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Kaljugi - is absolutely right! Most of the EDL are Nazi Racists who would gladly attack any coloured people if they thought that they could get away with it. The Sikhs are more than capable of protecting themselves, and it's community, by itself. If we follow Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's instruction we are more than protected. And as tax payers we are allowed to seek help from the law/police of this country. Do not attach yourself to the EDL unless, as Kuljugi says, you want to bring shame on the panth '!!!!

This situation is getting increasingly out of hand. Our youth are allying themselves with an organisation that is so, so wrong. Can they not see that? I'm all for combatting these extremist Muslims but don't do it off the backs of these EDL folk. Sikhi is being - and will be - hugely tarnished once the general media gets grasp of the fact that Sikhs are flocking to the side of the EDL. We're going to be made to look as nutty as the EDL lot. This can only end in tears and I guarantee it will damage our religion.

All the Singhs and Kaurs advising other Sikhs to stay away from the EDL are absolutely right !!! If Sikhs are seen at any EDL marches then all the non-Sikhs will think Sikhs are racist. All our 11 Gurus spread the message of love for all of humanity. Any Sikhs who are thinking of going to an EDL march should sit down and just think of all the acts of bravery, courage and love the Gurus and Shaheeds have committed for the good of all of humanity. Once you have thought of this then image how silly you will look standing next to a bunch of racists. You will be rolling your great history in the dirt. Go and pray in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at the Gurdwara and ask with your conscience, 'Guru Ji, should I associate with the EDL? You'll get a resounding No!!! Remember you are a Sikh and you have the capability to protect yourself from Racist, without joining a bunch of racists. Don't unwittingly become the EDL's disciple, be the Guru's disciple! Remember, it’s Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa (Vaheguru Ji’s Khalsa). It’s not the ELD’s Khalsa !!

The EDL leader and his 'executive' team are confused individuals who in one sentence say we are against all Muslims and then we are just against the extremist Muslims. They blame all of the Koran for the violence, when all of the Koran does not promote violence and they should be really targeting Sharia Law and verses that promote hate from the Koran, Haidith, etc. This hate they promote toward all Muslims is not what any Sikh should promote, encourage or become a follower of. The UK Sikhs should publicly announce they don't promote or stand behind the EDL.

Gurfateh Swami Brahmdev/Bhai Gopal Singh Ji in bad health Today das had a talk with Swami Brahmdev Ji. Das wanted him to give a lecture at Mata Sundari College. On talking das came with the facts about his health. He has a fracture in leg for last 7 to 8 months. He is being operated upon twice and now doctors want the third operation which is differed due to his history of diabetes. As perSikh Jagriti Manch, he is the best scholar of the Panth. In spite of ill health he is still hell bent to serve the Panth and is in Chardi Kala. He could be contacted at his mobile 0091-9815446481 regards vd Singh

Here are some videos that show the EDL people are nothing but nazi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6k8bBweVcU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da7iRZJKvK4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC5YYbwV5yo&feature=related

Compatibility is very important if you dont want any regrets in the future. Aside from the fact that this could be simply a way for him to come to US, I would suggest that you really think about this. Do you really know him well enough? Does he really knows you well enough to be able to claim that he will never get married to someone else. Trust me, these things never happen, people move on. Its the way of the world.

God forbid Sikhi were to ever come under the hateful, occasionally unjustified and irrational ire that Islam is subjected to from most quarters of the right-wing press in the UK. When the good people within Sikhi will be asked to explain OUR faith and principles to the wider public who are unaware of Sikhi and its teachings, will anyone really listen to us when they see members of our community galavanting with the likes of the EDL? What are we going to say then? "Sikhs are a peaceful and tolerant people - but we also like the company of far-right groups like the EDL". We're going to be laughed out of town, and trust me when I say that when devious elements within the Islamic community will begin a dirty-tricks campaign against Sikhs, we are going to be up slack alley because we can't even stand together as a quom! I can see it now.

