Leaderboard

I read the following passage in another thread. Instead of going off topic on the original thread, I have created this new one. -------------------------------------------------------------- I disagree that Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma has achieved many things by siding with Parkash Badal and his Dal. What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma accomplished in the affairs of the SGPC, Punjab's Government, or Sikh sovereignty since he's headed Dam Dami Taksal Mehta, headed the Sant Samaj, and nurtured such a warm relationship with the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal) at large? I see a few things that may be seen as accomplishments by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma The 1984 memorial complex being created The removal of the Nanakshahi calendar Getting approval for Taksal's kathavachaks to do parchar from Manji Sahib A "Martyr's Gallery" at the 1984 memorial (http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/apex-body-accepts-damdami-taksals-demand-4708101/) On a panthic level, can any of the above be termed as any significant achievement or contribution for our nation by a person who heads one of the oldest Sikh schools, an organization of Sants/Vidhvaans, and has relations with influential political leaders? They can not; these are paltry victories in the face of immense issues of our community. The biggest issues of the Panth (including but not limited to): The decline of Sikhi in Punjab Due to things like: Proliferation of drugs, lack of parchaar and spiritual sustenance, government suppression of Sikh movements Lack of justice and healing from 1984 and following genocide Tens of thousands Sikhs killed, tortured, detained, made political prisoners, and continued mass impunity for perpetrators Corruption at the Akal Thakht, SGPC, and Sikh institutions Focussing on the SGPC, has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done much of anything to elicit worthwhile change in all the shortcomings, mismanagement, corruption, and overall foolishness of the SGPC? In the video below Jathedar Ranjit Singh outlines many of the ways the Badal family has usurped the Sikhs' sovereign power and misused the Panth's power and wealth for their own benefit. He also talks about many actions of the SGPC that are blatantly corrupt. The Badals more or less ordered the SGPC to hand over the rights to relaying Gurbani from Harmandir Sahib from ETC Punjabi to PTC Punjabi at no charge. While the SGPC was to receive payment from ETC for the deal, the SGPC has received no compensation from the Badal family for the over 1100 Crore Rupees that PTC Punjabi owes as of 2013! Time and time again Baldev Singh Sirsa and Jathedar Ranjit Singh expose scams executed by SGPC officials to enrich themselves at the expense of the Sikh nation's funding. Property Scam - https://www.sikh24.com/2017/05/12/baldev-singh-sirsa-exposes-property-scam-in-sgpc-during-avtar-makkars-tenure/#.WYzaf_krKHs Property Scam - http://indianexpress.com/article/india/sgpc-chief-to-probe-land-deal-during-avtar-singh-makkars-tenure4789971/ Recruitment Scam - http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/recruitment-scam-in-sgpcrun-guru-granth-sahib-world-un Badal seeking favours from Gurdwara Judicial Panel - http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020522/main6.htm You will notice the SGPC always constituting its own "committees" of its own men to investigate. Does anyone think that will ever lead to a credible investigation where the truth and justice is of utmost importance? Nope. When a judicial panel tells the SGPC to have a private firm do an audit, the SGPC just ignores it. Complete disregard. - http://sikhsangat.org/2009/sikh-gurdwara-judicial-panel-slaps-contempt-notice-on-sgpc/ From the 7:00 mark Jathedar Ranjit Singh goes through the misdeeds of the Badal family and the SGPC. In relation to "2. Lack of Justice and Healing from 1984 and following genocide, What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done with his influence on the Badal family and SGPC in that area? Thousands of Punjab police officers involved in our genocide have roamed with impunity. Badal Dal, while promising over many elections, particularly in the 1990s to punish all the guilty has done the complete opposite. They have sheltered, protected, rewarded, and saluted those same officers, and not just the big boys like Sumedh Saini, Izhar Alam, etc.. Did Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma do anything to use his political influence on the Badals to have impartial investigations, charges, and eventual punish meted down for the guilty? Some may know that the Shiromani Akali Dal used to have a "Shiromani Akali Dal Human Right Wing"; Jaswant Singh Khalra was the General Secretary of it. Why do you think that wing has gone into oblivion? Khalra and others working in that wing investigated and uncovered the crimes of the government. The Badals don't want such crimes to see the light of day and have as such instituted policy not to support human right endeavours in the political party of the Sikhs or the SGPC. Has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done anything to get the SGPC or Akali Dal to mobilise their resources toward hiring investigators, former police officers, former judges, or lawyers to research, investigate, and expose to the world, and begin legal proceedings for all those crimes that were committed against the Sikhs? Jathedar Gurdev Singh Kaunke was tortured and murdered by Jagraon Police. A report was conducted by the Punjab government but was never released. Badal promised to release it if it came into power. He never did. What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done to get that report released? Especially since this particul victim was of such high regard from Dam Dami Taksal. In relation to "3. Corruption at the Akal Thakht, SGPC, and Sikh institutions" The Akal Thakht and SGPC has been controlled by the political overlords, whether it was Tohra or Talwandi exerting their influence, or the Badals in the modern day. The "leaders" of our nation in the form of Thakht Jathedars are chosen by the Badals to be "yes men", support the status-quo, and be wielded for political gain. The SGPC president is chosen in this exact way too. What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done to change these political interferences and institute a system by with the nation chooses its leaders? What actions has he taken to ensure leadership at these levels works for the betterment of the community instead of the political betterment of the Badal family? While everyone makes much fuss over the Indian government destroying and stealing our priceless historical artifacts in 1984, the destruction that the SGPC has either directly or indirectly caused to our heritage is spectacular. Dozens if not hundreds of buildings razed or allowed to crumble. The possessions and artifacts of our Guru's and prominent Sikhs decay and turn to dust; this is living history going to waste forever to be inaccessible to our future generations. The SGPC has been aware of all this but this is not a priority for them. I'm sure Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma knows of this too. What has he done to mobilise SGPC resources towards the preservation of our history? I find it ironic that such a learned individual will do katha of and teach katha of Suraj Parkash or Panth Parkash, but that actual history he narrates he doesn't seem to be too bothered about protecting. Uncovered during the Badal's construction of the horrendous plaza outside Harmandir Sahib - https://www.sikh24.com/2013/12/02/sgpc-set-to-destroy-more-sikh-heritage/#.WYzdNvkrKHs Mansion of Mangal Singh Ramgarhia near Harmandir Sahib demolished. SGPC knew and did nothing. http://news.ukpha.org/2013/09/mansion-of-sikh-general-mangal-singh-ramgharia-razed-to-the-ground/ Relics of the Guru's decaying - http://news.ukpha.org/2013/02/priceless-possessions-left-to-decay-in-neglected-forts-among-them-relics-of-guru-gobind-singh/ Relics of Guru Arjan Dev Ji decaying going to waste - http://news.ukpha.org/2013/02/as-bilgas-treasure-decays-villagers-seek-outside-help/ Finally, while he has been President of the Sant Samaj for a great length of time, the other Vidhvaans of the organization have become disillusioned with his leadership or lack-there-of. Mahapurakhs like Baba Lakhbir Singh Ratwara Sahib, Baba Hari Singh Randhawe wale, Baba Amir Singh Jawaddi Taksal wale, Baba Seva Singh Rampur Khere wale all have left or distanced themselves from the Sant Samaj due to its wayward leadership and direction. - https://sikhsiyasat.net/2017/02/03/93-sant-samaj-leaders-part-ways-baba-harnam-singh-dhumma/ Many of the occurrences and facts I have presented above are not caused or created by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma. However, in being the leader of Dami Dami Taksal and the Sant Samaj, and having such warm and close relations with the Badal family, the SGPC, and Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal), he has achieved very little in rectifying or ameliorating any of those issues in any meaningful way. It is treachery and deception with the Panth for Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma to have aligned, supported, and collaborated with the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal); and to think, I haven't even mentioned Badal's and the Shiromani Akali Dal's collusion and cooperation in the June 1984 attack and subsequent smothering of the resistance movement. Have other leaders in the Panth also joined and supported the Badal family? Yes. But, no dharmic leader has been closer or supported the Badals with more zeal than Baba Harnam Singh Dumma. What triumph has he produced from that support? Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma may well have done a lot of things over his lifetime, however, the high position and influence he has been given have gone to waste. He does not seem to to have the wit, vision, strategic acumen, or transparency that Sikhs require from a person in such a position. -------------------------------------------------------------- If there are any mistakes or criticisms of the above analysis please voice them!

