Jump to content

Taksal faction under Baba Harnam Singh has NOT changed Gurbani


chatanga
 Share

Recommended Posts

Need to verify the source of those puraatan birs, just becasue it's old doesn;t make it a correct bir. There is already a lot of inconsistency ith our history and dhumma is just adding to it.

So if they don;t sell it, it's ok? So if someone was do print one wihtou out raagmala but not sell it would tat be ok? obviously not, so stop justifying what dhumma is doing is correct. He isnt a panthic jathedar but self-proclaimed one, which half of taksal don;t even acknowledge. Is this the same dude who was sitting in Badal charan, givin him ladoo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Need to verify the source of those puraatan birs, just becasue it's old doesn;t make it a correct bir. There is already a lot of inconsistency ith our history.

the thing that we can say about puratan birs is they are are copies of orginials or copies of copies of originals. the further times goes, the more "copies of" are available and as minute mistakes creep in, 200 years down the road, the difference willbe more explicit.

and dhumma is just adding to it

if you look at the pictures that i have posted, then you will see that he, assuming he PERSONALLY did it, is not the first to have omitted it.

So if they don;t sell it, it's ok? So if someone was do print one wihtou out raagmala but not sell it would tat be ok? obviously not, so stop justifying what dhumma is doing is correct. He isnt a panthic jathedar but self-proclaimed one, which half of taksal don;t even acknowledge. Is this the same dude who was sitting in Badal charan, givin him ladoo?

As of the Panthic rule, no-one can create a Saroop of Aad Guru without Sri Raagmala. So technically as from the Panthic decision, there is no such thing as a Saroop without Sri Raagmala, from thereafter. There can be gutkas without Sri Raagmala though. There is one premi from the akj in Amritsar who i have read, has written out his own gutka sahib of all the banis from ek oankar to tan man theeve hariya. This he has done for its for his own personal use, and as he doesnt read Sri Raagmala, he has seen no reason to include it in his Gutka Sahib. This is at his house only, and he takes it nowhere. Now if he tried to get it Parkash at a Gurdwara or something, he would be violating the Panthic decision.

I just looked at the picture multiple times and correct me if I'm wrong, those pictures you posted confirm that Dhumma changed Gurbani?

If you compare the changed one by Dhumma it removed the dandian all together which is deliberate. If he had done it exactly like the ones you posted above do you really think there would have been a problem?

You either do it right, admit a mistake or expect to be seeing for what he is doing.

Lets read that line again, "You either do it right, admit a mistake or expect to be seeing for what he is doing."

Thanks singh 559, because i have had a look at my own gutka and have inc 2 photos of relevance for YOU especially, as you ran this omission issue originally, but for everyone else as well, enjoy:

sorry the photos have come out sideways, apologies for any strained necks.

post-8529-0-09705000-1356009676_thumb.jppost-8529-0-22250900-1356009709_thumb.jp

Now back to the discussion, who is going to say anything about Sant Jarnail Singh's panthic credentials? Singh 559 can start, seeing as he saw fit to run with the dogs...

Not trying to add fuel to the controversy, just pointing out this grave factual anomaly within the Taksaali material that seems to have occurred over the years.

Is it grave? It seems to me to be a mistake that has been happening for centuries. Maybe you have issues with taksal, just to point out the Taksal material has shortcomings?

So you can see that this omission is not the Fault of Baba Harnam Singh, but has been happening for some time know. Lets learn from this, THE MEDIA ISNT ALWAYS TRUE OR ACCURATE.

Any issues like this should be brought to this forum as academic research, not a witch hunt. We are all Sikhs, and our objective is to help each other progress, not push our own vindictiveness here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it grave? It seems to me to be a mistake that has been happening for centuries. Maybe you have issues with taksal, just to point out the Taksal material has shortcomings?

So you can see that this omission is not the Fault of Baba Harnam Singh, but has been happening for some time know. Lets learn from this, THE MEDIA ISNT ALWAYS TRUE OR ACCURATE.

