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On 04/06/2016 at 11:58 PM, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh,

After doing much itihaas i have found it that the darshan of Sri Dasam and Sarbloh Darbar is of utmost importance for the sake of the chardikala of the Sikh panth alongside Satguru Granth sahib ji maharaj. What can be done in the uk and in sangats across the world to install sri Dasam granth and Sarbloh Granth as seen in Takht Sri Hazoor sahib were the maryada of the tisarpanth seems to be alive and well aswell as shastar darshan.Can those of us that believe this to be an important issue do anything to create change?

This will be slow but should happen. Dasam bani knowledge is urgently needed for sikhs all over the world. If sikhs had chartripakhyan knowledge gyaan it could help with the kanjar dating stuff and drink pub club smoke culture mentality bringing us down. Also dasme pathsha banis promote the mind to support carrying shastar. Sarbloh Granth will take more difficulty for panth to understand, but is required.

Slowly, slowly need to bring banis back into nitnem before these changes. 

-bring more dasam banis into nitnem, and promote longer Chaupai Sahib and Tav prasad Swaiye. Add Chandi banis and shastarnaam mala. some gurdwaras I see are now doing the longer Chaupai paat. Sampooran Rehraas and also full Aarti Aarta with Guru Gobind Singh ji baniya, not the short one they do in Harimandir Sahib. THEN, things will change.

However, also remember that alot of parkash might be done by Chakarvarti Singhs or outside gurdwaras. Remember rehati Singhs might be living outside and travelling. Gurdwaras had much more sehajdhari sangat before Singh Sabha movement, so may have just had Adi Guru Granth parkash. In fact, there were gurdwaras that just had shastar prakash only, and no granth parkash. This would have reduced beadbi greatly, as Adi Granth saroop were handwritten and larivaar, and not SGPC printing press copies. The saroop would more likely be at gurdwaras with sewadaars, and not lonely, quiet gurdwaras. Now that gurdwaras are controlled by amrit dharis, why are the gurdwaras still only parkash Adi Guru Granth, this is more like sehajdhari gurdwara. If the mahants have been removed, then why are gurdwaras only concentrating on bani for wider panth and not Khalsa panth. It is making gurdwaras into sehajdhari gurdwaras, and sehajdhari mentaltiy - this would be pefectly fine for gurdwaras that are not under khalsa panth and under sehajdharis or sehajdhari mahants

 

On 05/06/2016 at 9:09 PM, GurburAkal said:

I am welcome to this idea, but SDGS and SSGS should not be prakashon the same level as SGGS.

prakash should be very much lower, so that we show respect to our Guru.

I have full faith and respect for Dasam Bani, but I think we need to remember our GURU is SGGS.

Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is our GURU, they are not just a granth.

Although I do feel Dasve Patshah Dee Bani needs to return to our Gurdwara Sahibs

And along with keeping nice shiny shastars prakash , I think we should also buy firearms and keep them locked up in a gun safe to protect the Gurdwara Sahib if need be. Shastars aren't only for show, contrary to popular belief.

I think it might have been this forum where I read words of Guru Gobind Singh, where the pothis are consider siblings or children of Adi Granth. Parkash of pothis can be done a bit lower or nearby.

On 05/06/2016 at 2:25 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

For Shastars you make Gatka the up most importance for an activity in the Gurdwara that anyone can do, (many people won't be inspired just looking at Shastars if you asked them. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

instead of the gatka dancing done by mainstream, we should have archery and shooting ranges set up in the big gurdwaras. Look how much space there is in Singh Sabha Havelock Southall! LEarning archery and shooting is much more useful then modern gatka.

shastar vidiya (or i guess some gatka) is important, but only if we can find the correct teachers. otherwise need to complement with martial arts. But also important to have wrestling/mal yudh and kabaddi also aids in this. Remember Guru Angad setup up wrestling akharas. So why are we not doing this? And most of the kabaddi players are moneh, why are amrit dharis not picking this up? see some aspects of shastar vidiya such as mal yudh/wrestling is easily available yet we are not implementing it!