WGJKK WGKF / SAT SRI AKAL AND HELLO

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows: When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh I am standing here today as a Sikh…a son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji , a person that believes that no man should face what hardships they suffered 26 years ago a person who believes that no man or woman from any race and religion should be killed because of what they believe in. I am no here to tell you a Sakhi about one of our beloved Guru’s or here to tell you a story about a Sant. I am here to tell you the TRUTH of what Sikhism has become; a Dharm where our ancestors fought and gave up there heads for Sikhi and the freedom to practice Religion. They died not for there Religion they died for the freedom of other as well. About 300 years ago one of our Guru’s lost there lives for the Justice of Hindu’s to practice there religion. Our 10th Guru Gobind Singh Ji who lost there whole family because, they wanted everyone to have the right to practice there religion. . This is what Sikhi is about caring about other people and putting other people before them. We fight over stupid things such as money, houses, and materialistic things. We never appreciate what our ancestors have done. We are all here because of the brave Sikhs who lost there lives for protecting there religion. We are all proud of what we have achieved at school and the hard work we have done of the past 3 years but we never stop and just think what sort of people we would have become if the Khalsa Panth gave up? what sort of people would we have become if our Ancestors had not given up there lives and fallen into the pit of Maya. Some of you may be thinking that it was the past and now is the present and we should care about ourselves and our families well I say to you how would you feel your sisters mother aunts grandma’s cousins were raped how would you feel if your father brother grandfather were killed not because they looked different but the case that they were Sikhs. And how would you feel if your whole family died and looted everything from you. This may sound horrific but it is true. About 26 years ago when our beloved Shrine Sri Harmandir Sahib was attacked and thousand of Sikhs were killed, not just men but children as well. Young children who were looking forward to what sort of game they are going to play tomorrow with there friends what and will happen in school tomorrow. But they did not realize that on that very next day will be there very last. Men who were the Hero’s of India the Hero’s of India who swore that they will never kill there own people Men who swore that they never harm a child but on that very sunny calm day they became Hero’s to Villains the Villains that eventually killed of more that a thousand people and practically destroyed the Sikh Holiest Shrine. We can argue about the cause of these events we can easily blame the people who were involved in it and who eventually who were the cause of the attack it but in fact we can actually never do anything about it. Sikhism is not just about what you say it is about what you do, that makes us different from others we can boast about how religious we are and how religious is the other person. In 1699 The 10th Guru Guru Gobind Singh Ji gathered 100 thousands of people and said that who will give there head for there Guru only five stood.. when the tank blasted the walls and killed innocent people and what did we do nothing what did our parents do nothing what did the Committees of Gurdwaras do nothing they just watched the horror and did nothing about. Once a wise man said there a three types of people in the world there are the minority who do something there are the minority who doesn’t know what’s happening and worst of all the people who know what is happening but don’t do anything about. When we start to think about what have these committees done for us we all ponder we say well some spend millions and millions on Gurdwaras and still at the end of the day nothing has really happened. But some spend nothing and keep it to themselves at the end of the day nothing has really improved and still the youth are in a mess. Couple of moths ago there was a Gurdwara which I will not name was convicted of fraud some of the receipts or the donations from the Sangat were apparently missing and when the culprit was found out nobody did anything and he wasn’t even reported to the police also a committee in the midlands where they served meat and gave alcohol to the sangat were allegedly told by the SGC to close down the Gurdwara or take the SGGS out of the Building luckily they have changed. We live in a society where head of the political parties at the Gurdwaras start to fight argue and eventually start to fight and when these chairman’s are elected they take most of the Sangats money and put it into there own bank accounts. Almost everyday they are people who come down our school road and create havoc amongst the pupils of our school even though they are from the same culture and they are from the religion they still cause havoc. We can not blame these people for who they are we should take Justice on the people who put them in the wrong path. But we can also arise the question on why are we not doing anything about it. Is it us and not taking the courage to stand up or is it the media where these people watch depressing programs on TV and they think that they should behave like that. When these committees are elected the only things in there minds are Money it is not here only It is also in India as well they have been many Gurdwaras in the India in which they have gone against the Rehat Maryada and made one of there own. Some have actually disrespected Maharaj so much that eventually that they need to replace the damaged one and get a new one. When these parties have a disagreement with each other some of the party members start to fight with the members of the other party and in some cases there have been people who have been injured and the police has been called down. This is the type of behavior that Sikhism opposes. As the people in America consider the twin towers falling was there wake up call and there 9 11 we should consider the fall of Akal Takht as our 9 11 and our wake up call. Everyday just think of the mothers who can not sleep at night because they can still hear the gun fire, think of the fathers who still remember there wives there sons being shot and there daughters raped think of the 9 year child who died at the attacks and always remember the two Sikhs who gave up there lives for our religion. We are not late we still have time but we must act together side by side for freedom and justice. I have nothing to offer you but if we all put our hands together and pray to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and ask for strength and courage we can all finally have justice and freedom. ACT NOW OR SIKHI WILL BE GONE FOREVER Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh lion kingdom i am saying that if we do not do anythign now sikhi will be truly gone because if u look in the uk only a minority of the new generation now about sikhism and there parents are sikh if we do nothing we won't achieve anything. Guru ji gave us alot and we are slowly losing it look at today the state of punjab 800 girls to 1000 boys. they are aborting female foetus. We have done nothing in the last 26 years look at the 84 riots alot of people died in that but no one did anything. I am sorry if anyone is offended by this but this is from the heart Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Perwinder Singh, are you from the EDL?

