I wish that in the past Sikh British Prisoners 1849 - 1947 were sent to Australia.

[Gagan1995 297]

        This way, Australia would've become Sarkar E Khalsa instead of Australia as the british imperialism ended in the late 1900's . That huge continent would've been the new Khalsa country.And we wouldn't have had bloodshed as the west Punjabi Sikhs would've fled to the new Sikh country and today New Panjab would've been a global power . Day dreaming about what if's is pretty depressing. 

[MahadrasSingh 136]

Tell me about it. Daily I think up how we could take rule through a variety of situations. For example being elected to some other nation or even india, carving up some land if india goes to war with china/pakistan, india itself just collapses into anarchy, we just siddi wage a war against india or take pakistan somehow. However we should focus more on our bani and let Guru Sahib give us the answer when the time comes. 

[GareebSikh1699 100]

Guys far be it from me to spoil the fantasy dreams party but ...

... with all due respect ... instead of fantasising uselessly

... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we:

1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality

2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol

3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children

http://www.shdf.org/

4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs

5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

 

[acsap 288]

36 minutes ago, GareebSikh1699 said:

Guys far be it from me to spoil the fantasy dreams party but ...

... with all due respect ... instead of fantasising uselessly

... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we:

1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality

2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol

3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children

http://www.shdf.org/

4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs

5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

 

I agree, presently there is no easy way to create our own country, but that should be the only goal. 

What you are mentioning are just some of the symptoms not the disease! Did you ever think why certain communities have drug issues and other social problems (e.g., black and native American community). Main reason is that they have nothing to be proud of and they don't see any future. 

Similarly, at present, Sikhs are not proud and don't see any future. Tell me what will you do if your Sikhs sisters have been raped and brother and sisters been killed, and the killers are roaming free and they tell Sikhs not to even stand up (in other words, they are kicking our turbans)

Put yourself in those shoes, then only thing left is denial, which can only achieved by drugs! 

Unless we get justice, and get our turbans back, the issues you are mentioning are not going away!

[GareebSikh1699 100]

1 hour ago, acsap said:

I agree, presently there is no easy way to create our own country, but that should be the only goal. 

Brother can you educate me on how exactly you propose to achieve that realistically in the short term? To put the scale of the task into context, Sikhs are 1.6% of the population in Canada and 1.6% of the population in India. Now please educate me (feel free to set up a separate thread) on how hypothetically you (or we) can even get Surrey BC out of Ottawa's grasp as opposed to east Punjab out of terrorist Delhi's control given 1984? 

What you are mentioning are just some of the symptoms not the disease!

Educate me on how you propose to fix the disease so I can learn.

Did you ever think why certain communities have drug issues and other social problems (e.g., black and native American community). Main reason is that they have nothing to be proud of and they don't see any future. 

Sikhi teaches us that Africans and indigenous people globally have everything to be proud of but no doubt anti-Sikh pro-genocide forces from Delhi and Washington think the opposite.

Similarly, at present, Sikhs are not proud and don't see any future.

The future is ours.

Guru Sahib said Raj Karega Khalsa globally via Halemi Raj.

Tell me what will you do if your Sikhs sisters have been raped and brother and sisters been killed, and the killers are roaming free and they tell Sikhs not to even stand up (in other words, they are kicking our turbans)

We have two options. On the one hand we can cry about it and say that we are ghulam and take drugs. On the other hand we can tell ourselves that Sikhs can never be ghulam and work bit by bit stage by stage step by step to rebuild our Panth from the grass roots up. We can do it. Puratan Sikhs never ever allowed themselves to be called ghulam or even think of themselves as ghulam. Because we are Sikhs and no one can stop us if we think strategically about how we defeat our enemies. I have said what we need to do as a start. You are welcome to educate me on your strategy if you differ on what our initial objectives should be.

Put yourself in those shoes, then only thing left is denial, which can only achieved by drugs! 

