sikh traditions such as Jaikara and Nishaan Sahib and changing it to their own style? Why Sachkhand Ballan rejected Guru Granth Sahib Ji and only uses Bhagat Ravidassi's bani?

UK = At this point in time, thankfully the majority of folks in Punjab whose ancestors were connected to the leather trade are Sikh and still have devout faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. However, Indira Gandhi realised that as Sikhs of this ancestry comprised the second largest demographic element of our Panth after Jatts (yet faced discrimination primarily from the same) ... she realised that if this integral demographic component could be split away from the Sikh Panth it would be as if one of our Panth's arms was cut off. Hence, an elaborate plan was hatched with the Dera Sachkhand Ballan boss at the time (Garib Dass - who despite the name was very wealthy thanks to the funding Indira fed him) that in order for him to split Ravidassia Sikhs away from the Panth, a new place of worship in Uttar Pradesh was required, a new Hindu-friendly bani to split Ravidassia Sikhs away from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj had to be created and in order to create a separate identity a different Jaikara and Nishaan Sahib were required too. In short, the aim of Indira and Garib Dass was a wholesale transformation of erstwhile Sikhs into Hindu's so that instead of such Sikhs worshipping at their local Gurdwara's (which were predominantly saanjhay at the time) to get erstwhile Punjabi Sikhs to worship at a Mandir in UP so that the local Hindu shopkeepers in Varanasi could simultaneously profit (in return for their loyal support to Congress in 1980 and 1984). It's ironic that we Sikhs did nothing about that in terms of addressing discrimination seriously and aggressively, given that the Hindutva philosophy had always despised Dhan Dhan Ravidas Ji Maharaj and the whole reason leather work was even looked down upon as polluted was thanks to classical Hindu beliefs as espoused in Manu Smriti. Nevertheless, since 1980 countless parents with names of Singh and Kaur have named their children with the suffixes of Ram+Lal or Devi+Kumari instead as cultural markers to dissociate their connection with Sikhi.

Mirch = Why they view him as Guru and no one else?

UK = A lot of that is as a result of the anti-Sikh conspiracy outlined above but also because certain fake Sikhs did not treat others within the Panth as the true brothers they are. We can either correct this now and immediately so or it is a demographic inevitability that Sikhs will be below 50% of the Punjab population in the 2021 census. Doaba is now a minority Sikh region due to the success of Indira+DSB and the stupidity of caste-believing fake Sikhs.

Mirch = The history of Bhagat Ravidass and Gurbani. And what our Gurus have said about him.

UK = Bhagat Ravidas Ji Maharaj's Ji's shloks are within our present day Guru more than even Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's contribution. That says it all especially considering the fact that our 6th, 7th and 8th Masters words are not within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

UK = When Gurbani mentions "The slave Nanak craveth the happiness of being made the dust of the saints' feet" ... it is quite clear that Dhan Dhan Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Dhan Dhan Kabir Ji Maharaj were two of the Highest of the High Saints being referred to (however, all Sikhs are also aware of our Guru's incredibile humility)

UK = Either we as Sikhs eradicate all discrimination within the Panth (especially at matrimonial stages and separate GuruGhars) before this decade is out or let's be prepared to usher in 2021 with Sikhs a minority in Punjab and hated by folks whose ancestors were Sikh (like the famous example of Giani Ditt Singh of Singh Sabha) but who are increasingly being transformed into Hindu's by our enemies as a result of our failure to live up to what Vasakhi 1699 represented. If cultural practises are different at Ravidassia Gurdware let us still recognise our brothers and sisters as Sikhs and let's remember that the Guru's taught that those who face the most hardship in life are in fact those closer to God as evidenced in the Sakhi which showed who was the "higher" of Malik Bhago and Bhai Lalo Ji

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on you can't blame this all on Indira Gandhi and Hindus. I've never heard of hindus singing putt brahmin de! The vast majority of Sikhs believe in the caste system just as much as Hindus if not more. If you repress a bunch of people then it is only natural that they will move away. Say if you had friends who constantly looked down on you, made fun of you, considered you dirty, wouldn't eat at your house, would you want to be friends with them?

The reason the Sikh population is decreasing in Doaba is because every Tom, <banned word filter activated> and Harry from villages wants to go abroad and a lot do. My parents are from this area and whenever I speak to the youth there they all say they want to move abroad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why are you refering to ballan as sachkhand ballan? they just added sachkhand for them selves. call it ballan and nothing else. for Sikhs sachkhand is Sri Harimandir Sahib.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run a page on facebook and want to do an article on Ravidassias. Who they are etc. Can anyone please tell me about them and why they are copying Sikh traditions such as Jaikara and Nishaan Sahib and changing it to their own style? Why Sachkhand Ballan rejected Guru Granth Sahib Ji and only uses Bhagat Ravidassi's bani. Why they view him as Guru and no one else? The history of Bhagat Ravidass and Gurbani. And what our Gurus have said about him.

SSA, What page brother? Got a link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not bad but I do not see connection with bhagat ravidass and ravidassia? they don't support khalistan and are viciously pro-india.they boast about winning in 1984 because they took the indian side,

is that 4 real? why did, if true, ravidassi's/chamaars side with india/ they r sikhs afterall, regardless of their tribe. Their families too were destroyed by dirtystanis surely?

jus found vids like this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIVZ6UjvnZQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is that 4 real? why did, if true, ravidassi's/chamaars side with india/ they r sikhs afterall, regardless of their tribe. Their families too were destroyed by dirtystanis surely?

jus found vids like this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIVZ6UjvnZQ

lol that video is one of those fakes like the one where the sikh guy is saying he is going to kill 50000 hindus.

