PEENEE SHARAAAAAAB!

[Nama Singh]

VJKK VJKF

A question...

As Sikhs, we shouldnt consume alcohol as it is an intoxicant right... however, is it the effects of alcohol that is bad for you or alochol full stop?

The reason why i ask this is that, i heard somewhere in the past, there were people who had so much control over their mind, that they were able to remain 100% sober even after consuming loads of alcohol. I found this quite amazing.

The question maybe still confusing but basically, if one was able to consume alcohol and remained unaffected by it, would it be allowed?

Of course i know that myself (who i can only speak for) is not at that level n probably never will be! Im probably talking about a VERY small microscopic %age of people... but interesting to find out opinions never the less.

[Mehtab Singh]

why do we need to drink anyways?

[Ksinghni]

I agree with Mehtab Singh Ji!

The purpose of drinking alochol is a lot to do with a person "unwinding" and Im pretty sure most people dont drink it because of the taste?? (I wouldnt know as Ive never tasted the stuff!)

Guroo Mahraaj has said that drinking alcohol is prohibited for many reasons and I think there really is no need for us to drink it anyway - even if it would not affect us!

[sskhalsa]

AMg 737

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sUhI mhlw 5 ]

soohee mehulaa 5

Soohee, Fifth Mehl:

aumikE hIau imln pRB qweI ]

oumakiou heeo milun prubh thaaee

An intense yearning to meet God has welled up in my heart.

Kojq cirE dyKau ipRA jweI ]

khojuth chariou dhaekho pria jaaee

I have gone out searching to find my Beloved Husband Lord.

sunq sdysro ipRA igRih syj ivCweI ]

sunuth sudhaesuro pria grihi saej vishaaee

[color=08

0088]Hearing news of my Beloved, I have laid out my bed in my home.[/color]

BRim BRim AwieE qau ndir n pweI ]1]

bhram bhram aaeiou tho nudhar n paaee

Wandering, wandering all around, I came, but I did not even see Him. ||1||

ikn ibiD hIAro DIrY inmwno ]

kin bidh heearo dheerai nimaano

How can this poor heart be comforted?

imlu swjn hau quJu kurbwno ]1] rhwau ]

mil saajun ho thujh kurubaano

Come and meet me, O Friend; I am a sacrifice to You. ||1||Pause||

eykw syj ivCI Dn kMqw ]

eaekaa saej vishee dhun kunthaa

One bed is spread out for the bride and her Husband Lord.

Dn sUqI ipru sd jwgMqw ]

dhun soothee pir sudh jaagunthaa

The bride is asleep, while her Husband Lord is always awake.

pIE mdro Dn mqvMqw ]

peeou mudhuro dhun muthuvunthaa

The bride is intoxicated, as if she has drunk wine.

Dn jwgY jy ipru bolµqw ]2]

dhun jaagai jae pir bolunthaa

The soul-bride only awakens when her Husband Lord calls to her. ||2||

BeI inrwsI bhuqu idn lwgy ]

bhee niraasee buhuth dhin laagae

She has lost hope - so many days have passed.

dys idsMqr mY sgly Jwgy ]

dhaes dhisunthur mai sugulae jhaagae

I have travelled through all the lands and the countries.

iKnu rhnu n pwvau ibnu pg pwgy ]

khin rehun n paavo bin pug paagae

I cannot survive, even for an instant, without the feet of my Beloved.

hoie ik®pwlu pRB imlh sBwgy ]3]

hoe kirupaal prubh mileh subhaagae

When God becomes Merciful, I become fortunate, and then I meet Him. ||3|

4;

BieE ik®pwlu sqsMig imlwieAw ]

bhaeiou kirupaal suthusung milaaeiaa

Becoming Merciful, He has united me with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation.

bUJI qpiq Grih ipru pwieAw ]

boojhee thupath ghurehi pir paaeiaa

The fire has been quenched, and I have found my Husband Lord within my own home.

sgl sIgwr huix muJih suhwieAw ]

sugul seegaar hun mujhehi suhaaeiaa

I am now adorned with all sorts of decorations.

khu nwnk guir Brmu cukwieAw ]4]

kuhu naanuk gur bhurum chukaaeiaa

Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt. ||4||

jh dyKw qh ipru hY BweI ]

jeh dhaekhaa theh pir hai bhaaee

Wherever I look, I see my Husband Lord there, O Siblings of Destiny.

Koil@E kpwtu qw mnu ThrweI ]1] rhwau dUjw ]5]

span>

kholou kupaatt thaa mun thehuraaee

When the door is opened, then the mind is restrained. ||1||Second Pause||5||

what need is there for physical alcohol? spiritual intoxication is the best available

[Nidhi]

The reason why i ask this is that, i heard somewhere in the past, there were people who had so much control over their mind, that they were able to remain 100% sober even after consuming loads of alcohol. I found this quite amazing.

