Sikhi & Contraception

[Guest]

sudh jab te ham dhari, bacan gur dae hamare,

put ihe pran tone praan jab lag ghat thare,

nij nari ke sath neh tum nit bodhaio

par nari ki sej bhul supne hu na jayo

Ever since I came of age, the Guru instructed me thus:

Son, take an oath and keep it as long as there is life in you,

Love thy legal wife ever and ever so much that

Not even in a dream should you share the bed of other woman.

So have fun with your wife but never ever even dream about another woman!

[Guest ccc***]

sudh jab te ham dhari, bacan gur dae hamare,

put ihe pran tone praan jab lag ghat thare,

nij nari ke sath neh tum nit bodhaio

par nari ki sej bhul supne hu na jayo

Ever since I came of age, the Guru instructed me thus:

Son, take an oath and keep it as long as there is life in you,

Love thy legal wife ever and ever so much that

Not even in a dream should you share the bed of other woman.

So have fun with your wife but never ever even dream about another woman!

Whoever translated this was inclined to justify their "fun" time with the wife. Putting words in the mouth of the Guru :nono:

[Guest NotBJSingh69]

Whoever translated this was inclined to justify their "fun" time with the wife. Putting words in the mouth of the Guru :nono:

Can you provide a translation then?

[Guest]

Whoever translated this was inclined to justify their "fun" time with the wife. Putting words in the mouth of the Guru :nono:

I bet you all the translations are similar to this translation.Whats wrong with loving your wife?

[Guest ccc]

I bet you all the translations are similar to this translation.Whats wrong with loving your wife

Who said anything is wrong with loving the wife? I was not the one who put words in the Guru's mouth by saying, "have fun with the wife......" I thought Sikhs were more conscious of what they write and speak?

You defined love as Bollywood/Hollywood romantic movies....."have fun". That's the scary part in your translation/interpretation. Then others will take....."have fun" and define it as Hollywood sex scene. Do you not see a problem with adding such loose and ambiguous words to Gurbani translation/interpretations?

Provide the context of what the Guru is saying. Without context anyone can attach what is said to their culture and now you have given them authority to do as their culture says. There is only one culture that does not have duality in it when loving the wife. Only the Khalsa does not have duality. The Ninth Guru who wrote these vary lines did bhagti for countless hours in a day and for years. During this time did he not love his wife? Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji went on long trips to spread the message of Gurbani, did he not love his wife for the days he was not there? In todays world the husband comes home from long trips filled to the brim with kaam and moh and then calls this love. The wife waits for the husband to fill the void of moh and kaam in her so she can feel "loved". The husbands mind is focused on coming home to release his kaam and moh. Why not just do it with another as it will be a new spark and the kaam will build up again in time, where he can still show to his wife that he really "loves" her. Sants have said the foundation of husband and wife has been destroyed in Sikhs and they have become like beast. The Ninth Guru is saying in context that love means commitment to the wife. The lesson starts off with a charitar where the king is tricked into another woman's "bedroom". The king repeats the lesson to himself and thinks of a plan to escape from the clutches of the woman overcome by kaam. The king repeats to himself I made a commitment before God to one woman, I must honor this commitment. Many probably were wishing for a Bollywood scene in this charitar where the king goes back to his wife and "loves" his wife.

Can you count on your fingers how many amritdhari and Sikhs who said "I love my wife" people are divorced? They "loved" the first and now they "love" the second. And they might just love the third one too. Easily said, but only a hand full have actually loved the wife and received the same love back.

[N30S1NGH]

I don't think singh124567 vee mean anything perverted when he said fun.

At the end _ccc_ veer, we all have to conscious and honest about it when we all (including me off course) engage in krodh-lob-moh-AHANKAR not just kaam but all five equally, there is nothing wrong with innocent love and expression of love between husband and wife its a indeed- fun/play as its matter of perception as perception has to change from perverted type love to divine love as nothing is outside of non duality reality, its divine all along playing in form of partner, in form of food, in form of playing, in form of laughter, in form of dress, in form of eating.

