Naam

[hsingh68]

Dear hsingh68,

One thing is clear, when it comes to Parmarth, I do not depend on any theory, nor do I try to make any of mine...I just rely and apply what our Guru Sahibans say in the Bani, and I take it literally, not as any theory.

It would be a great error to do so, as by not following the perfect Bani, the outcome is only: doubts and failure. I do understand and respect your views, as Parmarath, is not like the knowledge given by teachers or professors in the school or universities, that every body has to learn and memorize...like let us say USA, is in the west, and India in the east, as simple as that, and all accept it.

Parmarath or spirituality is not like that, though it is completely rationale, but to understand it and accept it, depends on each one´s level of consciousness... and as one evolves, maybe what today you do not accept or beleive, after some years, you may come to understand.

But the main thing is not to force or impose anything on anybody, neither getting annoyed, as per why he or she does not see, as clear as I see and understand the Bani, as said before, spirituality is not like that. Here the faculty of reasoning, has a very little to do. each and every soul has a purpose to fulfill ... the creation has to go on, if each and everyone accepted the true Bani in the true sense, this world would start becoming unpopulated, and this for the time being will not happen, as the creator still wants the creation to go on.

So brother do not worry, you are right for yourself, because that is how it is meant for you, even if a mahapurush, or a gurmukh were sent to make you understand, even then, you will not accept those truths howsoever logical they may be.

I usually give the following example, Prithi Chand, had the emodiments(Sree Guru Ram Das, and Sachay Badshah Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj) of Truth in front of his very eyes, and lived with them, and with good fortune having their darshan, but still then, he did not recognize them, neither accepted them as such, and was full of malice....That means, simply it was not meant for him.

We are matured in spirituality with time, not by wishing or desiring it.

But in the end I shall only say:

Baba, jis toon deveh, so jan paveh.

To whom You want to give that understanding, only he receives it.

Everything else, one gets upon one´s karmas, but understanding Gurmat and putting it into practice, is by His Grace alone.

Wahiguru Jeeo.

You have just avoided the entire discussion and I have addressed all your questions in your previous post. It's only fair to address mine, we are doing veechar just because I am questioning your theories doesn't mean for you to get annoyed at me and then use the sakhi of prithia chand to prove a false point.

If you run away from learning and people asking you questions then you will never progress. Gurbani can be proved to anyone and even when questioned it can be proven. Don't get disheartened... Your soul logic involves pure blind faith and cannot be proven but Gurbani is not like that - it can be proven to anyone and doesn't require answers depending on guess work.

All of gurbani can be proved starting from now there are no levels or rises in avasta to prove it. We don't need to throw logic out of the window when examining gurbani.

[harsharan000]

There is no point in discussing, neither getting annoyed nor disheartened, because this can go on endless, and I am not interested in wasting my energies just like that.

As I told you, I respect fully your disgagreement, and you have the full right to do so. I have the habit of presenting my opinions not on theories, but on facts, specially on spiritual matters, for that, I am once again going to retype a quotation of Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, in case you did not see it proper, because if you deny the words of Baba Nanak, who is the embodiment of Akal Purukh...then who am I to make you understand?

Here it goes:

anhad sun maani-aa sabad veechaaree.
Hearing the unstruck music of the sound current, this mind contemplates the Shabad, and accepts it.

aatam cheeneh, bha-ay nirankaaree.
Understanding itself, this soul becomes attuned to the Formless Lord.

Your whole discrepancy is that you don accept that individual souls can exist, but in the lines above, and I can give you many more examples from the Bani saying the contrary to your own logic conclusions, but then too there is no guarantee...so it is better lo leave it, time may make you realize it.

Here Guru Nanak Dev is saying, by listening to Nam, the soul, He uses the word soul(atam) as you can see, then only this soul becomes attuned, means one with the formless Lord. You can only become one with something, when one is separated from the other, because if they are already one, what is the need to listen the Shabad to become one with Lord according to you.

