casteism Tackling caste issues

[Guest London]

Hello all ,I would like to tackle the issue of casteism and how we can realistically stop caste based discrimination.

Firstly, how does anyone know what caste they themselves are or the caste of anyone else. In the surname. We can never do away with these surnames BUT we can try disattach stigmatism attached to them e.g get rid of reservation, get rid of caste based gurdwaras, censor information on internet’s about castes, boycott and protest media (songs and movies etc) promoting caste pride and even take surname Singh/Kaur.

Secondly we must stop demonising, making fun of, or promoting caste (which I have seen plenty of on this forum). Even today I’ve seen some posts from a user called JKV LONDON blaming everything on Brahmins and brahmanical rule and I’m thinking it’s quite similar to the way people demonise Jews . Sure there were some bad Brahmins ,but there were good and we can’t categorise a whole community. There were bad Brahmins like gangu who was a snake and there were good Brahmins like Mati das and Sati das who gave their lives for the Sikh Dharam despite coming from the ‘fanatical corrupt cowardly Brahmin community ‘. Surely this shows that no community can be generalised and criticised and we shouldn’t take about certain communities in I’ll manners and we certainly shouldn’t be talking about caste at all because it is supposed to be irrelevant and banned in Sikh faith

Now to separate caste gurdwaras. This is a very hard issue because the Ravidassia community have become a separate religion with distinct temples BUT the best we can do is act with unity and not hatred and try to bring our communities back closer together and work to overcome our differences. We must also make sure ‘higher caste’ Sikhs don’t discriminate against so called ‘lower caste sikhs’ in terms of commitees, maybe we should even get rid of committees - they never had them in the old days back in India did they?All committees and elections in gurdwaras do is cause problems.

Now to caste promoting media. This is tough because it’s so wide spread. We must educate our people to BOYCOTT caste based artists and songs and movies and forget their caste identities as we are all the same people THERE IS NO GENETIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CASTES , THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE OCCUPATION OF OUR ANCESTORS -which is irrelevant anyway. WE MUST NOT BELIEVE PROPOGANDA ABOUT CASTE GENETICS.

There are more issues but I’m sure we can discuss them below. 

And sorry about this , I’m not trying to embarrass anyone but just educate. JKV LONDON and many others - please stop demonising and promoting certain castes.

Thank you all

WJKK

WJKF

[Guest Caste Sucks]

Well said! Any decent Hindu wanting to become Sikh would surely be put off by hate from peeps like:

JKV and acsap and S4NGH 

It's like as if these deliberately want to drive people away from Sikhi

As they know that most news Sikhs are going to come from a Hindu background.

Well done to these posters for doing the RSS Hindutva work in keeping the Sikh community small.

Instead of welcoming Hindu's who are here and ready to join the Sikh Panth.

People like the posters above would have a heart attack over shaheeds Bhai Mati Das Ji and Bhai Sati Das Ji

 

 

[Guest Kaur 2]

VJKK VJKF

On 2 June 2018 at 3:25 AM, Guest Caste Sucks said:

Well said! Any decent Hindu wanting to become Sikh would surely be put off by hate from peeps like:

JKV and acsap and S4NGH 

It's like as if these deliberately want to drive people away from Sikhi

As they know that most news Sikhs are going to come from a Hindu background.

Well done to these posters for doing the RSS Hindutva work in keeping the Sikh community small.

Instead of welcoming Hindu's who are here and ready to join the Sikh Panth.

People like the posters above would have a heart attack over shaheeds Bhai Mati Das Ji and Bhai Sati Das Ji

I really think that they don't do it on purpose. Chal ek vari galti ho jandi aa. I don't think we should be highlighting people as it will only lead to fights on the forum and then EVERYONE who visits this forum will be put off. We should be thinking about the bigger picture and not just the small short term consequences. To be honest, you are quite lucky that they haven't seen this thread otherwise this thread would have been up to five pages long lol. But keep in mind that even we are not perfect so we don't have any right to judge anyone else. Sure, you have raised a great point about how we can prevent Sikhi being all about caste but honestly, highlighting other people was not really necessary. Don't take offence by this post I was just explaining to you from a sisters point of view. We are all a family so we should be speaking nicely to each other.

VJKK VJKF

[Guest Christian Attack]

Case in point.

Christians attack Sikhs in Shillong and guess what JKV falsely labels it as a Hindu attack. Thereby making us look like liars and whipping up animosity between Hindu and Sikh for no reason and preventing Hindu's from joining the Sikh Panth through the negative people that hate Hindu's in a generalised way whip up

 

[jkvlondon]

4 hours ago, Guest Christian Attack said:

Case in point.

