Sikhi and Evolution.

[Only five]

According to evolution, where or what did humans come from?

[SikhSeeker]

How about all the ages we have had, Satya yuga for example, does or did evolution start from that age and precede throughout the ages or did evolution start with Kal Yug?

[TheFancyBanana]

according to evoloution life began on earth like 3billion years ago with simple cells. this happened by the creators will. these cells may have been created by organic molecules being created, amino acids (check the miller urey experiment they made amino acids. but no life) these simple cells then began to evolve. anyway complex animals came around 550million years ago. in the seas. these evolved to new animals via natural selection (mutations in genes making the animal better adapted, able to comete better passes on its genes to offspring). the sea animals then appeared on land.

"The True Lord created the air,

From air, water arose.

From water, creation arose.

His Light permeates all creation. " guru nanak dev ji. humans developed from ape like creatures in africa. the climate was changing trees which these animals lived in were dissapearing so the apes moved to grassland. developed walking to survive. since then there have been many human species. homo sapians survived.

[Only five]

according to evoloution life began on earth like 3billion years ago with simple cells. this happened by the creators will. these cells may have been created by organic molecules being created, amino acids (check the miller urey experiment they made amino acids. but no life) these simple cells then began to evolve. anyway complex animals came around 550million years ago. in the seas. these evolved to new animals via natural selection (mutations in genes making the animal better adapted, able to comete better passes on its genes to offspring). the sea animals then appeared on land.

"The True Lord created the air,

From air, water arose.

From water, creation arose.

His Light permeates all creation. " guru nanak dev ji. humans developed from ape like creatures in africa. the climate was changing trees which these animals lived in were dissapearing so the apes moved to grassland. developed walking to survive. since then there have been many human species. homo sapians survived.

So then at the top of the reincarnation cycle are apes? How does the atma fit into evolution? Can an atma get relieved of the reincarnation system before coming an ape? What about the solak of Sri Jap ji Sahib and i believe its the 21st pauri of Jap ji Sahib............how does these go along with evolutions. Evolution is talking about matter and how it changes (example humans developed from ape like creatures). The Pauri tells us by our own actions we recieve as we do. So do we recieve throught matter changing or by our actions?

Also the Gurbani you posted in english doesn't say anything about what creation is. This might sound like a stupid question at first, but isn't air and water also creation and not above creation? The creation arose when air came into existence as air is apart of creation. So maybe that english translation is not telling what Guru Sahib is saying.

I know many will be upset by this post as they are hardcore believers in evolution and no one can question evolution, but ooooo well..............

[Singh559]

So then at the top of the reincarnation cycle are apes? How does the atma fit into evolution? Can an atma get relieved of the reincarnation system before coming an ape?

Apes aren't at the top of the reincarnation cycle, those who can meet waheguru are. Humans may have evolved from apes, but apes don't have dharam or the ability to think like we do.

There are life forms within the vast expanse of the Universe that Sants say Khalsa Raj has come already. Do you think that these people would be homeosapiens? Theoretically it's possible, but mathematically they're a different species. I'd bet my bottom dollars they're very different biologically, but the same in terms of how they see Waheguru, spirituality and experience kam, krodh, lobh moh and ahankaar.

What about the solak of Sri Jap ji Sahib and i believe its the 21st pauri of Jap ji Sahib............how does these go along with evolutions. Evolution is talking about matter and how it changes (example humans developed from ape like creatures). The Pauri tells us by our own actions we recieve as we do. So do we recieve throught matter changing or by our actions?

The animals and primitive life forms that can not taste Waheguru and understand what it means to be separated from Waheguru all get a chance at what Guru Ji tells us in Rehras Sahib everyday:

"Bhaeee prapath manukh dehoria| Gobind milan ki ehe teri baria, avar kaaj teray kitay na kaam| Mil saadh sangat paj keval naam|"

They get a chance to one day get a joon that is basically oru human life.