Here is a video, where an interview was done with EDL leader. See for yourself how stable this man is and how stable his second in command are. One of his foot soldiers has a hard time completing a sentence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9lvhJAzSY

Gurfateh Dear Brother, Forgive das for his snobbish behavior. About Rashtriya Sikh Sangat. There has been a an allegation of economic irregularities by one person, who left them. With regard to their new head quarter near New Delhi railway station. God only knows the truth. Two main functionaries of them have doubt on the conduct of das as they are aware that das is by know well associated with various panthic organization on some issues which will include missionaries, taksal, akj etc. By mercy of God, all trust Das their own, das tries to bring in arbitration in their mutual conflicts yet not with much success. As two people doubt das and something happens to them, das could be entrapped uselessly so inspite of their calling das to their office das does not goes their as they do not call das in their think tank meeting at present. Another thing has that das was not well for last year or so maybe due to sins of this and past birth. So not much public activities. Lastly das never fought for Shri Dasam Granth Sahib but was against the misinterpretation of Shri Guru Granth Sahib. As result now there are attacks on Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the same logic. Anyway by now das realizes during ailment that das is hypocrate, who himself oes not follow that holy text.

I occasionally lament the absence of certain types of - modern-day - characters in our religion and culture. For example, there's lots of dodgy, devious players who work against Sikhi interests in general but we've never had a Machiavellian-type character who is as loyal and as "Sikhi" as the best Sant-Sipahi out there. A political machinator whose sole aim is to elevate Sikhs to where they truly belong. Someone as dexterous and as comfortable with words and his brain, as some other Sikhs are with their shastar and their bodies. Someone who understands that its okay to play fire with fire, and its okay to bend the rules occasionally but as long as the ultimate aim is to keep Sikhi's best interests at the forefront. Someone so desperately ruthless and single-minded that "things" get done and progress is made for the benefit of our people. Instead whenever a Sikh gets to a certain level within in society, its always in submission to a higher, non-Sikhi purpose. Maybe such characters are not bred in the fields and villages of Panjab. Maybe our humble, rural beginnings will always count against us? Sure there'll be the odd 'break-through' personalities, but it won't be wholesale progress that is needed in order to make a difference. I don't know - this has gone seriously off-topic. Maybe a new thread could be opened by the mods entitled 'The Future of Sikhs'?

Gurfateh Dear Comrade Inqalabi Ji, Kindly visit the website of Jathedar Takaht Patna Sahib or contact Nanak Singh ji Nishtar about the actions being taken in the east. http://www.jathedartakhatpatnasahib.org/index.php?option=com_msphotos&view=list&cid=3&r=2723002&by=c_l&from=3 and for Nanak Singh Nishtar http://www.forgottensikhs.com/Contact%20Us.htm Lastly about das's relation with RSS. By the way das is interested to know your identity first? Were you in Rashtriya Sikh Sangat and saw das there ? Are you aware about the people with whom das is working? or aware of job profile of das, first let your identity be established. your name talks of leftism as we in Sikhism are swampped by Inqlabi comrades like Ghugga Ji,Jeonawala Brar, Harmann Mann, so on and so forth. So only if you have any association with Panthic bodies like AKJ, SGPC or DDT, then only das will share his details on email else nothing could be extracted from him. Just to prove his identity das is posting the link of his own photo from a third independant site sorry for being harsh but at present there are many sheeps hiding in the hide of lion. Das is anyway a donkey and not a brave Sikh or Singh even but distrust to brethren is rampant due to intruders in faith. Again forgive das and give your identity.

The Dudley Gurdwara committee is far from perfect, they make many questionable decisions, and some (meat sharab parties and extension of building) are downright wrong BUT Why are words being thrown around that they get a "buzz off corrupting young children"??? No one gets a buzz off that, they are not some vicious animals or members of other religions who want to destroy Sikhi. Keep the topic to the topic, and that is closing down the meat and sharab parties, ensuring that the building is not extended and making sure beadbi does not take place. When you start throwing around names and accusations that are not true then you dilute the argument. Grow up!

Exactly. Also, why is it that whenever you take family members (who live in Panjab) with you for the darshan of various Gurudwaras, they're always in a rush to leave? Its "chalo, chalo, chalo" all the time. Its unfuriating. I've never been given the chance to just sit down at the edge of the sarovar and just connect or meditate on my surroundings. I don't understand what the rush is for. I've not been to India in nearly a decade, but I'm seriously considering not telling anyone the next time I go. I'm just going to find a hotel and stay there, and then visit all the Gurudwaras in my own time and in peace without any nonsense.