Not at all. Sikhs never turned to drugs in such numbers prior to terrorist Indira Gandhi attacking Sikhs. The Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs was 20 times worse in the percentage of Sikhs killed yet nobody turned to drugs in its aftermath. In fact by 1977 (30 years after the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs) most Sikhs had pretty much forgotten about it. So denial is not an option when Hindutva forces are hell-bent upon the eradication of Sikhs. We have to fight back (but do so smartly by educating, uniting and helping our own people and growing Sikh numbers throughout India and the World to where they should be - at least 100 million strong in this century).

Unless we get justice, and get our turbans back, the issues you are mentioning are not going away!

Terrorists will never give innocents justice. Only Sikhs ourselves can help and heal and rebuild our community. Only by reaching out and encouraging more and more Hindu's to become Sikh like Bhai Mehtab Singh of this forum did can we hope to demographically fight back against Sikhs becoming a minority in east Punjab. Instead we should target a long term Sikh majority throughout India as a pre-cursor to that happening globally. As only Sarbat da Bhalla can heal the world and the pro-Genocide and pro-terrorism ideologies of Delhi, Mecca, Rome, Washington and Peking clearly cannot!

 

[acsap 288]

"Educate me on how you propose to fix the disease so I can learn".

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, you have very good intentions, and I can respect that. Also, I am not doing anything constructive either. 

You mention that more Sikhs were killed during partition, but Sikhs took revenge/justice, we were able to keep our turbans. Similarly, in all other genocides, Sikhs fought back, and we have something to be proud of. Sikhs were very small in numbers even then, but that didn't stop Sikhs from dying for Justice (think about  Garja Singh). There was a time when Muslims (some Muslims) said that there is no Sikh left in Punjab, but Sikhs fought back and were able to form Khalsa Raj. Sikhs in those times didn't think how small their percent is compare to the majority. 

There is only one answer: as mentioned by Guruji and Sant ji; when there is no other way to get justice then the use of sword is the most pious thing to do. 

Answer: Either we get the justice or we die fighting for Justice. 

[GareebSikh1699 100]

51 minutes ago, acsap said:

"Educate me on how you propose to fix the disease so I can learn".

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, you have very good intentions, and I can respect that.

Brother we are on the same page. You feel pain of thousands of Sikh victims more than certain other posters on this site (who promote anti-Sikh beliefs and anti-Sikh individuals). So its all good if we slightly disagree about something. All we have to do is ensure is that we are united about where it matters - to uplift our Qaum with seva and cash.

Also, I am not doing anything constructive either. 

No, don't feel like that brother. You care about the suffering members of our Qaum and that is a great start upon which we can build an avalanche to overcome our enemies. I tell you what - PM me with what your donation is to www.shdf.org and I will match you on it. And let everybody on this thread work hard to raise money in the real world rather than sitting fantasising. Work, education and financial investment into real estate and stocks are vital if we want to help uplift fellow Sikhs and other poor people who are tomorrow's Sikhs. Only Sarbat da Bhalla and Sikhi can heal the whole world. But we have to be strong ourselves and grow our numbers in order to help others better.

You mention that more Sikhs were killed during partition, but Sikhs took revenge/justice, we were able to keep our turbans.

Brother - Sikhs never took justice. The killers of Sikhs mostly escaped scot free to lives of luxury in Pakistan. Only in some cases in east Punjab were those intent upon killing Sikhs killed before they could kill more Sikhs like how they had planned.

Similarly, in all other genocides, Sikhs fought back, and we have something to be proud of.

I agree. And I think the best way we can fight back against the current silent Genocide of Sikhs is by addressing the five points above and focussing on growing Sikh numbers in Punjab, throughout India and in the diaspora especially with poor Africans, poor indigenous communities and poor Indians.

Sikhs were very small in numbers even then, but that didn't stop Sikhs from dying for Justice (think about  Garja Singh).

Agreed. Sikhs were down to a few thousands after the Genocides back then but we are tens of millions strong now. Every Sikh in the diaspora has the ability to pump $2,600 every year ($50 a week or $7 a day) into helping poor Sikhs get educated, get health treatment, get rehab, save a girl child's life and ensure that we only have one Gurdwara in each pind in Punjab and town in the West.