Christians attack Sikhs in Shillong and guess what JKV falsely labels it as a Hindu attack. Thereby making us look like liars and whipping up animosity between Hindu and Sikh for no reason and preventing Hindu's from joining the Sikh Panth through the negative people that hate Hindu's in a generalised way whip up

 

yeah I made the mistake because of the slogans being lifted from hinduvta playbook and corrected myself , they are tribals from the area who have beef with sikhs because they are seen to be succeeding and the sikhs  reported an attacker of women from the khasi group to the police the matter was not extended any further but that guy returned with a mob to get revenge. Basically any sikh who works hard and drags up his families fortunes from lower to high status through sheer effort is fair game to be attacked , bullied and driven off his /her property , that has happened to thousands in Rajasthan and Gujarat , Happened to Gurdwara Dongmar , happened in Sikkim gurdwara where Guru Nanak Dev ji's footprints are embedded on a rock , they literally turfed out Guru ji , this is after the sikhs have been developing the site to allow for car parking and yatris' quarters . Basically everyone sees us as easy targets to kick out once we've done the hard work .

 

On 6/1/2018 at 7:40 PM, Guest London said:

Hello all ,I would like to tackle the issue of casteism and how we can realistically stop caste based discrimination.

Firstly, how does anyone know what caste they themselves are or the caste of anyone else. In the surname. We can never do away with these surnames BUT we can try disattach stigmatism attached to them e.g get rid of reservation, get rid of caste based gurdwaras, censor information on internet’s about castes, boycott and protest media (songs and movies etc) promoting caste pride and even take surname Singh/Kaur.

Secondly we must stop demonising, making fun of, or promoting caste (which I have seen plenty of on this forum). Even today I’ve seen some posts from a user called JKV LONDON blaming everything on Brahmins and brahmanical rule and I’m thinking it’s quite similar to the way people demonise Jews . Sure there were some bad Brahmins ,but there were good and we can’t categorise a whole community. There were bad Brahmins like gangu who was a snake and there were good Brahmins like Mati das and Sati das who gave their lives for the Sikh Dharam despite coming from the ‘fanatical corrupt cowardly Brahmin community ‘. Surely this shows that no community can be generalised and criticised and we shouldn’t take about certain communities in I’ll manners and we certainly shouldn’t be talking about caste at all because it is supposed to be irrelevant and banned in Sikh faith

Now to separate caste gurdwaras. This is a very hard issue because the Ravidassia community have become a separate religion with distinct temples BUT the best we can do is act with unity and not hatred and try to bring our communities back closer together and work to overcome our differences. We must also make sure ‘higher caste’ Sikhs don’t discriminate against so called ‘lower caste sikhs’ in terms of commitees, maybe we should even get rid of committees - they never had them in the old days back in India did they?All committees and elections in gurdwaras do is cause problems.

Now to caste promoting media. This is tough because it’s so wide spread. We must educate our people to BOYCOTT caste based artists and songs and movies and forget their caste identities as we are all the same people THERE IS NO GENETIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CASTES , THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE OCCUPATION OF OUR ANCESTORS -which is irrelevant anyway. WE MUST NOT BELIEVE PROPOGANDA ABOUT CASTE GENETICS.

There are more issues but I’m sure we can discuss them below. 

And sorry about this , I’m not trying to embarrass anyone but just educate. JKV LONDON and many others - please stop demonising and promoting certain castes.

Thank you all

WJKK

WJKF

1 the people I have a problem with are the ones who abuse their position and power to incite hatred, violence  so yes all the crooks involved in politics are fair game, and those fake <banned word filter activated> saffron robed goondey who spout nonsense such as commit sin of killing /raping against targets they have selected which is anyone who is not one of them which thankfully is the majority

2. I have also clarified just who I don't have a problem with too -people who can see humans only not bloody labels

3. Actually Bhai Mati Das and brothers were born to Sikh of Guru Har Gobind not a brahmin per se since their father had rejected Manusmitri by becoming sikhs

 

[BhForce]

On 6/2/2018 at 1:10 AM, Guest London said:

Hello all ,I would like to tackle the issue of casteism

Great.

On 6/2/2018 at 1:10 AM, Guest London said:

get rid of reservation

Don't necessarily agree with this. I don't necessarily disagree, either. I'm just saying it's possible to have a range of opinions on this issue, because it's intended to give a chance to backward people.

On 6/2/2018 at 1:10 AM, Guest London said:

get rid of caste based gurdwaras

Definitely. Now, in a given locality, such as Delhi, there may a preponderance of a certain caste of Sikhs. But it doesn't say "KHATRI GURDWARA" on a big sign board on the front. Neither should it.