I know many ravidass/chamar ppl from uni/college alot tell me their family we army and police in india but i guess it because they were given chances to improve their situation by the indian government and so did not bite the hand that fed them. they don't trust a sikh run independent state and im alway being corrected when i call them sikh they tell me they are ravidassia..blah blah blah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^

That's sad 2 know man, india n brahmins have treated chamaars/ravidassis's A LOT worser than some so called sikhs have, why they wud side with the dirtystanis is beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^

That's sad 2 know man, india n brahmins have treated chamaars/ravidassis's A LOT worser than some so called sikhs have, why they wud side with the dirtystanis is beyond me.

Are you sure? I never knew brahmins in punjab were in large numbers or held such power. The problem is with us and we complain about being oppressed but in many instances like this we are the oppressor. Once people admit this then only can we move on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure? I never knew brahmins in punjab were in large numbers or held such power. The problem is with us and we complain about being oppressed but in many instances like this we are the oppressor. Once people admit this then only can we move on

u do kno that chamaar/ravidassi's r called dalits outside of panjab? Coz if ur tellin me dalits/chamaars have been treted as equals in the rest of india for 1000's of yrs, then ur havin a bubble bath! Nor am i complainin/whinin btw. Have u heard bowt the naxals? Seen a movie called bandit queen? Seen wat life is like in Uttar Pradesh for chamaars? Panjab is a haven compared 2 rest of india. I aint arse'-lickin jatts or whoever bullys chamaars in panjab, especialy as im not of either tribe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

u do kno that chamaar/ravidassi's r called dalits outside of panjab? Coz if ur tellin me dalits/chamaars have been treted as equals in the rest of india for 1000's of yrs, then ur havin a bubble bath! Nor am i complainin/whinin btw. Have u heard bowt the naxals? Seen a movie called bandit queen? Seen wat life is like in Uttar Pradesh for chamaars? Panjab is a haven compared 2 rest of india. I aint arse'-lickin jatts or whoever bullys chamaars in panjab, especialy as im not of either tribe.

Yes I know about communist Naxal movement and what they are up against with Ranvir Sena. But at the same time I KNOW they are not treated as equals in Punjab, however in my region Doaba they are powerful and educated but they are not so in Malwa or other regions where bonded labour exists. This is due to the fact they have rejected mainstream Sikhism and taken up Buddhism, Ravidassia, Christianity, Ad-dharm and so on, whilst in Malwa they have little self-esteem they often hid their identity and say they are Ramdassia Sikh and obviously you mentioned UP where many are classed as Hindus.

So I would not say its Sikhi that helped them in Doaba, maybe Sikh values but not everyone practices this in Punjab. It is funny you mention Jatt, most the hatred towards dalits in Punjab seems to stem from them. I am neither tribe either, infact I would be considered a higher caste than Jatt if I aknowledged the caste system and to be honest I find most of them idiotic especially here in the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I know about communist Naxal movement and what they are up against with Ranvir Sena. But at the same time I KNOW they are not treated as equals in Punjab, however in my region Doaba they are powerful and educated but they are not so in Malwa or other regions where bonded labour exists. This is due to the fact they have rejected mainstream Sikhism and taken up Buddhism, Ravidassia, Christianity, Ad-dharm and so on, whilst in Malwa they have little self-esteem they often hid their identity and say they are Ramdassia Sikh and obviously you mentioned UP where many are classed as Hindus.

So I would not say its Sikhi that helped them in Doaba, maybe Sikh values but not everyone practices this in Punjab. It is funny you mention Jatt, most the hatred towards dalits in Punjab seems to stem from them. I am neither tribe either, infact I would be considered a higher caste than Jatt if I aknowledged the caste system and to be honest I find most of them idiotic especially here in the UK.

bro i am too from doaba area (like most of the sikhs in uk), in ur opinion, wat can be done 2 bring chamaars back into sikhi? in a way im kinda of happy for them, that they go around singin "putt chamaara de", coz they feel like they finally have a backbone 2 fight their so-called superiors, but then ultimatley, this is a detriment 2 sikh unity. Then the enemies of r religion, can slowly pick us off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • wth!!  this is crazy!  how do they do that     technically shouldn't a naked human die in that temperature    
    • I have cousins in Canada and NZ. But i prefer Canada (7 hour flight) to NZ (24 hour flight).
    • Punjabi parents emotionally torture you lol   They are the ones at loss at the end because they end up with grown children whose relationship with them is little to nothing.  its tragic really has anyone read Freuds psychoanalysis, got it off from kindle for free.  I remember a bit from back in school   think he was saying how the toddler years are the most important and that our impressions of our parents at that age determines out relationship with them and other people in our adulthood?  I'm sue a lot of it is rubbish? but some of it did make sense ...  Most my cousins have a 0 relationship with their parents   
    • But doesn't that make us look insecure the fact a painting had to be edited because it doesn't look Sikh enough? Guru HarRai Sahib ji kept loads of animals and fed them. Many Gurdware in India have stray dogs outside or within the complex. Not sure about the earlier Guru Sahibs but didn't Guru Arjan Dev ji tell Sikhs to wear 2 Dastars because the Mughals had banned anyone from wearing Dastar in their own country, and then Guru Hargobind Sahib ji continued the tradition and kept horses and weapons too. I'm pretty sure in Gurbilas 6 says that Guru Hargobind Sahib ji ji told Sikhs to wear dastar and keep weapons and horses. 
    • It's Little Punjab. Will your spirit withstand the eventual crushing realisation that you've surrounded yourself with morons? Wealthy, upwardly mobile, and a few other "pleasing" surface accoutrements, but morons nonetheless.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use