So you see, it is not at all my theories, as you want to make us see by force, it are the words of Baba Nanak, which you deny.

What we others say, you cunningly call them theories , and what you say, is truth ...that is not fair, but being arrogant.

For me the Bani is not to be followed blindly as you say, but with faith, and thus for me, the sacred Bani of our Guru Sahibans is Sat Bachan.

That is it

Please do not insist, as unnecesarrily it complicates things out of proportion, which leads nowhere. You think, you are right, o.k, you are right. Happy?

Wishing you the best, brother.

Sat Sree Akal.

[hsingh68]

That's better lets discuss this.

anhad sun maani-aa sabad veechaaree.
Hearing the unstruck music of the sound current, this mind contemplates the Shabad, and accepts it.

aatam cheeneh, bha-ay nirankaaree.
Understanding itself, this soul becomes attuned to the Formless Lord.

That tuk doesn't say they are separate at all. Firstly nirankaaree is an aspect of God, which means formlessness. The world lord added in the english translation in blue is not in the gurbani tuk. There is no mention of the exact word for lord.

ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿ੍ਹ ਭਏ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ||੭||

aatam cheeneh, bha-ay nirankaaree.

Understanding itself, this soul becomes attuned to the Formless Lord.

Also there are no commas in gurbani like the english translation has done it breaks the flow of gurbani hence changing emphasis of meaning.

So the meaning of the tuk should be realising/contemplating the aatam (which I say is the lord) one becomes attuned to formlessness.

Since from the previous tuk it talks about mind it is therefore the same mind that becomes attuned to the formless by contemplating God (Aatam). This only happens when there is no ego. When there is no ego only God remains and the same mind is no more to be aware of therefore the use of formlessness.

And below it is the mind that contemplates on the formless lord

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾਈਐ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ

guramukh man samajhaaeeai aatham raam beechaar ||2||

The gurmukh trains their mind to contemplate the supreme Lord Soul ||2||

You can only become one with something, when one is separated from the other, because if they are already one, what is the need to listen the Shabad to become one with Lord according to you.

Please read my previous post the illusion of separateness is due to the ego. The shabad is the lord, where there is no ego there is only shabad. The shabad you speak of is always going and my mind is always attuned to it and so is everyone elses but their mind is just unaware of it. Shabad is the LORD.

So you see, it is not at all my theories, as you want to make us see by force, it are the words of Baba Nanak, which you deny.

What we others say, you cunningly call them theories , and what you say, is truth ...that is not fair, but being arrogant.

For me the Bani is not to be followed blindly as you say, but with faith, and thus for me, the sacred Bani of our Guru Sahibans is Sat Bachan.

You are basing all your reasoning on the LITERAL ENGLISH translations of gurbani. Read the gurmukhi and see if it is in correlation with the english translation. There are theories because it's your interpretation of gurbani and the same goes for me and everyone else including you. What the guru's really meant only they can say but everyone else will have their own interpretaion of gurbani therefore it becomes a theory. It's not about proving myself right it's about doing veechar.

[harsharan000]

You have just avoided the entire discussion and I have addressed all your questions in your previous post. It's only fair to address mine, we are doing veechar just because I am questioning your theories doesn't mean for you to get annoyed at me and then use the sakhi of prithia chand to prove a false point.

If you run away from learning and people asking you questions then you will never progress. Gurbani can be proved to anyone and even when questioned it can be proven. Don't get disheartened... Your soul logic involves pure blind faith and cannot be proven but Gurbani is not like that - it can be proven to anyone and doesn't require answers depending on guess work.

All of gurbani can be proved starting from now there are no levels or rises in avasta to prove it. We don't need to throw logic out of the window when examining gurbani.

Neither the sakhi of Prithi Chand is false, nor the point I try to make you understand is false. False is your ego, which does not allow you to accept any other view than yours. Ego is haume, is ahankar, and it seems, you do not have it clear at all, the difference.

