Veganism

[bdemon 17]

WJKK WJKF

I also find what you say about veganism funny.

I asked you more info on your weight if you read what I wrote properly but obviously you won't answer my post accurately.

Again, if your eating 110g of protein, that is enough for a 5 stone person to build muscle. That's why I said that's too low.

Again, be a vegan but don't tell me to be.

Compassion can be within death aswell. That's what jhatka is.

Do you think it's wrong to put a dog down here in the uk when it's too ill?

If the death torture rape murder and slaughter of innocent sentient beings makes u laugh i think there is something seriously wrong with you.

I think you should seek medical help

Goodluck little bro

Wjkk Wjkf

[Singh559 2,624]

WJKK WJKF

I eat meat because I hunt and jhatka. This was hukam. What do you think I should do with the poultry I shot?

Vegans and veggies argue their diets are spiritual lol, yet you all claim this scientist an that scientist.....i eat a balanced diet of everything.

Please stop telling sikhs they can't practice jhatka.

By healthy body weight, I meant Lean Body Mass. How can you not be of a healthy weight? I have been body building for over 10 years. Please do any search yourself to check the amount of protein you need to build muscle on a body builders diet.

Again just because you have been lifting for x number of years it doesn't mean you know Jack about nutrition and lifting. Chances are you're probably on roids/datdere if you even don't know the basics.

I don't care what you eat like I said keep that to yourself but you are spewing misinformation and broscience which has been disproved in the scientific community and among lifters who acknowledge nutrition and how body works. Again there is no such thing as healthy body weight lol

You're a fool if you argue about whether or not you should eat meat so I won't discuss that with you nor do I care but if you try to say you need that much protein to make natural limit gains then i will disprove it. Even when a person is on a caloric deficit to get leaner and you want to carb cycle its easy for a vegan to get that much protein.

[S4NGH 743]

Try to be as vegan as possible. Theres no need to follow it religiously :/

[sikhiseeker 253]

Again just because you have been lifting for x number of years it doesn't mean you know Jack about nutrition and lifting. Chances are you're probably on roids/datdere if you even don't know the basics.

I don't care what you eat like I said keep that to yourself but you are spewing misinformation and broscience which has been disproved in the scientific community and among lifters who acknowledge nutrition and how body works. Again there is no such thing as healthy body weight lol

You're a fool if you argue about whether or not you should eat meat so I won't discuss that with you nor do I care but if you try to say you need that much protein to make natural limit gains then i will disprove it. Even when a person is on a caloric deficit to get leaner and you want to carb cycle its easy for a vegan to get that much protein.

WJKK WJKF

You don't know me. Yet you assume very much about me.

Google "amount of protein to build muscle". Do some research.

What I love about you vegetarians and vegans is you tell others your better, spirituality higher.

I do not need to argue about meat eating. Just don't tell me I need to be a vegetarian or a vegan if I'm a sikh.

[sikhiseeker 253]

If the death torture rape murder and slaughter of innocent sentient beings makes u laugh i think there is something seriously wrong with you.

I think you should seek medical help

Goodluck little bro

Wjkk Wjkf

I have not said that all the above is funny? I find how you as a vegan sit on high morals. You never answered any of my questions where you buy your veg from.....or the fertilisers used to grow your veg. It's easier to ignore the questions what highlight issues within your vegan diet.

I'd have more respect if you said you grow your own.

You should learn some nimrata brother when you do your bhagti.

[sikhiseeker 253]

Our religion only PROTECTS the innocent, and we will also PUNISH those who are guilty for punishing the innocent. Can you link me to the shabad please, ji?

Also, just think about those Biveki Gurmukhs, they do not eat meat, and they are the highest form of Sikhs.

WJKK WJKF

Penji, I agree with you on that. But the way majority of sikhs neglect the shakti side of the Khalsa, I don't think there will be any of us able to know how to punish someone who harms the innocent. That's my point.

A soldier trains mentally and physically before being able to fight in battle. How do you suppose one should train to use the kirpan or fire a gun?

You never answered me how the nigara would of been produced on order of Shiri Guru Gobind Singh? Do you think they should of used a different material?

Donyou disagree with the misals what practised hunting too? Do you shun what they did for the panth? Are you disgusted with Maharaja Ranjit Singhs hunting too?

I am not saying you should be a meat eater. But at the same time no one should say to me I should be vegan or vegetarian. Our Gurus hunted to give mukhti and for practice. Puratan Granths state they consumed meat after jhatka, validated by nihangs. You could never stop jhatka due to this reason. But compassion can be given at point of jhatka and yes, mukhti is achieved when a Khalsa sikh carries out jhatka.