The question maybe still confusing but basically, if one was able to consume alcohol and remained unaffected by it, would it be allowed?

Sangat ji, I assume that Aman virji is aware that as a Sikh u are not allowed to consume alcohol. To answer ur question...

Hehe... If that particular person does not get affected by loads of cunsumption of alcohol... then he is an ALCOHOLIC. So, he must have drinked a lot throughout his life, that he has now gotten used to drinking, therefore his body does not react upon that! That's the only thing I can tell u...

[Nidhi]

The reason why i ask this is that, i heard somewhere in the past, there were people who had so much control over their mind, that they were able to remain 100% sober even after consuming loads of alcohol. I found this quite amazing.

The question maybe still confusing but basically, if one was able to consume alcohol and remained unaffected by it, would it be allowed?

Sangat ji, I assume that Aman virji is aware that as a Sikh u are not allowed to consume alcohol. To answer ur question...

Hehe... If that particular person does not get affected by loads of cunsumption of alcohol... then he is an ALCOHOLIC. :wub: So, he must have drinked a lot throughout his life, that he has now gotten used to drinking, therefore his body does not react upon that! That's the only thing I can tell u...

Ps. How do I delete my post above??

[sher_panjabi]

I remember reading an article in a newspaper.

It was something on the lines of:

" I was offered a glass of alcohol. I said, "no thanks, I don't drink". "What will one drink do to you!? Come on, just one glass." I drank one glass. That day I was in control. Today I am an alcoholic. If only I had been strong enough to not drink alcohol the first time. Now I am the slave of this poison."

[sher_panjabi]

http://www.sikhism.com/teachingtheyouth/if...atherdrinks.htm

Written by Dr. Gurbaksh Singh

If Your Father Drinks

Drinking is considered a vice worldwide but still many adults drink. Children feel very embarrassed, ashamed, and sometimes even degraded if they find their father drinking alcohol and losing his self-control. They pity him but feel helpless. A few experiences with camp trainees, who did not approve drinking by their fathers, are worth sharing with the readers. This topic was included as the result of a very touching response by a young boy at a Montreal (Canada) Camp.

After I had told of the bad effects of drugs and alcohol use to a junior group, we discussed how young people could save themselves from drugs. One youth observed, “If adults and our parents do not drink, we will not get into that bad habit. They must stop drinking.” A girl asked, “Everybody knows that drugs and alcohol are bad for health, then why do they drink? Why can’t we tell them not to drink?”

This led us to discuss how to stop adults from drinking alcohol. The youth made many suggestions. One of them was to read Sikh Maryada to those who drink alcohol. It will teach them that the Sikh faith prohibits the use of drugs and alcohol. Many youth agreed with this suggestion.

Another youth asked, “Is there any specific hymn in the Guru Granth Sahib, which prohibits drinking?” The author recited and translated a few lines of the hymn:

