Nirgun And Sargun

[koonergs]

Could anyone give me a description on Nirgun and Sargun? :nihungsmile:

[munjoth]

veer ji from my limited understanding sargun is that what we can see, what passes through maya and is now visible to the eye...nirgun is that we cannot see.

This is Vaheguru jees to roops; sargun roop is dhan dhan sri guru granth sahib ji, then again everything is his sargun roop (of that we can see)

nirgun is where there is nothing; n roop n rekh n rang etc etc

[Singh, Mahan]

Nirgun, means something without material properties. If it does not have properties of being material, it would also be without a form. The “formless”can not be defined the same way as an entity made of matter can be defined.

Sargun means that which has become matter- has the properties by which matter can be described - meaning ,it can be seen, it has shape.

With respect to Gurbani these two words have special meaning.

The first symbol of the Mool Mantar which we pronounce as ‘Ek Ongkaar’ and translate as “One God”, consists of numeral one and the letter “ooRha “ open at the top. Open “ooRha” symbolizes an entity that has no bounds, ie, it is infinite and is unique entity and is formless That in Gurbani is called “Nirgun Nirankaar” ( Formless entity without material properties Nirgun= non material; Nirankaar = without form). That is what “God” is . It is the Ultimate Truth (Sat Naam) .

As Raag Maru Mehala Pehla -M:1 (SGGS) describes it that all things (Universe , many universes and all thing materials) have come out of “God” (Nirgun Nirankaar). (please read the entire Raag Maru M:1.) So, all material things exist within that Boundless Infinite. In the Boundless Infinite pervades the Nirgun Narankaar and when things loose its material aspect they merge back into SAT -Ultimate Truth (that is it merges back into the Formless One – God). Transformation from being Nirgun to some thing being Sargun takes place through Sunn state ( what we may call state zero. Again refer to Raag Maru M:1 in Sri Guru Granth Sahib). It is in this state that Sat ( the Ultimate Truth) takes the Sargun characteristics defined by Time (Kaal), Form (space) and energy. This also mean that the universe that we live in (That which is defined by Time , Space and Energy axis) has thus gained “sargun” aspect by passing throgh "Sunn" state. Hukam (laws that run the universe and the laws which make things happen in the universe- also known as God’s Will) has retained the Nirgun aspect.

All inanimate things PERHAPS have only the Sargun aspect to them. The life forms ( human beings, animals etc ) have both “sargun” and “nirgun” aspects. Human beings for example, have bodies made of elements and that can be called sargun aspect; and the soul that runs the “body” through “mind” has nirgun aspect to it. Soul of human beings remains attached to material things to it becomes pure ( detaches itself from material thing). In order to achieve that (reverse process) soul must go through "Sunn" state in reverse. With Naam simran and Gurbani some can achieve that goal.

[KH4L1$T4N1]

could someone explain how Waheguru Ji is both Sargun and Nirgun

[Ambrosia]

He is both nirgun and sargun... as he is ALL. It says all over in Gurbani... that he is the only one. that he is all i see, and hear... and also that he is formless too... in Jaap Sahib Ji specifically... it talks about both the nirgun and sargun... has all forms... but is beyond form and formless. In Jap Ji Sahib Ji it says thousands of feet, but not even one foot. Thousand of noses but not even one nose... how to explain his greatness!!

The human mind has a hard time to visualize or accept that God is the Only One. Cause if we truly understood this... we (self-identity, ego...) would not exist... it would only be him, and we would have been merged already. It really is a matter of our conscious awareness and ALL His Grace.... to give us the real understanding of this Play. He himself is playing with himself... he is the actors and the director and the set... etc.

To put it simply in another way... What is Waheguru Ji not?? What is Not in His Home? Nirgun or Sargun alike... he is the ALL Pervading... of both. And Beyond our measly human logic.

May Waheguru Ji bless us with understanding

Bhul Chuk Maf

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

[MAX]

The form (sargun) and the formless (nirgun) are merely facets of human perception.

We can either perceive something, or we can not.

The One Lord pervades all things, both those that are within our neurosensory range, and those that aren't.

Names, labels, religions, etc...these are all things that are man-made. Created by us in an attempt to concretise the abstract, to give form to the formless (i.e. to make nitgun into sargun) so as to make it easier for our minds to grasp certain concepts. It doesn't make the sargun 'true'. It simply makes it into a representation.

The problem, of course, is when the representation begins to take primacy over what it represents, and this continues until the original concept has disappeared, and only the empty shell remains.

No institution is above this, because every insitution is man-made.