Jonny101

While what you say is true, but you must also take into consideration that those Gianis have families to raise. I don't mind seeing Gianis getting paid, but they should be genuine Sikhs. Ideally what should be the case is that a Giani who does this as a profession should first and foremost have Sikhi in his heart. He should be a real rehetvaan Singh who should be a combination of a knowledgeable Giani plus a Bhagat who does a lot of Bhagti. What I don't support is a Giani or Kirtani who is in it simply for the money and has no love for Sikhi. I have seen such examples of former kirtanis who once they get pakke in the west they even end up cutting their hairs.

All of Sant Jee's speeches(political ones) have been written down. In fact, they have also been translated into English. I've read the English translation about 10 years ago online. His speeches written in Punjabi are also on scribd. I don't have the links with me anymore, but I've read them for sure.

I remember reading from a website some years ago called Amritworld. The Singh who runs that site had proven all of Niddar Singh's points wrong.

Niddar? the last sikh warrior my a$$

NO! the so called Sanatan Sikhi is an extreme attempt to Hinduise Sikhi. While all religions are great, including Hinduism. But Sikhi is the teesar Panth. It is Nyara. Sanatan Sikhi has been made popular(more like infamous) by Niddar and his crew. These Sanatanist Sikhs try to include Hindu rituals and beliefs into the Sikh faith. They try to blur the religious boundaries between Sikhism and Hinduism to the extent where Sikhism is no longer discernible from the Hindu faith.

Great find!

Very true. Until the time we get our own Desh independent again, we need to stick together as a community. Sikhs are a nationless nation much like the way Jews were before the creation of Israel. It is equally true that without a nation to call our own, we cannot hope for proper protection. India, despite being a growing economic power has shown that it will not speak up for the Sikhs, especially when we have had issues being raised in regards to the turban and kirpan in places like france and Canada.

It is their sense of community. They always prefer to give favour to their fellow Jew over a non Jew. being a minority, they have done pretty good for themselves. Sikhs should also begin to think about their own.

Look at that picture. Darshan Lal is a living contradiction. On one hand he and his Kala Afghani gang does parchar against Naam Simran, but at the same time he is wearing a Mala. As we all know a Mala is used for Naam Simran. Why is he wearing a Mala when he doesn`t even beleive in the concept of doing jaap of the Gurmantar? the answer is obvious. He wants to fool the general Sikh masses showing them that he is such a big Bhagti karn wala with that Mala. How is this hypocrite any different from the Radhasoami Guru who keeps a Dastar and full beard yet does not beleive in the concept of Dastar and keeping Kesh. People like Darshan Lal are really shameless.

this is just a form of idol worshiping. It is a deviation from Gurmat.

I feel this is also a huge lie. Not just this, but many times we find the police finding RDX just in time. It is not uncommon for the police to use these false flag operations just to gain more funding and increase their unconstitutional powers. Google the term `false flag`.

What we have read in Maj. Gen M. Khan's account of the battle is only a chapter in the long history of Sikh warriors. Since the 6th Guru's Sikhs to the recent Sikh Kharkoo movement we have many examples of Sikhs fighting to the end even when the Sikh knows he is fighting a battle he cannot win he will still go on fighting only to attain Shaheedi.

Darshan of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee does not count?

We need to realize a very simple fact that is a part of every Sikh. That fact is: we are a nationless nation! We are a nation that has no geographical country that we can proudly call our own. In such a situation, it is important that we stand up for our people and work for the upliftment/promotion of the Sikh people. Secondly, if we will not stand up or uplift our people then who else will? do you think the Hindus/Christians/Muslims will help the Sikhs? It's not gonna happen. We need to do everything we can do in our power to help promote the Sikh people. If it is in our hands to open a production plant in Punjab or South India, we as dutiful Sikhs should firstly always choose Punjab.

He will be missed in the world of music

I'm with West London Singh on this. It is surprising that Mr Tulli who is obviously a religious Sikh would choose to set up a production plant in South India instead of Punjab. By building a plant in Punjab, it would have put Punjab on the map for investors looking to investing in India. So many NRI Gujaratis prefer to invest in Gujarat and have made Gujarat the envy of the rest of India. It is sad that Sikhs like Mr Tulli who have the power to do such things for Punjab are doing nothing. Take the Jewish example. A Jew will most probably always prefer giving his people a favour over a non Jew. Sikhs need to adopt such a mindset because we are a nationless nation. If we don't do things in favour of the Sikh Qaum then who else will?