Why you so rude? It is so off putting when you talk. You sound angry miserable stubborn and a kid who tries to act like the badboys. Your language disgusts me you are vile. In most your posts you swear. And then you want people to read/agree to your posts.

I never pointed at guru ji or mata ji or bhai mani singh. I have no idea how u ppl jump to sich conclusions. Beyond me. Then again im not shocked tbb. Sangat who has been reading my replies knows what i have said. I neved said anything abt mata ji. Why dont you just interview me on the tv. That way you can see all my beliefs.

I just wanted to point out whoever said the bullet hole was in the back of his head, if you knew a bit about forensics (even watching CSI you'd know) that a bullet has two wounds, entry and exit. The exit is always larger and bleeds more. It's because the bullet enters creating a hole size of the round but then due to tissue and bone gets squished on itself, this causes it drag tissue along with it towards the exit. More debris exiting than what went in initially and the force causes a larger exit wound as it explodes outward. So the bullet was not from behind. It was from in front and exit wound was at back of his head. (Experience in forensics)

I said Rehit not SRM. Rehit referring to the Code of Conduct laid out by Guru Sahib and not the ones changed by SGPC.

* CROWDFUNDING PAGE TO SUPPORT JAGRAJ SINGH’S FAMILY * On the 20th July 2017, our dearest brother and friend, Jagraj Singh, lost his fight against cancer. In the immediate aftermath, we celebrated his life, the wonderful legacy he established and heard some amazing stories of the positive effect he had on so many lives. The family of Jagraj Singh, his friends, peers and colleagues at Everythings 13 have been humbled by the love and support of the Sangat and have found much strength in this. Through love and compassion in the Sangat, many people have also asked about setting up fundraising pages, crowdfunding pages and generally asking how they can support the family of Jagraj Singh. These requests have prompted a small group of Jagraj Singh and Sukhmani Kaur’s close friends to set up a public fundraising page to support Jagraj Singh’s family. The aim of this fundraising page is to try and help Sukhmani Kaur pay off the family's mortgage and finance the children’s long- term education. We invite everyone who was inspired by Jagraj Singh to contribute, however small or large. https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/jagrajsinghsfamily (Please note, this is the only fundraising effort with the approval of Sukhmani Kaur. It has been organised by friends of Jagraj Singh and Sukhmani Kaur and is not connected to Everythings13 or any other affiliated organisation)

There was nothing wrong in that. Two people gave two different khandas and dhadrianwale did not want to dishearten them by not wearink a khanda. They are above one another therefore seem lile a kalgi. It was not rees of maharaj. Secondly nothing is wrong in matha tek. Some gursikhs bow down to each other. Forget bowing down, Maharaj says 'meri khaloho moajre gursikh handande'. Make my skin into the shoes of those gursikhs!! It is about respect. Yes the sharda we have should be 'he is a gursikh' not 'he is god'. Some kids matha tek to parents. They do not see the mum and dad as god but it is a form of respect. Do we not take asheervaad from our mums? It is not wrong. However Dhumma did this is maharajs hajoori which IS wrong. That is rees of kalgidhar sache patshah. Thirdly, many many years ago dhadrianwale have stopped people trying to matha tek them because some of us have little brains and cannot gather big concepts. Haha sangat ji give your money to akalifauj he will take care of all matters. Babaji had a red light???? So you believe babbu mann songs just because be sang a line abt a red light. Hahah We all know dhummas the gov dog. Babaji are a mahan gurmat parcharak. They dont ask for money babaji do not live lavish life and are very humble. You so jealous.

I'm not involved in any of these parcharik issues. But no one here really knows what he hit. What's it even matter, shield or eye, one would be harder to penetrate, the other much harder to aim for. Both are VERY impressive. Let's be critical over legit issues. Rather than attacking fellow Sikhs over anything.

F**k you. You're a real piece of work.

What's it matter what he pierced? I bet most people don't even know specifically, but respect that he went up against an elephant and won.