No matter how hard you may try to argue, or do veechar according to you, but I know where I am standing... what to say about you, but nobody can make me move from my firm beliefs about the Bani and Guru Ji, due only to His Grace, otherwise I am quite unfit .

You say:All of gurbani can be proved starting from now there are no levels or rises in avasta to prove it. We don't need to throw logic out of the window when examining gurbani.

See your own contradictions: first you say that gurbani can be proved...we do not need logic out of the window.... but at a later place you say, all personal opinions are theories, and only Guru Ji can make us understand what they want to say .....

So according to you if everybody has opinions or own theories, then how can agreement come from the veechaar ... because if there are 100 people and 100 opinions are the outcome, where is the truth which our Guru Sahibans want to convey us?

It is impossible to carry on, according to your way of thinking...

What makes you understand that I do not go through the gurmukhi in the Bani, and depend on english translations only?

That is not true.... of course I do relate the english translation to the gurmukhi, and only when I find sense to it, I do express myself ...

You see me using english, because we are on a english speaking and writing website : SikhSangat

Be humble man, do not be so stubborn... Nobody says, the soul dies, neither that the soul is the body or the mind as you think

All of us know, that the soul is immortal.

The thing is, the soul and mind are knotted together. Kal Purukh wanted to have this mayavee creation, and he asked for souls from Akal Purukh to populate it, as he can not create or destroy souls by himself.

Some may ask, why did Akal Purukh did so....that I can not answer, but for sure we know, He can never make mistakes, as He is all wisdom and Consciousness... at our presnt stage we can never understand.

So the next thing Dharam Rai did, in order to keep the souls as prisoners, he cunningly united the souls with mind, and thus the law of karma was then establised.

Because, any karma created by the mind, whether good or bad, the soul would had to pay or get rewarded for it, and as we can not remain karmaless, our amount of karmas are always on increase... so you see....the soul being away from Satnam, has forgotten its origin, and due to the mind, the panj karma and panj gyan indriyas, is mercilessly roaming in the cycle of births and deaths along with the mind, whose headquarters are in the causal region.

Let me remind you, the soul is not the body nor the ego nor the mind...because you tend to get confused at this very point, this is your main problem here, not that you do not know something or other, about the Bani...but here only at this very point, you are lost ...There starts your confussions...otherwise you are certainly a well versed man, and there is no doubt about it.

Going back to the post: Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj says in Raag Gauree Gwaarayree:

ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.

In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.

in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer

ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.

In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.

In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse

As we can see, He is saying, due to the influences and misguiding of the mind and ego, you did karmas for which you had to take births in different species, and that too not once or twice...but many times.

Remember , He is saying, that the soul had to go through so many janam and maran, in different bodies, sometimes as plants , fish, or ox among others of the chaurasee ka chhakar, due to its knot with the mind .

This knot, the soul can not break it by itself, unless it gets the aid of a power superior to the mind, maya, and the very Kal Purukh, who does not want any soul to escape from this his creation, so he has set traps in forms of karmas at every step, to keep the soul prisoner here.

And that superior power, is the one of Nam, on which, if the soul meditates, it can burn all its karmas, clean all the accumulated dirt, defeat the mind, maya and Kal, free itself from all these bondages, and return back to its origin, in the company with that Shabad.

That is why the Bani says: Nanak Nam, jahaaz hae. Because boarding on that Nam, through its Simram, the soul reaches its true home, and merge back in Satnam, from where it one day left.

That Shabad acts then as a guide to the soul, and so the Bani says: Shabad Guru, dhun(soul) chela. Means, with the power and authority of Nam, the soul crosses this Bahvsagar.

And as it is in the company of Shabad and Nam, no power can stop the soul...then even Dharam Rai, bows down to that wadhbhagee soul accompanied by the Shabad Guru.

So then Guru Ji says:

mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.

Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa.

After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you.

saaDhsang bha-i-o, janam paraapat.

Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.