There was a time when Muslims (some Muslims) said that there is no Sikh left in Punjab, but Sikhs fought back and were able to form Khalsa Raj. Sikhs in those times didn't think how small their percent is compare to the majority. 

That is true. But in the short term I believe it is highly unrealistic for a small minority such as ourselves which has been so viscously defeated on all social indicators (points 1 to 5) to achieve the overthrow of terrorism that Sant Ji themselves and the Kharku generation could not achieve. We need to regroup, rebuild, grow our numbers and make our terrorist opponents the minority and I am convinced we can do that as Sikhi is the 100% truth.

There is only one answer: as mentioned by Guruji and Sant ji; when there is no other way to get justice then the use of sword is the most pious thing to do. 

This is where I disagree with you. If you think you can achieve something with the sword that Sant Ji and the Kharku generation could not then respectfully I don't feel you can. You could go to India tomorrow and fight with a sword against the latest weaponary supplied to Delhi by the USA, Russia, UK, France, Canada. Even China and Pakistan did not care about how many Sikhs were killed in the Congress Genocide of Sikhs as they are more focussed on sucking up and building trade with Modi. On the other hand you can work hard in north America and pump in thousands and thousands of dollars over the rest of your life to grow Sikh numbers, to uplift poor Sikhs and build up an educated, healthy, literate and united 100 million plus strong community in this century. Think about which option can obliterate the terrorists in Delhi and Islamabad who jointly supply drugs to our youth.

Answer: Either we get the justice or we die fighting for Justice.

Fighting with bows and arrows against laser guided precision missiles when you are outnumbered vastly is a recipe for disaster. When Baba Deep Singh Ji fought on the battlefield despite lesser numbers Sikhs and Mughals broadly at least used the same shastar. Same thing in 1947. Yes Sikhs were eradicated where the numbers were overwhelming but where we have equal weaponary to equal numbers of opponents Sikhs have never lost and never will. But when you are outnumbered and outgunned in terms of weaponary level then the outcome is predictable and anybody thinking of flying to India to do just that should take a step back and consider what we (you and me and Gagan in Cali and Mahadras Singh in MB) can achieve just as four Sikhs by playing our part towards uplifting millions of poor Sikhs, millions of poor Hindu's and millions of poor Africans and millions of poor indigenous people into tomorrow's unstoppable Sikh Panth. I know what we can achieve as Sikhs if we are united about our objectives (and are sensible about what those objectives can realistically be short term). 

 

[JSinghnz 1,086]

13 hours ago, acsap said:

"Educate me on how you propose to fix the disease so I can learn".

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, you have very good intentions, and I can respect that. Also, I am not doing anything constructive either. 

You mention that more Sikhs were killed during partition, but Sikhs took revenge/justice, we were able to keep our turbans. Similarly, in all other genocides, Sikhs fought back, and we have something to be proud of. Sikhs were very small in numbers even then, but that didn't stop Sikhs from dying for Justice (think about  Garja Singh). There was a time when Muslims (some Muslims) said that there is no Sikh left in Punjab, but Sikhs fought back and were able to form Khalsa Raj. Sikhs in those times didn't think how small their percent is compare to the majority. 

There is only one answer: as mentioned by Guruji and Sant ji; when there is no other way to get justice then the use of sword is the most pious thing to do. 

Answer: Either we get the justice or we die fighting for Justice. 

Did they fight the pommies to get their raj back?

[proactive 1,795]

On July 18, 2018 at 5:30 AM, GareebSikh1699 said:

Guys far be it from me to spoil the fantasy dreams party but ...

... with all due respect ... instead of fantasising uselessly

... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we:

1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality

2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol

3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children

http://www.shdf.org/

4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs

5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

 

No thing is ever lost if there exists the potential to recreate it. Rather than hark back to what could have been why not work for what can be? We have the power to change the present to make a better future but we have no power to change the past to make a better present.  If we lost Khalsa Raj in 1849 then why do we not work to create another Khalsa raj in the future. The above are some of the things we can concentrate on so that the Khalsa Raj becomes more and not less likely. 

