Question About Souls

[Depressed]

I will be the first to admit that my knowledge on Sikhi is very limited. I go through phases where I go to Guduwarda constantly and pray, to doing none of those. I had a thread another anonymous section about my depression.

Anyway I have a question about our soul. Is it developed when we are being born, or are our souls already present with god or in heaven like place which then gets put into a human being that is born. Ie the soul is a seperate being from the human body.

Sorry if this is an odd question that doesn't make sense.

[N30S1NGH]

Our real self- unconditioned soul does not born and does not die, its ajooni-Jot saroop its one with God already its god light which is already in all of us its unconditioned, universal, pure intuitive consciousness or awareness (chaitan divine wisdom awakened surat). However, it looks like what you talking about here is conditioned soul which takes birth and dies due to ignorance of its source, its relative in nature, always subjected to time, karam reincarnation, samsara(suffering-karam) Whole purpose of human life is meet god(go back to our source), break egoic conditioning of our conditioned mind/soul by going back to its source- Man tu jot saroop hai , apna mool painchain - O mind you are you light/pure Jot -pure awareness light/ infinite ocean of knowledge, recognize yourself. But this realization cannot come without guru's kirpa (grace of true guru-satguru) which is sri guru granth sahib ji in manifested form-gurbani pointing towards its unmanisfted anubhav gyan satguru saroop, all prevading satguru in unmanifsted form-divine satguru/god-divine guidance-intuitive grace via guidance within all of us,without grace of satguru which is also in form of intuitive transcdence guidance each step of the way for seeker ..this understanding of our true nature and realization of it its impossible:

Here is an discourse given by sri guru gobind singh ji to our real self:

By Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Gyan Parbodh ਪਾਧੜੀ ਛੰਦ ॥

पाधड़ी छंद ॥

PAADHRAI STANZA

ਤ੍ਵ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

त्व प्रसादि ॥

BY THY GRACE

ਦਿਨ ਅਜਬ ਏਕ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਅਨਭਉ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਹਦ ਅਕਾਮ ॥

दिन अजब एक आतमा राम ॥ अनभउ सरूप अनहद अकाम ॥

On a day the curious soul (asked): The infinite and Desire less Lord, the Intuitive Entity.

ਅਨਛਿੱਜ ਤੇਜ ਆਜਾਨ ਬਾਹੁ ॥ ਰਾਜਾਨ ਰਾਜੁ ਸਾਹਾਨ ਸਾਹੁ ॥੧॥੧੨੬॥

अनछि्ज तेज आजान बाहु ॥ राजान राजु साहान साहु ॥१॥१२६॥

Of everlasting Glory and long-armed; the King of kings and Emperor of emperors.1.126.

ਉਚਰਿਓ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਸੰਗ ॥ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਭੰਗ ॥

उचरिओ आतमा परातमा संग ॥ उतभुज सरूप अबिगत अभंग ॥

The soul said to the Higher Soul; the Germinating Entity, Unmanifested and Invincible;

ਇਹ ਕਉਨ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਸਰੂਪ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜ ਅਤਿਭੂਤਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੨॥੧੨੭॥

इह कउन आहि आतमा सरूप ॥ जिह अमित तेज अतिभूति बिभूति ॥२॥१२७॥

What is this Soul Entity? Which hath indelible glory and which is of queer substance."2.127.

ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਾਚ ॥

परातमा बाच ॥

The Higher Soul said:

ਯਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜਿ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਕਾਮ ॥

यहि ब्रहम आहि आतमा राम ॥ जिह अमित तेजि अबिगत अकाम ॥

This Soul is itself Brahman;" Who is of Everlasting Glory and is Unmanisfested and Desireless.

ਜਿਹ ਭੇਦ ਭਰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਰਬਾ ਦਿਆਲ ॥੩॥੧੨੮॥

जिह भेद भरम नहीं करम काल ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र सरबा दिआल ॥३॥१२८॥

Who is indiscriminate, actionless and deathless; Who hath no enemy and friend and is Merciful towards all.3.1228.

ਡੋਬਿਓ ਨ ਡੁਬੈ ਸੋਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਟਿਓ ਨ ਕਟੈ ਨ ਬਾਰਿਯੋ ਬਰਾਇ ॥

डोबिओ न डुबै सोखिओ न जाइ ॥ कटिओ न कटै न बारियो बराइ ॥

It is neither drowned nor soaked; It can neither be chopped nor burnt.

ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਸਤ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤ ਪਾਤ ॥੪॥੧੨੯॥

छिजै न नैक सत ससत्र पात ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र नहीं जात पात ॥४॥१२९॥

It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129.

ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਹੰਸ ਸਤ ਸਤ ਪ੍ਰਘਾਇ ॥ ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਖੰਡਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

सत्र सहंस सत सत प्रघाइ ॥ छिजै न नैक खंडिओ न जाइ ॥

By the blow of thousands of enemies, It is neither wasted away nor fragmented.

ਨਹੀ ਜਰੈ ਨੈਕ ਪਾਵਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ ॥ ਬੋਰੈ ਨ ਸਿੰਧ ਸੋਖੈ ਨ ਬਯਾਰ ॥੫॥੧੩੦॥

नही जरै नैक पावक मंझार ॥ बोरै न सिंध सोखै न बयार ॥५॥१३०॥

It is not burnt even in the fire. It is neither drowned in the sea nor soaked by the air.5.13

[Depressed]

Thank you very much for your reply and information Veer ji. How do I get back to the source? I am constantly having negative thoughts about myself and I struggle to function in the outside world because I have social anxiety. Even in the Guduwara I am paranoid and anxious. I fear one day it will all get too much and I will do something stupid. So what will happen would I happen to suicide?

