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Sarab Loh Granth

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#1 Niranjana


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Posted 02 November 2003 - 03:31 AM

Gur Fateh!

In the Sarabloh Granth we find the following verses:

The dharma panth of the Khalsa spread, whose form is truth, liberation and auspicious action.

Adorned with kachh, kes and kirpan they worshipped the Guru.

Worshippers of Kala, [following] chhatriya dharma, they girded their loins and came first in the field of battle.

Among them forty-five were accepted, and five were supreme among the Khalsa:

The beloved Ajit Singh, Jujhar Singh, Fateh Singh and Joravar Singh,

The fifth among the Khalsa [was] the True Guru who manifested this good Panth.

Sri Sarab Loh Granth, 3, p. 496.

This is an interesting reference to the 'Kshatriya' aspect of the Khalsa vis-a-vis the 4 components that make up 'Bir Ras', namely Dharam, Daya, Dhan and Yudh and hence combine into the qualities of the Khalsa.

Also, there is the reference to the Tria Mudra (Kesh, Kirpan and Kach) that many old historical texts reference before the formalising of the 5 K's.

I was wondering what the forums views were with regard to the following:-

-Bir Ras (or 'veer' ras in Sanskrit orginal) and it's relevance today in view of the events that have unfolded say over the past 20 years, notably 1984 in Delhi and 2001 in NY, both cases where we have seen many an Amritdhari Singh fall prey to weakness*

-The importance of Kirpan vis-a-vis symbology and practicality.

-The SarabLoh Granth -should this really be made available to the public? Is it really essential for those living a Gursikh lifestyle outside that of a Dal?

Forgive any foolishness in the foregoing,

-I remain the ch

arandhoor of the Sadh Sangat-

p.s. *I reference 'weakness', not as a means of insult, but obsevation. In 1984, there were many cases where the Singhs actually removed their Shasters and gave it to the attacking Mobs and pleaded not to be harmed (of course, not only were they attacked, but their Women and Eldarly were severely dishonoured)...

...similarly following the 9/11 bombing and the case of Mistaken identity for Sikhs, whilst many practical actions have been taken, the common site was one of Sikhs wearing the Stars and Stripes under or on their Turbans, having the US flag rising next to the Nishan Sahib...and effectively turning to President Bush with folded hands "Babu Ji, sannu bachaa do..." as is evident with the recent explanations of a Kirpan being purely for Symbolic purposes...again I apologise if this offends anyone, however my concern is with the sterilised feeling within the Sikhs today...

Mahaa Kaal Kee Jae Saran Paray su lae bachae.
Uor Na upjae doosar jag pachiyo sabhai banai.

#2 Akaali


    Ajai Su Rabh Naa BohaRiou Daykh Banday Kai Bhaag

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Posted 02 November 2003 - 05:55 AM

Veerji!! You bring up some good points!!! http://www.sikhsanga...tyle_emoticons/default/wubb.gif

Well people have to know more to discover sarbloh granth, we're always looking for new things, searching for the truth, when we have the truth right in front of us. We have the truth in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji maharj, yet we are still in search of that truthful living. Its good to explore our history though, discover texts prescribed by our Guru Sahibans.

As for myself, I haven't completely understood Guru Granth Sahib ji maharaj, yet ponder over other literature, read the texts of other religions. Such a fool I am! :)

Obviously the message is clear in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but how much of it, do we really try to follow, or adapt to in our lives.

My two cents! Bhul chuk maaf karnee! ^_^

#3 Niranjana


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Posted 02 November 2003 - 07:02 AM

Khalsa Sahib, Gur Fateh!

Thanks for the kind words, I wouldn't be so harsh on yourself -I too haven't understood Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, but also spend time reading up on Mahayana Buddhism, Sufi Texts and what not!

But that's not all bad to be honest, as I've personally found knowledge to inspire deeper devotion inside of me and also when I return in my Nitnem or otherwise to Guru Mahraj, I tell you it's quite something...it's everything!

That's just what works for me...if it works for you too, then that's cool...my other (and better!) half is a lot more accomplished at reading Gurbani than me and always does a whole more when it comes to Sehaj Paaths we may undertake (I'm so blessed, Maharaj even takes care of illiterate fools like me! LOL), but she's a real fan of Rumi (the Sufi Baba) and it's made some interesting and inspiring vichaar in the past...

I remain the Charandhoor of the Sadh Sangat.

Mahaa Kaal Kee Jae Saran Paray su lae bachae.
Uor Na upjae doosar jag pachiyo sabhai banai.

#4 ms514


    Kabeer Sabh Thay Hum Burae

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Posted 02 November 2003 - 08:15 AM

Sat Sri Akal:

Welcome, fellow SikhAwareness member.

First, 1984 was not a riot. It was VERY well planned out to ensure that Sikhs were not able to retailate. Read the events at Carnage84.com. The first thing that was done was to ensure that the Gurudwaras were burnt down so no meeting place for the Sikhs existed. Next police officers broke apart any Sikhs gathering together in the streets.

The only "weakness" the Sikhs had at the time was trust in the police and government. Case after case is present in the above-mentioned websiite when Sikhs fought off mobs with pistols, but because of their trust in the police, allowed themselves to be arrested or massacared.