Hinduvaad is in almost every corner of sikhi. We are polluted by it. Of course i believe in bani i am not a missionary. But our ithihaas is full of lies. All i am saying i do not believe it is all maharajs bani. Pretty simple right. Whether you like it or not. I dont believe dasam granth should be on the same level as maharaj. Well then i have said all that there is to say.

Awesome video jee. Dhadrianwale have explained it so well. No point comparing to sant ji. Sikhs can have interpretations that vary. Also, even sant ji didnt say have a bath in charandhoor. Haha. Sikhs make progress chatanga ji. Who knows. If sant ji were alive they may have had more time to tackle hinduvaad. And maybe some panth gadaars would have tried to do a shabeel on them too!! If you guys cannot understand babajis katha then no way will you understand from the likes of me. Best wishes ji. You contradict yourself. To me you say 'whats changed in taksal' and now u agree that taksal aint the same. Well done. When we say taksal aint the same, it means in terms of aims objectives panthic sewa morals beliefs, giaan, behni uthni, satkar and priorities etc. Huge thank you for this video.

I dont memorise suraj parkash but next time i hear it i will deffo paste it to you for your awareness. Are you a onother chatanga? No where have i ever even suggested that. I have always and will always hugely respect baba deep singhs shaheedi. Why do all u guys on here think i am a missionary. My standard? I am not snobby. Taksal has dropped its standard ok. It hurts. You do not know me at all. Not even 2%. So you can not assume you know my character ji.

I opposed darshan singh very strongly. Especially when he visited uk. I still oppose him. But I didnt know you are so intetested in my views. I know. I have an idea. Do this. make a table and in each column write a name and i can fill in whether i agree or disagree with the person! Er. No. Just because you believe something it doesnt mean everyone does. Dhadrianwale didnt kill anyone. Repeating a lie doesnt convert it to a truth. Missionaries didnt kill bhupinder singh. Your leader did. Haha dhadrianwale aint the killers. We all know that. You blind. You must hate it that the missionaries have more akkal than taksalis. And no. Firstly, i have never supported darshan singh and secondly, you cannot seriously judge whether it was whole heartedly or half because you havent opposed dhumma even quarter heartedly. Gand? Stop repeating me. I aint missionary anyway. This is so funny. Guru granth sahib ji are 10 patshahiya di jyot. Do you not believe that? If u believe that then u wouldnt question singhunit why he has singh in his name. You need to reconsider your aim on this forum. Stop with the extreme opinions.

So we should believe suraj parkash word for word? For eg take the story about guru ji doing sewa for 12 years. And suraj parkash says (and taksalis believe) that after 12 yrs guru ji had keere in their sees because of the 12 saropas.. How can we as gurujis sikhs ever believe this. Nobody says we cant question or ask such stories. Added: Okay. There was me trying to be civil. And polite. I have explained my view on dasam granth. Ill explain further. I do not do 3 banis. I read chandi di // i read jaap sahib etc and fully believe its maharajs bani. I have stated i do not believe ALL of dasam granth as it is not all maharajs bani. Okay? Go on call me a missionary rss athiest muslim hindu jewish devil etc. Yawwwwwwn

No. If it disagrees with gurbani i will condemn it. Simple. Errr i think destructions the one crying ji.

And of course you would believe anything that gives you approval to eat meat. Suraj parkash is not dhur ki bani therefore it can have mistakes and milaavat. When people have no logic or people skills they just become hot headed and foul mouthed like you. You dont have the ability to listen to views. You have absolutely no intelligent input. Wash your mouth destruction. I bet you are now going to come up with some new sakhi as to why we should swear as sikhs and use any example on the planet to justify it like 'Dhumma swears and hes our god so we as his pets must follow in his footsteps and teach his wisdom on swearing'.

Taksal is already dead. No jameer. Listen. Did indhira win by doing sant ji shaheed? No. Shaheed hon vala shaheed karan vale nu hara dinda. Losers. You so called taksalis have so much hatred. Sodha? You mean the paap of taking innocent lives.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Why dont you just openly go and stand shoulder by shoulder with dhumma? Maybe fulfil your gay fantasies there too. You can be dhummas little obedient <banned word filter activated>. Current taksal will approve anything. No limits. Muslim? This forum is getting way too funny. Do you even know what words mean? Listen taksal killed a singh that is a fact you badal puppet. You taksalis are acting like muslim extremists yet you wana call me a muslim. You funny little boys. Slandering is making stories up like Ajnaloo Baba does. Where do you learn such gand? Telling the truth is not the same as slandering. slander ˈslɑːndə/ noun LAW 1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

Well done for coming and spreading more hatred.

Suraj parkash is not all correct.

This thread is still going....yawn

Yes, you are absolutely correct. You're also right that Baba Ram Singh Namdhari was the real founder of the Quit India Movement. And that the Indian media and education system does not promote or possibly even mention Baba ji. BTW, are you a Namdhari? It should be noted that that Baba ji was not a "Namdhari" like today's "Namdharis", who believe in a human Guru, and don't believe in the Guruship of Guru Granth Sahib. In my opinion, the Namdharis should come into the mainstream of the Sikh panth, and accept Guru Granth Sahib as Guru. Their current guru would then become a Babaji. They can keep their distinctive white dress and extremely high level of gurmat sangeet, and possibly also their distinctive manner of naam simran, they just need to accept the Guruship of the True Guru, and they will be golden. Would any Sikh have any objection to this?

http://sabh13.com/174-naudha-bhagti-ishwar-amolak-lal/

To your average punjabi 'Sikh', all prachariks etc are pretty much the same... money makers and hypocrites. The fact that Ranjit Singh has managed to get such a big following and bring your average joe into Sikhi is massive, yeah people cuss him but at least he bringing people into Sikhi which is what is needed. Remeber Sant Jarnail Singh Ji used to say that each Amritdhari is a BOMB in the eyes of the GOI. The Taksal, where anyone likes it or not is and has been the forefront of Sikhs. We are doing the Sarkaar's job by disrespecting it. Look at the state propoganda has left the wider Nihang image in? This our time to sambaal the Taksal, otherwise oncoming generations will not respect it and we lose a MASSIVE part of the Khalsa Panth like we practically have with the majority of Nihangs. Whether someone is a shardhaloo of Ranjit Singh or Taksal, if either is bringing someone into Sikhi then its for the greater good of Sikhi. Remeber a Sikh is someone who is always learning, so even if they take Amrit from Parmeshar Diwar or Taksal, the individual should always be learning and take his/her own path towards Waheguru.

