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Vedas and Gurbani. Whats the truth and what is not?


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I came across this website which states that Sikh Gurus believe in Vedas. I cannot find the interpretations of the shabads in relation to it's comments.

http://agniveer.com/sikh-gurus-and-vedas/

On the other hand I came across this booklet which says Sikh Gurus did not believe in Vedas.

http://agniveer.com/sikh-gurus-and-vedas/

Can anyone explain what Guru Sahibaans take on Vedas was and why there are pro-Veda shabds and anti-Veda shabds in Gurbani? And how would you refute someone saying Sikh is a branch of Vedic dharam?

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I do not belong to that group either. Bhai Randhir Singh was a great gursikh and being a gursikh he is my elder brother. Therefore, a Sikh must listen to what an elder brother has to say on the subjec

Many people do as Bhai Sahib was clearly a better GurSikh and many say a Sant than anyone here. Just because you have a differing opinion doesn't mean you should go out of the way to say you don't be

Jin Ki Liv har charnee laagee, teh bedan teh pey tyagee those who were devoted to the feet of the lord, they abandoned the vedas jin mat bed kateban tyagi, parbrahm keh pey anuragi those who abando

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I tried reading a very interesting interpretation of the Vedas by Sri Aurobindo (The secret of the Vedas) and I've flicked through the Max Muller translation.

I don't know how anyone can make strong claims about the Vedas because no one seems to be able to comprehend it in a definitive manner. When I went through Max Mullers interpretation it read like complete gibberish in many places.

All that being said, I respect the Vedas because it is THE oldest book in the world and it originated from Panjab - I just think its meanings have been lost over time.

Your question about affirmative and negative comments visa vis the Vedas in bani is an interesting one. Aurobindo believed it was a coded work with referred to psychological processes/development using analogy and allegory.

When I tried reading it I began appreciate our Gurbani for its clarity and general straight forwardness more.

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Well, there are comments in Gurbaani from both aspects -

a). Bed Kateb kaho mat Jhoothe, jhoota jo naan bichare (I don't know the Ang number).

b). Pathshahi 10 Chaupayi - Ta Ka Mud Uchatar Veda, Taa ko bhev naan paavat Beda.

Please see extrenal sources - http://www.gurbani.org/gurblog/2012/05/01/gurbani-says-do-not-call-vedas-false/

http://www.searchsikhism.com/hind8.html

The point is - Guru Nanak and Guru Granth teachings don't criticise Vedas (as they don't critise even Kateb), but criticise people who misue them and manipulate them for their selfish purpose. That's the reason they say to do Bichar of VEDAS, no mere chanting of Slokas, which is true even when have Akhand Panth Sahib in our homes. Guru Granth Sahib is an ocean of love dedicated to almighty Waheguru - so there is no criticism of such sort of any ancient text, however, it does not even preach study of Vedas. All it preaches is Naam-Simaran and love toward God, and to look for this message in Vedas. But there is segment of people who want to twist preachings of Guru Granth Sahib to innocent people that Gurbaani preach Vedas, and the RAAM inside Gurbaani is Sri Raam Chandara Jee, so the old happy days of Brahmin hegemony based on Veda's knowledge can be brought back. How? If Gurbaani says preach VEDAS, then Vedas are known only by Brahmins, so worship Brahmins :). But people who preach this, it will good to ask them, how much Vedas or Veda Sloka's they know, they will run away :).

BTW - How much the Vedas have been manipulated, nobody knows, as till just 100 yrs ago, they weren't any written form of Vedas, translated by word of mouth in family from father to son.

Dwivedi - Who have knowledge of 2 Vedas.

Trivedi - Who has knowledge of 3 Vedas.

Chaturvedi - Who has knowledge of 4 Vedas.

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Gurbani is highly misinterpreted in that article. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has refuted these in his books and presented correct interpretation keeping grammar and Gurbani’s message in view.

Would it be right to also say Gurbani acknowledges God created all the religions and that some people intentionally pick and choose to say "oh look Gurbani says God created Vedas".

They don't go further to see what Guru Sahib says what their take on the Quran/Vedas ect.

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If you must know vedas status in gurbani. I suggest you listen to sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale katha on sri guru granth sahib ji where vedas is mentioned , his katha is quite unbiased, not insecure, not hindu phobic at the same not snatan, not paranoid, . Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale is considered , one of very few gyanis who are real authority on puratan Gurmat theology in old traditional gurmat circle..!!!

This is coming from someone who is not taksali or cultish or anything...!!!

Can you please provide a link bro

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If you must know vedas status in gurbani. I suggest you listen to sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale katha on sri guru granth sahib ji where vedas is mentioned , his katha is quite unbiased, not insecure, not hindu phobic at the same not snatan, not paranoid, . Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale is considered , one of very few gyanis who are real authority on puratan Gurmat theology in old traditional gurmat circle..!!!

This is coming from someone who is not taksali or cultish or anything...!!!

Can you provide the link? Eager to listen to that Katha ...

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Gurbani is highly misinterpreted in that article. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has refuted these in his books and presented correct interpretation keeping grammar and Gurbani’s message in view.

maybe you dont know..but alot of us dont belong to that group and do not take its respected leaders as a source on interpretating gurbani and panthic maryada...

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I do not belong to that group either. Bhai Randhir Singh was a great gursikh and being a gursikh he is my elder brother. Therefore, a Sikh must listen to what an elder brother has to say on the subject. You may disagree with him but his research of Gurbani must be refuted based on rationality not by categorizing him in a group. By your logic one can denounce Taksal’s interpretation just because it comes from Taksal. This is absurd. Have you even read his books? If you do not personally like him then read Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha’s refutations to Hindu Arya Samajists. You are only hurting yourself by keeping away from Gurbani grammar. Guru Rakha

no i will never discredit taksal..they are a puraatan samparda...

no i havent discredited his writings or his beliefs...but im just making the point...that not everyone takes him as a source for interpretating gurbani or maryada...and people need to understand when you cite his quotes and use references from his writings as a base to form an arguement in debates and discussions, that not everyone accepts that as a credible source or foundation for understanding gurbani or defining what is rehat and what isnt......just an opinion

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