A new opinion on Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh's Death

[Guest noonespecial]

This is nothing new. I've heard about this opinion before. Apparently this argument is also used for Lareedaar Saroop. The reasoning being that Bhai Mani Singh Jee "cut up" Gurbani and in turn faced the same punishment.

I'm not SUPPORTING this view, just letting the sangat know that this is nothing new.

I personally say that Bhai Mani Singh Jee's Shaheedi was SACRIFICE....NOT punishment.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Bijla Singh]

Deep Singh Ji, the discussion is about whether this story is true or not. discussion is not about what we learn from this story. by coming up with some "message" of the story we are also putting down the shaheedi of Bhai Sahib. If Guru Ji gave blessing of shaheedi to bhai sahib then did guru ji say "i bless you with gift of shaheedi for reorganizing Gurbani"? hard to believe. Bhai Sahib Ji stayed with Guru Ji since childhood, knew Gursikhi inside out, wrote Guru Granth Sahib Ji and knew exactly how Guru Ji wanted him to write. Gursikh like him wouldn't make such a mistake. Why didn't he ask Guru Ji to write Bani according to Gurus and then Bhagats? What year did he do it in? He was never alone at Darbar Sahib so who else took part in it? Bhai Raam Kaur Ji (Gurbakash Singh) was a great kathavaachak during those times and was very near to Bhai Sahib. Where was he when Bhai Sahib Ji did it? Why didn't he consult Baba Deep Singh Ji or any other great Gursikhs? did he want to surprise them all?

I have read this story in a history book and it sounds horrible just imagining how Bhai Sahib would've done it. So basically, he removed the "jilad" or hardcover, all the pages were separated and then reorganized so how did the numbering go on pages? 1,2,3,7,58...something like this? seems illogical. or to have page numbers in order he probably rewrote the whole bani and made it a new saroop. right? If the saroop exists then provide details. what year was it written in? who got ahold of it and who kept it for all these centuries? how is the page number system? During those difficult times, Mughals went from house to house, killed Sikhs, banned on usin

g the word "Gur" threw many saroops and books in the rivers. how did this manage to survive if this saroop was at someone's house? Damdami Bir Sahib was lost in Wadda Ghalughara. Whatever Khalsa Panth kept survived. Nothing was safe in any house. so if this saroop survived then Khalsa Panth must have kept it which is not true.

I can come up with any story to malign some gursikh's shaheedi but cannot justify it by saying the message we learn is great. We must look at if this story makes sense and it does not. good messages come from good stories. This is all what I think. I have strong belief that Bhai Sahib Ji never did anything like this. If you really wanted to learn what happens when you mess with bani then you would look at Sobha Singh and Bhasaurs. They were punished. Why didn't Akal Takhat bless them with Shaheedi too? a Sikh changes bani and he gets shaheedi. what a sinful way to get blessings.

and sukhsingh, I never read anything on ddt.com. even if I assume Guru Ji never said anything to Bhai Mani Singh Ji about shaheedi that still does not mean Bhai Sahib Ji reorganized Bani. and I am not interested in knowing your "nidar nang" version of history. If sangat cursed Bhai Sahib then obviously he received punishment not shaheedi. If you wanted to debate you would've provided details. btw, some of posts still await your answers.

Bottom Line, you mess with Bani you are punished not blessed with shaheedi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[raj_karega_khalsa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bijla singh, u dont know what the hell u r talking abuot. ur just reading damdamitaksal.com

sukhsingh ji, if you dont agree with what Bijla Singh ji sed, then y cant you say wut u think nicely, with pyar.... theres no need for calling him a loser....n how would you kno if hes reading tha website? think b4 you speak

it is "said" that they cursed him

n sikhi doesn't believe in curses

bhull chak maff karni

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Deep Singh]

Good reply Bijla Singh Ji. Some research needs to be done.

i am of the view that the story may or may not be true, my above post gives a 'possible' teaching that this story gives.

[Simran9]

Chhibbar never said THIS IS TRUE. It is simply his opinion most likely.

For those of u who think his thinking is wrong in respect to Bhai Mani Singh's death, I highly suggest you read the book that I posted as my source for the info.

All the questions you have regarding the earlier pothis that were written by Guru sahibans and Kartarpur pothi and Adi Granth, Kanpur pothi, etc------> you will find the answer in this book: who wrote it and when.

No Bhai Mani Singh did not take out the jild and rearrange the pages! He made a second copy and changed the order in his copy.

Kartarpur pothi was written by Guru ARjan Dev ji.

