Neeldhari Samprada Documentary

[N30S1NGH]

I see we are getting into my sant/bhai/gyani/jathedar is better than yours discussion..not my cup of tea..its job for over zealous cultish chelas to fight over it..i am done with this thread.

[Guest]

Mods please close this thread...

[Only five]

No need to close threads..............I said what I wanted to say......if another wants to have a go at me.........does not matter as those words hold no weight. :biggrin2:

[DSGj]

Typical tactic some people on these forums have.....

as soon as your guys' views/claims are thrown out of the window, you guys start begging mods to close the thread.

Even the wives of pitaji thread got closed as did a few others in which myself along with others tried to bring forth decent arguments and created a decent discussion.

I see we are getting into my sant/bhai/gyani/jathedar is better than yours discussion..not my cup of tea..its job for over zealous cultish chelas to fight over it..i am done with this thread.

There are no over zealous chelas except for the ones drooling over the thousands of so-called sants.

[DSGj]

Couple of points dasamsarblohgranth

1. Those orders of speak of , they are traditional orders they already are accepted by khalsa panth both puratan- budda dal and sgpc and present sri akaal takth sahib jathedar- search youtube- nirmale/udasi seminar with jathedar gurbachan singh ji highlighting contributions of them. Here is the bit glimpse of the video

If you have issue with them please present your case to sri akaal takth sahib.

2. You keep mentioning names of sant jarnail singh bhindranwale and bhai sahib bhai sahib randhir singh ji as if sikhi started with them and ended with them..no doubt they were great mahapurkhs but at the same point you are also saying - lets stop drolling over sants..bit contradictory don't you think? why? ..Are we getting into mine sant is better than yours discussion..there are quite bit of equally same avastha wale sant diversity in the panth and lets leave it that. Don't want to fight sant silly wars.

3. I have no problem with any sants but i do have a issue with over zealous chelas mindet of any sant be it nirmala, taksali, akj, dodra, nihangs, sevapanthis, neeldhari, naamdhari etcc etc etc

Here is crystal clear view on sants after my research and spent time with them

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70296-going-to-sants/?p=568849

Some points....

• Oh...are we talking about the same Jathedars who are already very controversial and haven't really done anything for the panth? The same ones who gave Badal that honourary title, etc? The same ones who gave the neeldhari baba a puratan shastar from Khajana of Takhat Sahib? The same Jathedars who were put infront of camera and video and glorified by the neeldhari baba? The same Jathedars who were flown in and paid for to be part of Panj Piaarey for the baba and chela's Amrit Sanchar? That same Amrit Sanchar which was potentially video recorded and glorifying pictures taken? I can keep on going...
• And also ...

2. You keep mentioning names of sant jarnail singh bhindranwale and bhai sahib bhai sahib randhir singh ji as if sikhi started with them and ended with them..no doubt they were great mahapurkhs but at the same point you are also saying - lets stop drolling over sants..bit contradictory don't you think? why? ..Are we getting into mine sant is better than yours discussion..there are quite bit of equally same avastha wale sant diversity in the panth and lets leave it that. Don't want to fight sant silly wars.

• How is it contradictory? On one hand are some of the greatest Gursikhs ever....and on the other hand I won't even say anything to give a description. You look at their lives and compare...you will see who is deserving to be drooled over, praised and served as per true respect of a Sant.
• Real Sant STANDS UP against corruption and oppression.......the rest just run away. Look at the lives and then you will see. How many so-called Sants ever stood up? There are thousands of so-called babas, yet none ever did anything except enjoy their own life while Sikh Panth is getting diluted and deteriorating.

This pavitar vakh is been misused by groups and people by confining it to only outer rehat. I have never seen single person or parchariks to talk about inner rehat when they mention this shabad. They are without any question or doubt confining sikhi in a box- they are guilty of this and are also hypocrites of not talking about rehat in its totality. But they still do it, because its very easy to follow outer rehit ..but inner rehit different ball game..they themselves cannot do to its fullest

What about inner rehat-

"Another observation i see among youths, everyone is talking about being tyar bar tyar externally, talk about wearin 9 inch kirpan or 1 foot..but no one likes to talk about how big or sharp is their internal shastars (sat, santokh, gyan, dya, sam dristh) to fight with kam, krodh, lob, moh, ahankar ..i guess outer appearance sells eh? to recruit? yo thats chardikalah singh yo look at his shastars, dumalla yo yo..these days among youths, someone spirituality is measured by how big one dumalla is or big their kirpan, how big is their kara is..pretty lame, superfical if you ask me without inner shastars, without inner dharam yudh outer shastar is only adorned as dogmatic ritual...Khalsa needs both..!!"

Whole point of outer rehat so that it helps with inner rehat or goes inwardly, Sants already have fought major dharam yudh inside with sukhsham inner shastars/kirpan- sat, santokh, gyan, dya, sam dristh (panj shastars) and killed the enemy - kam, krodh, lob, moh, ahankar with their inner kirpan/shastars while chamdristh people judge others based on the outer bhek.