QUOTE

ijqu pIqY Ksmu ivsrY drgh imlY sjwie ] jith peethai khusum visurai dhurugeh milai sujaae Why drink alcohol, which makes one forget the Lord and be punished in His court. (Guru Granth Sahib, p. 554) After listening to the translation of the hymn, a couple of them said, “Uncle, that is good. Write it on the board, we will copy it.” When the youth copied the hymn in their notebooks, I asked, “Do you think that adults will stop drinking after listening to this hymn?” Most of them responded, “Yes, they should.” However one boy, with frustration looming large on his face, started shaking his head. From his response, I read the message of his heart, “No way. It won’t work in the case of my father.” The class was over, I met the boy and asked him, “What is worrying you? Why did you shake your head like that?” His reply gave a chill through my spine. Tears formed in his eyes before he could speak. With a choked voice, which would have melted every heart, the boy spoke, “You may do anything, my father does not listen. My mother and my grandfather have told him many times but he ignores them. All our relatives have failed; how can he listen to the reading of this hymn by me?” I cannot put into words what went through my mind after hearing that. To console him, I told him, “All fathers and mothers love their children. They may not listen to their elders or their friends but they cannot ignore the request of their children. He will surely listen to you. I will also try to talk to him.” When I was talking to the boy, I knew I might not be able to see his father or talk to him but his pathetic condition made me say the above words. Quite often I remember the boy shaking his head in desperation, whenever I find some parents drinking with complete disregard to the feelings of their children. I know that he is not the only child being tortured emotionally by his father, there are thousands suffering like him helplessly. Maybe, the reading of this experience and two other incidents stated below, will touch the hearts of the Sikhs who drink. I pray that they give up this habit and rebuild their self-esteem. Further, I hope they will not demoralize their children any longer and destroy their lives. At another camp, a middle-age group (10 to 14 years) was told to write what a Sikh is required to do and what he is not permitted to do by his faith. Among the prohibitions, of course, all students stated that a Sikh does not take drugs, he does not drink or smoke. They were asked if someone in their family drinks, how will they tell him/her not to drink? Many answers were given and all were in the tone, “You should not drink, it is a bad habit of yours.” They were suggested to find a better way to say the same thing. By mutual discussions the following statement was finalized by the group. “If a child does something wrong, blame goes to the parents for not disciplining their child; if a Sikh drinks, it reflects disregard towards the Guru and it lowers the image of the community. A Sikh needs to avoid it.” Before concluding the discussion, the trainees were told not to argue with the drinking persons to justify their observations. They were suggested to leave them alone to think for themselves. The very first Sunday following the camp, a Sikh came to me as soon as the gurdwara function was over and the Sangat was moving out for the langar. He said , “I wish you to drink tea with us at our house.” I was still thinking of what answer to give when the young girl with him said, “Uncle, he is my father.” I remembered immediately that the girl was at the camp. I agreed to visit their house that very day after the langar. Even before the tea was served, the father proudly narrated what happened at his house the other day, when his daughter returned from the camp. “My friend and I were drinking when she entered the house. With her bag still on her shoulders, she uttered verbatim what you told her at the camp and immediately went to her room. We analyzed her statement and found that she was right. To restore her faith in us and to assure her that we love her, we both decided to give up the habit right away. We threw away the bottle and felt a great relief after doing that. I know Sikhs are prohibited from the use of alcohol but I drank just to build my false ego.” Similar good experiences have been reported from some other parents as well. However, one case backfired and that too needs to be told to the youth. A young boy argued with his father that drinking is bad and that he should not drink. One day when his father started drinking, the boy picked up his bottle and wanted to take it away to express his protest. The father became angry, gave a hard slap on his face and yelled, “Are you my father or am I yours? You must know how to behave.” The boy narrated this experience to the director of the camp who shared this sad incident with me. On the last day, when parents came to the camp to take their children home, I said in my farewell speech, “Respected parents, we take full responsibility for whatever the youth have learned at the camp. In case it does not agree with your beliefs or your daily practices, you should hold teachers and not your children responsible for it. We will personally apologize to you for anything taught to the youth if it is not endorsed by Gur bani or by the Panthic Reht Maryada. If punished for their disagreement with you, the children will lose faith in you and in our teachings at the camp.” Later, the director of the camp told the author that according to the feedback received by him, the message was very much appreciated by both the parents and the trainees. http://www.sikhism.com/teachingtheyouth/if...atherdrinks.htm

[TeeJay]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Alcohol is just as big a killer as most other (illegal) drugs out there (can't think of the death figures off the top of my head). It is esy to get addicted to it, you don't have to drink to excess to be addicted. You can live a 'normal' life without even realising you have an addiction - and yet it remains legal and socially accepted. This is one of the reasons a Gursikh does not go near such an evil.

As for the orginal question, well where did veer AmaN hear that people were able to consume alcohol and remain 100% sober? Is the source reliable? Remember, our bodies are different, different people react differently to different levels of alcohol in their system. Secondly, what would you define as 100% sober? How could one ever prove that someone who has consumed alcohol is as sober as they were before? Alcohol kills brain cells, why would anyone want to do that?

I think your fishing in a fish-less pond here! Hope this gives some insight into it for you. For my ignorance, please forgive me.

As for addictions, check this...

rwmklI mhlw 5 ]

raamakalee mehalaa 5 ||

Raamkalee, Fifth

Mehl:

kwhU ibhwvY rMg rs rUp ]

kaahoo bihaavai ra(n)g ras roop ||

Some pass their lives enjoying pleasures and beauty.

kwhU ibhwvY mwie bwp pUq ]

kaahoo bihaavai maae baap pooth ||

Some pass their lives with their mothers, fathers and children.

kwhU ibhwvY rwj imlK vwpwrw ]

kaahoo bihaavai raaj milakh vaapaaraa ||

Some pass their lives in power, estates and trade.

sMq ibhwvY hir nwm ADwrw ]1]

sa(n)th bihaavai har naam adhhaaraa ||1||

The Saints pass their lives with the support of the Lord's Name. ||1||

rcnw swcu bnI ]

rachanaa saach banee ||

The world is the creation of the True Lord.

sB kw eyku DnI ]1] rhwau ]

e='color:080088'>sabh kaa eaek dhhanee ||1|| rehaao ||

He alone is the Master of all. ||1||Pause||

kwhU ibhwvY byd Aru bwid ]

kaahoo bihaavai baedh ar baadh ||

Some pass their lives in arguments and debates about scriptures.

kwhU ibhwvY rsnw swid ]

kaahoo bihaavai rasanaa saadh ||

Some pass their lives tasting flavors.

kwhU ibhwvY lpit sMig nwrI ]

kaahoo bihaavai lapatt sa(n)g naaree ||

Some pass their lives attached to women.

sMq rcy kyvl nwm murwrI ]2]

sa(n)th rachae kaeval naam muraaree ||2||

The Saints are absorbed only in the Name of the Lord. ||2||

kwhU ibhwvY Kylq jUAw ]

kaahoo bihaavai khaelath jooaa ||

Some pass their lives gambling.