Bro I'm not attacking anyone over anything. I grew up on Ranjit Singh's Prachar, he was probably the first person (sikhi wise) who I could sit still and listen to, but from what I know its a recorded historical fact where it hit. Both are very impressive but its better to be as concise as possible. We shouldn't cut corners with these kind of things.

Ramdas/ Ajnala: An incident of beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib took place at a Gurdwara Sahib in village Madu Shanga near Ramdas in Ajnala Tehsil of Amritsar district. The incident took place at Gurdwara Mansa Puran Sahib which is a joint Gurdwara Sahib for three villages namely, Madu Shanga, Talwandi Bhanwa and Kot Mugal. The beadbi was spotted by Granthi Bhupinder Singh last evening, when during the Rehras nitnem he observed that Guru Granth Sahib's Angs from 729 to 741 were torn. The accused of the beadi was identified as Ranjit Masih s/o Rehman Masih (masih is a christian surname), r/o Talwandi Bhanwa with the help of CCTV footage. https://sikhsiyasat.net/2017/08/09/police-sikh-sangat-clash-accused-beadbi-near-ramdas-identified-cctv-footage/ ============================= Sikhs have often blamed or had suspicions about Hindutva RSS goons being responsible for most of the beadhi cases in punjab. But it turns out punjabi christians or those who have converted to christianity in punjab have been caught doing guru's beadhi. Their evil pastors are encourage their new converts to sell drugs to vulnerable poor punjabi youths to hook and entrap them into their christian church cult and then to attack their own previous religions holy books covertly as they are told they are from the devil and Christianity is the only true religion to be saved.

The political correct attitude of our tree hugging liberals will ruin our kaum. Not so long ago Korean Christian ladies were preaching Christianity within the premises of Darbar Sahib, Amritsar. You can check a video by United Sikhs regarding this on youtube. All these movements started on a large scale after militancy especially, when Sikhi was at its weakest. There have been many incidents with Christians before, one Pastor Harbhajan Singh forcibly converted 2800 people in his village and spoke against the Gurus in the 2000s. They always used Sikh terms like satsangat for congregation and satguru for Jesus to convert naive and gullible Sikhs. We have no proactive and visionary leader left, so lets do what we can on a personal level by keeping an eye on developments in our native villages and helping the poor & Sikhi parchaar in our areas.

Oh god don't stop. If you do fight please video tape and send it on here. We can call it "Punjabi Wars 1: fight of the folds"

Having read the whole of these answers given above, none have given the correct answer. Nitnem is to be performed morning, evening and night.... all prescribed banis. When a Sikh is not doing nitnem, then you are supposed to be practising waheguru simran. If someone interrupts you, then it is easier to get back to simran as you were just repeating waheguru. This does not exclude the fact that you should be practising quiet simran too in order to form a habit of saying waheguru during the day. Our main aim is to achieve 24 7 simran.

Lol bro, we both know he isn't messaging you for some homosexual activities, but too meet and fight. Why are you two even fighting? Both Sikh in the end.

We all live in a worldly environment. To detach ones' self from is a truth that few realise. People have been so caught up in the web of maya - have the biggest house, fastest car, most beautiful spouse, best job, fame, fortune etc - that they lose sight of the goal. Hence, stepping outside of this web seems weird because everyone else is caught up, we think we should remain in the web too. Although this thread is a couple of years old, I was reading a sakhi whereby the different forms of meditation are listed: 1. Listening to gurbani with full concentration is a form of meditation 2. Doing kirtan with love is a form of meditation 3. Doing simran is a form of meditation 4. Doing seva is a form of meditation There were others but I cannot recall.

lol fat boy you flapped it just like i knew you would. Shameless is you coming on a Sikh forum asking where to buy goat meat, calling little girls donkeys, talking about gays (its obvious your gay yourself and probably perv on your step dad) and generally your the biggest clown I have ever seen on this forum. Judging by the fact you didnt reply to my inbox message confirms what i already knew, and thats your a fat p*ssy. Reply whatever you want on this, I aint got time to chat sh1t with a nobody like u

LOL check your inbox fat boy - I aint like you, comes online giving it big ones, like i said in my first message to you... step in to the real world and not just your kitchen

LOL for a fat boy whose never had a woman look twice at him you should really put a big spoon of bakra down your gob, and then shove it up your bondh like the little chichi man that you are.

INBOX ME FATBOY

LOL you say I never seen you, but you call me a skinny freak and pakora nakh, seriously geeza what kind of jaloos are you? everything i have called you is based on your dungar posts, you know the ones you write and then think you have done some kind of mahaan seva LOL. Anyways on a level you clown, cuss my mum whatever you want, but if your man - inbox me and I will happily meet you. If you reply back on this then its safe you aint no maa da puth that knows who his peh is, if you are man, inbox me.

LOL fat boy i aint the one threatening some bechara with a thappar on a Sikh forum for no reason, or coming here about your goat curry fetish or how your some big man popping 10 kids out when you aint even ever a had a woman look at u, without pitying you LOL. Yes I am 'Morally corrupt and psychologically a failure a swell as mentally and physically weak' but I am still not as bad as you LOL. Stick to munching goats and having your mummy give you a tedh malash LOL. Now unless you got something productive to add to this thread, please dont embarass yourself as per usual. Instead send me a private message and I am more than happy to meet you face to face and lets have it like men.

But he's handsome. So handsome.

Followthelight, can I please give you some friendly advice ? Next time, when you feel the urge to reply to a new thread, have a really good read of the message you're replying to. Read it well - really analyse it. Spot the signs that reveal that the poster is not who she or she says they are. Spot how the poster starts by pretending to be someone from India - calls her own family 'sikh sardar' when no actual Sikh describes themselves that way (only Hindus do) - deliberately misspells simple English words in order to show that they are a "Sikh from India" but then in subsequent sentences forgets what they were pretending to do and articulates difficult English sentences in perfect English. Starts by constructing English sentences really badly but then sometimes forgets the plan and mistakingly constructs English sentences beautifully. And then, right at the end, the Hindu boy pretending to be a Sikh girl couldn't resist his natural temptation to call Hindu boys "good looking" when both you and me know that nobody (except Hindus) in the entire history of the universe has ever called a Hindu boy "good looking". All I'm saying is try and be a little more alert. Learn how to read between the lines.