Our people have so much potential that if Khalsa Raj was to be created in just the present Punjab today then within the next 15-20 years it would become a first world country and leave India far behind. All our people need is a good government and a safe environment and there is nothing that we cannot achieve. 

The first step is to defeat the cynicism that we have allowed to develop in ourselves, the responses of 'we can't even run a Gurdwara let alone a country' that invariably gushes forth when confronted by the possibility of being free and sovereign. Once that cynicism is passed then the possibilities are endless. 

[GareebSikh1699 100]

2 hours ago, proactive said:

No thing is ever lost if there exists the potential to recreate it.

I agree so long as we truly believe in Sikhi we can never be ghulam and never be defeated permanently.

Rather than hark back to what could have been why not work for what can be?

I agree with you. We need to focus on the challenges in front of us rather than harking back to the past.

We have the power to change the present to make a better future but we have no power to change the past to make a better present.

Exactly - well said.

If we lost Khalsa Raj in 1849 then why do we not work to create another Khalsa raj in the future.

It is our duty to create Khalsa Raj globally in the long term for all the billions of suffering innocents.

But we need to take one step at a time and address basics before we start imagining that tomorrow.

The above are some of the things we can concentrate on so that the Khalsa Raj becomes more and not less likely. 

Exactly - without addressing points 1 to 5 as simple basics then loftier objectives become pipe dreams.

Our people have so much potential that if Khalsa Raj was to be created in just the present Punjab today then within the next 15-20 years it would become a first world country and leave India far behind.

All our people need is a good government and a safe environment and there is nothing that we cannot achieve.

Exactly. Sikhs are unstoppable if we are united and dedicated. History proves that time and time again.

We can be a 100 million plus strong community in this century if we get our act together as a precursor to becoming the majority faith throughout India and eventually global Khalsa Raj (Halemi Raj of justice and equality for all). But in the short term we need to recognise the fact that Sikhs are already a minority in Doaba and are on track to become a minority within east Punjab overall by either the census of 2021 or 2031 if we do nothing to stop the proliferation of Hindutva sponsored apartheid mandirs (as a means of fracturing and disuniting the erstwhile united Sikh Sangat). The first people we need to pick up the sword against are the drug dealers who enrich their masters in Delhi and Islamabad.

The first step is to defeat the cynicism that we have allowed to develop in ourselves, the responses of 'we can't even run a Gurdwara let alone a country' that invariably gushes forth when confronted by the possibility of being free and sovereign. Once that cynicism is passed then the possibilities are endless. 

Exactly. That type of attitude is pathetic as it de facto implies that terrorist Hindu and Muslim leaders who have given the world nothing but their glorious legacy of the caste system, rape, slavery, genocide and terrorism are genetically pre-disposed to better governance!

There is no stopping the future potential of the Sikh Panth if we address points 1 to 5 as our initial priority!

... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we:

1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality

2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol

3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children

http://www.shdf.org/

4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs

5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

[Guest GuestSingh]

On 7/18/2018 at 5:30 AM, GareebSikh1699 said:

Guys far be it from me to spoil the fantasy dreams party but ...

... with all due respect ... instead of fantasising uselessly

... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we:

1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality

2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol

3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children

http://www.shdf.org/

4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs

5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

 

Points 2, 4 and 5 can be achieved through just point 3 which is the key imo.

Almost all Sikhs today (inc. myself) all over the world are nowhere near as loving, devoted and strong in their faith and keeping discipline as the great ones in the past but what we can do is adapt and focus on education. By exposing the poor youth/elders to eastern and western knowledge, their thinking will change and they will see a purpose in life i.e. a job to provide for their family.

This could reduce or even avoid use of drugs and alcohol....and when the uneducated/misinformed see females in professional jobs, they would see they have worth and start to think differently.

With land so low in groundwater and already infected with pollutants and cancerous toxins/chemicals, there must be investment in farming/infrastructure otherwise Panjab could soon become the land of no rivers. Water is the source of life - without it, what can exist?

There are a couple of organic farming initiatives in Panjab and throughout the country but more could be made. By growing good vegetables/fruit in season along with nuts/seeds and  herbs/spices, they would have sustenance to stay alive but natural medicine to become stronger and reduce dependency on expensive treatment. Food is medicine. That could reduce point 5.