Do seva - selfless service(Nam Simran); follow the Guru's Teachings(updesh), and vibrate(meditate, do bandagee, do kamaee) the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

After wandering aimlessly in the creation, you have been blessed with a human body, that is the door for your liberation. Get the Gurparasd of Nam(Guru´s teachings, updesh, bhed, jugtee), and do the jaap of the Nam of the Lord Har.

Gurmat existed before you and me, and it shall go on, it stands by itself, by the power of our Guru Sahibans...

We are not discovering anything new..... we are dirty, moorakh, agyanis, how can we ever properly understand the Ambrosial Bani of our Gurus ..for that, we have to be pure like them...

Until then, we should with one pointed devotion and faith, put into practice what it says, we do not need to understand its real meaning fully, that is why Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj knowing about our limitations, says in Jap Ji sahib, do the meditation or jaap of Nam, and all the truths of the Bani shall be revealed unto you... no matter even if you are illiterate and can not read, or you are handicapped and you can not go to hear the parchars ...

Beacuse: Har mandir eheu sareer hae, gyan ratan pargat Hoe... this human body is the real temple, where He should be worshiped and can be realized .

Not that I like to discuss with you, but I just can not remain quiet, if you try to throw dirt(false accusations) on me....

Maybe it is better to ignore you, but out of sympathy, and as a huamn being, knowing that your soul and mine, as well of the rest of the beings, are drops of the same Ocean Satnam... so with the aid of the Bani, I will always try my best to answer you, and clear your doubts.

Sat Sree Akal.

[hsingh68]

Neither the sakhi of Prithi Chand is false, nor the point I try to make you understand is false. False is your ego, which does not allow you to accept any other view than yours. Ego is haume, is ahankar, and it seems, you do not have it clear at all, the difference.

No matter how hard you may try to argue, or do veechar according to you, but I know where I am standing... what to say about you, but nobody can make me move from my firm beliefs about the Bani and Guru Ji, due only to His Grace, otherwise I am quite unfit .

Yes the ego is false and so is everyone's ego.

Mind is only EGO if we define ourselves to be the MIND. But if we say we are not the mind then there is no ego of identifying ourselves as the mind. Identifying ourselves with anything becomes the ego.

Let's use the dictionary definition:"Ego" is a Latin and Greek (ἑγώ) word meaning "I", often used in English to mean the "self", "identity" or other related concepts.

It may also refer to:

• Ego, one of the three constructs in Sigmund Freud's structural model of the psyche
• Ego (religion), as defined in various religions in relationship to self, soul etc.

Satguru, which is our true identity is always providing guidance to this ego of mind and body.

See your own contradictions: first you say that gurbani can be proved...we do not need logic out of the window.... but at a later place you say, all personal opinions are theories, and only Guru Ji can make us understand what they want to say .....

So according to you if everybody has opinions or own theories, then how can agreement come from the veechaar ... because if there are 100 people and 100 opinions are the outcome, where is the truth which our Guru Sahibans want to convey us?

No you have misunderstood I said we all have theories that are based on our interpretation of gurbani. Agreement can come from veechar depending on whose theories are valid based on logic that actually makes sense and people can actually understand. Doing further veechar on gurbani to see who has actually misunderstood gurbani is important as well.

Kal Purukh wanted to have this mayavee creation, and he asked for souls from Akal Purukh to populate it, as he can not create or destroy souls by himself.

Where in gurbani does it say there was another being called kal purkh asking for souls? So are Akal purukh and Kal Purukh best friends or something? Is kal purukh the devil? Please provide reference for this please.

So the next thing Dharam Rai did, in order to keep the souls as prisoners, he cunningly united the souls with mind, and thus the law of karma was then establised.

Please provide reference in gurbani again. I am not aware of dharam rai trying to keep souls as prisoners cunningly. Please show me this reasoning in gurbani?

No for karma being started at a certain point in time. Karma is infinite and will always occur this can be proved in a logical way. Karma is infinite and therefore so is the creation. Creation is just giving name and form to what is already beginninglessly present in the cause. The pot already exists in clay in unmanifest form. Making/creating a pot is mere rearrangement a.k.a. manifestation of pot from its cause - clay.