I used to think this meant human life as some kathavaachiks say human life, but it only says that this is your chance to meet Gobind - Waheguru - the creator of the Universe and where you've come from - Your home. This would apply to beings of other species who have the ability to meet Waheguru in another galaxy far, far away.

Also the Gurbani you posted in english doesn't say anything about what creation is. This might sound like a stupid question at first, but isn't air and water also creation and not above creation? The creation arose when air came into existence as air is apart of creation. So maybe that english translation is not telling what Guru Sahib is saying.

I know many will be upset by this post as they are hardcore believers in evolution and no one can question evolution, but ooooo well..............

Not a stupid question at all bro, questions like this make everyone think deeply.

Check this out, it's in the parkarma of Sachkhand Sri Harmandir Sahib:

http://en.wikipedia..../Flower_of_Life

The flower of life is an attempt of spiritually bright or even enlightened people to conceptualize how Waheguru made such a Universe where from sub atomic particles can form atoms -> elements -> compounds and shortcut all the way up to single celled life --> multicellular --> human beings.

I know I am missing a lot, but from little I know, this is what i humbly accept as beign true.

[TheFancyBanana]

Apes aren't at the top of the reincarnation cycle, those who can meet waheguru are. Humans may have evolved from apes, but apes don't have dharam or the ability to think like we do.

There are life forms within the vast expanse of the Universe that Sants say Khalsa Raj has come already. Do you think that these people would be homeosapiens? Theoretically it's possible, but mathematically they're a different species. I'd bet my bottom dollars they're very different biologically, but the same in terms of how they see Waheguru, spirituality and experience kam, krodh, lobh moh and ahankaar.

The animals and primitive life forms that can not taste Waheguru and understand what it means to be separated from Waheguru all get a chance at what Guru Ji tells us in Rehras Sahib everyday:

"Bhaeee prapath manukh dehoria| Gobind milan ki ehe teri baria, avar kaaj teray kitay na kaam| Mil saadh sangat paj keval naam|"

They get a chance to one day get a joon that is basically oru human life.

I used to think this meant human life as some kathavaachiks say human life, but it only says that this is your chance to meet Gobind - Waheguru - the creator of the Universe and where you've come from - Your home. This would apply to beings of other species who have the ability to meet Waheguru in another galaxy far, far away.

Not a stupid question at all bro, questions like this make everyone think deeply.

Check this out, it's in the parkarma of Sachkhand Sri Harmandir Sahib:

http://en.wikipedia..../Flower_of_Life

The flower of life is an attempt of spiritually bright or even enlightened people to conceptualize how Waheguru made such a Universe where from sub atomic particles can form atoms -> elements -> compounds and shortcut all the way up to single celled life --> multicellular --> human beings.

I know I am missing a lot, but from little I know, this is what i humbly accept as beign true.

great post. :D. there are many many many planets out there. what are we to the universe. it would take eons upon eons to get anywhere in the universe. there must be thousands of different types of animals and aliens out there. probably around way before us. maybe these were getting to god, now earth devolped life and life here was given the opportunity to merge with their creator. why must be so filled with ego to think humans couldnt be made from apes, or that we are special things, gods gift to the universe. and that quote does talk about creation as that is where life started and developed, within water, when you are in the womb, condiotions are vey similar to water. water is a symbol of life. where there is water there is life."I see none as great a giver as you. O Great Giver; You give in charity to the beings of all the continents, worlds, solar systems, nether regions and universes".

[Guest]

The earth is approx 4.6 billion years (460 crore years) old . It was initially a very hot and unstable place , lava erupting everywhere ... must have looked like hell .. Then slowly over time , it cooled and water vapor cooled and fell on earth as water accumulating at deep places as ocean .

The chemicals in air (mostly said to be methane , carbon dioxide and ammonia ) were "cooked" due to lightning strikes in sky and suns heat ..

