Minimum Age Of Marriage In Sikhi - Rehat?

[DalbirSingh]

What is the minimum age of marriage prescribed in sikhi by rehats?

Just to answer this question mainly? This is a rebuttal to Sikhs saying Islam is false due to muhammad commiting pedophilla with aisha, his answer is sikhi doesn't say pedophilla isn't wrong so it must be okay.

http://www.islam-sikhism.info/rebut/paedo01.htm

And we conclude with the following challenge as Allah informs us to: "Produce your evidences if you speak the truth" (Qur'an 2:111):

Provide us with a clear proof from Sri Guru Granth Sahib that establishes when the right time for marriage is.

If the said Sikhs are unable to meet this challenge, but still have the audacity to claim that such and such an age of marriage is wrong, we say that you are not only claiming to be more knowledgeable than your ten Gurus and God, but you are no different to the atheists.
Why?

• There is not a single verse in SGGS that answers the above question. Hence, the Gurus' silence is an acceptance of the social customs of marriage during their time, since if it was wrong, it is safe to assume they would have forbidden it and castigated the practitioners. However, any Sikh looking to contradict the silence of the Gurus is not only claiming greater knowledge than them, but also implying their silent acceptance of such marriages was wrong and that these post-modern Sikhs are correct! [13]
• In following their vain desires, the atheists seek to formulate and invent edicts and laws based upon nothing but their limited and flawed intellects. Indeed, the atheists are more true to their beliefs than those Sikhs who arrogantly declare things to be right and wrong. Why? Because the atheists naturally reject the existence of an all-Wise Creator; these Sikhs, however, even after claiming to believe in an all-Wise Creator, have the temerity of seeking to play the role of the all-Wise by forwarding what they deem to be right and wrong, good and evil without any Divine guidance whatsoever.

Allaah says: "Indeed they are a quarrelsome lot." (Qur'an 43:58)

[Only five]

Satguru has taught us better. If a Sikh was in Muhammads position he would have treated her as his daughter and then married her off when it was appropriate to another Sikh, who was of similar age. Sikhs are not like Muhammad who waited around 3 years to release his animal frustration on a 9 year old when he is above the age of 40.

[Mehtab Singh]

You may want to share the story about a Pathan girl called Bano who made her way into Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa's tent after the Singhs had defeated the Pashtuns in what is today known as NWFP. She expressed her desire to bear his sons. Sardar Nalwa ji, who had been calling her as "beti" (daughter) was furious, and asked her to get lost. She left with tears, and tauntingly said that no one ever goes empty-handed from a Sikh's home, but today I am. He stopped her, placed an expensive shawl on her head, respectfully touched her knees, and with folded hands he said "You wanted a son like Nalwa, from today Hari Singh is your son". Historians have noted that all his life Sardar Nalwa ji called this young teenaged girl as "maata jee".

The character of a true GurSikh is higher than these online extremists can ever turn their head upwards and look at. This was, and even today this is the character of GurSikhs who have kirpa of SatGuru Jee. With all due respect, Muslims need to realize that Gurbani is much more than a mere book of rules. It is the divine word of Akaal Purakh uttered by those who on a spiritual level were One with Him, i.e. no difference between them and Him, i.e. BrahmGyanis. As Sikhs, our aims, our goals, our targets, our destinations are higher than the 7th heaven. Carnal pleasures of the flesh are the last things that are of concern to a true GurSikh.

The kind of questions some fanatics have in mind about Gurbani is like a 4th grade kid who is poor in science refusing to believe what is taught in PhD level Physics. This guy is searching Gurbani for the most appropriate age of marriage. Well first he needs to know how Gurbani defines marriage. Marriage is between Atma and Parmatma, all other worldly relationships are seen as temporary. In Islam, correct me if I am wrong, but marriage is some sort of a contract? Now how do we explain a spiritually deep concept such as the roohaani wedding of the jeevatma and Parmatma when someone's definition of marriage is no more than a piece of paper? I guess these people will have to be convinced to come out of their boxes and understand the context of Gurmat. Sitting like a frog in the well is not going to help.

The only reference in Gurbani to this Adeeba guy's version of marriage is here...

ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Tilang, First Mehl:

ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo.
ਪਾਪ ਕੀ ਜੰਞ ਲੈ ਕਾਬਲਹੁ ਧਾਇਆ ਜੋਰੀ ਮੰਗੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ Bringing the marriage party of sin, Babar has invaded from Kaabul, demanding our land as his wedding gift, O Lalo.
ਸਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਇ ਛਪਿ ਖਲੋਏ ਕੂੜੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ Modesty and righteousness both have vanished, and falsehood struts around like a leader, O Lalo.
ਕਾਜੀਆ ਬਾਮਣਾ ਕੀ ਗਲ ਥਕੀ ਅਗਦੁ ਪੜੈ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ The Qazis and the Brahmins have lost their roles, and Satan now conducts the marriage rites, O Lalo.
ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੀਆ ਪੜਹਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਕਸਟ ਮਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ The Muslim women read the Koran, and in their misery, they call upon God, O Lalo.
ਜਾਤਿ ਸਨਾਤੀ ਹੋਰਿ ਹਿਦਵਾਣੀਆ ਏਹਿ ਭੀ ਲੇਖੈ ਲਾਇ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ The Hindu women of high social status, and others of lowly status as well, are put into the same category, O Lalo.
ਖੂਨ ਕੇ ਸੋਹਿਲੇ ਗਾਵੀਅਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਤੁ ਕਾ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਪਾਇ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥੧॥ The wedding songs of murder are sung, O Nanak, and blood is sprinkled instead of saffron, O Lalo. ||1||
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਮਾਸ ਪੁਰੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਖੁ ਮਸੋਲਾ ॥ Nanak sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord and Master in the city of corpses, and voices this account.
ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਵਾਈ ਬੈਠਾ ਵੇਖੈ ਵਖਿ ਇਕੇਲਾ ॥ The One who created, and attached the mortals to pleasures, sits alone, and watches this.
ਸਚਾ ਸੋ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਚੁ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਸਚੜਾ ਨਿਆਉ ਕਰੇਗੁ ਮਸੋਲਾ ॥ The Lord and Master is True, and True is His justice. He issues His Commands according to His judgment.
ਕਾਇਆ ਕਪੜੁ ਟੁਕੁ ਟੁਕੁ ਹੋਸੀ ਹਿਦੁਸਤਾਨੁ ਸਮਾਲਸੀ ਬੋਲਾ ॥ The body-fabric will be torn apart into shreds, and then India will remember these words.
ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ॥ Coming in seventy-eight (1521 A.D.), they will depart in ninety-seven (1540 A.D.), and then another disciple of man will rise up.
ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਸੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥੨॥੩॥੫॥ Nanak speaks the Word of Truth; he proclaims the Truth at this, the right time. ||2||3||5||

[DalbirSingh]

Mehtab it still doesn't answer the question of age of consent

[Mehtab Singh]

Damdami Taksal Maryada: http://www.vidhia.com/Rehat%20Maryada/Gurmat_Rehat_Maryada_-_Damdami_Taksal.pdf

Ideally, the bride should be about four years younger than the bridegroom.

[Mehtab Singh]

Lets think about this logically Dalbir Singh. We do admit that we're not originating from a 7th century desert culture, don't we? Guru Sahib has said

ਅਕਲਿ ਏਹ ਨ ਆਖੀਐ ਅਕਲਿ ਗਵਾਈਐ ਬਾਦਿ ॥

Wisdom which leads to arguments is not called wisdom.

ਅਕਲੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ ॥

Wisdom leads us to serve our Lord and Master; through wisdom, honor is obtained.

ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ ॥

Wisdom does not come by reading textbooks; wisdom inspires us to give in charity.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰਾਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਗਲਾਂ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ॥੧॥

Says Nanak, this is the Path; other things lead to Satan. ||1||

Lets try to think over this based on the wisdom in Gurbani, as our own wisdom can take us towards manmat. Guru Sahib blessed us with Gurbani so that we could free our minds from all "bharams" and think wisely. So now please correct me where I go wrong and wherever my own "wisdom" fails me, lol.

We do agree that child marriage is not something Gurmat stands for, right? Guru Sahib, in His Eternal Wisdom, knew His Sikhs would be intelligent enough to decide which age is appropriate for marriage. Guru Sahib knew that His Sikhs would travel to far off countries and fly the Khalsa flag even there with pride. He knew they would take refuge in Gurbani and take wise decisions. Sorry, I can't give you or this Adeeba guy a number, can't give an age which according to Sikhi is best to get married because I am myself not aware of it, and so I look to Gurbani to guide me even if it is indirectly.

Back in India, I think it is usually late 20s if you're living in the cities, and maybe early 20s if you're in rural regions. In the west it is not uncommon to get married after you've hit 30. In India, last time I checked, the law says a boy has to be 21 and girl has to be 18 in order to get married. I am not too sure about Western law in different Western countries, but whatever it says, we do have to abide by the law as law abiding citizens/inhabitants of the land. Am I right?

My point is, Guru Sahib was confident that His wise Sikhs would be wise enough to decide. Not sure if Muhammad felt the same about his Muslim disciples. Guru Sahib banned the veil because He was confident His Sikhs would be of high character and integrity and wouldn't covet another man's wife. Muhammad obviously knew the nature of his followers. Let us respect the confidence Guru Sahib had in us and let us live upto it. Those who ask us these kinds of questions are only out to find flaws in Sikhi. The bad breaking news for them is that while their founding fathers unfortunately left them in shackles, Guru Sahib freed us from whatever ills and evils (perhaps child marriage?) prevailed in society.