One is that it is an independent ontological real existent that serves as the receptacle of change. So, time can exist independent of change. Time never began. That is, time has an infinite past. Second view is that positing the existence of time is superfluous because everything can be explained in terms of change. In this case also, change is considered beginningless.

In either case time/change is beginningless so the universe never began to exist. The universe always was. i.e. the universe has an infinite past.

Next, one has to consider the nature of knowledge. If knowledge is always intentional - i.e. it is OF something else, then one can imagine that we (egos) are part of God's knowledge. Now, God's knowledge can either be his attribute or his essence. In either case, God's essence or his attributes are co-eternal with. Furthermore, God is omniscient. All past, future and present events are part of God's knowledge. God's knowledge is eternal if God is eternal. Objects of God's knowledge are likewise eternal if God's knowledge is eternal. Since the mistake of ego is a part of God's knowledge therefore this error will continue to come and go eternally in all lives. Therefore reincarnation is infinite and there is no such thing as physical or mental liberation.

Another view on knowledge is that it is pure consciousness itself. Any purported object of knowledge distinct from knowledge is illusory. So, in the play that God engages in, there is only God. There is no other to God. Our earthly life of duality is in reality monistic. God is simply amusing himself and engaging in sport. Only God exists.

In summary, creation never began to exist. There is no time t = 0 when suddenly things emerge or begin to exist. We can keep going back and back and will never reach a starting point. THEREFORE THE LAW OF KARMA HAS ALWAYS BEEN ESTABLISHED.

Because, any karma created by the mind, whether good or bad, the soul would had to pay or get rewarded for it, and as we can not remain karmaless, our amount of karmas are always on increase... so you see....the soul being away from Satnam, has forgotten its origin, and due to the mind, the panj karma and panj gyan indriyas, is mercilessly roaming in the cycle of births and deaths along with the mind, whose headquarters are in the causal region.

Karma is infinite.

Let me remind you, the soul is not the body nor the ego nor the mind...because you tend to get confused at this very point

I never said it was. The supreme soul god is not the body, mind or ego.

Remember , He is saying, that the soul had to go through so many janam and maran, in different bodies, sometimes as plants , fish, or ox among others of the chaurasee ka chhakar, due to its knot with the mind .

Guru ji is not saying the soul goes through incarnation in those tuks. It's the EGO that experiences different incarnations and that is what it does and it will continue to do so. Nowhere in the tuks you have provided me does it mention the soul going through reincarnation.

This knot, the soul can not break it by itself, unless it gets the aid of a power superior to the mind, maya, and the very Kal Purukh, who does not want any soul to escape from this his creation, so he has set traps in forms of karmas at every step, to keep the soul prisoner here.

Where is this theory from? Please provide reference in gurbani of this kal purukh who doesn't want souls to escape? If you are referring to maya, which maybe you are if not then say so in your next post. Maya is also an aspect of God it is God's sargun form. Without maya there would be no experience of anything.

That Shabad acts then as a guide to the soul, and so the Bani says: Shabad Guru, dhun(soul) chela. Means, with the power and authority of Nam, the soul crosses this Bahvsagar.

shabad is the Guru and the individual awareness (or consciousness) is the pupil. Shabad Guru surat dhun chela (you missed surat out above FYI) is individual awareness and I assure you that is not the soul as you have stated above. You are using the word soul far to often for words that don't mean soul. Dhun is not soul because our awareness isn't eternal and perishes when we die.

Not that I like to discuss with you, but I just can not remain quiet, if you try to throw dirt(false accusations) on me....

Maybe it is better to ignore you, but out of sympathy, and as a huamn being, knowing that your soul and mine, as well of the rest of the beings, are drops of the same Ocean Satnam... so with the aid of the Bani, I will always try my best to answer you, and clear your doubts.

If I have hurt you then please forgive me.