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh, After doing much itihaas i have found it that the darshan of Sri Dasam and Sarbloh Darbar is of utmost importance for the sake of the chardikala of the Sik

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Find evidence in history that shows that when the Gurgaddi was transferred, parkash of Dasam Granth Sahib was also done and coconut and 5 paise were pl

This will be slow but should happen. Dasam bani knowledge is urgently needed for sikhs all over the world. If sikhs had chartripakhyan knowledge gyaan it could help with the kanjar dating stuff and dr

45 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

This one statement proves my point. 

Doesn't prove anything.

first padd ched saroop & Gutka Sahibs were written by shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji .... some in puratan sampardai believe that Bhai Mani Singh being cut bhund by bhund was the price they had to pay for cutting Gurbani up into padd ched saroop.... which was actually done by Bhai Mani Singh to assist the panth in the future by making Gurbani easier to read for the masses.

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Doesn't prove anything.

first padd ched saroop & Gutka Sahibs were written by shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji .... some in puratan sampardai believe that Bhai Mani Singh being cut bhund by bhund was the price they had to pay for cutting Gurbani up into padd ched saroop.... which was actually done by Bhai Mani Singh to assist the panth in the future by making Gurbani easier to read for the masses.

but the truth is what was done for learning the bisrams etc has now been used to transform and mutilate full saroops and even to sneak in changes to bani, I'm sure that is not what our bazurg had intended but to maintain the awe and respect of unbroken Guru ji and strive to be worthy of being a granthi i.e. Vizier of Guru Sahib, by going through full training of santhiya, raag etc 

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On 9/5/2017 at 9:09 AM, jkvlondon said:

please i read that apart from beadbhi of Dasam Granth the perpetrator called the granth full of filth and threw it from the window and it was not mentioned that person was a nihang but someone in the Singh Sabha movement determined to remove the Granth from its rightful place by Guru ji's side. has no one considered the position that the two Granths of Dasmesh Pita ji act as pehradars/generals of the Guru organising the fauj? 

That's interesting considering the Singh Sabha had a lot of pro-Sri Dasam Granth Sahib individuals (even Bhasaur Singh Sabha did, before it went downhill).

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15 hours ago, SoulSingh said:

lol I'm really confused now, can I at least know if nihungs and the singh sabha movement had a rivalry/ didn't get along with each other.

More complicated than that. It's more of a battle between Reformist branches v.s. Traditional branches.

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Also we argue over doing Dasam Granth parkash yet we allow playing of harmonium inside gurdwaras on the same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib? The same instrument which Akali Phoola Singh didn't allow in Harimandir sahib and said that it is "kanjaraa da gham"?

Seriously, having Dasam Granth prakash is way more respectful than the disrespect of using harmonium on same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib. At least those that are not for prakash should promote raag instruments, why no taos/dilruba/saranga/rabab being played on Guru's darbar, which are Guru hukam anyway?

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5 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

Also we argue over doing Dasam Granth parkash yet we allow playing of harmonium inside gurdwaras on the same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib? The same instrument which Akali Phoola Singh didn't allow in Harimandir sahib and said that it is "kanjaraa da gham"?

Seriously, having Dasam Granth prakash is way more respectful than the disrespect of using harmonium on same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib. At least those that are not for prakash should promote raag instruments, why no taos/dilruba/saranga/rabab being played on Guru's darbar, which are Guru hukam anyway?

First of all, why are you bringing in instruments? Secondly, vajay Da Ki kasoor aa? I understand that many want Tanti-Saj Sangeet but any musician will tell you that no instrument is worth the insult "kanjra Da kham"... I doubt akali phoola singh has said that, I need proof. 

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On 9/6/2017 at 5:06 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

Doesn't prove anything.

first padd ched saroop & Gutka Sahibs were written by shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji .... some in puratan sampardai believe that Bhai Mani Singh being cut bhund by bhund was the price they had to pay for cutting Gurbani up into padd ched saroop.... which was actually done by Bhai Mani Singh to assist the panth in the future by making Gurbani easier to read for the masses.