Sants topic aside, on one hand, you have people focus entirely on outer rehat, and on other hand you have students focus on inner rehat only. Although inner rehat is aim- outer rehat cannot be ignored fully and its there to help if need.. Until right balance is striked there would always arguments and bickering. So lets all work on stuff we all lack focus on both inner rehit and outer rehit.

• I gave two examples of those who were perfect on outer and inner Rehit (Baba Jarnail Singh Jee, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee).
• That is the way true a Gursikh is. Let's stop making excuse for those who don't keep full Rehit/way of life permanently put into place by Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

here people are talking about sants.. please see what bhai gurdas ji ( a sant in the times of our gurus ) has written about a sikh, the UPMA of a sikh is so much, think, how much will UPMA pf a sant be..

ਨਖ ਸਿਖ ਲਉ ਸਗਲ ਅੰਗ ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਾਟਿ ਸਿਖਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਪਰ ਵਾਰੀਐ ।

Nakh Sikh Lau Sagal Ang Rom Rom Kari , Kaati Kaati Sikhan Kay Charan Par Vaareeai ।

नख सिख लउ सगल अंग रोम रोम करि काटि काटि सिखन के चरन पर वारीऐ ।

If I cut every part of my body from nails to the top of my head into the size of a hair and sacrifice them over the holy feet of the Sikhs of Guru'

ਅਗਨਿ ਜਲਾਇ ਫੁਨਿ ਪੀਸਨ ਪੀਸਾਇ ਤਾਂਹਿ ਲੈ ਉਡੇ ਪਵਨ ਹੁਇ ਅਨਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੀਐ ।

Agani Jalaai Dhouni Peesan Peesaai Taanhi , Lai Uday Pavan Hui Anik Prakaareeai ।

अगनि जलाइ फुनि पीसन पीसाइ तांहि लै उडे पवन हुइ अनिक प्रकारीऐ ।

And then these cut parts are burnt in fire, ground to ashes in a mill-stone and these ashes are blown all over by the wind;

2 ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੬੭੨ ਪੰ. ੨

ਜਤ ਕਤ ਸਿਖ ਪਗ ਧਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਾਤ ਤਾਹੂ ਤਾਹੂ ਮਾਰਗ ਮੈ ਭਸਮ ਕੈ ਡਾਰੀਐ ।

Jat Kat Sikh Pag Dharai Gur Pand Praata , Taahoo Taahoo Maarag Mai Bhasam Kai Daareeai ।

जत कत सिख पग धरै गुर पंथ प्रात ताहू ताहू मारग मैभसम कै डारीऐ ।

Spread these ashes of my body on the paths leading to the door of the True Guru, that the Sikhs of the Guru take at the ambrosial hour;

3 ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੬੭੨ ਪੰ. ੩

ਤਿਹ ਪਦ ਪਾਦਕ ਚਰਨ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਰਹੈ ਦਯਾ ਕੈ ਦਯਾਲ ਮੋਹਿ ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰੀਐ ॥੬੭੨॥

Tih Pad Paadak Charan Liv Laagee Rahai , Dayaa Kai Dayaal Mohi Patit Udhaareeai ॥672॥

तिह पद पादक चरन लिव लागी रहै दया कै दयाल मोहि पतित उधारीऐ ॥६७२॥

So that the touch of the feet of the Sikhs treading that path may keep me engrossed in the remembrance of my Lord. I may then pray before these Gursikhs to take me·-the sinner across the worldly ocean. (672)

4 ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੬੭੨ ਪੰ. ੪

• Please man.......be real.
• Stop twisting Gurbani for your own twisted views/hatred.
• You come on here posting Gurbani in almost every post of yours.....yet you are so fake that you needed to make another account in order to show baba support in this thread.
• First apply that Gurbani on yourself....then talk.

[DSGj]

Another video to watch/listen to.

Very crucial....you will see......the ones who were TRUE and STOOD UP and were on the side of the PANTH.......they were the ones who were always hunted down like rare/almost-extict species.

Dhan Dhan Giani Sant Singh Maskeen Jee.

[Singh559]

DasamSarblohGranth, great posts paji!

[DSGj]

You guys keep on loving to say ninda this, ninda that.

And I keep on saying....truth is never ninda.
:smile2:

ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

Saarang, Fifth Mehl:

ਅੰਧੇ ਖਾਵਹਿ ਬਿਸੂ ਕੇ ਗਟਾਕ ॥

He is so blind! He is eating loads of poison.

ਨੈਨ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਸਭੁ ਹੁਟਿਓ ਸਾਸੁ ਗਇਓ ਤਤ ਘਾਟ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

.

His eyes, ears and body are totally exhausted; he shall lose his breath in an instant. ||1||Pause||

ਅਨਾਥ ਰਞਾਣਿ ਉਦਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੋਖਹਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਗਈਆ ਹਾਟਿ ॥

Making the poor suffer, he fills his belly, but the wealth of Maya shall not go with him.

ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਕਰਤ ਕਰਤ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਹਿ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਸਾਕਹਿ ਛਾਂਟਿ ॥੧॥

Committing sinful mistakes again and again, he regrets and repents, but he can never give them up. ||1||

ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਜਮਦੂਤੀ ਆਇ ਸੰਘਾਰਿਓ ਦੇਵਹਿ ਮੂੰਡ ਉਪਰਿ ਮਟਾਕ ॥

The Messenger of Death comes to slaughter the slanderer; he beats him on his head.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਨ ਕਟਾਰੀ ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਲਾਈ ਮਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਨੋ ਫਾਟ ॥੨॥੮੨॥੧੦੫॥

O Nanak, he cuts himself with his own dagger, and damages his own mind. ||2||82||105||

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਕੰਨਿ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਸੂਫੁ ਗਲਿ ਦਿਲਿ ਕਾਤੀ ਗੁੜੁ ਵਾਤਿ ॥ Fareed, you wear your prayer shawl on your shoulders and the robes of a Sufi; your words are sweet, but there is a dagger in your heart.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਦਿਸੈ ਚਾਨਣਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੀ ਰਾਤਿ ॥੫੦॥

Outwardly, you look bright, but your heart is dark as night. ||50||

ਮਃ ੧ ॥

मः १ ॥

Mėhlā 1.

First Mehl:

ਕਮਰਿ ਕਟਾਰਾ ਬੰਕੁੜਾ ਬੰਕੇ ਕਾ ਅਸਵਾਰੁ ॥

A beautiful dagger hangs by your waist, and you ride such a beautiful horse.

ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਮਤੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਭਾਰੁ ॥੩॥

But don't be too proud; O Nanak, you may fall head first to the ground. ||3||

[DSGj]

Part 6 of 6

[N30S1NGH]

Some points....

Oh...are we talking about the same Jathedars who are already very controversial and haven't really done anything for the panth? The same ones who gave Badal that honourary title, etc? The same ones who gave the neeldhari baba a puratan shastar from Khajana of Takhat Sahib? The same Jathedars who were put infront of camera and video and glorified by the neeldhari baba? The same Jathedars who were flown in and paid for to be part of Panj Piaarey for the baba and chela's Amrit Sanchar? That same Amrit Sanchar which was potentially video recorded and glorifying pictures taken? I can keep on going..

Regarding panthic matters sri singh sahib jathedar gurbachan singh ji usually consult jathedars of all takhts before making an decision..yes everyone should be put under scruntiy, yes he did wrong when giving badal honory title but you cannot use example to reject his jeevan and his decision totally..thats short sighted..now he is being used as pawn by singhs abroad- use sri akaal takth jathedar whenever it suits them..on one hand singhs abroad seek his intervention regarding dhundha and other heretics and on another hand same singhs reject his authority whenever it does not suit to them..hypocrisy in its finest.

How is it contradictory? On one hand are some of the greatest Gursikhs ever....and on the other hand I won't even say anything to give a description. You look at their lives and compare...you will see who is deserving to be drooled over, praised and served as per true respect of a Sant.

Real Sant STANDS UP against corruption and oppression.......the rest just run away. Look at the lives and then you will see. How many so-called Sants ever stood up? There are thousands of so-called babas, yet none ever did anything except enjoy their own life while Sikh Panth is getting diluted and deteriorating.

You obviously haven't understood concept of hakum completey, whoever its destined to become sant soorma becomes.. its seva which is given by guru maharaj and since you haven't understood concept of hakum you may have preconceived notions..sant jarnail singh picked up dharam yudh morcha when he got darshan of sri guru gobind singh in hazoor sahib and got his permission.. So in your mind any sant who were silent regarding corruption and opression occuring else where or in town is not real sant? wow what a logic..so lets go through list..so you are implying sant bishan singh ji Muralewale, sant sunder singh ji bhindranwale, sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale, sant thakur singh ji (jathedars of taksal were not real sants because they didn't proactively stood up against corruption and opression?

I gave two examples of those who were perfect on outer and inner Rehit (Baba Jarnail Singh Jee, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee).

As i said earlier with all due respect to mahapurkhs, sikhi didn't started with them or ended with them..not sure bhai sahib ji but sant jarnail singh bhindranwale had immense respect towards diversity of panth and sampardavas maryada- nirmale, udasi, sevapanthis, nihang mahapursh..went to toronto taksal jathedar house over the weekend, they understand diversity aspect in the panth and have satkar of all mahapursh not just their own, have immense respect towards various different maryada of traditional sampardavas they even personal collection of nirmale and udasi ...its only handful who idiolize one aspect of sant jarnail singh life and use him to spread their idiolized sharia parchar.

Panth is garden of sri guru nanak dev ji where all flowers co exist, gardener(guru maharaj) give water to its garden with one non dual dristhi...some factions within singh sabha hated any kind of diversity in the panth..rest everyones knows.

Here is video of nihang bhai balbir singh ji