I have pasted Shiri Guru Nanak Dev ji's shabad below:

-- Page 1289 of 1430 --

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥

Salok Ma 1 ||

Shalok, First Mehl:

ਪਉਣੈ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਜੀਉ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਆ ਖੁਸੀਆ ਕਿਆ ਪੀੜ ॥

Pounai Paanee Aganee Jeeo Thin Kiaa Khuseeaa Kiaa Peerr ||

Living beings are formed of air, water and fire. They are subject to pleasure and pain.

ਧਰਤੀ ਪਾਤਾਲੀ ਆਕਾਸੀ ਇਕਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਹਨਿ ਵਜੀਰ ॥

Dhharathee Paathaalee Aakaasee Eik Dhar Rehan Vajeer ||

In this world, in the nether regions of the underworld, and in the Akaashic ethers of the heavens, some remain ministers in the Court of the Lord.

ਇਕਨਾ ਵਡੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਇਕਿ ਮਰਿ ਹੋਹਿ ਜਹੀਰ ॥

Eikanaa Vaddee Aarajaa Eik Mar Hohi Jeheer ||

Some live long lives, while others suffer and die.

ਇਕਿ ਦੇ ਖਾਹਿ ਨਿਖੁਟੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਇਕਿ ਸਦਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਫਕੀਰ ॥

Eik Dhae Khaahi Nikhuttai Naahee Eik Sadhaa Firehi Fakeer ||

Some give and consume, and still their wealth is not exhausted, while others remain poor forever.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਾਜੇ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਢਾਹੇ ਏਕ ਚਸੇ ਮਹਿ ਲਖ ॥

Hukamee Saajae Hukamee Dtaahae Eaek Chasae Mehi Lakh ||

In His Will He creates, and in His Will He destroys thousands in an instant.

ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਨਥੈ ਨਥਿਆ ਬਖਸੇ ਤੋੜੇ ਨਥ ॥

Sabh Ko Nathhai Nathhiaa Bakhasae Thorrae Nathh ||

He has harnessed everyone with His harness; when He forgives, he breaks the harness.

ਵਰਨਾ ਚਿਹਨਾ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਲੇਖੇ ਬਾਝੁ ਅਲਖੁ ॥

Varanaa Chihanaa Baaharaa Laekhae Baajh Alakh ||

He has no color or features; He is invisible and beyond calculation.

ਕਿਉ ਕਥੀਐ ਕਿਉ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ॥

Kio Kathheeai Kio Aakheeai Jaapai Sacho Sach ||

How can He be described? He is known as the Truest of the True.

ਕਰਣਾ ਕਥਨਾ ਕਾਰ ਸਭ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਅਕਥੁ ॥

Karanaa Kathhanaa Kaar Sabh Naanak Aap Akathh ||

All the actions which are done and described, O Nanak, are done by the Indescribable Lord Himself.

ਅਕਥ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਣੇਇ ॥

Akathh Kee Kathhaa Sunaee ||

Whoever hears the description of the indescribable,

ਰਿਧਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥

Ridhh Budhh Sidhh Giaan Sadhaa Sukh Hoe ||1||

Is blessed with wealth, intelligence, perfection, spiritual wisdom and eternal peace. ||1||

ਮਃ ੧ ॥

Ma 1 ||

First Mehl:

ਅਜਰੁ ਜਰੈ ਤ ਨਉ ਕੁਲ ਬੰਧੁ ॥

Ajar Jarai Th No Kul Bandhh ||

One who bears the unbearable, controls the nine holes of the body.

ਪੂਜੈ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਹੋਵੈ ਥਿਰੁ ਕੰਧੁ ॥

Poojai Praan Hovai Thhir Kandhh ||

One who worships and adores the Lord with his breath of life, gains stability in his body-wall.

ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਏਹੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥

Kehaan Thae Aaeiaa Kehaan Eaehu Jaan ||

Where has he come from, and where will he go?

ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਤ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥

Jeevath Marath Rehai Paravaan ||

Remaining dead while yet alive, he is accepted and approved.

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥

Hukamai Boojhai Thath Pashhaanai ||

Whoever understands the Hukam of the Lord's Command, realizes the essence of reality.

ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

Eihu Parasaadh Guroo Thae Jaanai ||

This is known by Guru's Grace.