Bhai Mani Singh Ji didn't do Padd Chedd (splitting the conjoined words) of Guru Sahib Ji's sarroop, he rearranged the Banis. The Sarroop was probably still Larrivaar. 

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On 9/6/2017 at 3:22 AM, ipledgeblue said:

This will be slow but should happen. Dasam bani knowledge is urgently needed for sikhs all over the world. If sikhs had chartripakhyan knowledge gyaan it could help with the kanjar dating stuff and drink pub club smoke culture mentality bringing us down. Also dasme pathsha banis promote the mind to support carrying shastar. Sarbloh Granth will take more difficulty for panth to understand, but is required.

Slowly, slowly need to bring banis back into nitnem before these changes. 

-bring more dasam banis into nitnem, and promote longer Chaupai Sahib and Tav prasad Swaiye. Add Chandi banis and shastarnaam mala. some gurdwaras I see are now doing the longer Chaupai paat. Sampooran Rehraas and also full Aarti Aarta with Guru Gobind Singh ji baniya, not the short one they do in Harimandir Sahib. THEN, things will change.

However, also remember that alot of parkash might be done by Chakarvarti Singhs or outside gurdwaras. Remember rehati Singhs might be living outside and travelling. Gurdwaras had much more sehajdhari sangat before Singh Sabha movement, so may have just had Adi Guru Granth parkash. In fact, there were gurdwaras that just had shastar prakash only, and no granth parkash. This would have reduced beadbi greatly, as Adi Granth saroop were handwritten and larivaar, and not SGPC printing press copies. The saroop would more likely be at gurdwaras with sewadaars, and not lonely, quiet gurdwaras. Now that gurdwaras are controlled by amrit dharis, why are the gurdwaras still only parkash Adi Guru Granth, this is more like sehajdhari gurdwara. If the mahants have been removed, then why are gurdwaras only concentrating on bani for wider panth and not Khalsa panth. It is making gurdwaras into sehajdhari gurdwaras, and sehajdhari mentaltiy - this would be pefectly fine for gurdwaras that are not under khalsa panth and under sehajdharis or sehajdhari mahants

 

I think it might have been this forum where I read words of Guru Gobind Singh, where the pothis are consider siblings or children of Adi Granth. Parkash of pothis can be done a bit lower or nearby.

instead of the gatka dancing done by mainstream, we should have archery and shooting ranges set up in the big gurdwaras. Look how much space there is in Singh Sabha Havelock Southall! LEarning archery and shooting is much more useful then modern gatka.

shastar vidiya (or i guess some gatka) is important, but only if we can find the correct teachers. otherwise need to complement with martial arts. But also important to have wrestling/mal yudh and kabaddi also aids in this. Remember Guru Angad setup up wrestling akharas. So why are we not doing this? And most of the kabaddi players are moneh, why are amrit dharis not picking this up? see some aspects of shastar vidiya such as mal yudh/wrestling is easily available yet we are not implementing it!

In regards to your point about shooting. A Khalsa would need to accomodate and thoroughly educate him/herself with modern warfare and weaponry, How can you UK wale do that in the UK? 

You people only have access to airsoft ammo, and I'm not sure what kind of guns, but probably not the kind that are similar to modern weaponry. Being a skilled shooter or gunman (let alone Soldier)  isn't just about accurately aiming and pulling a trigger. 

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On 08/09/2017 at 0:13 AM, akaltaksal said:

In regards to your point about shooting. A Khalsa would need to accomodate and thoroughly educate him/herself with modern warfare and weaponry, How can you UK wale do that in the UK? 

You people only have access to airsoft ammo, and I'm not sure what kind of guns, but probably not the kind that are similar to modern weaponry. Being a skilled shooter or gunman (let alone Soldier)  isn't just about accurately aiming and pulling a trigger. 