[simran345]

Still confused brothers. Dont say dont worry about it as i am in vehm now. I need this cleared its affecting my health more like what health.

Tired of searching on my mobile.

Why does this site say mool mantar upto gurprashad and maha mantar is up to hosi bhi sach? Have they got it wrong?

And the brothers that advised me in pm about the consequences of doing maha mantar, what are they?

Could you answer here please if you can't in pm.

So which one is maha mantar? I can't ask no Siana Gursikh as dont know any. So please clear this for me, its stressing me.

Thankuji. I dont even know Wats wat now after seeing that site.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Mool_Mantar

[Sat1176]

Simran345,

Don't get stressed and bogged down with names of mantars. Leave that for scholars to argue over. Who cares if it's called mool mantar, maha mantar, beej manatar, sadhant mantar etc etc etc

You just pick the one you feel like japping and do the practical reciting. That is where you will find the true essence. Not in the title of the mantar. The underlying motive of japping a mantra is to reach the abode of Waheguru right, so recite with full faith and devotion and let it be the guide for the inward journey. You are japping for your own benefit with love so how can anything you jap from gurbani take you the wrong way or do you more harm than good. You will be totally blind on the inward path anyway so let the mantar do the guiding, you just follow it...

Lets say you jap any mantar with such intensity and devotion that Waheguru blesses you with his darshan in whatever form that maybe, so fast, that you supposedly die from it. That is possibly the most extreme thing that could happen to you as an individual. Wouldn't it be worthwhile? Haven't you fulfilled the objective of this life and died at his feet? The point I'm making is why be afraid of the consequences of his jaap. He is within you and knows it is he you seek. The references to dieing in the shabad below are killing/subduing the thoughts of the mind by using the mantra of his name.

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das, Ang 115

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥

Guramukh Paaeae Mokh Dhuaar ||

The Gurmukh finds the gate of salvation.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਮਹਲਿ ਬੁਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥

Anadhin Rang Rathaa Gun Gaavai Andhar Mehal Bulaavaniaa ||7||

Night and day, he is imbued with the Lord's Love. He sings the Lord's Glorious Praises, and he is called to the Mansion of His Presence. ||7||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥

Sathigur Dhaathaa Milai Milaaeiaa ||

The True Guru, the Giver, is met when the Lord leads us to meet Him.

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das, 115

ਆਪੁ ਵੰਞਾਏ ਤਾ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਏ ॥

Aap Vannjaaeae Thaa Sabh Kishh Paaeae ||

Those who lose their own selves obtain everything.

ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਸਚੀ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥

Gur Sabadhee Sachee Liv Laaeae ||

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, they enshrine Love for the True one.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰੈ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਮੁਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਦਰੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥

Sabadh Marai Man Maarai Apunaa Mukathee Kaa Dhar Paavaniaa ||3||

Those who die in the Shabad and subdue their own minds, obtain the door of liberation.

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das

ਹੁਕਮੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥

Hukamae Varathai Anmrith Baanee Hukamae Anmrith Peeaavaniaa ||4||

By His Command, the Ambrosial Bani of the Word prevails, and by His Command, we drink in the Amrit. ||4||

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das, 118

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਬਦਿ ਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥

Anmrith Baanee Sio Chith Laaeae Anmrith Sabadh Vajaavaniaa ||5||

Those who focus their consciousness on the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, hear the vibrations of the Ambrosial Word of the Shabad.

Ang 153

O my mind, do not give in to doubt.

ray man mayray bharam na keejai.

When the mind surrenders to the Name, it drinks in the essence of Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||Pause||

man maanee-ai amrit ras peejai. ||1|| rahaa-o.

When the self dies, the individual mind comes to know the Supreme Mind.

aap moo-aa man man tay jaani-aa.

As the inner vision is awakened, one comes to know one`s own home, deep within the self. ||2||

najar bha-ee ghar ghar tay jaani-aa. ||2||

The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is austerity, chastity and cleansing baths at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.

jat sat tirath majan naam.

