Japping Naam - How Important?

[N30S1NGH]

ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥

There is no indication of Beej Mantar being Oangkaar. Since Beej Mantar is for everyone, it must be Gurmantar because next pankti talks about Naam which is a singular noun. Since Naam is obtained from Satguru, it has to be Gurmantar. But I have nothing against one meditating upon Oangkaar or any Shabad of Gurbani. It is according to Gurmat.

That does not take anything away from Gurmantar itself nor its manmat (how could reciting mantar from gurbani be manmat- if you think its manmat

Bhai Sahib, I stated that it is manmat to believe that Gurbani gives option to pick and choose. If one chooses to practice a particular word of an entire shabad then he is practicing Gurbani. That is fine but it cannot be called Gurmantar. Practicing Gurbani and calling it Gurmantar is not correct. That’s all I am asserting.

- Sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale refers to bij mantar both as - ongkar (sabda parkashak) and bij mantar as- Vahiguroo as well- Vahiguroo (sanjha mantar for all varna- khatri, bhramin, vaishau, shudar) in sukhmani sahib gurbani larivar katha.

- Gurmantar is Vahiguroo, there is no question about that, thats what panj pyares gives you and should give you. As you rightly said jaaping on other gurughar mantars does not take anything away from Gurmantar which is Vahiguroo nor it should.

But initially you did not distinguish between Gurmantar and mantar of Vedas. This is why I made that statement. Mantars of Vedas are far inferior to Gurbani. I do not say one word of Gurbani is superior to another. All words of Gurbani are equal. However, one word is specifically called Gurmantar. Hence, rest of Gurbani is not a mantar. Any word can be picked for meditation but not in the place of Gurmantar. One can do jaap of any shabad but Guru Sahib’s Hukam is to recite Gurmantar (Naam) in Amrit Vela. It is a Hukam of Gurbani. No other mantar should be recited in its place.

I agree, no other mantars from either vedas or gurbani can replace gurmantar. I don't think anyone is disupting this fact. However, i humbly disagree at amrit vela only gurmantar recitation is allowed. Sant sunder singh bhindranwale did lakhs of mool mantar to get his surti merged with nirgun. From bhramgyani dristhi whole gurbani is naam roop.

Mool mantar has quite special significance in sikhi like gurmantar as well as sri guru nanak dev ji himself went to river for soo many days and got deliverance of mool mantra from nirankar. It was maharaj leela- play an act showing importance of nirgun vahiguroo and importance of shabad guru in form of mool mantra (sargun/nirgun intertwined with each other)....!!!!

I think you and i both agree gursikh should jaap on gurmantar, mool mantar or any shabad from gurbani than vedic mantars.

With that being said, more research is needed from your side i belief regarding vedic mantars. Whether you like it or not.. vedic mantars have elements of both sargun and nirgun interpretation and have power to realize nirgun vahiguroo in other words have gyan of nirgun realization. I don't want to start up full fledge discussion on this in this thread may be some other time when we are both in vacation or something..lol..cannot spend time too much discussion on semantics of mantars but rather we gursikhs should spend more actually meditating on gurmantar/mool mantar/shabad from gurbani.

I haven’t read any official AKJ stance on it but in Gurmukh Jeevan I do not recall anywhere him eating meat. Nonetheless, eating meat does not prove that he had less bhagtee. Wouldn’t you agree? Let’s leave speculations out. All I know is he was a great gursikh.

Thats true i agree with you- eating meat does not prove that he had less bhagti. Sikhi is above from black and white notions.

As i said earlier, Bhai Vir Singh Ji was great gursikh and had lot of bhagti. My divine freind - bhai gurdev singh tells me all the great sakhiya of bhai sahib ji and his works on Gurmat. All though my freind is nirmala, he has amazing respect for bhai vir singh ji and his works. He is big fan of bhai vir singh ji works, as he quotes them very often.

With that being said, bhai vir singh ji made some questionable decisions in his life especially when he edited soraj parkash granth. It's not the editing parts itself which are questionable its how he went about doing it without calling Gurmata/sarbat khalsa meeting on it where all scholars of panth including puratan samparda would have been invited and issues would be discussed . He never bothered to consult wider panth.. If he felt so strongly about sections in soraj parkash granth he should have called an gurmatta meeting or if not should come up rebuttal book refuting things in soraj parkash granth. Overall, from scholary perspective its set bad precedence in Sikh academia that any scholar if great can edit ithahisk granths on thier own without any gurmatta. Gurmatta/Sarbat Khalsa are the only way to go in Gurmat when it comes to editing anything whether its historical events or sikhi school of thought etc..!!

Bhai Sahib, the discussion was specifically about Ved mantras versus Gurmantar. In this post I only tried to clarify that I fully agree with you on one practicing Gurbani and picking any shabad for that matter as long as the intent is not to replace Gurmantar.

Based on my understanding, maharaj bachans in sri akaal ustat posted in original post is not against vedic mantars or any mantars per say but rather dogmatic perception/or an attitude - of an individual towards mantar thats all. We can both agree to disagree on that, its ok. Thats the beauty of sikhi to have diverse thoughts or having diversity of perceptions. All perceptions unless totally contary to Gurmat are right as its gurbani connects to human consciousness at different different perceptions/stages.

Missionaries these days call the entire Gurbani Gurmantar and we need to be cautious about it because they are trying to eliminate Naam japp and Amrit Vela. Also, it will eliminate Panj Pyare giving Gurmantar. Guru Rakha

I agree veer we can leave our minor differences here and come together as one unit to fight these protestant types propaganda. I think panthic sikhs are doing great job at it, beating missionaries with their own tools (prof sahib singh/bhai kahn singh nabha etc) is just priceless..hehehe..!!!

This was good vichar with Bijla Singh. Mods can archive this discussion if others are ok...as I am done with this thread.