Actually some of the higher class people in uk are part of hunting clubs which use horses. Some of their shikkar is foxes. PErhaps UK Singhs could adapt this to something else?

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4 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

Actually some of the higher class people in uk are part of hunting clubs which use horses. Some of their shikkar is foxes. PErhaps UK Singhs could adapt this to something else?

If we talk about modern combat. It would require learning how to pie an area, Assembling and disassembling rifles and handguns along with their anatomy and the science of it all, Learning how to move at any needed pace and adjust your aim and focus accordingly, surveilling or clearing any given area, etc. It's a lot. Here in the US, we have former Navy Seals and Marines who run training camps for any interested adult. They teach what they know. You guys should look for  something similar in the UK.

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On 04/06/2016 at 11:58 PM, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

 

 What can be done in the uk and in sangats across the world to install sri Dasam granth and Sarbloh Granth as seen in Takht Sri Hazoor sahib were the maryada of the tisarpanth seems to be alive and well aswell as shastar darshan.

 

Traditionally the parkash of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth was done at the Takhts and chhounis/samprdai deras. No other Gurdwara that I know of had parkash of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth that I have heard of so far ie Sri Nankana Sahib.

 

On 02/09/2017 at 4:20 PM, ms514 said:

 

Find evidence in history that shows that when the Gurgaddi was transferred, parkash of Dasam Granth Sahib was also done and coconut and 5 paise were placed in front of Dasam Granth Sahib and/or Sarbloh Granth Sahib (same ceremony that was conducted to transfer Guruship from 1st to 10th Patshahi).  That might do it in a convincing manner.

 

I don't think that history is available. You want evidence that Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth was present? Read on...

 

On 04/09/2017 at 2:40 PM, Guest AnonSengh said:

There is historical proof when Gurgaddi was transferred. In Bhatt Vahi, Bhatt Narbud Singh writes Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Gurgaddi to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

 

Where is this Vahi? The last person that I know of who claimed to see this Vahi was Giani Gian Singh and that was over 120 years. Where has it gone? Did one actually exist?

The first concrete mention of Guru Gobind Singh giving gurgaddi to Aad Granth was written by Bhai Koer Singh in Gurbilas in 1751. Even those eye-witness writers make no mention of Guru Sahib giving gurgaddi to Aad Granth. ie Kavi Senapti , Dhadi Nath Mal.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

We have actual factual evidence that Guru Gobind Singh Jee did Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Bhatt Narbud Singh).

 

Ok, let's see it.

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

Sri Dasam Granth Parkash was only started in the mid-1800's, no earlier source writes that Sri Dasam Granth parkash was done. Another reason why I think this practice of doing Sri Dasam Granth parkash on the same Takht as Guru Jee is man made by us because we now have people doing Parkash of Sarabloh Granth too, this is nowhere written in History. Also, Sri Dasam Granth is not even a standard Granth. Sikhs from back in the day used to make their own Pothis of Dasam Baani that they called the Dasam Granth.

 

Ok so we have the FIRST written evidence of the parkash of both granth in 1800s. Does that mean that the practice was only started 1 or 5 days before? That is a very poor argument to state that parkash only started from the time somone witnessed it and wrote it down.

 

For this statement alone, you should be banned from this forum. Nothing personal, but if you are posting lies to confuse other Sikhs, then you have no place on a Sikh forum.

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

 

 Another reason why I think this practice of doing Sri Dasam Granth parkash on the same Takht as Guru Jee is man made by us because we now have people doing Parkash of Sarabloh Granth too, this is nowhere written in History.

 

Written in history? Where has the vidhi for Amrit Sinchar been written in history? What are the 5 k's according to what has been written in history?

 

There are SO MANY things about Sihi that have not been written in history, but passed down through seena-baseena tradtions. You want to only beleive what is written down in history? That is a very slippery slope.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 3:56 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

It's in the photo:

The Date on the Bir is 1755BK, which is 1698, as we know, but look closely:

It says  ਸ੍ਰੀਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ, you can also see Vaheguru is missing a Sihari before the ਹ.