Gurfateh Well use akalustatvijaydeep@gmail.com mobile is 9891523837(country code 0091). After the death of Rulda Singh, these guys never Das has any info about their meetings.

Respect for Guru Ji Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, our living Guru, the spiritual light of our 10 Guru's, King of Kings, the ones who give us everything and have all the answers. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji deserves the utmost respect. Unfortunately this has not been happening. We hear stories of people keeping saroops of Guru Ji in closets or on shelves. People taking Guru Sahib to halls and other inappropriate places where Guru Sahib would never want their children to be seen let alone themselves. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's horse knew better than to step in a tobacco field, but yet we take Guru Sahibs saroop to where alcohol and tobacco is served or is stored. This just breaks my heart. Where has the respect for our Guru gone, they've blessed us with everything, and this is how we repay them? In olden times people use to walk to the gurdwara every morning to have darshan of Guru Sahib. This was such a big deal for them. We have forgotten how to treat Guru Sahib with respect. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing" -Edmund Bure www.sikhhelpline.com 1 Satkaar Campaign - Dudley Gurdwara 2 Leeds Chapeltown Gurdwara Bans Parties with Alcohol, Meat on Premises 3 VIDEO abt Eating meat & drinking in a Gurdwara 4 SRI AKAL TAKHT SAHIB ISSUES SANDESH 5 Edinburgh Gurdwara - STOP Meat, Alcohol and Parties 6 Maharaja Jassa Singh Hall Update 10th January 2011 7 BBC-Temples 'breaking the Sikh code 8 Videos - Sri Akal Takht Sahib Jathedar 9 RAMGARHIA SIKH TEMPLE STOP MEAT AND ALCOHOL 10 Firstly, who/what is the Satkaar campaign

You see, that's where people (like us) in Western countries will never revolt. We're given a certain amount of (strictly regulated) leeway in order to lead our lives as we see fit, BUT within the remit of how "they" want us to live. Sure, we don't live in poverty and there are a few decent opportunities to make something of our lives, but everything is not as transparent and fair as it should be. Things are only getting worse and the problem a few people have realised is that no matter which political party you vote for, the net outcome is the same because the ACTUAL people in-charge are not the politicians we see on the TV but the unseen forces that control everything of value. Now, I'm not referring to any tin-hat theories of the likes of the Illuminati or anything outlandish like that, but you only have to scratch the surface to see that Western people are not as free as they are led to believe. The problem in the likes of the U.S. and the U.K. is that a select few control everything. However, the lie spun to everyone by those at the top is that "You too can become one of us". This is done through the media on TV, the newspapers, or even something as apparently harmless as the television programmes we watch. Direct indoctrination is out of the window - its the subtle kind that washes over us that is doing the damage. Western people have been dazzled with the cult of celebrity and the lifestyles of the affluent - anything of real value is secondary. Spirituality is almost a dirty word and religion is considered as pure evil. Sadly the people ("the proles" as George Orwell calls them) have sleepwalked into a hole from which there is no escape. As long as they've got their pints down the pub, their football and their annual holiday, everyone is happy and nobody will ever complain.

The Indian government would argue that its a small minority (Sikhs) that are causing "trouble", whereas the rest of the population (the one's they selectively choose to see) are content. The problem is that its this so-called minority that has done the most for the country. Yet our achievements are almost being air-brushed out of history so as to minimise our positive impact on the country, and our right to justice and equality. Had the Sikhs been blessed with savvy, forward-thinking leaders - after the lifetime of Dasme Paatsha - who had taken Guru Gobind Singh Ji's splendid idea of taking Amrit and rendering all classes as equal, such leaders would've realised that everything is a numbers game. They could've targetted the aforementioned poverty-stricken classes and said, "Look, you don't have to be the down-trodden or the misfortunate forever. If you want to embrace Sikhi, then you shall become part of a brotherhood where you will not have to live in shame and be treated like sub-humans". Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this Guru Ji's original intention? Had someone with the fore-thought of not just their own lifetime but for the eternal survival of Sikhi, carried on this mission we could've seen huge swathes of India become Sikh. I'm referring to a concerted effort - a determined policy to swell the ranks of Sikhs in India, if you will. We needed a canny political thinker and quom-forwarders. We've never been short of mighty warriors - it would've been nice to have someone mighty cerebral too (again, I'm referring to the years after our Gurus). But instead we fell into the trap of kingdom-making and wealth accumulation (in the times of the Sikh Raaj), and we eventually were harried back into Panjab, and that's where we remain to this day. It was a missed opportunity because nobody stepped up and further watered the frankly marvellous seed that Guru Gobind Singh Ji planted. By the time Sant Ji arrived on the scene, it was about the survivial of Sikhi itself - never mind its expansion into other frontiers. Whilst he was successful in his mission, it was a rescue from a situation that could've been avoided if action had been taken 100's of years prior to 1984. Back to the topic in hand (:BL:), when uprisings in Egypt, Tunisia, etc., begin to occur it just makes me think about our own situation and how things desperately need to change.