If someone asked me, I would honestly say "Dude, you are ready to get married once you've completed your education, employed as a professional and are financially well off to support a family, ready to take on the commitments of married life", because this is what I have personally derived from Gurbani, its just my opinion and I can be incorrect. Someone else may have a different version.

I still don't know if this answers your question, but in my opinion we would have to study, understand and implement Gurbani in our daily life to be able to understand these matters and take corresponding decisions. Let us know what is your take on this, and if you find what Gurmat's stand is, please be sure to share.

[DalbirSingh]

Lets think about this logically Dalbir Singh. We do admit that we're not originating from a 7th century desert culture, don't we? Guru Sahib has said

Lets try to think over this based on the wisdom in Gurbani, as our own wisdom can take us towards manmat. Guru Sahib blessed us with Gurbani so that we could free our minds from all "bharams" and think wisely. So now please correct me where I go wrong and wherever my own "wisdom" fails me, lol.

We do agree that child marriage is not something Gurmat stands for, right? Guru Sahib, in His Eternal Wisdom, knew His Sikhs would be intelligent enough to decide which age is appropriate for marriage. Guru Sahib knew that His Sikhs would travel to far off countries and fly the Khalsa flag even there with pride. He knew they would take refuge in Gurbani and take wise decisions. Sorry, I can't give you or this Adeeba guy a number, can't give an age which according to Sikhi is best to get married because I am myself not aware of it, and so I look to Gurbani to guide me even if it is indirectly.

Back in India, I think it is usually late 20s if you're living in the cities, and maybe early 20s if you're in rural regions. In the west it is not uncommon to get married after you've hit 30. In India, last time I checked, the law says a boy has to be 21 and girl has to be 18 in order to get married. I am not too sure about Western law in different Western countries, but whatever it says, we do have to abide by the law as law abiding citizens/inhabitants of the land. Am I right?

My point is, Guru Sahib was confident that His wise Sikhs would be wise enough to decide. Not sure if Muhammad felt the same about his Muslim disciples. Guru Sahib banned the veil because He was confident His Sikhs would be of high character and integrity and wouldn't covet another man's wife. Muhammad obviously knew the nature of his followers. Let us respect the confidence Guru Sahib had in us and let us live upto it. Those who ask us these kinds of questions are only out to find flaws in Sikhi. The bad breaking news for them is that while their founding fathers unfortunately left them in shackles, Guru Sahib freed us from whatever ills and evils (perhaps child marriage?) prevailed in society.

If someone asked me, I would honestly say "Dude, you are ready to get married once you've completed your education, employed as a professional and are financially well off to support a family, ready to take on the commitments of married life", because this is what I have personally derived from Gurbani, its just my opinion and I can be incorrect. Someone else may have a different version.

I still don't know if this answers your question, but in my opinion we would have to study, understand and implement Gurbani in our daily life to be able to understand these matters and take corresponding decisions. Let us know what is your take on this, and if you find what Gurmat's stand is, please be sure to share.

It might answer my question for myself but not for Abu Abeeda. Abu uses the criteria that muhammad said it's okay if the girl has started having her period it's fine and okay to go, but western sciences talk about the pyschology something mo didn't understand he would rather people slammed their head on a hard floor and bruise their head to show piety and ontop of that marry their cousins so that the children weren't smart. Slowly, slowly this limited intelligent offsprings don't comprehend basic things and need to be dictated age of consent and don't like western sciences or human intellect telling them, they view the intellect as evil or as manmat they need to be told.

[Bijla Singh]

I think you need to stop thinking Muslim way and understand Gurmat from Gurmat's point of view. What would you rather have? A fixed age for everyone regardless of their physical and mental readiness or a choice left to you to decide when their children are ready. Gurbani is unversal so it doesn't have dated messages which many times are inapplicable. Since mental, emotional and physical maturity varies from a person to person, it is ridiculous to fix one age for everyone. Mohammad took pagan custom and made it fixed leaving no flexibility and giving no choice of freedom. Had he known better he would've considered mental, emotional and physical growth as essential criteria to determine maturity. Gurbani gives us principles to abide by and we make choice and decision based on them. Rehat Maryada clearly states when a girl should be married. I have collected enough material to refute Muslims on this point but Guru Sahib is keeping me busy with other tasks as of now.

Also, please stop posting links to that stupid, slanderous and full of lies website. Guru Rakha

[N30S1NGH]

Yeah there is no point of convincing others. Guru's were above from logics and rational thoughts. Gurmat is divine can't be confined into socio economic frame work.

[Mehtab Singh]

almost all our guru maharaj had multi wives and youngest being married- sri guru har krishan ji.

All Gurus? And even Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib jee?