The castes that have caste-based gurdwaras need to tell their own committees to remove the signs, and also remove the caste-based restrictions in the gurdwara bylaws. I'm amazed that people are continuing to have explicit caste-based restrictions in the gurdwara bylaws. Don't they violate discrimination laws? I mean, would an all white or all black church be allowed?

(I'm not talking about "a church where 99% of the attendants are white". I'm talking about it saying in the bylaws that no non-whites may run for office.)

 

[Guest justajatt]

There's nothing wrong with tribal and clan surnames. These exist in ALL CIVILAIZATIONS around the world. 

Problem is deeply misunderstood. It's the DISCRIMINATION and PREJUDICE towards other castes that is the problem. 

I repeat it is the DISCRIMINATION and PREJUDICE towards other castes that is the problem. 

This will not be resolved by abolishing CASTE.

CASTE is identity. Identity of ancestor lineage and sometimes culture, clan linage, clan trades,...family heritage.

CASTE SYSTEM which is about mixing KARMA and outcome of future caste in future birth is the DISCRIMINATING problem. This System, which SIKHS DO NOT FOLLOW is the problem.  

SIkhs and gurbani follow system  of Chaurasi lakh joon cycle if ONE does not earn the wealth(dhann) of NAAM. 

The place where one has birth to live out their play of previous KARMA, or the family, the status, the wealth and all the other situations that place the person where they are and who they interact with, as well as the circumstances..>>are  ALL ABOUT KARMA.

 

BTW. if anyone wants to lay into me for using my jatt identity; then be my guest. 

1)  I married someone whose family lineage was the Chamaar trade.  

2) She was groomed and raped by <banned word filter activated>.  I dealt with the group of <banned word filter activated> and did my time. Then against everyone's wishes,  I married her to preserve her honor and dignity. This was the least that I could sacrifice as a sikh. It was also the beginning of the path that led both of us to find our selves and the bhagtee marg of sikhi. We are both dedicated abyasee's and couldn't have made better choices.

 

[jkvlondon]

7 hours ago, BhForce said:

Great.

Don't necessarily agree with this. I don't necessarily disagree, either. I'm just saying it's possible to have a range of opinions on this issue, because it's intended to give a chance to backward people.

Definitely. Now, in a given locality, such as Delhi, there may a preponderance of a certain caste of Sikhs. But it doesn't say "KHATRI GURDWARA" on a big sign board on the front. Neither should it.

The castes that have caste-based gurdwaras need to tell their own committees to remove the signs, and also remove the caste-based restrictions in the gurdwara bylaws. I'm amazed that people are continuing to have explicit caste-based restrictions in the gurdwara bylaws. Don't they violate discrimination laws? I mean, would an all white or all black church be allowed?

(I'm not talking about "a church where 99% of the attendants are white". I'm talking about it saying in the bylaws that no non-whites may run for office.)

 

I agree  that's why there are two gurdwarey in woolwich the Ramgharia gurdwara which was the original but from what I understood the rules were discriminatory against others so another gurdwara was built . I remember a time when all sikhs used to go to Ramgharia gurdwara and that's where I learnt about concept of sewa as a kid . From what I have seen both gurdwara have had attacks on them so being split up has weakened the protections for both . This is probably true in all caste based gurdwarey being built in punjab's villages now by building so many seperate smaller places there is not enough sangat and sharing of sewa/protection/security that beadbhi is easier to commit of Guru ji . If everyone had equal stake in seeing GuruGhar secure and manned well our Gurdwarey would have better security and also it would be easier to inform, help sangat with health, parchaar drives

[puzzled]

Most Sikhs have got nothing against Hindus! us Sikhs and Hindus have had a beautiful brotherly relationship throughout the centuries. Yes there have been a few Hindus in history who have betrayed us, but that was mostly out of greed, like the hill rajas who sided with the mughals or gangu etc these Hindus did what they did for extra £££  and a pat on the back from their Mughal masters. The mass common Hindus have remained kind to us. In fact Sikhs and Hindus have been more close than any other two religions ever have. If there is one religion which has never threatened Hindus then that is Sikhs. Mughal muslims and the Christian British Empire tried to completely destroy Hindus and Hindu culture, the Sikh empire on the other hand embraced Hindus and gave them high ranking positions but then obviously power and greed got to their heads and they betrayed Sikhs for a bit of cash and land.  

Lets not confuse corrupt politicians and extremist Hindu parties with you're common Hindu. Remember Jagdish tytler is actually a christian not a hindu. 

[Guest DesiJatt]

Just join khalsa and caste will go away itself.