You won't be able to have an Anand Karaj as that requires two people who are commited only to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I feel sorry for you that you think marrying someone you like is the highest point of this life. You were born in a sikh family, that too amritdhari. Your children could have been sikh too, you could have led them to the house of Nanak. That same home, that gave you, a woman, the same status as man, a weapon in your hand. The house where the caste system was abolished and you were thought of as a young prince (kaur). You are throwing away this royal lineage of your children (Singh & Kaur) so that you and they can worship idols and complete rituals. If you feel okay with taking that future away from your children... well then no one can stop you.

Clearly we have taken amrit from diff places then! I wonder what the 4th bujjer kurahat is according to your type of amrit. Inevitably eating an insect is a bhul. Its an accident. It can be forgiven. Theres a diff in eating a cucumber and chopping off a dogs head and eating it.

Ajeet is likely a blinded Punjab born Sikh or Hindu. And people will go by rehat If there is good parchar, not force. Sant Ji didn't force a single soul and God knows how many people turned to Sikhi. He event kept non keshdhari/amritdhari with him, and NEVER forced them to full Gursikh. He knew what'd eventually win over them. Its unfortunate, but the Singhs did do a lot forceful <banned word filter activated> with the local populace.

Imagine you did say Hindus are a bunch of a silly clay doll worshippers, would that mean you deserve death? No. Nor do their stupid comments.

Wjkk wjkf What if neither of you were amritdhari when you got married and now you want to take amrit with the support of your wife/husband but they are not personally ready? Do you wait for them? What if waiting your time comes to an end?

One point repeatedly being made by Dhumma to justify the attack is that Dhadrianwale's verbal attack on Dhumma was a direct attack on Dam Dami Taksal. Dhumma asserts that anything said about the leader of an institution is to be taken as it being said about the institution itself. He questions how you can separate the two. This is a very flawed assertion by Dhumma. It is entirely acceptable for a leader or individual to be criticized without an institution that criticism being linked to the institution or organization they represent. This is a poor method for Dhumma to justify the attack. Using Dhumma's logic we would be smearing and disgracing the Akal Takht when we criticize Gurbachan Singh and the other Takht Jathedars for pardoning Ram Rahim and taking orders/directives from the SGPC and Badal government. Another example, Jathedar of the Akal Takht, Aroor Singh, had honoured General Dyer the person responsible for the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in Amritsar. Is what Aroor Singh did not something Sikhs should oppose? Should Aroor Singh not be condemned and criticized for his shameful behaviour? More on Aroor Singh: Not anyone would disagree with condemning Aroor Singh but by Dhumma's argument, we would be denouncing the Akal Takht at the same time. Having had so much Gurmat instruction you would think a person like Dhumma would think his arguments over to determine their sensibility. I guess not.