Veerji, my last peshi was with Taksaali Panj Pyaare Sahibs so I doubt I have any issues with Taksaal. I was merely pointing out what to me is a very visible anomaly between two editions of the same Pothi sahib, but I did not make any inferences or conclusions as to who or what or why it happened. But challo, that is me clarifying my stand, I'm not here to argue with anyone and you are free to speculate about my loyalties as you wish.

Dhanvaad!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Veerji, my last peshi was with Taksaali Panj Pyaare Sahibs so I doubt I have any issues with Taksaal. I was merely pointing out what to me is a very visible anomaly between two editions of the same Pothi sahib, but I did not make any inferences or conclusions as to who or what or why it happened.

Bhaji, that is fine, who am i to question your credentials. I mistook that for a quote from gurvah, who's posts look like he has issues with the taksal, and somehow mixed your name in. apologies.

Bhaji can you explain what the "jap neesan " means, its the 1st time i has ever seen it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

here are another 2, the first of which has 2 lots of 2 dandia after "jap" attachicon.gifMoolmantar_guruarjan.jpg

This looks to be the opening of the Kartarpuri Bir which our Taksali Veers accept as scribed by Bhai Gurdas and supervised by Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Some even say this Mool Mantar is written by Guru Sahib himself.

If this is the case, the alterations to Gutkeh or Saroops whether done at the time of Baba Harnam Singh or Sant Jarnail Singh cannot be accepted as correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bhaji, that is fine, who am i to question your credentials. I mistook that for a quote from gurvah, who's posts look like he has issues with the taksal, and somehow mixed your name in. apologies.

Bhaji can you explain what the "jap neesan " means, its the 1st time i has ever seen it.

Koi Gal Nahi Veerji :hug:

I'm not sure about the exact meaning of 'Jap Neesan', maybe some learned Gurmukh soul can explain what it means jeo..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bhaji, that is fine, who am i to question your credentials. I mistook that for a quote from gurvah, who's posts look like he has issues with the taksal, and somehow mixed your name in. apologies.

Bhaji can you explain what the "jap neesan " means, its the 1st time i has ever seen it.

I don't have a problem with the conept of DDT, hav huge respect for the Sant Jarnail Singh, S. Kartar Singh, S. Gurbachan Singh etc, but think that a minority of today's DDT are giving the rest a bad name.

I don't really care if you read mool mantar long or short, read reharas short or long, read or dont read raagmala, belive keski is kakkar or not, hey, eat meat or not, but please do not go around preaching that is the way it should be, and if anyone other jathebandi does something which doesnt fit in with DDT marayda (even if it is in line with Akal takhat) it's beadbi.

You have giani takhur singh (patiala) preahing that people who only read mool mantar to gurparsad will go to hell.... WHAT? read gurbani and got hell??????? how can even BE right?

And then he said General Subeg singh was shaheed in his laps, when he left golden temple complex 4 days before he even got shaheed. Giani Takhur singh claimed that he became an aatmik shaheed first... first time ive heard that your aatmaa dies?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really care if you read mool mantar long or short, read reharas short or long, read or dont read raagmala, belive keski is kakkar or not, hey, eat meat or not, but please do not go around preaching that is the way it should be, and if anyone other jathebandi does something which doesnt fit in with DDT marayda (even if it is in line with Akal takhat) it's beadbi.

OK bro i see where you are coming from, and i agree that as a panth we have to accept that there is diversity in the panth, and that we are not automatically right just because we do something, or dont do something that the other sampdaye or jathas do/dont.

Wherever there are issues in the Panth, we should not only look but ACCEPT the verdict given by Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

There are diehard minoritys in every faction of the Sikh Panth today, but Sri Akal Sahai, we will some day soon, accept each other for being different, so this goes out to all the "gang" members.

I havent heard what Giani Thakur Singh has said, but lets look at the Mool Mantar issuse objectivley.

What has really got my goat on this topic, is that it is actually an excellent topic for discussion, as to what the dandia state, how they determine the status of that particular line, alone and within the context of the wider text, but no. Someone decided to have a go at Baba Harnam Singh with it, without being objective, but narrow-minded.