Once satguru has gifted naam (after khanda da amrit) and once one has felt naam in form of devotion-love, meditated and feel ras of naam/gyan of naam, start realizing slowly naturally the ultimate truth god is all, all is god then guru maharaj says in sehaj/ one in abundance -one is with flow with things of life but yet fully de-attached: ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੇ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥ ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥

[Guest]

The word "fun" I used was not appropriate in this situation.What I meant to say was that there is nothing wrong with having a sexual relationship with your wife but do not get to engrossed into sex.Bhai daya singhs rehitnama states

ਸੁਰ੍ਮਾਦਿਕ ਸ਼ਿੰਗਾਰ ਨਹ‌ਿ ਨਹ‌ਿ ਪਰ ਤਰੁਨੀ ਸੰਗ All forms of makeup and the relationship with anothers wife, he forsakes.

ਯਥਾਰਥ ਇਸਤਰੀ ਤ੍ਯਾਗ ਨਹ‌ਿੰ ਗੁਰ੍ਕੋ ਧਿਆਨ ਅਭੰਗ | He does not forsake woman altogether (his own wife), always remaining focused on the Guru.

[Guest ccc]

No such thing as innocent love unless it is being referred between a Bhagat and Vaheguru. The Bhagats that have Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji had innocent love for Vaheguru.

Gurbani says very clearly those that play, laugh, drink, eat, and show off are wasting their lives in this world and the next. They are described as the dead on ang 188. On ang 261 the Guru shows us that we need to take to the feet of Gurbani as we are drowning by eating, drinking, playing, and laughing. On ang 497 the Guru warns us of the laughing and playing again. The Guru says man commits these acts, but in the last moment death grabs hold and he is finished.

Gurbani that says while laughing, playing, daily chores, and eating a person becomes realized, is speaking about a very specific type of person. This is not referring to the average joe that wakes up quickly does nitnem, doesn't focus on what he reads, throughout the day and evening and night comes and he repeats the same process without any attention or focus. Throughout the day the person is engrossed in kaam, lohb, moh, ankhar, and krodh, but thinks they are the liberated ones? The shabad begins by those that meet the Guru and follow the Guru's path, they are liberated in the midst of laughing, playing doing daily chores, and eating. Putting the the shabad on ang 522 into context has shown a completely different interpretation as to what a poster was saying before. As the wise say, a mistake in society is seen from what a "reasonable" person would do, but in the society of the saints the mistake of waking up 2 minutes late is asking Yama to take you to the pit of hell. The first one is seen from human (creature) behaviour and the second (society of saints) is viewed from the eyes of the Guru. Innocent love, playing, "laughing" with the wife falls into the creature behaviour. Did Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji deprive his wife of this innocent love, playing, and laughing while on his long trips to teach the Guru's path? Boy, was he a bad husband. :stupidme: What about Sri Guru Teg Bahudar Sahib ji who sat in bhagati for years? Playing in Sikhi is when Sikhs pick up weapons and in the battlefield laugh in the enemy face knowing after this fight the only thing missing is the body. This Sikh has the pitcher of water in his hand and is laughing, talking, and playing with his beloved as described on ang 972. The Sikh that goes out makes an honest living, does seva, and in the process of both focuses his attention on Akal Purakh is laughing, playing, eating, and dressing as the shabad on ang 522 says.

Gurbani says worship Akal Purakh 24/7, but Sikhs cringe when they ask even during the act between husband and wife? Especially during this period as your mind is most vulnerable to fall in the pit of hell. My Guru is with me all the time and if he let's go then who will hold me up? Not my wife, not my kids, and especially not the Sikhs who are too scared to remember Akal Purakh when they are doing the act with their wife.

[Guest]

Have you read guru gobind Singh Jim's bhachans that I posted before?If not then here it is again

ਸੁਰ੍ਮਾਦਿਕ ਸ਼ਿੰਗਾਰ ਨਹ‌ਿ ਨਹ‌ਿ ਪਰ ਤਰੁਨੀ ਸੰਗ All forms of makeup and the relationship with anothers wife, he forsakes.