Source: http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/02/welcome-to-my-world/ The article sheds some light on the dealings of Jason Kenney, Canada's Minister of Citizenship, Immigration, and Multiculturalism, with the Sikh community. It also gives insight into what Minister Jason Kenney really thinks about the 1984 Sikh Genocide and the Sikh movement for Khalistan. Some parts of the article innacurately describe the details of the Vaisakhi "celebration". There were no people dancing, the "traditional Indian beat" is likely referring to the dhol used for gatka, and there was definitely no chicken present. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Last year, L’actualité, the sister publication to Maclean’s in Quebec, got unprecedented access to Canada’s Immigration Minister Jason Kenney. Chief political reporter Alec Castonguay was given a rare behind-the-scenes look at the man who is arguably most responsible for delivering the Conservatives a majority in the last federal election and who is remaking the nation’s immigration policy. This is an edited, translated version of the story that appeared in the magazine and as a L’actualité ebook. Jason Kenney scans the dense crowd of roughly 20,000 Sikh Canadians in traditional dress and multicoloured turbans here to mark Vaisakhi—the annual celebration commemorating the foundation of this community originally from India’s northeast. Sitting cross-legged on the thin grey carpeting covering the enormous stage, the minister is inwardly cringing. He doesn’t like what he sees. In front of him, a dozen yellow and blue Khalistan flags are splitting the crowd near the podium, held by men fighting the hot early May sun in T-shirts. The man at the mic, speaking Punjabi, suddenly speeds up and radicalizes his tone. He speaks of genocide, of violent clashes and of the independence of Khalistan—a country that a faction of Sikh nationalists would like to carve from India. It’s too much. Kenney, who’s picked up some Punjabi since becoming minister of citizenship, immigration and multiculturalism in 2008, stands mid-sentence, crosses the room and exits as three baffled Conservative MPs look on, unsure whether or not they should follow. At the bottom of the steps, Kenney puts his shoes back on and raises his hand as if to rip off the orange bandana that all visitors wear inside Rexdale’s Sikh Spiritual Centre. He takes a deep breath, and restrains himself. A Sikh organizer approaches, looking contrite. “You are trying to exploit my presence here,” Kenney shouts, his stare fixed on the man in a white turban. “This is not a civilized way to behave. I warned you, and you did it anyway. I am aware that you would like to entertain the Prime Minister next year. You can forget it. He won’t be coming.” The minister makes his way to the exit, the Sikh organizer fast on his heels, apologizing profusely. It had all started so well 25 minutes earlier. The party was in full swing. People sang and danced in all corners to a traditional Indian beat. Hundreds of children played in inflatable games erected along the four-lane street. Smells of spices and roast chicken tickled the nostrils. Kenney took the stage with compliments reserved for a guest of honour. At the microphone he shouted a well-timed greeting: “Bole sonai hai? Sat siri akal!” Thousands of people responded: “Sat siri akal!” (The Sikh greeting roughly translates to: “Who stands up for truth?,” to which the crowd responds, “We stand up for truth, God is the ultimate truth!”) The minister had bragged of the government’s achievements, including the creation, at the heart of the ministry of Foreign Affairs, of an office of religious freedoms to promote and defend all faiths. He highlighted that Vaisakhi is now a Canadian tradition because it is celebrated every year on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. It was after his speech, once he was seated, that the Khalistan flags suddenly appeared. At the entrance, several long minutes pass before the minister’s driver pulls up in his black Nissan SUV. As we sit down, Kenney turns to me. “I am so sorry,” he says in French. He finally pulls off his bandana and explains that Sikh nationalists are now waging their war in Canada. They hope to convince the roughly 450,000 Canadians of Sikh origin, the majority of whom live in the suburbs of Toronto and Vancouver, to put pressure on their families still in India, but also on the Canadian government, to support their demands. They want Ottawa to recognize a genocide in which Sikhs were victims, in 1984 in India. “It was an extremist speech,” he says. “I had to leave the room, otherwise the community would think I endorse such a campaign. Certain groups have sometimes tried to wield my prominence to advance their cause. I have to be vigilant at all times. They shouldn’t be encouraged to reproduce, in Canada, the tensions of their homelands.” It’s a message he reiterates to new immigrants from China and Tibet, Greece and Turkey, Israel and Iran. He glances out the window and sighs. “Welcome to my world.” He could just as easily have said “my worlds,” given how dramatically Canada’s new immigrant and multicultural canvas is growing and diversifying—it now includes almost 200 languages. More than 250,000 new immigrants arrive in Canada every year; in 2010, that number hit 280,000, the equivalent of 0.8 per cent of the population—the highest proportion of any industrialized country, followed by Great Britain and Germany (at 0.7 per cent each). Inevitably, this has brought profound political change. Kenney is at the forefront of these changes. His objective: understanding, seducing and attracting ethnic communities to the Conservative party, an electorate once taken for granted by the Liberal Party of Canada. He has shaken thousands of hands, put away hundreds of very spicy meals and pulled off his shoes an incalculable number of times in entering mosques, temples or integration centres to give speeches. His methods are old school, far removed from social networks, where human contact, proximity and the fight for values undertaken by the Conservative party have gradually won over a large number of new Canadians. In the halls of government, it is plainly acknowledged: Kenney is the architect of the Conservative majority, having worked discreetly, yet tirelessly, for the past five years to build bridges with Canada’s ethnic communities. It’s a success that Britain’s Conservative Party would like to replicate, and that the U.S. Republican party, after its electoral drubbing in November, is cautiously eyeing. It’s meticulous work, long and complex. With the patience of a Buddhist monk, the minister has had to figure out the subtleties of every community and learn its traditions in order to navigate competing demands and interests. It was no accident that after Justin Trudeau formally declared his intention to run for Liberal leader last October, his first destinations were Richmond, B.C., and Mississauga, Ont., two cities with heavy immigrant populations. Both had been Liberal ridings conquered by the Conservatives. In their way, Kenney, 44, and Trudeau, 40, represent the future of their parties. And as they fight on this same battlefield, Kenney is putting everything on the line . He could become the next leader of the Canadian conservative movement. Kenney’s longevity and the scope of his reforms have surprised experts. “Immigration generally gets inherited by a junior minister with no real presence, anxious to trade up for a better cabinet post,” says Stephan Reichhold, director of an immigrant support network in Quebec. “Kenney is practically a deputy prime minister. He has been there for four years and has undertaken an unending number of reforms. Some are good, others are very ideological.” Not bad for a guy who was barely interested in the politics of immigration before 2006 and wanted nothing to do with that role in cabinet. The young Alberta MP had even refused the role of immigration critic when the Tories were in opposition. “I saw the enormous pressure and the very delicate handling of complex politics the job required. Even when we took power, I wanted to run screaming when the Prime Minister talked to me about it,” Kenney recalls. Stephen Harper convinced him with an argument that resonated: the very future of the conservative movement in Canada depended on it. Just before forming his first cabinet in early 2006, Harper met with Kenney in a hotel suite in Ottawa. “Do you remember the conversation we had in October 1994?” he asked. Kenney remembered it perfectly. On that chilly fall day, the Reform party congress had just wrapped up in the capital and Harper, a newly elected MP of just 35, was sipping a beer at the Royal Oak Pub on Bank Street when Kenney went over to him. The two men knew each other because Kenney, despite his 26 years, was already heading