Help -seeing Guru Ji Visions

[sikhni777]

: ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਪੰਥੀ

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ਮੁਲਿ ਨ ਮਿਲੈ ਅਮੋਲੁ ਨ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ।

Muli N Milai Amolu N Keemati Paaeeai.

मुलि न मिलै अमोलु न कीमति पाईऐ ।

The way of life of gurmukhs is invaluable;

1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੧

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ਪਾਇ ਤਰਾਜੂ ਤੋਲ ਨ ਅਤੁਲੁ ਤੁਲਾਈਐ।

Paai Taraajoo Tolu N Atulu Tulaaeeai.

पाइ तराजू तोलु न अतुलु तुलाईऐ ।

It cannot be purchased; on weighing scale it cannot be weighed.

2 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੨

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ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਤਖਤੁ ਅਡੋਲੁ ਨ ਡੋਲੁ ਡੋਲਾਈਐ।

Nij Ghari Takhatu Adolu N Doli Dolaaeeai.

निज घरि तखतु अडोलु न डोलि डोलाईऐ ।

Stabilizing in one’s own self and not getting frivolous in his way of life.

3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੩

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ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਥ ਨਿਰੋਲੁ ਨ ਰਲੇ ਰਲਾਈਐ।

Guramoukhi Pand Nirolu N Ralay Ralaaeeai.

गुरमुखि पंथ निरोलु न रले रलाईऐ ।

This way is distinct and does not become defiled even when joined with some one else.

4 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੪

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ਕਥਾ ਅਕਥ ਅਬੋਲ ਨ ਬੋਲ ਬੁਲਾਈਐ।

Kadaa Akad Abolu N Bol Bulaaeeai.

कथा अकथ अबोलु न बोल बुलाईऐ ।

Its story is indescribable.

5 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੫

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ਸਦਾ ਅਭੁਲੁ ਅਭੋਲ ਨ ਭੋਲਿ ਭੁਲਾਈਐ।

Sadaa Abhulu Abholu N Bholi Bhulaaeeai.

सदा अभुलु अभोलु न भोलि भुलाईऐ ।

This way transcends all ommissions and all anxieties.

6 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੬

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ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਥੁ ਅਲੋਲੁ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ।

Guramoukhi Pandu Alolu Sahaji Samaaeeai.

गुरमुखि पंथु अलोलु सहजि समाईऐ ।

Absorbed in equipoise this gurmukh-way of life gives balance to life.

7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੭

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ਅਮਿਉ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਝੋਲੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈਐ।

Amiu Sarovar Jholu Guramoukhi Paaeeai.

अमिउ सरोवर झोलु गुरमुखि पाईऐ ।

The gurmukh quaffs from the tank of nectar.

8 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੮

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ਲਖ ਟੋਲੀ ਇਕੁ ਟੋਲੁ ਨ ਆਪੁ ਗਣਾਈਐ ॥੫॥

Lakh Tolee Ik Tolu N Aapu Ganaaeeai ॥5॥

लख टोली इक टोलु न आपु गणाईऐ ॥५॥

The end result of lacs of experiences is the gurmukh never exhibits his ego.

9 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੫ ਪੰ. ੯

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A Gurmukh will get lakhs of experiences. It may take some time for her to come to terms with it and lead a normal life.

Let us assume she has just got a little bit of the start of all which a Gurmukh experiences, but like all new experiences - they have to learn to deal with it.

A line from someone who was reading some book on meditation

During these stages one can come into contact with visions/forms etc which try and draw in the seeker to hinder the progress.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/12279-meditation-my-experiance-am-i-allowed-to-share/?page=7

go to the bottom of the page.

[Guest Sat]

Your mum sounds alot like how I was. When I started waking up at 4am, I started getting visions, seeing the Gurus, saw them in heaven etc.

But with me, I've seen demons from a really young age, so when I started having darshans it was a welcomed change lol.

However I began to eventually withdraw from everyday life, from interactions with people and from experiencing joy love and happiness.

I've had highs and Alot of lows, and stopped talking Alot more than I used to.

I began to be bullied by Alot of people who kicked me while I was down and vulnerable, people prey on vulnerable people which I have found to be utterly disgusting and has made me vow never to do nindya of/ bully another human being. If your mum gets bullied and calld mentally ill etc, stick up for her because Bullies are insecure cowards and believing them and sitting by listening to them makes u an insecure loser aswell.

If your mum is having darshans, she is not mentally ill, she is being shown things, and you should respect that she is on her own path. However if you feel that counselling may help with her mood swings, sadness and not enjoying her life then by all means encourage her to go. Counsellers can help greatly in teaching you to heal yourself and see life in a more positive light, beyond the bullsh*t in the world.