[MisterrSingh]

Thank you very much for your reply and information Veer ji. How do I get back to the source? I am constantly having negative thoughts about myself and I struggle to function in the outside world because I have social anxiety. Even in the Guduwara I am paranoid and anxious. I fear one day it will all get too much and I will do something stupid. So what will happen would I happen to suicide?

How do you return "home"? By becoming the best version of yourself, so that every thought and deed is permeated with goodness, not only for the benefit of yourself (peace of mind), but also for the benefit of those around you. As hard as it sounds you need to rein your mind in, put a leash on its wanderings. Nobody will come along and magically do that for you. So how does one achieve such a feat? Well, I'm assuming you identify with Sikhi, so in order to quell those dark urges you should begin with Gurbani. I expect most people to switch off at this moment, lol, but if you identify as a Sikh then it's the path you must take. Gurbani is for your soul. It should not be underestimated or dismissed as mere praying, even though it may seem that way. There's something contained within that is... it can't be explained by me it needs to be experienced.

Admittedly, there is no point in reciting Gurbani or jupping Naam if, when you are going about your day, you are functioning and thinking and acting in opposition to the goodness of the Gurbani you recited earlier. Build up a routine (but not so that it becomes a mindless chore -- very hard to do but doable if the will is there) and make it a part of your life. Just believe I guess; try not to exhaust your mind with over thinking. When the fog begins to lift, then you can attempt to rationalise whatever you're experiencing. But first just give yourself to the experience with vigour and determination. Remember, YOU must do this; nobody else can or will, despite what some people will tell you. Nothing worth doing is easy, ever.

As for suicide, don't bother. I don't like throwing around words like "sin" but suicide is the equivalent of taking another's life. It's an affront to God if you believe in God. Just don't bother.

[MisterrSingh]

I should also add that you might want to look at what's causing these dark thoughts. Be honest with yourself and trh to identify what's causing your mind to be disturbed.

[N30S1NGH]

Thank you very much for your reply and information Veer ji. How do I get back to the source? I am constantly having negative thoughts about myself and I struggle to function in the outside world because I have social anxiety. Even in the Guduwara I am paranoid and anxious. I fear one day it will all get too much and I will do something stupid. So what will happen would I happen to suicide?

Depression, stress, anxiety, negative suicidal thoughts can be removed- if you don't give up and with perseverance combat them by not identifying with them. Start off with ardas to Guru maharaj ji to bless you with will power and perseverance, because without grace of vahiguru/satguru's kirpa not even one leaf can move on the tree.

Everyone(even sinners of highest calibre) is born with pure portion of mind ( source of mind which is right at the starting edge of mind) which we sikhs call it surat/bibek/brahmakar unconditioned birthi- intuitive unconditioned consciousness/pure cognitive perception. So divide your mind into two-

-diseased mind which is affected by five vices, depression, stress, anxiety, emotional negative suicidal thoughts

-pure portion of mind-intuitive unconditioned consciousness/pure cognitive perception mind

What we often do is we try to combat diseased conditioned mind with diseased conditioned mind which may only provided band aids fixes but it does not look at the root, that's why many psychologist fail to address the root cause, they provide solution to fix one problem but inadvertently create other problems as well-such as more conditioning, dependency on medication etc.

So With pure portion of mind start a first phase journey which is simply witnessing the thoughts come in, let whatever thoughts (no matter how hideous) come in and whatever thought go -go..don't judge or analyze the thoughts, just simple witness as pure witness, it will take some practice so to make it easier..here are some analogies it help further or visualize:

-Witness the thoughts visualize-thoughts being clouds-appearing/disappearing on its own accord , it does not matter to you because you are the sky which has pure vantage view (pure unconditioned intuitive cognitive consciousness-achal thoughtless surat) in which thoughts come in and out as clouds, you have pure vantage to witness your thoughts not matter how big and scary clouds are, it cannot touch you as you can always see them below, they are below you.

- Imagine you are in the middle of road- each thought is car trying to hit you, drag you with it. Imagine how painful it is being hit by each car (thought) which is dragging you all the way, what you do ? do you fight with a speedy car coming at you? No..you simply get on a side of road, move away and witness the thoughts(in form of car) travelling in and out of road-your view and ultimately ignore them by abiding in your consciousness(surat)...after a while car-lethal weapon (thoughts) will loose its influence on you as you will start witnessing them and not getting hit by them and eventually you will also transcendent witness stage as well in straight in abidance in already available inner state we all have already in our pure universal portion of mind which is achal moraat (pure motionless stillness-afor-thoughtless awareness) universal being at the point Guru's kirpa will unfold itself and guide you further.

Anyway, your main focus should be to disidentify with your negative thoughts, but since you are at it, you might as well try to understand thoughts structure how transient they are and illusory they are, disidentify with them all together with pure universal portion of mind (pure unconditioned intuitive cognitive consciousness), and don't worry about right actions and rights speech, trying to figure how to do naam jaap since everything comes from there, this unconditioned pure intuitive cognitive consciousness will guide you further how to do naam jaap, gurbani patt, right speech, right actions very naturally and spontaneously.

[Depressed]

I don't know how to avoid those thoughts as it rings so true in my mind as I know why my thoughts are the way they are. Though your analogies make perfect sense. Accepting myself will probably be the only way I can get rid of all my issues. It is highly unlikely I will be able to do this on my own accord, I think I need Guru Maharaj Ji's help.

I can read the Punjabi scripture, but my vocabulary is very limited in order to understand it. I do know Japji Sahib by heart, but I don't know how to do Ardas and other parts. I don't like myself, how do I give myself to Waheguru?