There are also stories from India of when 5 or 10 Sikhs chased off mobs of 100s of killers with swords.

And if Sikhs were so weak, how did 40 Sikhs with WWII weaponry hold at bay 75,000 troops and a tank battalion off for 3 days?

True, Sikhs must re-connect with their martial traditions, but to say that the Bir Ras is dead in Amritdharis is almost an insult to the Amrit imparted to them.

Sorry for the harsh words.

#5 Niranjana


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Posted 02 November 2003 - 09:40 AM

Gur Fateh!

ms514 sahib, thanks for the response. I agree with much of your post, however I am not saying the massacres that occured in 1984 were simply riots, I know all too well what they were and yes my own family members in Delhi were caught up in the crisis.

I'm not saying that Bir Ras is dead -again to use my own family example, my Nana Ji single-handed faught off 100's of attackers who had surrounded our house in Delhi (the only visibly Sikh house in the entire block) with his pistol and rifle...he is was a hero...people still refer to him as the short Sardar-Ji (at 5'5'!!!) who single handed protected his wife, daughters in law and grandchildren from the massacre.

As you will have noted, I did not say ALL Amritdharis or Sikhs lack such qualities, I am well aware of the instances where only a handful of Sikhs chased away mobs upon mobs and also of the WWI and WWII episodes...the fact still remains, that Sikhs as a whole could have protected themselves far better had certain aspects of our traditions been maintained...

...me included...I too am a shivering weakling...whilst in recent years having made attempts to remedy that through marital training and fitness...this is all too often frowned upon by certain members of one's family and Sikh circles...and the notion that the kirpan is entirely of symbolic value is disturbing...there is much that I can write about this, but in general little little things have collectively added up to sterilise the Panth...

...this is a larger discussion, but let's be honest much of the damage that was done in 1984 in Delhi and in the numerous instances that occur in the Diaspora coul

d have been lessened if we actually did retain this aspect of our tradition...more so, the vast levels of apostasy that followed would have equally been lessened and the general confidence of Sikhs remained exalted...

Again, I apologise if I have offended anyone's sentiments or feelings, it is really is NOT the intention...and accordingly I ask that any foolish words be forgiven...

-forever at the feet of the Sadh Sangat-

Mahaa Kaal Kee Jae Saran Paray su lae bachae.
Uor Na upjae doosar jag pachiyo sabhai banai.

#6 jagjit_waheguru


    Naanak Daas Kaho Gur Vaah

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 09:54 AM

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Pyare jio, Generally for most Amritdahrees, the kirpan is nothing that a ritualistic peice with little to no idea of how to use it. Let alone care for it, and have it every ready. Must of this comes from the pascifist sant-ism which is prominent nowadays.

I once saw a documentary on US marines which showed how they are were made to sleep with their guns to get used to them, and are taught to make them part of their body. Similarly Guru ji 300 years gave us the kirpans.

We have not learned the lessons of Delhi or 9/11. In fact we have not learned the lessons of Slough, Bradford, etc. Where muslims went Gutta bashing, and Sikh boys are humiliated by muslims boys to impress sikh girls. Too may Amritdharees enjoy living in their own worlds and ignore this, when they are the ones who should be doing something about it. I remember uni youth leaders calling me a trouble maker when I mentioned it. The reality was that it was them who were embarassed by their own inaction, and just what to cover their backs.

Sikhs as a society should never need to rely on anybody apart from Guru ji. They should be organised and every ready in every situation. Poltically, educationally, humanitarian, and martially.

Recently a Delhi singh stayed at my house, who was here as a kirtanee for the jatha smagam. He told me after 1978, in delhi, the jatha singhs all started learning gatka, and buying kirpans. He said they went on many protests against Nirankaris. He said it was that training, that in the roits in 1984, when the mob attacked his house, that saved him and his family. He said he struck the first person

who attacked his house, cutting him, from his side to his back. The rest of mob saw this, picked him up and fled. He said all night Singhs protrolled their neighboorhood, and had skirmishes. All he knows is the next day in the paper, in the lists of dead, in his area, there was just the name of one Hindu person.

If only every Gursikh knew how to defend themselves, delhi would never had happened. Read our history, never will you hear of Singhs going to rescue a Sikhi bibi. Only rescueing hindu bibis. That was because very Singhni knew how to defend themselves, and did not need Singhs to defend them.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!
One God: Waheguru
One Guru : Sahib Siri Guru Granth sahib Ji.
One Group : Guru Khalsa Panth!

This should be the Motto of Our Generation

#7 _mehtab_

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 10:03 AM

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Khalsa and Niranjan veerjee, Guru Gobind Singh, in one of His 52 hukams encouraged Sikhs to read texts from other religions for knowledge and for comparative understanding. But our eternal Guru is SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB always! As long as u follow SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB, i guess reading other texts for information is not bad :)

#8 Sarbloh Soulja

Sarbloh Soulja

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Posted 18 November 2003 - 10:15 AM

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!
Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

wah wah, well said jagjeet_waheguru B)
Jaikaaraa Gajaavey Fateh Paavai, Guru Kalgeedhar Jee Nu Bhaavai Nihaal Ho Jaavai!!! Sat Sree Akaaaaaaal!!!!!! GurBar Akaaaalllll!!!!

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