ਹੋਂਦਾ ਫੜੀਅਗੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੁ ॥

Honadhaa Farreeag Naanak Jaan ||

O Nanak, know this: egotism leads to bondage.

ਨਾ ਹਉ ਨਾ ਮੈ ਜੂਨੀ ਪਾਣੁ ॥੨॥

Naa Ho Naa Mai Joonee Paan ||2||

Only those who have no ego and no self-conceit, are not consigned to reincarnation. ||2||

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

Pourree ||

Pauree:

ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਹੋਰਿ ਬੁਧੀ ਮਿਥਿਆ ॥

Parrheeai Naam Saalaah Hor Budhhanaee Mithhiaa ||

Read the Praise of the Lord's Name; other intellectual pursuits are false.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਚੇ ਵਾਪਾਰ ਜਨਮੁ ਬਿਰਥਿਆ ॥

Bin Sachae Vaapaar Janam Birathhiaa ||

Without dealing in Truth, life is worthless.

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Anth N Paaraavaar N Kin Hee Paaeiaa ||

No one has ever found the Lord's end or limitation.

ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਗਰਬਿ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਤਿਨ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਭਾਇਆ ॥

Sabh Jag Garab Gubaar Thin Sach N Bhaaeiaa ||

All the world is enveloped by the darkness of egotistical pride. It does not like the Truth.

ਚਲੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਤਾਵਣਿ ਤਤਿਆ ॥

Chalae Naam Visaar Thaavan Thathiaa ||

Those who depart from this world, forgetting the Naam, shall be roasted in the frying pan.

ਬਲਦੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤੇਲੁ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਘਤਿਆ ॥

Baladhee Andhar Thael Dhubidhhaa Ghathiaa ||

They pour the oil of duality within, and burn.

ਆਇਆ ਉਠੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਉਵਤਿਆ ॥

Aaeiaa Outhee Khael Firai Ouvathiaa ||

They come into the world and wander around aimlessly; they depart when the play is finished.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੈ ਮੇਲੁ ਸਚੈ ਰਤਿਆ ॥੨੪॥

Naanak Sachai Mael Sachai Rathiaa ||24||

O Nanak, imbued with Truth, the mortals merge in Truth. ||24||

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥

Salok Ma 1 ||

Shalok, First Mehl:

ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮਿਆ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ॥

Pehilaan Maasahu Ninmiaa Maasai Andhar Vaas ||

First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh.

ਜੀਉ ਪਾਇ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੁਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹਡੁ ਚੰਮੁ ਤਨੁ ਮਾਸੁ ॥

Jeeo Paae Maas Muhi Miliaa Hadd Chanm Than Maas ||

When he comes alive, his mouth takes flesh; his bones, skin and body are flesh.

ਮਾਸਹੁ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਢਿਆ ਮੰਮਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਗਿਰਾਸੁ ॥

Maasahu Baahar Kadtiaa Manmaa Maas Giraas ||

He comes out of the womb of flesh, and takes a mouthful of flesh at the breast.

ਮੁਹੁ ਮਾਸੈ ਕਾ ਜੀਭ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੀ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਾਸੁ ॥

Muhu Maasai Kaa Jeebh Maasai Kee Maasai Andhar Saas ||

His mouth is flesh, his tongue is flesh; his breath is in the flesh.

ਵਡਾ ਹੋਆ ਵੀਆਹਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥

Vaddaa Hoaa Veeaahiaa Ghar Lai Aaeiaa Maas ||

He grows up and is married, and brings his wife of flesh into his home.

ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਸਭੋ ਸਾਕੁ ॥

Maasahu Hee Maas Oopajai Maasahu Sabho Saak ||

Flesh is produced from flesh; all relatives are made of flesh.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਆਵੈ ਰਾਸਿ ॥

Sathigur Miliai Hukam Bujheeai Thaan Ko Aavai Raas ||

When the mortal meets the True Guru, and realizes the Hukam of the Lord's Command, then he comes to be reformed.

ਆਪਿ ਛੁਟੇ ਨਹ ਛੂਟੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਚਨਿ ਬਿਣਾਸੁ ॥੧॥

Aap Shhuttae Neh Shhootteeai Naanak Bachan Binaas ||1||

Releasing himself, the mortal does not find release; O Nanak, through empty words, one is ruined. ||1||

ਮਃ ੧ ॥

Ma 1 ||

First Mehl:

ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhagarrae Giaan Dhhiaan Nehee Jaanai ||

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥

Koun Maas Koun Saag Kehaavai Kis Mehi Paap Samaanae ||

What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?

ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥

Gainaddaa Maar Hom Jag Keeeae Dhaevathiaa Kee Baanae ||

It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.

ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥

Maas Shhodd Bais Nak Pakarrehi Raathee Maanas Khaanae ||

Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.

ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥

Farr Kar Lokaan No Dhikhalaavehi Giaan Dhhiaan Nehee Soojhai ||

They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.

ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧੇ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਬੂਝੈ ॥

Naanak Andhhae Sio Kiaa Keheeai Kehai N Kehiaa Boojhai ||

O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.

ਅੰਧਾ ਸੋਇ ਜਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਿ ਲੋਚਨ ਨਾਹੀ ॥

Andhhaa Soe J Andhh Kamaavai This Ridhai S Lochan Naahee ||

They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥

Maath Pithaa Kee Rakath Nipannae Mashhee Maas N Khaanhee ||

They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.

ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥

Eisathree Purakhai Jaan Nis Maelaa Outhhai Mandhh Kamaahee ||

But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.

ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥

Maasahu Ninmae Maasahu Janmae Ham Maasai Kae Bhaanddae ||

In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥

Giaan Dhhiaan Kashh Soojhai Naahee Chathur Kehaavai Paanddae ||

You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

ਬਾਹਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੰਦਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਘਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਚੰਗੇਰਾ ॥

Baahar Kaa Maas Mandhaa Suaamee Ghar Kaa Maas Changaeraa ||

O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੋਏ ਜੀਇ ਲਇਆ ਵਾਸੇਰਾ ॥

Jeea Janth Sabh Maasahu Hoeae Jeee Laeiaa Vaasaeraa ||

All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh.

ਅਭਖੁ ਭਖਹਿ ਭਖੁ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਨ ਕੇਰਾ ॥

Abhakh Bhakhehi Bhakh Thaj Shhoddehi Andhh Guroo Jin Kaeraa ||

They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind.

ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥

Maasahu Ninmae Maasahu Janmae Ham Maasai Kae Bhaanddae ||

In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥

Giaan Dhhiaan Kashh Soojhai Naahee Chathur Kehaavai Paanddae ||

You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥

Maas Puraanee Maas Kathaebanaee Chahu Jug Maas Kamaanaa ||

Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used.

ਜਜਿ ਕਾਜਿ ਵੀਆਹਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੈ ਓਥੈ ਮਾਸੁ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥

Jaj Kaaj Veeaahi Suhaavai Outhhai Maas Samaanaa ||

It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.

ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਨਿਪਜਹਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾਂ ॥

Eisathree Purakh Nipajehi Maasahu Paathisaah Sulathaanaan ||

Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat.

ਜੇ ਓਇ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਤਾਂ ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਲੈਣਾ ॥

Jae Oue Dhisehi Narak Jaandhae Thaan Ounh Kaa Dhaan N Lainaa ||

If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them.

ਦੇਂਦਾ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਲੈਦੇ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ॥

Dhaenadhaa Narak Surag Laidhae Dhaekhahu Eaehu Dhhin(g)aanaa ||

The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice.

ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਲੋਕ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਖਰਾ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

Aap N Boojhai Lok Bujhaaeae Paanddae Kharaa Siaanaa ||

You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed.

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥

Paanddae Thoo Jaanai Hee Naahee Kithhahu Maas Oupannaa ||

O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated.

ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥

Thoeiahu Ann Kamaadh Kapaahaan Thoeiahu Thribhavan Gannaa ||

Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water.

ਤੋਆ ਆਖੈ ਹਉ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਛਾ ਤੋਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥

Thoaa Aakhai Ho Bahu Bidhh Hashhaa Thoai Bahuth Bikaaraa ||

Water says, ""I am good in many ways."" But water takes many forms.

ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਛੋਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਵਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੨॥

Eaethae Ras Shhodd Hovai Sanniaasee Naanak Kehai Vichaaraa ||2||

Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2||

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

Pourree ||

Pauree:

[Singh559 2,624]

WJKK WJKF

You don't know me. Yet you assume very much about me.

Google "amount of protein to build muscle". Do some research.

What I love about you vegetarians and vegans is you tell others your better, spirituality higher.

I do not need to argue about meat eating. Just don't tell me I need to be a vegetarian or a vegan if I'm a sikh.