The rain and evaporation made many iterations of this process ... Many organic molecules were formed , mostly proteins which were precursors to life . (google "miller urey experiment")

Then , after billions of years , 380 crore years back , a macromolecule (big organic molecule ) of proteins formed .. It was RNA . (Ribonucleic acid) .. Sure , this molecule was a non-living thing but it was remarkably different from other susbstance in that it could make copy of itself which in itself is a sign of life . RNA was also a catalyst which led to formation of other complex molecules ... RNA was free floating in seas now , BUT soon a better version came about (by accident or natural causes ) , some RNA was enclosed in a cell like structure of phospholipids molecule which boundaried the RNA from harsh chemical environment outside the cell ... VOILA ! the first primitive cell ...

Overtime , after millions of years , we see some of these primitive cells develop into photosynthetic cells (forefather of all plants )

Some other cells start clustering together (perhaps earliest sponges ) . In such cluster of cells , overtime , cells do specific tasks for the group as a whole and are dependent on each other for survival .. We , have reached somewhat closer to multicellular animals ..

After that , we see evolution of sexual reproduction .

Sexual reproduction stepped evolution on accelerator , becoz now with many possible combinations of genes (from male & female ) , only the fittest individuals survive and pass their genes on anothers .

NOTHING HAPPENS IN 10 , 100 , 1000 , OR EVEN 1 LAKH YEARS , BUT GIVE IT A FEW MILLION YEARS , YOU SEE TOTALLY DIFFERENT SPECIES HAVE EVOLVED (FROM LITTLE CHANGES ACCUMULATED FROM THOUSANDS OF GENERATIONS) OR MOST PROBABLY , THE ORIGINAL SPECIES BRANCHED INTO SEVERAL !

see this

[Guest]

According to evolution, where or what did humans come from?

From apes , ofcourse ! :smile2:

In very very very short form , this is how life evolved to human over these 380 crore years ::

DNA -> cell -> multicellular life -> chordates (animals with backbone) ( first fish with backbone was size of our thumb nail) -> amphibians (first tetrapods , beings with 4 limbs) -> reptiles (remember dinosaurs ? ) -> reptile-like mammals (synapsids) branched from the reptiles way before a branch of reptiles became dinosaurs -> rise of the mammals -> some mammal as small as a rat -> primitive monkeys -> primates (perhaps diverged here into old world monkeys and new world monkeys ) --> Chimpanzee/human common ancestor -> Human (a new world monkey )

And guys , remember chimpanzee / bonobos are our closest rishteydaar (for chimp and human dna is 98% same ) :laugh2:

[TheFancyBanana]

50%-60% of our DNA is shared with a banana. 90% of our DNA is similar to mammals. it all points to a common ancestor. the 1st primative cells. evoloutuon is going on all around us. we see animals that are similar but different species. the finches on the different galapogos islands darwin saw, they had adapted to eat food sources on the diffrent islands, but came from the same bird.

[Only five]

Evolution is a fact.

The reason why so many bacteria become resistant to various antibiotics and diseases become resistant to vaccines si because of evolution.

It's simply how Waheguru creates the worlds and breaks them down.

~~~~~

hir Awpy pMc qqu ibsQwrw ivic DwqU pMc Awip pwvY ]

har aapae pa(n)ch thath bisathhaaraa vich dhhaathoopa(n)ch aap paavai ||

The Lord Himself directs the evolution of the world of the five elements; He Himself infuses the five senses into it.

~~~~~

The word bisathhaara does not mean evolution. The translator ran off with his imagination here. The word comes up other times in Gurbani (ang 1156, 912), but the translator does not write evolution or anything close to evolution. A correct translation of this word could be to say:

The Lord himself illustrates (shows) the five elements of the world and he himself puts the five elements into the world. (read the whole shabad in context with the Rehaoo tuk in mind)

I don`t know what kind of historical context this shabad was written in, but this is most likely a response to the people that say they can do something against Gurmat, like submit to dirty politicians (and help them increase their bad acts) for the `greater good` (achieve political gain for the Khalsa Panth). Satguru is telling them that Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj does everything and they don`t need to worry about the `greater good` and lose their goodness as Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj is the master of the Greater Good.............he does all...........why lose your good for manmat acts.