Brothers and sister, bring issues like this to the forum to discuss and learn, not to vilify anyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Is it the end of SGPC? I mean there’s one in Punjab, one in Haryana and Delhi.  Recently Hazur Sahib removed 2 members of it. It was a British creation in the 1920s.
    • In the uk we have Ramgharia gurdwaras, in some places ther are called Ramgharia sabha! However, I think most gurdwaras and even sikhs calling themselves "Ramgharia" are scamming us as they have weak or no connections to Ramgharia misl, and are just using the fact that they are tarkhans they can use the Ramgharia term because Jassa Singh Ramgharia was from tarkhan background. Please prove me wrong!   Also, I have been observing gurdwaras since I was young. I remember when I was a child in the 80s and 90s, Singh Sabha gurdwaras still allowed shoes and langar was eaten on tables, in the times when the adults used to work all the time, doing double shifts etc. However in the 2000s we can see a change in Singh Sabha gurdwaras as well as some other gurdwaras, where shoes are no longer allowed, and we have a lot of space to sit on the floor and do pangat in langar.  It's really strange to see so many tables in gurdwaras after seeing langar done exclusivily on the floor gurdwaras in Panjab and India. Just look at Harimandir Sahib, 4 takht, and many other gurdwaras back home. Now, across London, Slough and Berkshire, midlands, I have noticed Ramgharia gurdwaras allow shoes into langar and have little or no accommodation for sitting on the floor. It is bizarre to see in Ramgharia gurdwaras, the sangat coming from doing sangat or matha tek in divan hall, and then putting on their shoes to go to langar. Like we are going to a restaurant or something! What is this, is it some kind of kenya/east africa sikh colonial army era tradition to keep doing this, even after the other gurdwaras have moved back to giving satkar and respect for langar maryada? Then we come to the scam, in the Ramgharia gurdwaras, there seems to be more links to East Africa sikhs than Ramgharia misl. There are more trim Singhs with Kenya paghs on Ramgharia gurdwara committees compared to more sabat surat Singhs on Singh sabha committees, from my observations in these England regions. You will find more kenya pagh and trim or fixo darhi, than bana walay Singh in these gurdwaras, again the Ramgharia label is scamming us, as Ramgharia is used for sabat soorat Singhs from the misl, especially those tuned to bana (and open beard is part of bana). Also, I have listened to Rehraas Sahib in some Ramgharia gurdwaras, and they read the disfigured bhasauria SGPC style of Chaupai Sahib (such as the way performed at Harimandir Sahib the past 100 years), skipping arril and the last lines of kabyo baach benti, which makes them more like a Singh Sabha gurdwara and far removed from being Ramgharia due to having similar disrespect towarda bani as Singh sabha gurdwaras, as Ramgharia misl would respect dasam bani and read the full kabyo baach benti. So the langar thing is bizarre, and now I think of it it's disrespectful. And the use of Ramgharia sikhs and Ramgharia gurdwaras term is a scam as they are anything but, as there is so much disrespect to be associated with the practices of Ramgharia misl! Even the fact they celebrate Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgharia's birthday doesn't allow them any forgiveness or courtesy! This goes double for the Slough Ramgharia Singh Sabha, as they have a statue of Jassa Singh Ramgharia, and yet are their actions related to actual Ramgharia? Yeh, let's not fall for the scam! and sikhs that are sangat in those gurdwaras, really need to step up and get in those committees and change things for chardi kala! We need to see more chardikala Singhs running things, not trim Singhs and fixo Singhs!
    • Japji Sahib can be done anytime within 24 hours, but ideal time is before breakfast.  Ardaas after is optional but if you can make it necessary will be ideal. When it comes to paat more the merrier.  Meat / alc should be in separate rooms to Gutke Sahibs. It is possible no matter how small the house. WAIT! Isn't all food in the kitchen??  You can still do paat after meat n alc. Nothing wrong there... just wash yer hands! (Obviously). 
    • Apparently he's now on Grindr   https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0y2fmFsd_z/?igsh=MWc2c3NxNHl5cnIwZw==
    • This site is now blocked on my work computer, when the security app zensar is being used. So I'm not very active anymore as I usually go on forums when I'm working or studying! 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use