 

Makes no difference how these words are written. The meaning is absolutley clear.

On 06/09/2017 at 3:56 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

Also, there is some controversy if ੴ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥ is the correct manglacharan, or ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥ is the correct one.

 

There is no controversy. Both are equally valid. It's like any Sikh saying Satguru Granth Sahib or Sri Guru Granth Sahib. 

 

If you are creating posts like this, to me, it is very apparent where your thoughts are on this subject.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

 

It was only until 1897, under Khem Singh Bedi's (Same Guy who Ran the Singh Sabha) Sodhak Committee standardized the Sri Dasam Granth that is being printed for over a century now.

 

It was only in  the 1940s when the SGPC standardized SGGS (from having many birs with lots of differences in them) to the one that is being printed for almost 70 years now. So what? Does that mean the SGGS should be given less respect?

 

On 07/09/2017 at 3:20 PM, ipledgeblue said:

 The same instrument which Akali Phoola Singh didn't allow in Harimandir sahib and said that it is "kanjaraa da gham"?

 

 

Akali Ji died in 1823, the harmonium came to Panjab in around 1880s.

 

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Also read: Punjab govt sets up SIT to probe if Lakhbir Singh was ‘lured’ to Singhu border  What Nihangs claimed Nihang leaders, meanwhile, claimed that Lakhbir had come to their “dera” some days ago and allegedly entered the bus where the granths were placed and removed the cloth in which the Sarbloh Granth was wrapped. The Nihangs camping at the Singhu border had housed the three granths in a bus near their living area. “He ran away with the Sarbloh Granth and we caught him with it. There were boxes of matchsticks lying there and we suspect that he had come to do something big,” said Nihang leader Baba Raja Raj Singh during a press conference at the Singhu border Sunday. Also read: ‘Devil & deep blue sea’: Why Punjab’s politicians are silent on Singhu Dalit lynching  
    • https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/afghanistans-sikhs-to-make-choice-between-converting-to-islam-or-leaving-country-report/articleshow/87204174.cms As the security scenario in Afghanistan continues to deteriorate, Sikhs -- a community that was already in a dire situation before the collapse of the government -- practically have to make a choice between options of "converting to Sunni Islam or run away" from Afghanistan, said a report.The community, which once numbered in the tens of thousands, has been ruined and devastated by years of emigration and death, driven by both systemic discrimination and an uptick in fanatical religious violence
    • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59015889   Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous? Published 4 hours ago Share IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES On a film set, a real-life tragedy has happened. Police say US actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on a film set in New Mexico. They were working on the film Rust. Tributes have been paid to Ms Hutchins, 42, while Mr Baldwin is said to be distraught. One local paper found him in tears outside Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office. An investigation is under way and we don't yet know what went wrong. A spokesman for Mr Baldwin said there had been an accident on the set involving the misfire of a prop gun with blanks. Such incidents are rare and the news has stunned the film industry. The use of firearms on set is subject to stringent safety standards. "On the film I recently made, even my plastic gun, I had to sign out, sign in every day," said Australian actor Rhys Muldoon. "So that's why this particular case is so incredibly baffling." Despite sounding innocuous, both prop guns and blanks can be dangerous. Here's what we know about them. What is a prop gun? Blanks are used in the film industry to imitate live ammunition. The reason they are so convincing is that blanks are essentially modified real bullets. While the term "bullet" is commonly used to describe what is loaded into weapons, more properly it is a cartridge that is loaded: a self-contained ammunition package made up of a casing holding an explosive powder that when fired, blasts out a projectile, or bullet. Blanks differ because although they use explosive they don't use a projectile. A prop gun could mean a range of items, from non-functioning weapons to cap guns. But it can also mean a real weapon, or one adapted for firing blanks. Together they add authenticity to productions - fire a blank using a prop gun and you'll get a loud bang, a recoil and what's known as a muzzle flash, the visible light created by the combustion of the powder. Has this kind of incident happened before? Yes. You may remember Brandon