(Seriously off-topic)....One could argue that similar nepotism and the policy of "its not what you know, but who you know" is practiced in so-called progressive countries such as the UK, U.S.A, etc., whereby internships, lucrative employment offers, etc., are handed out amongst the ruling elite and their privately educated offspring and related associates. It happens everywhere although some countries like to offer the illusion that everything is fair and even-handed, when we know for a fact that it absolutely isn't. But I totally understand the situation as described by Isingh - India (and places like it) make it so obvious. :D

One thing I have noticed that the Police and armed forces have not killing their own people on mass during the demos. In India thousands were killed by the forces. The Police do not hesitate to use live ammunition in India. Could we see the people uprising in India the 80 % who have been left out of economic progress? The recent reports of 35% of Indias wealth having dissapeared offshore taken by its leaders since 1947 has got people angry.

While I may not support the racist elements which have been attracted to EDL I fully support Tommy Robinson and his leadership core group openly as a British Sikh,I oppose Militant Islam and Militan Hinduism in all its forms - Im a proud British Khalistani Sikh

The national front NF now knwn as the BNP rioted in Southall not the EDL it did not exist during those times and had nothing to do with it ,neither did the leadership of EDL,half of whom were not even born.

What about ur Contact No or Email ? I have lots of question on Sanatan Sikhi ? And r u still in Rashtriya Sikh Sangat .

U mean u are no longer associated with RSS and its sister concerns ? And last time i have ur people are very active in eastern side of India to spread Sikhi . Whats the progress sir are we winning converts or not ?

Veer Ji dont get scared . U dont know me and i am not leftist . Inqulaab means revolution not just Red Revolution. And how do i know u . I am Amar_jkp i don't think u remember me . I got ban from this and Sikh Awareness forum and i also used to post in Sikh philosphy forum where u were always fighting Khalsa fauj on Dasam Granth.

sikhi will never be gone ! DHAN DHAN BABA NANAK ........

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa. Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh. As a scientist, I have learned that following a protocol (exactly) is very important - otherwise, an experiment does not work. For example, if one forgets to add TEMED to a polyacrylamide gel, it does not solidify (for those familiar with Western blotting). Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us a protocol to follow when conducting an Amrit Sanchar. The most central part of this protocol is the actual preparation of Amrit, which is prepared by Panj Piare (Amritdhari, Rehat-following Singhs) who take turns to recite the following Banis in their entirety: Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tvai Prasad Swaiye, Chaupai Sahib (up to ...Gobind Das Tuhaar), and Anand Sahib (40 Pauris). Details are important. If one leaves out part of a Bani, then the protocol has not been followed properly and the experiment (making Amrit) fails. When I took Amrit last year, the Panj Piare did not read the five Banis in their entirety (they left out the last part of Chaupai Sahib from Kripa Kari Hum Par Jag Mata...). This was because the Panj Piare followed the SGPC Maryada when preparing Amrit (my worst nightmare). (I signed up for an Amrit Sanchar in another city because there are never Amrit Sanchars where I live.) Because they did not read the five Banis in their entirety, I feel that I never took Amrit. I've felt that all year (it's not a very happy feelings). The Panj Piare also did not give us the whole Mool Mantar (only up to Gurprasad). I've kept the Rehat of Nitnem, Kakaars, etc. But I have erred in eating (I ate Doritos, M&Ms, stuff with glycerin - I was not familiar with the origin of a lot of ingredients at the time, but I've learned from my mistakes and I only eat sukki roti with dahin now ... sometimes with saag.) So I believe I have to appear in front of the Panj Piare for these mistakes. But I'm confused because I feel I never actually took Amrit in the first place. (I wish I could ask Giani Thakur Singh Ji about this.) So I was thinking of retaking Amrit from the beginning (to get Amrit that contains the five Banis in their entirety and to get the whole Mool Mantar up to Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach). Does anyone know if anyone has ever taken Amrit using SGPC Maryada and then retaken it (from the beginning) using Taksali Maryada? Thanks. (And I don't want to start some sort of crazy debate. I would prefer if like-minded Taksali folks commented (and SGPCers kept their distance).)