I Need An Expert's Knowledge

[alias]

I want to thank everyone for their help, but I feel I must not of made myself clear. I'm not speaking about Karma. I'm speaking of the meditation experience where one joins in union with God, in the inner space where there is no time, no memory of the world that the one who was meditating in just a moment before. During that experience, I was wondering if in the Sikh lineage there is mention of a faint witness. I don't know if it would be a creation story about how the soul journeys from God into life, but it was about what takes place at the level of the soul, when it is nearest to God. I hope this clears it up a bit. And thanks again for all your comments.

Eric

So far as i see it, its like this.

the silent witness is the EGO as per above post.

merging with god, is a complex process. the idea of going through "sunn" (means literally "the void"), you cant have any ego or witness whatsoever if you come out the other end of this state. most people confuse union with god for something else in their travels because they havent truly let go of themselves. people travel to sunn, and they think that is it. then they talk about the witness etc. but the very act of thinking (activation of self/ego) should tell you that thats not the end. people believe they reach the void and feel amazing after and think thats it.

sunn has levels. inside, outside, and all of existence. then the fourth sunn is outside of existence. this is still the journey towards heaven let alone through heaven and the process of union with god. so the silent witness is where there is nothing, that is sunn. if u still sense self, then ur still inside existence (although this can be both inside and outside of time).

you cant equate these concepts with Christianity or more to the point, Evangelism. yes, there is an underlying state to all of existance and religions have sought to see this, but you cant therefore say this XYZ concept, such as silent witness, is true. in that case, if u do say its true, then anyone can say everything is true, which is also correct.

union with god can only be done when there is nothing of yourself left. "ub tuhi mai naahi" in SGGS.

so union of god with silent witness is not true. there is only guru and god (formless).

its a long journey to the union with god. self-realisation is the closest to silent witness you will get to a comparison. but this is only the beginning to the journey.

god is formless so surely if we are to become him, we must shead a hell of alot too in the process!

god is complete. this is y we dont cut hair and etc. to be complete in every way possible. physically, mentally emotionally, and also attain spiritual completeness.

vanity etc all fall away and a more god concious self emerges.

mediation does this, meditation finishes yourself, meditation gives you union with god.

thanks

[harsharan000]

A couple of years ago I read something in the Sikh tradition pertaining to being in union with God.

There was a mention of a silent witness that is barely undetectable during the experience. Is there anyone that might point me in the direction of where that might be written?

Thanks for your time,

Eric

Hi Eric,

I understand what you mean and follow the direction of your point.

You see merging in God, is not like going somewhere lie to a theatre, or a football stadium....just to mention a few places.

And then when we go there, there soemone sees us, and is a witness in case of need, or there are cameras recording the 24 hours...... neither are there huge masses of devotees or followers...all going on the highway to heaven.

No nothing of that sort.

The meeting and merging in Him, is something very intimate and personal, neither the mind accompanies the soul there.

The mind which is a very calculative item with all its inmense possibilities and capabilities....

There only the naked soul, means, without mind, without karmas, or the coverings of astral and causal bodies .....

If at all, there is anything which goes with the soul there, it is the Shabad Guru. Without which the soul can never ever reach its true Home.

There is a famous quote of the Bani, which I usually use , and that is :

Nanak, Naam Jahaz hae. This means, O Nanak, the Naam or Shabad is the vehicle, in which, by boarding on it, the soul reaches it´s True Home as said before.

Without the means of Shabad or Naam, sorry to say, there is no other path... no yogas, no jap(recitations), tap(austerities), fastings, pilgrimages, rituals, dogmas....absolutely nothing apart from Naam, Shabad, or the Word, mentioned in the Bible. Chinese call it Tao, the muslims call it Kun.

God, Shabad, naam or Word, are different terms in different languages, but all refer to the same power, to that same highest level of consciousness, or consciouss energy, which is as said by these Saints, is an Ocean of Love, Mercy and Grace, above all as its main virtues or qualities. Some call Him Sachidananda, which means: Everlasting Truth, Pure Consciousness and total bliss.

Others say He is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent all pervading

According to the Guru Sahibans or Gurmukhs, or True Saints, or call it Mystics; Naam, Shabd or the Word, is the cleanser, the path, the vehicle, the Light to guide us within, the Guru .

This Naam has Light, and has celestial melodies out of reach of the parmeters of expressing it with words in any language. Saints say, to describe Him or Shabd is like giving a sweet to a dumb person and expect from the same to describe it ...and we all know, that is not possible.

The second Patshahee said : Akaha bajoh vekhna, bin kanah sun -na, paira bajoh chalna, bin hatha karna.... There, we see without eyes, listen without ears, walk without feet and work without hands.... all these things are done by our sensory system here with the aid of the respective organs ...

Christ also said: having eyes ye see not, having ears, ye hear not ....

So what is it that Guru Angad Dev Maharaj, or Christ, want to tell us, it is that Word or Naam, as all pervading energy, as Light or Sound form, can be heard and seen by the soul, but alas, we are so caught up within the spheres of mind and maya, we hardly practice Gurmat, namely the real devotion to the Lord, so naturally, no one knows about the esoteric importance of the teachings of any True Gurmukh, Bhagat, or Guru Sahibans of any time and place ...

The Bani says: the Shabd or Naam, is the highest Truth in all eras, whether past, present or future...

What is the meaning of Guru?

Guru means, the dispeller of darkness, the one who leads us from darkness to Light.

So , where is that darkness? It is within us. So when that Naam or Shabd is manifested within us, it guides us, from the lower regions, towrds the Highest One, Sach Khand, that is why it is called: Shabad Guru.

So in short, going to your question, I would say: Wahiguru is like and Infinite Ocean, the soul is like a tiny drop left on the shore(creation), and the Shabd Guru is like the wave which emerges from the Ocean and is a limited necessary manifestation of that Infinte Ocean, but in that Form, it comes to the shore, wraps the soul in itself, and then only the drop (soul) and the Wave(Shabd Guru) become one with the Mighty Infinite Ocean.

The drop, however it may try, can nevr ever reach and merge in the Ocean, unless that very Ocean, becomes a limited Wave and gracefully gets hold of that drop and become the very Ocean.

All this is nothing, but his play of love and grace toward us, souls. So if there is any witness, it is the Guru, but then who has that purity to know all this...of course no one, as each one has to workout his/her own purity first, in oredr to reach that level of Highest Consciousness.

Sat Sree Akal.

Waheguru

[Eric1234]

Thank you everyone for your kind and helpful words.

I appreciate all of you taking the time out of your day to clear this up for me.

Very Respectfully,

Eric