Kanpur pothi was written by Bhai Banno, it is a copy of Kartarpur pothi but there are some differences. Now you tell me, Bhai Banno was a Gursikh juz like BHai Mani Singh ji, would he do this on purpose? WHy would he change gurbani, and then it is not possible for BHai Mani Singh ji to do the same? Is it not possible for human error? Only God is free from error.

Guru Harsahi is the very first pothi ever written to contain gurbani. This is believed to be a set of 4, but none are extant. The family which had these had 2 left and these pothis were stolen on the train ride when the family was returnin to their village. Guru HArsahai pothis are believed to be in the United STates or Europe, most likely in somebody's private collection.

Don't tell me that Kartarpur pothi is the first, it's not.

Human error can occur. God does not make errors. He does things for a reason. Remember this is all His "khel," He pulls the stings.

If Kartarpur pothi was closed for additions and fixes, does that

mean that even a Guru is not allowed to add more Gurbani to it? It is closed to ppl that make attempts at interpolating their own bani.

MAnn has analyzed the previous authors writings regarding puraatan birs/pothis. They have all seen the puraatan birs/ pothis and studied them for scholarly reasons to record in history the evolutionary process of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI. YOu doubt me, GO READ IT! You don't believe him, GO READ IT. Proof is given in the form of examples as well, tables and diagrams. I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND U READ THE BOOK!

[Singhstah]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

saying by mani singh ji's shaheedi was a punishment doesnt is illogical,shaheedi is a gift it is not given as a punishment, only very lucky Gursikhs get shaheedi you dont get shaheedi for soing something bad,so if bhai mani singh ji did reorganise gurbani he wouldnt have been given shaheedi.

Dhan Dhan Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji

[SunSingh]

"Kanpur pothi was written by Bhai Banno, it is a copy of Kartarpur pothi but there are some differences. Now you tell me, Bhai Banno was a Gursikh juz like BHai Mani Singh ji, would he do this on purpose? WHy would he change gurbani, and then it is not possible for BHai Mani Singh ji to do the same? Is it not possible for human error? Only God is free from error."

Didn't Bhai Banno refuse to obey the Guru's Hukum? If so, wouldn't that make him very different from a singh who followed every hukum and was even one of the first punj pyare?

Damdami Bir was the last one. Sorry bout that. No changes allowed after that one.

[Bijla Singh]

Kanpur pothi was written by Bhai Banno, it is a copy of Kartarpur pothi but there are some differences.

explain difference. as far as I know, this Bir Sahib was signed by Guru Ji right after raag maala. one shabad of bhai surdas and meera bayee come after raag maala and then otehr stuff. Bhai Mani SIngh Ji's saroop (IF he ever wrote one) is not approved so there is no comparison between the two. First pothi ever written was by Guru Nanak Dev Ji Himself. All the pothis were at Mohan's house which Guru Ji collected to compile Bir Sahib.

Is it not possible for human error?

keep in mind who we are talking about here. Bhai Mani Singh Ji who stayed with Guru Ji since childhood and received so many blessings. He wasn't any ordinary person.

If Kartarpur pothi was closed for additions and fixes, does that mean that even a Guru is not allowed to add more Gurbani to it?

Guru Ji left space for t

he Bani to be added later. Only Guru Ji had the right to add more Bani. He did not make any changes. After Guruship was passed no additions were allowed. Guru Ji did not even add His dohras by saying that "Granth" is complete.

They have all seen the puraatan birs/ pothis and studied them for scholarly reasons to record in history the evolutionary process of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI.

Did they also notice that puratan saroops have one Dohra of tenth Nanak Ji and "Paatshahi 10" is clearly written. New saroops don't have this.

Oh and so called some books, I have a book which says Guru Arjan Dev Ji was not first shaheed in SIkhi. It goes on explaining who was first shaheed and his name is given. How that Sikh became shaheed is also explained. That does not mean, I am going to believe in all those details just because it is something new and therefore, must be true. I will keep the author's name secret because I think some people will be offended on this forum.

Again, if the book is true and the saroop exists then surely Bhai Sahib was punished which does not make him a shaheed. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Banda Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Khalsa Jee,

There seems to be many misconceptions in some of the posts regarding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and adulterated copies, to clear them you should read the eBook -

Adi Birh Barai - About Compilation of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib

If you do not want to read the whole eBook then read -

Facts About Compilation of Adi Guru Granth Sahib

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Deep Singh]

Thanks for the link bhaji! So the ebook is finally there..