I'm on my phone but when I'm on desktop I will disprove your broscience. Look at my post 3 posts or so ago and then tell me I support what youre saying.

[sikhiseeker 253]

I'm on my phone but when I'm on desktop I will disprove your broscience. Look at my post 3 posts or so ago and then tell me I support what youre saying.

WJKK WJKF

Brother, this is not an argument. I have not personally insulted you, I don't believe in that. But as you can see, many a "sikh"' is quick on insulting someone with a different opinion. You also suggested I am taking steroids, why? Can we not debate different opinions and understanding, experiences without getting personal?

I don't understand how you can say there is not such a thing as a healthy weight? Is obesity not the opposite side of the scale to that?

When you go for an operation, you have to be of a certain weight not considered to be obese for your own safety. When ones weight is obese, health issues follow, if you are lighter with a low bmi is that not considered healthy?

Here is a web page on what I'm on about: http://www.builtlean.com/2012/12/24/protein-build-muscle/

Here's a snippet from the page, please read:

When it comes to building some serious muscle, all that work you do in the gym is only half of the battle. The other half takes place in the kitchen. Diet is extremely important when trying to improve your body composition. Without proper nutrients, no matter how much time you spend weight training, you wont get the results youre looking for.

Your muscles are made up of over 25% protein (a very significant amount!) along with up to 75% water and stored glycogen (carbohydrates). While people generally understand that consuming adequate protein is very important to support muscle growth and maintain lean mass, the amount of protein to consume becomes the tricky part.

I ve seen recommendations that range from as low as 50 grams per day to as much as 3 times your bodyweight. Although it sounds good in theory, the traditional more is better approach doesnt necessarily work here. So how much protein do you need when trying to get huge?

Protein To Build Muscle | Common Recommendations

The American Dietetic Associations RDA (recommended daily allowance) for protein is 0.36g per pound of bodyweight. This would mean that as a bare minimum, a 180lb male only needs 65 grams of protein per day to meet requirements. One thing to note is that these requirements are based off of sedentary individuals and those that are more active will have a slightly higher RDA.

The National Strength and Conditioning Association (N.S.C.A.) recommends that active people consume 0.4g to 0.6g per pound of bodyweight with as much as 0.8g for a competitive athlete. What is important to note is that with a higher overall activity level the requirement goes up. I think it is safe to say that if you are trying to build muscle you will be on the higher end of the spectrum.1

Protein To Build Muscle | How Much Is Really Enough?

Popular belief is that in order to build muscle you must consume up to 1.0g of protein per pound of bodyweight. For some of you that might seem high and for others it might seem too low. The answer to that is really, it depends.

Research shows that the average trainee looking to build muscle can benefit anywhere from .6g to around 1.1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. It all really depends on your goals, genetics, and the rest of your diet, but aiming to hit between those targets should be sufficient for most people. For example, a relatively fit 180lb man should aim to consume between 108g and 198g of protein daily for muscle gain.2

What I recommend if you are overweight and trying to reduce your body fat is to aim to consume your target bodyweight in grams. For instance, if a 225lb man wants to reduce his bodyweight to 180lbs through proper training and nutrition he would consume a base of 180g of protein per day.3 It is also important to note that lowering your carbohydrate and fat intake as extremely important as well!

On the other hand, if you are trying to gain weight it might not be a bad idea to eat a few extra grams of protein (along with fat and carbohydrate) to get your calories up.4 You may have heard that consuming extra protein is a waste and that what your body doesnt use will be excreted, but I beg to differ. Although this is partially true, if you are trying to put on size and weight, you need to consume extra calories so now is not the time to nitpick nutrients just eat!

Protein To Build Muscle | Not All Protein Is Created Equal

One question that I get asked frequently is What is are good sources of protein? To answer that you have to first understand that there are two types of protein that occur in nature: complete proteins (all of the amino acids) and incomplete proteins (some of the amino acids). Very simply, complete proteins come from animal source and incomplete proteins come from plant sources.

Whats more is animal proteins have a higher biological value (BV) which means they are more readily used by your body for cellular repair and muscle growth. To set a standard, eggs are given a BV of 100%, beef 80% and beans are less than 50%. What this means for you is the higher quality of protein you consume the more efficiently your body will utilize it.

Speaking of BV, whey protein can have a value of 90% all the way up to 104% depending on the quality of processing. For those of you who have trouble eating enough steak and eggs, this is an easy way to increase your daily protein intake. The only down side is you may get a little stronger. Wink, wink.