[Guest Prof Dalvinder Singh]

Hallucinations do come sometimes during meditation but not this kind.She appears to have built up a cocoon around a vision she created for herself without understanding gurbani. She has to get out of this stage herself. She has to realize herself since no one can force her out of it. She needs to understand gurbani. She however can be made to understand and realize this with the active help of sangat or those who have experiences in meditation. She must do Naam simran and transfer her dhyan from visible visualisations to the one invisible. Possibly it has gone into her mind that she is too much with the physical gurus which is not the right approach. Sikhism does not believe in visible visualisations.

[sikhni777]

How do you know (sorry to ask this) it was demons you were seeing and not fragments of your imagination as from what I see the kids watching all the time these days, on the T.V. are dreary images hardly worth classiying as cartoons and they love them to bits.

[Guest bani]

wjkkwjkf

OP here again, firstly i want to thank you all for the links and advice you have provided me, appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.

From some of the posts above it seems like this could truly be dharsans- which just poses more questions.

Observing my mother (a women that was strong, smart, bubbly, jovial in nature) suddenly stare with hands folded and talk/ asking for forgiveness from a thin air is one of the most surreal and terrifying experiences in my life till date. if any "normal" person would see this i am sure they would be more than perplexed. But then how come i never observe this behaviour in other singhs and singhni's? have they some how learnt to 'control' it?

one of the thing she says is that she hears scolding/abuses all day (she thinks that it some sort of punishment) so much so that she cries and even gets angry with god but few moments later she says some one makes her laugh with jokes and good memories. she says she can only see a faint outline of light which gets stronger with every dharsan. Has anyone else experienced this...curious to know what others have gone through, what are the stages?

i have tried to convince her to seek medical advice. I have told her if these truly are visions then any professional help should not really stop them from occurring and she should go for the sake of rest of the family if not for her self. she reluctantly has agreed (for now) but i'll keep you posted.

I have also asked her to take care with her nutrition and also to stop waking up so early for few days (i know iam going to cop some slack for this, but i do think that sleep deprivation is also a contributing factor). she seems ok for the last few days because of the above or the fact that she is no longer talking to me about it. we will see

wjkkwjkf

[sikhni777]

just read this.. thought I will add it on here. It is from http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/17244-avoid-disclosing-spiritual-status/

Between sorry for talking too much but is sharing experiences really

Bad ?

Its only bad when we share it with ego (hankaar) (share only if u conquered ego)

Pls allow us narrate our story

I wasn't in sikhi much

Didn't even use to read single baani whole day

Was totally full of doubts

Didn't even believe in God

Used to play video games all day LOL

My mother. Is completely innocent (bholi)

She got jugti of naam abhyaas from a saint

And after 30 days she had experiences she started sharing

Me first

She told me how she felt she was flying

Then she told me how she had darshan of pavirtar rooh (she told how Devi and devta came to ave darshan of person who is chanting naam

Then she told me how her voice stopped and she was fixed in simran

And then in end she told me how she could enter smaadhi but later broke it with mistake (coz of bad karma)

When she narrated me this my curiosity knew no bounds so I walked on Naam abyhaas path I imitated her jugti :p

(Copy pasted coz of veer g request

[simran345]

wjkkwjkf

OP here again, firstly i want to thank you all for the links and advice you have provided me, appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.

From some of the posts above it seems like this could truly be dharsans- which just poses more questions.

Observing my mother (a women that was strong, smart, bubbly, jovial in nature) suddenly stare with hands folded and talk/ asking for forgiveness from a thin air is one of the most surreal and terrifying experiences in my life till date. if any "normal" person would see this i am sure they would be more than perplexed. But then how come i never observe this behaviour in other singhs and singhni's? have they some how learnt to 'control' it?

one of the thing she says is that she hears scolding/abuses all day (she thinks that it some sort of punishment) so much so that she cries and even gets angry with god but few moments later she says some one makes her laugh with jokes and good memories. she says she can only see a faint outline of light which gets stronger with every dharsan. Has anyone else experienced this...curious to know what others have gone through, what are the stages?

i have tried to convince her to seek medical advice. I have told her if these truly are visions then any professional help should not really stop them from occurring and she should go for the sake of rest of the family if not for her self. she reluctantly has agreed (for now) but i'll keep you posted.

I have also asked her to take care with her nutrition and also to stop waking up so early for few days (i know iam going to cop some slack for this, but i do think that sleep deprivation is also a contributing factor). she seems ok for the last few days because of the above or the fact that she is no longer talking to me about it. we will see

wjkkwjkf

With all due respect to your mother, the scolding/abusing sounds do not seem right to me. But I do not know if that is part of spirituality.