the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. Kenney laid out his theory: the division of the conservative movement between the Reform party and the Progressive Conservative party wasn’t the right’s only problem. “Even with a united right,” he said, “conservatism has peaked. Votes are becoming stagnant.” Conservatives, he added, would have to cross the “final frontier”: that of immigrants. “Look at demographic trends—it’s the future. Immigrants have the same values as us, we have to talk to them, to convince them.” Harper, skeptical, responded that this very liberal segment of the population would never vote Conservative. Better, in his opinion, to focus on native-born Canadians. When, 12 years later, Harper took power at the helm of a minority government, he proposed that Kenney pursue the mission that he had defined, without quite realizing it, beer in hand, in an Ottawa bar. “Prove to me that I was wrong,” the Prime Minister challenged him. He named him prime minister’s parliamentary secretary and secretary of state for multiculturalism, with a double mandate. The first, more political role requires that he make sure new immigrants integrate well. “People have to be able to conserve their identity as they are becoming integral parts of Canada,” Harper told him. “Multiculturalism cannot lead to the ghettoization of immigrants.” The other mandate is partisan: becoming the link between the government and cultural communities in order to increase the party’s odds of success in the next election. Kenney came to understand the magnitude of the task in March 2006, during one of his first meetings in his new role. A leader from the Korean community of Vancouver, a respected doctor, squarely asked him why Conservatives are racist and anti-immigration. Surprised, Kenney shot back that it was former prime minister John Diefenbaker who eliminated racial discrimination in the selection of immigrants, in 1962. Then he launched into a speech about the values they share: family, a strong work ethic, the fight against criminality. The Korean listened to him for a few minutes, then interrupted him. If the Korean community had voted for the NDP and the Liberals in Vancouver, he said, it was because those MPs helped immigrants settle and find housing. They became the face of Canadian authority. “Elected officials take part in our celebrations, they’re present in our media.” For Kenney, a light went on. “It woke me up,” he says. “I understood that I would have to be everywhere at all times. Personal contact is crucial for new immigrants.” Ever since then, the minister has been on the road three weekends out of four. Some Sundays, in Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal, he takes part in as many as 20 cultural activities, starting at dawn in a temple and ending in darkness at a partisan reception. “In the last election campaign, I’d done so many that I became confused: I bowed to the wrong God in a church. I looked completely ridiculous,” he admits, laughing. He only spends one day a month in his home riding of Calgary Southeast, which he’s represented since 1997. That didn’t stop him from being re-elected in 1997 with 76 per cent of the vote and a crushing lead of 42,000 votes—one of the country’s best results. “My voters understand that I work for the Conservative cause and that I have a full schedule,” Kenney says. It’s a rhythm he manages to maintain, but it doesn’t stop him from bottoming out from time to time. “When I see the weekend arrive with 20 or 25 scheduled events—not counting travel—I sometimes feel a profound fatigue take over. I have to motivate myself by thinking that every gesture will count over the long term,” he says. It’s also a physical challenge. “People from the communities like to touch you, to embrace you, to hug you, and physical contact isn’t my strong suit.” The minister has neither wife nor children. He shares his home in Alberta with his mom, Lynne, and has little time for friends or a love life. Those closest to him, however, don’t describe him as a loner. And he makes it a point to organize one or two receptions per year at his condo in Ottawa for his colleagues in government and Tory staffers. Building a trusting relationship between the government and immigrant communities has fast become Kenney’s priority. Six to 10 times per year, his team organizes “friendship days” on the Hill, where leaders from cultural communities—spiritual leaders, heads of community centres, presidents of ethnic chambers of commerce, etc.—can arrange to meet ministers of their choosing. “It gives a chance for the communities to be heard at the highest level in Ottawa, and they appreciate the gesture,” says Agop Evereklian, who was Kenney’s chief of staff from 2008 to 2010 and, until recently, chief of staff to former Montreal mayor Gerald Tremblay. That access, however, makes teeth grind on the Hill. “They receive unfair treatment—effectively unofficial lobbying,” says one civil servant who requested anonymity. The Kenney team has established itself as cabinet’s go-to brain trust on ethnic communities. They coordinate all the Prime Minister’s press releases to highlight different cultural holidays (Diwali, Vaisakhi, Yom Kippur, Chinese New Year). The apology and financial compensation for the Chinese head tax and the official recognition of the Armenian and Ukrainian genocides were also handled by Kenney. “He acts as a conductor to correct historical wrongs,” says Evereklian. “It might not seem important to the majority of the population, but for the concerned communities, it’s huge.” In 2008, Kenney put in place the Community Historical Recognition Program, with a $13.5-million budget to finance commemorative projects and the erection of statues to honour key historical figures. Italian, Jewish, Indian and Chinese communities have all profited abundantly from it. Kenney insisted that all his cabinet colleagues integrate into their inner circles Canadians of immigrant stock. His own staff is one of the most multi-ethnic, with political assistants in all the big cities who make connections with community leaders. It’s a veritable spiderweb that captures information in the field and transmits it to Ottawa every day. The minister follows news first-hand by closely following the ethnic media, which he has translated and reads every morning as he wakes up. “I look at it before I read the national papers,” he says. Kenney flips through a Chinese-Canadian newspaper he bought at a corner store en route to an event in Toronto. He asks his driver, who is of Chinese descent, to translate a few headlines and practises saying in Mandarin: “Hello, I am the minister of immigration.” His driver gives a full-throated laugh and tries to correct the accent of the minister, who is also enjoying himself. “Don’t you go making me look like an <banned word filter activated>,” Kenney says. “I’m counting on you.” The minister’s car stops in front of the Lucky Moose Food Mart on Dundas Street. A two-foot-tall pink moose guards the entrance. In 2009, the store made headlines when its owner, David Chen, took justice into his own hands when he caught a shoplifter red-handed. After a scuffle, he tied him up before calling police. The thief filed assault charges. The NDP and Conservatives took the opportunity to draft a bill to permit store owners to use “reasonable force” against intruders without facing charges. Today, photographers and journalists from the community wait for Kenney. He greets them in Mandarin, and buys a bottle of water and two more Chinese papers. He shakes Chen’s hand. Flashing cameras capture the moment. “We have kept our word,” he says. “We passed your bill into law.” Chen, who speaks broken English, contents himself with a smile. Later, Kenney tells me: “That story made a lot of noise in the Chinese press in Canada. That’s where I first heard about it.” From 2006 to 2011, the number of Canadians who speak Mandarin jumped 51 per cent. There are now three daily papers published in the language in the country, not to mention TV news programs, weekly magazines and websites. There is similar growth with every ethnic community, be they Indian, Korean, Ukrainian or Filipino. “Previously, the Conservative party was completely absent,” Kenney says. He turns the page of the newspaper, where he sees a photo of NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair at an event with the Chinese community in Richmond, in suburban Vancouver. “He seems to understand that this is important,” Kenney notes. In the downtown Toronto riding of Trinity-Spadina, with its significant immigrant population, the minister is greeted by honking horns as he walks the sidewalk. People stop to talk to him. A woman in her 20s insists he is as well-known in the Chinese community as Justin Bieber. “I can walk for hours in Calgary without being recognized, but not here,” he says. Olivia Chow, the local New Democrat MP and widow of