ਯਥਾਰਥ ਇਸਤਰੀ ਤ੍ਯਾਗ ਨਹ‌ਿੰ ਗੁਰ੍ਕੋ ਧਿਆਨ ਅਭੰਗ | He does not forsake woman altogether (his own wife), always remaining focused on the Guru

[N30S1NGH]

No such thing as innocent love unless it is being referred between a Bhagat and Vaheguru. The Bhagats that have Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji had innocent love for Vaheguru.

Gurbani says very clearly those that play, laugh, drink, eat, and show off are wasting their lives in this world and the next. They are described as the dead on ang 188. On ang 261 the Guru shows us that we need to take to the feet of Gurbani as we are drowning by eating, drinking, playing, and laughing. On ang 497 the Guru warns us of the laughing and playing again. The Guru says man commits these acts, but in the last moment death grabs hold and he is finished.

Gurbani that says while laughing, playing, daily chores, and eating a person becomes realized, is speaking about a very specific type of person. This is not referring to the average joe that wakes up quickly does nitnem, doesn't focus on what he reads, throughout the day and evening and night comes and he repeats the same process without any attention or focus. Throughout the day the person is engrossed in kaam, lohb, moh, ankhar, and krodh, but thinks they are the liberated ones? The shabad begins by those that meet the Guru and follow the Guru's path, they are liberated in the midst of laughing, playing doing daily chores, and eating. Putting the the shabad on ang 522 into context has shown a completely different interpretation as to what a poster was saying before. As the wise say, a mistake in society is seen from what a "reasonable" person would do, but in the society of the saints the mistake of waking up 2 minutes late is asking Yama to take you to the pit of hell. The first one is seen from human (creature) behaviour and the second (society of saints) is viewed from the eyes of the Guru. Innocent love, playing, "laughing" with the wife falls into the creature behaviour. Did Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji deprive his wife of this innocent love, playing, and laughing while on his long trips to teach the Guru's path? Boy, was he a bad husband. :stupidme: What about Sri Guru Teg Bahudar Sahib ji who sat in bhagati for years? Playing in Sikhi is when Sikhs pick up weapons and in the battlefield laugh in the enemy face knowing after this fight the only thing missing is the body. This Sikh has the pitcher of water in his hand and is laughing, talking, and playing with his beloved as described on ang 972. The Sikh that goes out makes an honest living, does seva, and in the process of both focuses his attention on Akal Purakh is laughing, playing, eating, and dressing as the shabad on ang 522 says.

Gurbani says worship Akal Purakh 24/7, but Sikhs cringe when they ask even during the act between husband and wife? Especially during this period as your mind is most vulnerable to fall in the pit of hell. My Guru is with me all the time and if he let's go then who will hold me up? Not my wife, not my kids, and especially not the Sikhs who are too scared to remember Akal Purakh when they are doing the act with their wife.

Please re-read my post but this time in stages..please try to understand gurmat sidhant-sargun-nirgun intertwin relationship.

Vahiguroo ji is in sargun, shabad and nirgun (sarabvyapak form-everywhere-sabh sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai || )

Vahiguroo ji himself in (beautiful sargun role, shabad and nirgun (jot omnipresence everywhere)...Vahiguroo ji himself draws seeker to its various forms/various chores/various authority whether seeker knows or not thats a different story. Sikhi is non dualistic path.

Bhagat namdev ji saw vahiguroo in dog, was vahiguroo ji omnipresence joti roop there in dog before he saw it?- Yes- he is everywhere. So perceptions or deb dristhi changes spiritual development stage chances as well. Bhagat and Vahiguroo (Sargun saroop) is one sarguna stage in sikhi, same stages slowly develops into meditation dyan on shabad which further develops into shabad gyan stage of realizing its omnipresence everywhere.