God does not punish, it's our own past karm that set the present and future for us.

When she says someone makes her laugh and joke with good memories, who someone?

Does she get paranoid or nervous?

Yes fatigue/tiredness may cause some weird symptoms that one would not expect. She should be getting the right amount of sleep.

From reading your latest post OP, it's difficult to tell whether they are spiritual experiences fully. Some could be and others could not.

Is she on any medication? Has there been a loss in the family recently?

Sorry to ask all this, but it's some things to consider.

One of my friends had some experiences, with some knowledge, so I will ask them if what you have described as spiritual experiences.

I'm not sure about the crying and anger bit from what she hears, that seems like depression. Or it could be a negative spirit she is experiencing. Im assuming she does Mool Mantar or Waheguru jaap?

I don't wish to offend you, but just see how it goes when she gets proper sleep. The reason she is not talking about it to you, may also be she is afraid to say anything now, so you don't judge her or think negative about it, that you don't believe her.

You need to be understanding and calm with her, so she feels she can trust her family.

Regarding the visual experiences, she should not pay much attention to them. Whatever is happening, it should not obstruct her path to God, and make sure she is looking after herself, her diet etc. Not just herself, but also family members should check she is.

Make sure she's not withdrawn from the world, sit with her, talk to her about normal life, etc like you do, involving her in activities with the family, so that she is not on her own for long periods.

Bhul chuk maf karna ji, je Kuch galat keha hove.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

wjkkwjkf

OP here again, firstly i want to thank you all for the links and advice you have provided me, appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.

From some of the posts above it seems like this could truly be dharsans- which just poses more questions.

Observing my mother (a women that was strong, smart, bubbly, jovial in nature) suddenly stare with hands folded and talk/ asking for forgiveness from a thin air is one of the most surreal and terrifying experiences in my life till date. if any "normal" person would see this i am sure they would be more than perplexed. But then how come i never observe this behaviour in other singhs and singhni's? have they some how learnt to 'control' it?

one of the thing she says is that she hears scolding/abuses all day (she thinks that it some sort of punishment) so much so that she cries and even gets angry with god but few moments later she says some one makes her laugh with jokes and good memories. she says she can only see a faint outline of light which gets stronger with every dharsan. Has anyone else experienced this...curious to know what others have gone through, what are the stages?

i have tried to convince her to seek medical advice. I have told her if these truly are visions then any professional help should not really stop them from occurring and she should go for the sake of rest of the family if not for her self. she reluctantly has agreed (for now) but i'll keep you posted.

I have also asked her to take care with her nutrition and also to stop waking up so early for few days (i know iam going to cop some slack for this, but i do think that sleep deprivation is also a contributing factor). she seems ok for the last few days because of the above or the fact that she is no longer talking to me about it. we will see

wjkkwjkf

Does she feel guilt or forgiveness from the Darshan, I honestly don't think it's a medical problem, but rather a spiritual problem. Have you seen any GurSikhs for this?

[sikhni777]

I recall reading something about somebody having read Babu surat Singh and then he laughed and cried. Cannot remember exactly what and where.

Recently I read about someone forbidding interactions with these forms which we can see in the visions as they come back to disturb the person meditating. It seems possible that this is what your mother may have ended up doing. It was in the continuation of that thread that I posted earlier. Either way, it can seem a bit daunting to deal with. However experience is the best teacher. Perhaps reading about it on that thread I posted earlier would help you advise your mum better.

Found that part

have had dreams in which I have seen mahapursh and some I have met physically, I can't say I'm very close to any and that I have a personal relationship with them. Yes I do try and attend sangat of any that I can. What I do not know is if visions in sleep were just dreams or actual visions of some kind. I try not to dwell on that stuff anymore. My focus now is only the gurmantar and anhad bani that Sri Guru Granth sahib ji stresses upon so much. I have also heard stories of people having darshan in meditations, then riddhiasiddhia started, then those same beings started harassing the meditator. So I am not so keen on that side of things.

Yes certain groups do place a lot of focus on sargun darshan and each have their own path. I have great respect for all but I like to focus on the path of shabad guru surt dhun chela as that is what works for me.

However I suppose it is more important to be supportive so that she can confide in you without you judging her. It might just have been a one off occurrence. Hopefully she should be able to continue on her meditative journey much more successfully.

The best you can do is to encourage your mum to concentrate on just the word of Waheguru or the gurmantar.

[Guest Check]

Hi I don't think that the scolding and abuse sounds right, perhaps you should speak to her about it and see exactly what the spirits say.

I experienced a spirit who spoke through someone once who was posing as an angel. I found out what kind of things it was saying and realised that it was contrary to gurbani. So it would be worth asking.