Meeting the True Guru, we are shown the way to die.

satgur milai so maran dikhaa-ay.

Remaining alive in this death brings joy deep within.

maran rahan ras antar bhaa-ay.

Overcoming egotistical pride, the Tenth Gate is found.

garab nivaar gagan pur paa-ay.

So chant and meditate on the Lord, and remain in the Sanctuary of the Lord. Pause

har jap jaap rahan har sarnaa.

[simran345]

Thanku ji Sat1176, you have put my mind to rest.

[Guest]

Still confused brothers. Dont say dont worry about it as i am in vehm now. I need this cleared its affecting my health more like what health.

Tired of searching on my mobile.

Why does this site say mool mantar upto gurprashad and maha mantar is up to hosi bhi sach? Have they got it wrong?

And the brothers that advised me in pm about the consequences of doing maha mantar, what are they?

Could you answer here please if you can't in pm.

So which one is maha mantar? I can't ask no Siana Gursikh as dont know any. So please clear this for me, its stressing me.

Thankuji. I dont even know Wats wat now after seeing that site.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Mool_Mantar

Mool mantar is up to Nanak hosi pi sache and maha mantar is up to gurpursad.

[harsharan000]

Sat Sree Akal jeeo,

Sat Purukh has no friends nor enemies. He is above all these things. Who can befriend Him, or who can be His enemy? Of course , no one.

He is aroop, Alakh and Agam, He alone He is.

His will, His Hukum, His bhana works throughout all khands, brahmands....universes upon universes.

Nobody can object Him, or tell Him how to do anything, Kal or any other entity, just gracefully carry His orders... His Hukum, in one word.

The second point of souls, creation and karmas, and Dharam Rai, according to the Sat Bani, which tells us:

ਸਚੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਚੇ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ

Sachee Thaeree Kudharath Sachae Paathisaah

सची तेरी कुदरति सचे पातिसाह

True is Your almighty creative power, True King.

Keethaa Karanaa Sarab Rajaae

कीता करणा सरब रजाइ

Whatever He has done, or will do, is all by His Own Will.

ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਕਰੇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ

Eikanhaa Hukam Samaae Leae Eikanhaa Hukamae Karae Vinaas

इकन्हा हुकमि समाइ लए इकन्हा हुकमे करे विणासु

By His Command, some are merged into Him, and some, by His Command, are destroyed.

ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਭਾਣੈ ਕਢਿ ਲਏ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ

Eikanhaa Bhaanai Kadt Leae Eikanhaa Maaeiaa Vich Nivaas

इकन्हा भाणै कढि लए इकन्हा माइआ विचि निवासु

Some, by the Pleasure of His Will, are lifted up out of Maya, while others are made to dwell within it.

ਏਵ ਭਿ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਜਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਆਣੇ ਰਾਸਿ

Eaev Bh Aakh N Jaapee J Kisai Aanae Raas

एव भि आखि न जापई जि किसै आणे रासि

No one can say who will be rescued.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਲਿਖਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ

Naanak Jeea Oupaae Kai Likh Naavai Dhharam Behaaliaa

नानक जीअ उपाइ कै लिखि नावै धरमु बहालिआ

O Nanak, having created the souls, the Lord installed the Righteous Judge of Dharma to read and record their accounts....

In this last tuk, Guru Ji is telling us: that He created souls, that is quite evident... and then installed the figure of Dharam Rai, for a particular purpose... and mentions to record their accounts.

What are these accounts? Naturally karmas... only. But there is another account, which is out of the jurisdiction of Dharam Rai, on which he has no rights...

And that is, the heart of a devotee, a sikh, a disciple... who has given his mind, body and soul, with unconditional love, in the form of Nam Simran, to Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

See how beautifully Guru Ji, clears all our doubts in a simple manner.. and with just a few words...

Wah wah Sacahy Badshah, kaun janeh guna tere. Oouch Apaar Beant Soami.