Now please can we just focus on helping on our own first. You say we shouldn't fantatise uselessly but aren't you doing that when saying sarbat da bhalla,  Sikhi for billions etc. when many of those billions do not give a damn about us? None whatsoever. Many living in the west aren't living with the same pain as those in poverty so why see them as equal? Put our people who are suffering and in need first. This goes for anyone, especially those in the west who don't even bother to practice and keep Sikhi - they look silly and can't be taken seriously in my eyes. Start to have a bit of love for Sikhi then say something.

If this was ever achieved then point 1 could become the main focus for Sikhs....

Feel we need to regroup and become stronger as a community rather than try to tackle all our problems at once and become overwhelmed, confused and just give up.

[GareebSikh1699 100]

On 7/20/2018 at 5:18 AM, GuestSingh said:

Points 2, 4 and 5 can be achieved through just point 3 which is the key imo.

I totally agree with you for sure and most of what you say above.

By exposing the poor youth/elders to eastern and western knowledge, their thinking will change and they will see a purpose in life i.e. a job to provide for their family.

Exactly kirat karna is a fundamental basic of Sikhi instead of drinking alcohol or doing drugs as songs encourage etc

This could reduce or even avoid use of drugs and alcohol....and when the uneducated/misinformed see females in professional jobs, they would see they have worth and start to think differently.

Ironically, females are already outperforming males at higher education levels with many hardworking young Sikh females having gotten pukkeh in Canada, Australia and New Zealand through hard work.

As for the wasters they have to be put to work for community seva by local Panj Piare in every pind. If the British could rule India with a few men but we cannot uplift the state of our own people then what we are saying that Panj Piare don't exist in all the pinds where these problems are most rampant.

With land so low in groundwater and already infected with pollutants and cancerous toxins/chemicals, there must be investment in farming/infrastructure otherwise Panjab could soon become the land of no rivers. Water is the source of life - without it, what can exist?

And the thing is the scientists at Punjab Agricultural University etc know the solutions but are prevented from implementing them from those whom it suits to see the Sikh Qaum destroyed (Hindutva RSS forces).

There are a couple of organic farming initiatives in Panjab and throughout the country but more could be made. By growing good vegetables/fruit in season along with nuts/seeds and  herbs/spices, they would have sustenance to stay alive but natural medicine to become stronger and reduce dependency on expensive treatment. Food is medicine. That could reduce point 5.

Exactly + a sister here had some great ideas relating to this too.

Now please can we just focus on helping on our own first.

We absolutely have to. If we are not strong ourselves we cannot help others. Given the last 34 years of temporary defeat we have suffered we need to focus on undoing the last 34years of infinite damage done and focus on the younger generations coming up being educated and strong and knowledgeable about Sikhi.

You say we shouldn't fantatise uselessly but aren't you doing that when saying sarbat da bhalla

No - Sarbat da Bhala is the fundamental motto and one of the guiding principles of Sikhi. The Khalsa Panth has to represent for all the oppressed and the weak who have no one to help them. Of course non-Amritdhari Sikhs are not bound by this restriction from Panj Piare.

Sikhi for billions etc.

This has got to be the very long term aim. If we can grow the Sikh Panth to even 100million strong in this century that would be great progress compared to where we have sunk today.

In the next 3years we could find ourselves a minority in east Punjab so we can forget thinking about billions in the short term. But the reality is that in the internet age everyone will have access to information.

And if billions follow religions such as Christianity and Islam which condone and allow slavery to be perpetrated against fellow human beings then it is clear that Sikhi needs to supplant Christianity, Islam and Hinduism as the main religion to help bring equality and justice to all humanity.

when many of those billions do not give a damn about us?

No, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that we focus our efforts on Bengali speakers who illegally infiltrated Myanmar in the last 100 years or assisting Sunni supporters of Islamic State in Syria.