Lee, the actor son of martial arts legend Bruce Lee. Brandon Lee died aged just 28 in 1993 while filming The Crow, when a prop gun which mistakenly had a dummy round loaded in it was fired at him. Dummy rounds contain no explosive charge and in this case were used to film a close-up. When blanks were loaded part of the dummy round remained in the gun. After Lee was shot, the cameras kept rolling. It was only when he did not get up at the end of the scene that those on set realised something was wrong. In another incident, in 1984, US actor Jon-Erik Hexum started joking around on the set of a television show after being frustrated by delays in filming. He loaded a revolver with a blank, spun the chamber, put the gun to his temple and fired. Unlike Lee, he was not killed by a projectile, but rather the force of the blast was strong enough to fracture his skull. He died days later in hospital. How can blanks and props be used safely? Hexum's death highlights a problem with blanks - even without a projectile they pack enormous power. Adding to the risk, some film sets use extra powder to make the visual impact stronger. Film sets usually have strict rules about the use of prop guns. Specialists provide weapons for use on film sets and advise on their use. "There's basic safety measures on every set," said Mike Tristano, an armourer who has worked with Alec Baldwin in the past. "You never point a gun, even if it is not a firing gun, at anyone else. I'm at a loss how this could have happened and how it could have done that much damage." A common shot in film shows an actor firing into the camera and Steven Hall, who has worked on films such as Fury and The Imitation Game, says it only happens with safeguards. "If you are in the line of fire... You would have a face mask, you would have goggles, you would stand behind a Perspex screen, and you would minimise the number of people by the camera, " he said. "What I don't understand in this instance is how two people have been injured, one tragically killed, in the same event." Others working in film wondered why, at a time when gun effects can be cheaply added using computers, blanks are still being used at all. "There's no reason to have guns loaded with blanks or anything on set anymore. Should just be fully outlawed," tweeted Craig Zobel, an actor and director whose credits include Westworld and Mare of Easttown. "Prop guns are guns," TV writer David Slack tweeted. "Blanks have real gunpowder in them. They can injure or kill - and they have. If you're ever on a set where prop guns are treated without proper caution and safe handling, walk away. "No show or shot is worth risking people's lives," he added.
    • Gurbani tells parents not to impose on their children this way. Perhaps somebody knows the location or I'll see what I can find. It's either in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Varaan Bhai Gurdas Ji.  Once they know you are able to leave and have the backing of Gurmat perhaps you will find you have new bargaining power for the behaviors that are acceptable in your family. You don't have to be the man of your house just be a man of your house, who sticks to his guns, backs with Gurbani, and speaks the truth for Sarbat Da Bhala. You are not beholden to them. If they want that extra icing in life called multigenerational support of extended family they have to create an environment for all three of you to joyfully have families there. And earn your consent. It is a great thing to do, provide for the elders...when they respect you and help you create your own joyful life.  I am only now rekindling certain familial relationships after being brainwashed my whole life that I was a man at birth, responsible for my mother, and going to be her retirement. It's sick and deranged. I actually want to do all those things. They way people twist it into slavery is disgusting though, and I will have no part in one sided contracts honored only by me. A big turning point is when I realized they all expected that to be at the expense of me having my own life, family, etc. And that as a larger family none of them were worth anything. A bunch of shallow, nindaks, assimilated into white supremacy before my eyes. No thanks. Hypocritical. Lying. Scheeming.  Next.  Family is a team. It's everyone playing the same game, by the same rules, and working together or it's not. Either we all win or it's not working right.  Bro. You can move. You can take a sibling with you. The flamingos leave their babies do they not? Guru Nanak Dev Ji took off on foot did he not? You can stay too and lay it down bro. Calm, cool, calculated, chardikala and correct.  They get rude, bring in Sangat to witness and support you. It's your family business, be a pro. The parents don't listen and learn something off you go. If you respect your parents, respectfully tell them what they need to do to have the life they want. If it includes you. 
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