[color=08008

8]kwhU ibhwvY AmlI hUAw ][/color]

kaahoo bihaavai amalee hooaa ||

Some pass their lives getting drunk.

kwhU ibhwvY pr drb cuorwey ]

kaahoo bihaavai par dharab chuoraaeae ||

Some pass their lives stealing the property of others.

hir jn ibhwvY nwm iDAwey ]3]

har jan bihaavai naam dhhiaaeae ||3||

The humble servants of the Lord pass their lives meditating on the Naam. ||3||

kwhU ibhwvY jog qp pUjw ]

kaahoo bihaavai jog thap poojaa ||

Some pass their lives in Yoga, strict meditation, worship and adoration.

kwhU rog sog BrmIjw ]

kaahoo rog sog bharameejaa ||

Some, in sickness, sorrow and doubt.

kwhU pvn Dwr jwq ibhwey ]

kaahoo pavan dhhaar jaath bihaaeae &

#124;|

Some pass their lives practicing control of the breath.

sMq ibhwvY kIrqnu gwey ]4]

sa(n)th bihaavai keerathan gaaeae ||4||

The Saints pass their lives singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises. ||4||

kwhU ibhwvY idnu rYin cwlq ]

kaahoo bihaavai dhin rain chaalath ||

Some pass their lives walking day and night.

kwhU ibhwvY so ipVu mwlq ]

kaahoo bihaavai so pirr maalath ||

Some pass their lives on the fields of battle.

kwhU ibhwvY bwl pVwvq ]

kaahoo bihaavai baal parraavath ||

Some pass their lives teaching children.

sMq ibhwvY hir jsu gwvq ]5]

sa(n)th bihaavai har jas gaavath ||5||

The Saints pass their lives singing the Lord's Praise. ||5||

='font-family:GurbaniWebThick'>kwhU ibhwvY nt nwitk inrqy ]

kaahoo bihaavai natt naattik nirathae ||

Some pass their lives as actors, acting and dancing.

kwhU ibhwvY jIAwieh ihrqy ]

kaahoo bihaavai jeeaaeih hirathae ||

Some pass their lives taking the lives of others.

kwhU ibhwvY rwj mih frqy ]

kaahoo bihaavai raaj mehi ddarathae ||

Some pass their lives ruling by intimidation.

sMq ibhwvY hir jsu krqy ]6]

sa(n)th bihaavai har jas karathae ||6||

The Saints pass their lives chanting the Lord's Praises. ||6||

kwhU ibhwvY mqw msUriq ]

kaahoo bihaavai mathaa masoorath ||

Some pass their lives counseling and giving advice.

kwhU ibhwvY syvw jrUriq ]

kaahoo bihaavai saevaa jaroorath |&

#124;

Some pass their lives forced to serve others.

kwhU ibhwvY soDq jIvq ]

kaahoo bihaavai sodhhath jeevath ||

Some pass their lives exploring life's mysteries.

sMq ibhwvY hir rsu pIvq ]7]

sa(n)th bihaavai har ras peevath ||7||

The Saints pass their lives drinking in the sublime essence of the Lord. ||7||

ijqu ko lwieAw iqq hI lgwnw ]

jith ko laaeiaa thith hee lagaanaa ||

As the Lord attaches us, so we are attached.

nw ko mUVu nhI ko isAwnw ]

naa ko moorr nehee ko siaanaa ||

No one is foolish, and no one is wise.

kir ikrpw ijsu dyvY nwau ] nwnk qw kY bil bil jwau ]8]3]

kar kirapaa jis dhaevai naao || naanak thaa kai bal bal jaao ||8||3||

Nanak is a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who are blessed by His Grace to

receive His Name. ||8||3||

[Mahavir]

I think Nihangs consider alcohol an "aaib" or vice, but not a kurehit. I don't think there's anything wrong if, under circumstances, you have to disinfect a wound with alcohol, or you are severely injured in a war/conflict and need alcohol to relieve the pain.

But, how many of us are ever severely injured on a battle field with only alcohol at our disposal?

I think alcohol can be used similarily as opium or cannibis, which is, in difficult times to relieve pain from injuries and such.

Most dopes just want an excuse to use these substances, so that's why they should not be part of the normal diet.