But the whole reason Guru Sahib created the Khalsa Panth was to give shelter to the oppressed and weak who have no one to help them. And for those who have no support in Punjab primarily but also throughout the poorest parts of India and Africa where new Sikhs will most likely arise from we have to play our part bearing in mind that if we are weak ourselves we cannot help others effectively.

500 years after Guru Nanak's travels to spread the word of Sikhi beyond the Punjabi people we as Sikhs have miserably failed to spread the message whilst crooked pastors and imams have fraudulently converted millions that they secretly despise in the last 70 years. We have to realise that 66% of Punjabi's are Muslims so focussing on Punjabi's to be the new source of Sikhs is not the best approach.

Sikhi needs to be entrusted to those who can appreciate it rather than those who would rather shoot up smack, discriminate on the basis of jaath-paath, divide our Gurughars or abort their daughter.

Many living in the west aren't living with the same pain as those in poverty so why see them as equal? Put our people who are suffering and in need first.

Agreed we don't need to focus on doing seva for Europeans or Muslims who between them control most of the world's economic and oil wealth. There are enough problems in east Punjab for us to address first.

But given that 80% of our Panj Piare came from Gujarat, Karnataka, Orissa, Uttar Pardesh we cannot ignore seva and parchar in the poorest parts of India and Africa.

As currently only 3 people in every 1,000 on the planet are Sikh and that has to change if the Khalsa Panth is to live up to its true remit of seva for Sarbat da Bhala globally. 

And those of us in Canada and the States 100% need to play our part to help First Nations and African American brothers and sisters in particular be assisted by the Truth which is Sikhi via volunteer work (when we are not doing seva in Punjab).

Feel we need to regroup and become stronger as a community rather than try to tackle all our problems at once and become overwhelmed, confused and just give up.

Agreed. We need to rebuild, regroup and make our Panth stronger step by step. Focussing on shouting slogans once a year or building statues (of those that opposed such display) or pointless yatra's to Pakistan whilst our gareeb Sikh brethren sink deeper into the mire each year since 1984 is simply not good enough.

Anybody travelling to Pakistan on luxury tours to enrich the Pakistani Government - whilst poor Sikhs cannot be funded to get cancer treatment should be made to feel ashamed of themself.

Those sehajdhari's sitting in New York busy getting kesdhari youth in Punjab locked up in jail for sedition charges relating to pie in the sky referendums need to take a look at the census projections which show us as Sikhs on track to become a minority in Punjab by either the 2021 census or the 2031 census.

Before we can think of bigger steps we must ensure that there is only one united Gurdwara in each pind and locality in the West.

100% literacy amongst tomorrow's Sikh youth will pay us better dividends than stupid statues or ridiculous multi million expenditures on new gold plated Gurdwara's that we don't need.

 

[Guest GuestSingh]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:05 AM, GareebSikh1699 said:

We absolutely have to. If we are not strong ourselves we cannot help others. Given the last 34 years of temporary defeat we have suffered we need to focus on undoing the last 34years of infinite damage done and focus on the younger generations coming up being educated and strong and knowledgeable about Sikhi.

That's the problem - most of us aren't even that strong even if we try to keep up appearances and impress.

Fact is a lot of youth find Sikhi boring, they have no appetite for Waheguru  - even 'Amritdhari' ones, especially the youth, will keep making mistakes and keep asking for forgiveness. Amrit is just a game to them because they're not yet mentally mature to live such a lifestyle.

No - Sarbat da Bhala is the fundamental motto and one of the guiding principles of Sikhi. The Khalsa Panth has to represent for all the oppressed and the weak who have no one to help them. Of course non-Amritdhari Sikhs are not bound by this restriction from Panj Piare.

The people on western streets that some of the community like to help so much may be weak but they aren't being oppressed and they do have someone to help them - the welfare state.

If they don't want to take jobs that require no qualifications/experience because they think its beneath them and just wait for free food, that's up to them.

This has got to be the very long term aim. If we can grow the Sikh Panth to even 100million strong in this century that would be great progress compared to where we have sunk today.

In the next 3years we could find ourselves a minority in east Punjab so we can forget thinking about billions in the short term. But the reality is that in the internet age everyone will have access to information.