Protein To Build Muscle | The Bottom Line

Whether your goal is to build muscle, burn fat, or train like an athlete, you should aim to consume roughly your bodyweight in grams of protein daily to cover all your bases. Since this isnt an exact science, going a little over or a little under shouldnt be detrimental to your results or health. I will, however, argue that it may be better to err on the side of eating a little more rather than eating too little as the drawbacks of undershooting far outweigh the effects of overdoing it.

If youre looking for a program that takes the guesswork out of nutrition and exercise, so you get lean and strong, check out BuiltLeans 12-Week Body Transformation Program.

I'm on my phone but when I'm on desktop I will disprove your broscience. Look at my post 3 posts or so ago and then tell me I support what youre saying.

WJKK WJKF

Brother, this is not an argument. I have not personally insulted you, I don't believe in that. But as you can see, many a "sikh"' is quick on insulting someone with a different opinion. You also suggested I am taking steroids, why? Can we not debate different opinions and understanding, experiences without getting personal?

I don't understand how you can say there is not such a thing as a healthy weight? Is obesity not the opposite side of the scale to that?

When you go for an operation, you have to be of a certain weight not considered to be obese for your own safety. When ones weight is obese, health issues follow, if you are lighter with a low bmi is that not considered healthy?

Here is a web page on what I'm on about: http://www.builtlean.com/2012/12/24/protein-build-muscle/

Here's a snippet from the page, please read:

When it comes to building some serious muscle, all that work you do in the gym is only half of the battle. The other half takes place in the kitchen. Diet is extremely important when trying to improve your body composition. Without proper nutrients, no matter how much time you spend weight training, you wont get the results youre looking for.

Your muscles are made up of over 25% protein (a very significant amount!) along with up to 75% water and stored glycogen (carbohydrates). While people generally understand that consuming adequate protein is very important to support muscle growth and maintain lean mass, the amount of protein to consume becomes the tricky part.

I ve seen recommendations that range from as low as 50 grams per day to as much as 3 times your bodyweight. Although it sounds good in theory, the traditional more is better approach doesnt necessarily work here. So how much protein do you need when trying to get huge?

Protein To Build Muscle | Common Recommendations

The American Dietetic Associations RDA (recommended daily allowance) for protein is 0.36g per pound of bodyweight. This would mean that as a bare minimum, a 180lb male only needs 65 grams of protein per day to meet requirements. One thing to note is that these requirements are based off of sedentary individuals and those that are more active will have a slightly higher RDA.

The National Strength and Conditioning Association (N.S.C.A.) recommends that active people consume 0.4g to 0.6g per pound of bodyweight with as much as 0.8g for a competitive athlete. What is important to note is that with a higher overall activity level the requirement goes up. I think it is safe to say that if you are trying to build muscle you will be on the higher end of the spectrum.1

Protein To Build Muscle | How Much Is Really Enough?

Popular belief is that in order to build muscle you must consume up to 1.0g of protein per pound of bodyweight. For some of you that might seem high and for others it might seem too low. The answer to that is really, it depends.

Research shows that the average trainee looking to build muscle can benefit anywhere from .6g to around 1.1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. It all really depends on your goals, genetics, and the rest of your diet, but aiming to hit between those targets should be sufficient for most people. For example, a relatively fit 180lb man should aim to consume between 108g and 198g of protein daily for muscle gain.2

What I recommend if you are overweight and trying to reduce your body fat is to aim to consume your target bodyweight in grams. For instance, if a 225lb man wants to reduce his bodyweight to 180lbs through proper training and nutrition he would consume a base of 180g of protein per day.3 It is also important to note that lowering your carbohydrate and fat intake as extremely important as well!

On the other hand, if you are trying to gain weight it might not be a bad idea to eat a few extra grams of protein (along with fat and carbohydrate) to get your calories up.4 You may have heard that consuming extra protein is a waste and that what your body doesnt use will be excreted, but I beg to differ. Although this is partially true, if you are trying to put on size and weight, you need to consume extra calories so now is not the time to nitpick nutrients just eat!

Protein To Build Muscle | Not All Protein Is Created Equal

One question that I get asked frequently is What is are good sources of protein? To answer that you have to first understand that there are two types of protein that occur in nature: complete proteins (all of the amino acids) and incomplete proteins (some of the amino acids). Very simply, complete proteins come from animal source and incomplete proteins come from plant sources.

Whats more is animal proteins have a higher biological value (BV) which means they are more readily used by your body for cellular repair and muscle growth. To set a standard, eggs are given a BV of 100%, beef 80% and beans are less than 50%. What this means for you is the higher quality of protein you consume the more efficiently your body will utilize it.