Jack Layton, admits that Kenney’s work forces MPs from other parties in ridings with sizable immigrant populations to “watch their backs.” “He’s a political animal,” she says. “He’s always there at the right moment, and his photo winds up in the papers.” In Kenney’s office, everything is carefully planned. Less than a month before the last election campaign, his director of multicultural affairs, Kasra Nejatian, sent a letter to MPs and Conservative operatives asking them to quickly collect $200,000 for an ethnic media ad buy. With a total value of $378,000, it had to launch March 20, 2011, the date of the first match in the Cricket World Cup, a popular event in Asia. Attached to the mailout was a 21-page document titled: “Breaking through: Building the Conservative brand in cultural communities.” Aimed at the Chinese, Jewish, Ukrainian and South Asian communities, the document outlined the Conservative strategy. “If Greater Toronto’s South Asians formed their own city, it would be the third-largest city in the country,” it read. The take-away points were neatly summed up: “There are lots of ethnic voters. There will be quite a few more soon. They live where we need to win.” Once charmed, the document added, ethnic communities could stay loyal for a very long time. Ten “very ethnic” ridings—where immigrants represent more than 20 per cent of the population—were targeted in pre-election Conservative advertising: four in Ontario, four in B.C., one in Quebec and one in Manitoba. On election day, May 2, the Conservative party won seven of them. The partisan document was printed on the official letterhead of Kenney’s ministry office—a point that drives New Democrat MP Pat Martin crazy. In this, he sees the perfect example of a government that has forgotten its neutrality and has thrown itself into serving the party’s political machine. “They violated all the rules in using government resources to solicit money for a party campaign,” says Martin. “It’s shocking. The minister should have resigned over it.” Certain colleagues compare Kenney to a beaver, not just because of his slightly round frame or his patriotism but because he never stops working. By the time his assistants get to the office at 7 a.m., the minister is already there. And at 8 p.m., when they head home, Kenney leaves the Hill and heads to Laurier Street in downtown Ottawa, to his second office at the Immigration ministry. He heads to the 21st floor, closes the door, plugs his iPod into the stereo and listens to classical music or Gregorian chants as he reads his files, which are sometimes delicate—notably cases where a person is being deported from the country and he has the power to authorize a reprieve. It’s generally during this second phase of his workday that he receives a call from 24 Sussex Drive. The Prime Minister often takes a few minutes, late in the night, to consult with Kenney (neither man sleeps much). The minister rarely heads home to his condo before midnight. Devoted to his work, at ease with media (he is one of few anglophone ministers to give interviews in French), Kenney has gradually become one of Ottawa’s most influential ministers, along with John Baird at Foreign Affairs and Jim Flaherty at Finance. He sits on the cabinet committee on priorities and planning, the only committee to meet weekly to formulate government strategy. “He is one of very few ministers to command Harper’s total faith,” says a source close to them both. The Toronto Marathon is paralyzing traffic this day, annoying Kenney, who likes to keep his schedule rolling. “Push back all appointments by 20 minutes, otherwise we’ll never make it,” he tells his assistant. The car moves at a snail’s pace as we cross Parkdale-High Park, one of Hogtown’s most important immigrant landing grounds. Through the window, the minister takes the time to show me around the disadvantaged riding represented by New Democrat Peggy Nash. He knows these communities, and their habits, by heart. There, a Vietnamese community centre; here, a Polish Catholic Church; there, two Romas pushing a shopping cart. All along King Street, it’s a Canada belonging to new immigrants and refugees, often disoriented and troubled. He pulls out the previous day’s Globe and Mail, which launched a series on immigration. The article states that Canada should be admitting one million new immigrants per year—four times what it now admits—to fuel economic growth. “That’s insanity,” says Kenney. “You need to allow people time to integrate. They need good salaries, good-quality jobs, not just quantity.” Above all, you need to consider perceptions, he adds, citing a recent Angus Reid poll that showed nearly one Canadian out of two (46 per cent) believes that immigration has a negative effect on the country—a five-point jump in a year. Almost 39 per cent of respondents believe immigration should stay at current levels, and 38 per cent think it should be reduced. “I need to assure myself that Canadians continue to have confidence in the system,” he says. “Immigration is an asset, but prejudices run deep. Opening the floodgates won’t help new Canadians.” Does Kenney have ambitions to succeed Harper? Among Conservative activists and party faithful, there is no doubt: Kenney will be waiting in the wings. His bilingualism and the formidable network he’s built at the heart of ethnic communities will be his greatest assets. Another indication of his intentions: he’s established a vast database to keep in contact with activists. A few times a year, they receive an email from Kenney outlining his achievements. Evereklian wouldn’t be surprised if Kenney took a run at the top job. “But he will never talk about it,” he says. “If anyone brings it up in his presence, he gets angry and puts the person in their place.” In an interview, Kenney carefully qualifies his answer, without closing the door. “I’m too busy to think about it. In Stephen Harper, we have the most efficient leader the conservative movement has ever seen, and he will be there a long time. It’s not possible for me to be good at my work if I think of that.” On a hot afternoon, in an industrial park in Mississauga, Kenney has been listening for more than 30 minutes to a dull speech from a Buddhist priest, sitting on the ground in the tiny Mahadhammika Temple of the Burmese community—which welcomes 500 refugees to Toronto every year. The minister finally gets up, a knowing smile spreading across his face. He starts by highlighting that Canada spent $35 million in 2010 to help Burma rebuild after a horrific typhoon. He repeats that Aung San Suu Kyi, celebrated figure of Burma’s democrats, was named an honorary Canadian by the Harper government. And then he delivers the goods: in his car, on the way to the temple, Kenney approved the refugee status of Burmese opposition leader Ler Wah Lo Bo, who arrived in Canada in 2002, but whose status was uncertain because of his contentious past in Burma. Screams and clapping shake the small prayer room, which is better used to Buddhist calm. Later, back in the car, Kenney notes the Conservatives won 24 of 25 suburban Toronto ridings: “Without the support of the ethnic communities, we could never have done that.” The Conservatives estimate that they captured 42 per cent of the country’s ethnic vote last election—more than 30 per cent of their total vote, and more than any other party. “I have no intention of stopping now.” A source close to the Prime Minister admits that the day after the election, many believed Kenney would change ministries and be given a promotion for his service to the cause. But the idea never crossed Harper’s mind. “He had too many important reforms under way, and the message sent to the cultural communities would be all wrong. After having courted and then obtained their vote, we take away their champion? No.” Although he sometimes wishes for a change of scene and a new challenge, Kenney refuses to complain. The minister feels the Conservative cause needs his efforts. After 15 minutes on the road, the car nears yet another event. Multicoloured turbans are more and more numerous. He starts listing the cities in suburban Toronto and Vancouver: Brampton, Mississauga, Richmond, Surrey, Etobicoke. A big part of the 30 seats that will be added to the House by the next election, in 2015, will come from these rapidly growing, increasingly multi-ethnic regions. He smiles. “It should be very good for us,” he says, taking a step toward the turbans.

Truth is eternal. The times change. Circumstances change. Truth remains enduring, ever applicable.

WJKK WJKF This has prob been answered to death previously but i couldnt find anything using the search.. My kesh have pretty much fallen out and left me bald and im only in my 20's!!! For the remaining of my hair lol - after wearing a dastaar all day and getting home can i leave my hair in a jhoora at home or should it still be covered? Bhul chuk maaf