And if billions follow religions such as Christianity and Islam which condone and allow slavery to be perpetrated against fellow human beings then it is clear that Sikhi needs to supplant Christianity, Islam and Hinduism as the main religion to help bring equality and justice to all humanity.

You broke up my sentence and re-posted it out of context to suit your posts.

Anyway, the chitteh like to say 'charity starts at home'.....well for wishy-washy 'Sikhs', charity starts abroad/internationally only but may finish at home when there is little to nothing left for both sides.

The most obvious and logical action is to save Panjab first then focus on spreading to other states - the martyrs of 1984 didn't shed blood in Panjab for the idea of Khalistan to only ever remain a idea. See Baba Manochahal's letter.....

As we know, a seed doesn't grow from the leaves but from the roots....

No, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that we focus our efforts on Bengali speakers who illegally infiltrated Myanmar in the last 100 years or assisting Sunni supporters of Islamic State in Syria.

But the whole reason Guru Sahib created the Khalsa Panth was to give shelter to the oppressed and weak who have no one to help them. And for those who have no support in Punjab primarily but also throughout the poorest parts of India and Africa where new Sikhs will most likely arise from we have to play our part bearing in mind that if we are weak ourselves we cannot help others effectively.

500 years after Guru Nanak's travels to spread the word of Sikhi beyond the Punjabi people we as Sikhs have miserably failed to spread the message whilst crooked pastors and imams have fraudulently converted millions that they secretly despise in the last 70 years. We have to realise that 66% of Punjabi's are Muslims so focussing on Punjabi's to be the new source of Sikhs is not the best approach.

Sikhi needs to be entrusted to those who can appreciate it rather than those who would rather shoot up smack, discriminate on the basis of jaath-paath, divide our Gurughars or abort their daughter.

Yes, what they are doing is wrong and idiotic but so easy for us in our western comforts/distractions to judge these people when we haven't lived their lives, experiences, day-to-day suffering. If we did, how many of us would be same people or even still be here?

Panjab is the oldest source of Sikhs - you don't need a fool like myself to tell you the remains of Sikh history most and easily accessible to Sikhs remains in Panjab therefore it should be a priority for Sikhs, unless the land that our Gurus and martyrs walked on is not seen to have any value by certain people....

Like a dying plant, it just needs nourishment to grow again... with some natural pesticide to kill the enemies and keep them away.

Agreed we don't need to focus on doing seva for Europeans or Muslims who between them control most of the world's economic and oil wealth. There are enough problems in east Punjab for us to address first.

Tell that to the Panjabis also mentioned above who go out of their way to serve their white masters in any way possible to appease and impress while making a mockery of themselves and the principles of Sikhi. Jokers.

My back will always be turned to the white devil and yeah that would make it easier for them to stab in the back again, along with the suleh, but yes, without a doubt, Panjab comes first.

But given that 80% of our Panj Piare came from Gujarat, Karnataka, Orissa, Uttar Pardesh we cannot ignore seva and parchar in the poorest parts of India and Africa.

Yes, spreading Sikhi throughout the states should continue to be the mission....

Agreed. We need to rebuild, regroup and make our Panth stronger step by step. Focussing on shouting slogans once a year or building statues (of those that opposed such display) or pointless yatra's to Pakistan whilst our gareeb Sikh brethren sink deeper into the mire each year since 1984 is simply not good enough.

Anybody travelling to Pakistan on luxury tours to enrich the Pakistani Government - whilst poor Sikhs cannot be funded to get cancer treatment should be made to feel ashamed of themself.

Those sehajdhari's sitting in New York busy getting kesdhari youth in Punjab locked up in jail for sedition charges relating to pie in the sky referendums need to take a look at the census projections which show us as Sikhs on track to become a minority in Punjab by either the 2021 census or the 2031 census.

Before we can think of bigger steps we must ensure that there is only one united Gurdwara in each pind and locality in the West.

100% literacy amongst tomorrow's Sikh youth will pay us better dividends than stupid statues or ridiculous multi million expenditures on new gold plated Gurdwara's that we don't need.

Agreed.