Speaking of BV, whey protein can have a value of 90% all the way up to 104% depending on the quality of processing. For those of you who have trouble eating enough steak and eggs, this is an easy way to increase your daily protein intake. The only down side is you may get a little stronger. Wink, wink.

Protein To Build Muscle | The Bottom Line

Whether your goal is to build muscle, burn fat, or train like an athlete, you should aim to consume roughly your bodyweight in grams of protein daily to cover all your bases. Since this isnt an exact science, going a little over or a little under shouldnt be detrimental to your results or health. I will, however, argue that it may be better to err on the side of eating a little more rather than eating too little as the drawbacks of undershooting far outweigh the effects of overdoing it.

If youre looking for a program that takes the guesswork out of nutrition and exercise, so you get lean and strong, check out BuiltLeans 12-Week Body Transformation Program.

[sikhiseeker 253]

VJKK VJKF

The Shakti side can be achieved without hinsa, ji. I think a lot of people know how to punish the guilty, it is a misconception to think that many (Sikhs) do not know self protection. Besides, does anyone sane think they actually are the reason why they recieve shubh labh in defense? All defense/shakti is Sri Guru Sahib ji's gift to their beloved Sikhs.. We cannot do anything positive without our Sri Guru Sahib ji. & about the nigara, from what my knowledge is, it is made from an already deceased animal (who was not killed). If it is made from the skin of a killed animal, I & many other Sikhs would be against that. I'm against all hunting done from us foolish unenlightened beings. I think it is a misconseption that anyone besides our Sri Guru Sahib ji/brahmgyani through Sikhism can give mukti to an animal through hunting. I've read that shabad, and I think the views I have stated still fit really well and according to the shabad. We as Sikhs eat plants for surviving, and we have no joy/anand in eating. Our enjoyment comes from dharam. Hopefully you will see that the message is to see Paramatma ji is in the hearts of those sentient beings, so it is an aprad to eat meat. If you call yourself a worshipper of Paramatma ji, but will not respect the wishes of Paramatma ji's (innocent) prakirti then that individual is a nastik.

WJKK WJKF

Penji, I think we will have to agree to disagree because you and many other Sikhs denounce all the other historical accounts of our gurus hunting, carrying out jhatka and consuming jhatka. Please refer me to an account of one these naturally dead animal skin merchants in Indian or Sikh history.

Combat skills have to be understood, learnt and practised to be affective in defence? It is not given just how Bhakti is not given. It's achieved. How often do you practice gatka?

This is a difference of opinion, yet you brandish the word "nastik" alittle to quickly I think.

WJKK WJKF

[sikhiseeker 253]

WJKK WJKF

Penji, I think we will have to agree to disagree because you and many other Sikhs denounce all the other historical accounts of our gurus hunting, carrying out jhatka and consuming jhatka. Please refer me to an account of one these naturally dead animal skin merchants in Indian or Sikh history.

Combat skills have to be understood, learnt and practised to be affective in defence. It is not given just how Bhakti is not given. It's achieved. How often do you practice gatka?

At one point in Sikh history Sikhs did not fight, at another point, they fought. You have to physically strong to do this. Not simply eat to survive. This is about practicality of simple warfare on a battlefield. If you are weaker, you will die quicker. I'm not saying you personally lol.

This is a difference of opinion, yet you brandish the word "nastik" alittle to quickly I think.

WJKK WJKF

[Singh559 2,624]

WJKK WJKF

Brother, this is not an argument. I have not personally insulted you, I don't believe in that. But as you can see, many a "sikh"' is quick on insulting someone with a different opinion. You also suggested I am taking steroids, why? Can we not debate different opinions and understanding, experiences without getting personal?

I don't understand how you can say there is not such a thing as a healthy weight? Is obesity not the opposite side of the scale to that?

Although that isn't a reliable source, it is correct due to knowing what the true range is., .6-1.1g is very reasonable and essential - most people will passively get this amount of protein in their diet just from eating an average vegetarian meal. With some work it's easy to hit your exact desired macros on a lean bulk...The only way to build muscle is to ensure you're at the very least at .6gxlb of body weight. If someone weighs 180 lbs - 108g of protein is very very easy. When someone is trying to 'gain' muscle 108g is MORE than enough to put on muscle mass. Only time you should look into playing with your protein and carbs is when you're cutting (like I posted previously). The reason why I touched the steroid subject is because this subject is a pet peeve of mine. A lot of Punjabi people on social media begin to talk about nutrition and whatnot because somehow they've become an authority on the subject by gaining a ridiculous amount of muscle in an unreasonable amount of time (hint: their endocrine system isn't natty lol).