Some Amritdharis may feel that way, and it's not surprising either. A dutiful parent would only want the best for their children. What parent would want their children to follow the Manmukh ways of the world and get beaten by Jamdoots after their soul leaves the body? For a Gursikh parent, cutting hair is just as bad as their children drinking sharaab, doing drugs, eating meat and other manmukh stuff. Unfortunately many young Amritdharis who feel they are being forced or pressured into Sikhi wont understand unless they are in the shoes of their parents. A good Gursikh parent will never want their children to follow a manmat lifestyle and suffer the Karmic consequences. When a person is young (teens-20s), one is more vulnerable to manmat. The influence of Kalyug is very strong at that age. It is not abnormal for a young person to feel like cutting hairs, indulge in Kaam, try drugs or just to fit in with the crowd. The key is to remain strong no matter what. It is all about mind over matter at that age. Gursikh-Sangat at that age is extremely important. But once a Gursikh passes that age, they will feel less and less the influence of Kalyug.

Copying is another way of seeing it. But within the Sikh dharm, havan is an innovation since the Gurus did not do Havan or ask their Sikhs to do Havan. Bro, you and me are on the same page as far as this unnecessary ritual is concerned. I am not in favour of innovations or deviations that have crept up amongst the Sikhs over the centuries. UnSikh practices such as Havans, Shraads, observance of Pooranmashi have no place in Sikh dharam.

When I said innovation I meant religious innovation. A religious innovation is an invention of a new method of worshiping God which was not originally started by a founder of the religion. In our case, Havan is a religious innovation which is not a Guru created ritual.

Doing havan is not Guru created tradition but only an innovation. Doing Naam Simran, Gurbani Paath, keeping rehet and doing seva are the greatest duties a Sikh can perform.

What an amazing mother. May Vaheguru bless her.

I think when a Sikh says Krishan is an Avtar of Vaheguru he should be clear as to what type of avtar. About a year ago I was listening to Giani Takhur Singh jee's Japji Sahib katha. Near the starting he mentions the many different types of Avtars. The ultimate of those Avtars was in the form of Guru Sahib who took birth as Guru Nanak Dev Jee. Then there are lower levels of Avtars such as Krishan. Even great GurSikhs are sent by Guru Jee and they are called Nit-Avtars. All of these Avtars with their various levels come down to earth for the protection of Dharm. As for havans, I don't think Guru Jee performed havans or worshiped Shakti. Havans seem to have started at a later date and seem like an innovation that has crept up within the Sikhs if Sikhs perform this.

That is the Shahi Imam of Delhi.

OSingh has done a praiseworthy job in defending Jaap Sahib and Sikh traditions. His arguments can be used by us if we ever find ourselves face to face with a Kala Afghani. In fact, after reading the entire thread, I'm actually quite impressed by OSingh's method of debating with them. He has clearly won the debate even though he was all alone against multiple Kala Afghanis including a clearly bias admin. I have saved that whole debate on my computer for future reference. Good job OSingh Jee. Also, for all Singhs interested I would advice them to please read and study the book by Giani Harbans Singh Jee on Sri Dasam Granth. He has proven wrong point by point Ambala who was a predecessor heretic to Kala Afghana. Giani Harbans Singh Jee is no ordinary scholar, he has translated all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. He is also an authority on Viakaran and has written a pretty good book on the subject.

I should have also included Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha in the list of scholars to quote from since his words are also considered authoritative by these heretics and Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha was a believer in Dasam Bani and Sikh traditions that these heretics discard. I think the main reason why these heretics use the name of Singh Sabha scholars like Prof Sahib Singh, Prof Gurmukh Sahib, Giani Ditt Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha is because these scholars have an authoritative status from amongst the Sikh intellectuals, Sikh leaders and general Sikh population. This is probably the reason why they also like to use the name of Sant Jarnail Singh bhindranwalay even though he was associated with the Bindran Taksal Sampradah which these heretics love to hate. So the words of these authoritative figures should be extensively used to show the general Sikh population and people brainwashed by them that these Kala Afghanis are nothing but heretics who have nothing in common with the authoritative figures they pretend to associate their ideology with. Youtube videos and articles/pamphlets in this regard should be produced and massively distributed all over. In the field of propaganda, these Kala Afghanis are ahead of us. We need to catch up and eventually surpass them in their own game.