I apologize for the condescending steroid comment, but still stick to what I'm saying.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033492/

Read the macronutrient intake subsection. Someone who is a bodybuilder and does that competition stuff, only they will require a higher source of protein because they're trying to get to an unsustainable dry look to look very lean for the stage. Going catabolic until you are very lean requires high protein to retain the muscle mass and lose body fat - it's not sustainable. When you have a higher bodyfat percentage it is very easy to put on muscle mass so long as you're intaking the BARE minimum protein - you will be anabolic so long as you're in a caloric surplus.

edit- The reason why there is no such thing as healthy weight is because it's subjective. A 5'10" male at 160 lbs can be a lean athlete whereas another 5'10" male at 160 lbs can be skinnyfat.

[singh_comradz 83]

If it's all about being ethical then why not reconsider using an Iphone made by overworked and exploited Chinese workers, the clothes that are made by impoverished people in Bangladesh who work in horrendous conditions, medicines or fragrances that are first tested on animals. The list goes on and on..

If the bottom line is about being ethical and ending suffering then why is it limited to cows? Why not apply those ethics to human suffering?

Where do you draw the line in terms of being ethical or is it easier just avoiding dairy products and ignoring everything else which aids your lifestyle........ to the detriment of others??

[bdemon 17]

If it's all about being ethical then why not reconsider using an Iphone made by overworked and exploited Chinese workers, the clothes that are made by impoverished people in Bangladesh who work in horrendous conditions, medicines or fragrances that are first tested on animals. The list goes on and on..

If the bottom line is about being ethical and ending suffering then why is it limited to cows? Why not apply those ethics to human suffering?

Where do you draw the line in terms of being ethical or is it easier just avoiding dairy products and ignoring everything else which aids your lifestyle........ to the detriment of others??

it shouldnt be limited to cows, we as sikhs need to save the world one step at a time, being vegan so simple but it has a huge impact, because its achievable through ommission, and we should be ethical as much as practically possible.

also like i keep saying, by bring vegan you are also helping to end human suffering, firstly by being more effective with food and grain on the earth,i.e if we dont feed the cows grain we can feed starving humans and end world hunger and also for helping over population in the world we use up 1/3 of the earths surface for animal agriculture, thirdly, less pollution which means less people are getting sick and we can be stewards of the earth like we should be.

all of this and more can be achieved just by choosing to eat one thing instead of another, whats wxcuse do you have not to be vegan ?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

it shouldnt be limited to cows, we as sikhs need to save the world one step at a time, being vegan so simple but it has a huge impact, because its achievable through ommission, and we should be ethical as much as practically possible.

also like i keep saying, by bring vegan you are also helping to end human suffering, firstly by being more effective with food and grain on the earth,i.e if we dont feed the cows grain we can feed starving humans and end world hunger and also for helping over population in the world we use up 1/3 of the earths surface for animal agriculture, thirdly, less pollution which means less people are getting sick and we can be stewards of the earth like we should be.

all of this and more can be achieved just by choosing to eat one thing instead of another, whats wxcuse do you have not to be vegan ?

You keep repeating the same ideas without being logical about it, even if we lived in your world, most people would still be starving, probably even more. I'm also assuming you don't have much agricultural experience either, this will only make farmers have to speed up food production by a lot since now everyone is vegan, it will also decrease the organic quality because of the need to use GMO's, (Genetically Modified Foods). Just be honest and admit that you don't have the answers to this situation, unless you work in a farm and have actually grown food which other people eat, you won't understand the basics of this idea.

[Singh559 2,624]

If it's all about being ethical then why not reconsider using an Iphone made by overworked and exploited Chinese workers, the clothes that are made by impoverished people in Bangladesh who work in horrendous conditions, medicines or fragrances that are first tested on animals. The list goes on and on..

If the bottom line is about being ethical and ending suffering then why is it limited to cows? Why not apply those ethics to human suffering?

Where do you draw the line in terms of being ethical or is it easier just avoiding dairy products and ignoring everything else which aids your lifestyle........ to the detriment of others??

Agreed that is why I'm not vegan and just vegetarian. Veganism is great so long as there isn't a holier than thou attitude with one who follows it. Respect to people who can but like I said in my first page that it's wrong to become complacent.