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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH You mean the one titled: "The Episode About the (Goddess) Kali’s Sacrificial Offering"...right. Bhai Rattan Singh here is stating that Baba Banda Singh declared that Guru Sahib made deals with Durga/Kali and behaved no better than the Hindus who sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to satisfy Kali? That Baba Banda Singh was a maniac who told the Sikhs to slaughter houseflies (???) to meet the totals that he committed. Forgive me for not taking this seriously. WarriorSinghUK - that may be a sign to be more careful. Generally speaking, trying to maintain bladed weapons (polishing/sharpening and the like) will put you at much higher risk of getting cut. Just saying. Now, how does this reconcile for me, who is a gun owner and does not anoint any weapons (not to mention a multitude of bladed weapons at home). Will the guns shoot me to extract blood (I have a few, so we are talking about a lethal scenario here)? I am being serious here. Have there been episodes of people being shot with their own guns because they did not donate blood to their guns? I have trouble believing this, given the prevalence of gun owners in the area (many of which are Sikhs and do not anoint their weapons with any sort of blood) and lack of any accidental discharges resulting in blood being shed. Guns are shastars per Shastar Naam Malaa and, therefore, would qualify for this blood donation per the Shastar Maryada correct? Any other references for analysis - please submit. If this is an established and integral part of Sikh practice, there must be multiple, Sikhi based references in support of it, so please submit. Here is the translation text of the relevant excerpt from Sri Gur Panth Parkash and some bold-text highlights for your attention - you can read it at http://sikhinstitute.org/gpp_v1.pdf: Then Banda Singh made another revelation, That he had intended to slaughter one lakh and a quarter lives. Since he could not meet the intended target, The balance of those sacrificed offerings needed to be cleared. (1) As the Guru had intended to offer one crore and a quarter sacrifices, The Khalsa Panth had to clear that backlog of sacrificial deaths. The Goddess Kali would only be satiated and propitiated, After the promised number of (Singhs) were slaughtered in war. (2) The Goddess Kali failing to be propitiated had destroyed, Prithvi Raj Chauhan even though he had sacrificed twenty five lac soldiers. The goddess Kali was invoked by Prophet Mohammed for initiating his religion, But she devoured prophet’s progeny as well (for deficient propitiation). (3) Anyone who invokes her without propitiating her fully, Fails to escape her wrath (after partial propitiation). (But) One who invokes her and satiates her sacrificial craving, She bestows prosperity on him as well as on his progeny. (4) Dohra : The Gods had invoked and appeased her in Satyuga3 , Whereupon they had happily witnessed her blessings. Lord Rama4 had satiated and appeased her in Treta Yuga, Who, along with his whole dynasty, received her blessings. (5) The Pandavas5 invoked the Goddess in the age of Duapar, And offered the sacrificial (blood) to her heart’s content. They had satiated and appeased not only the goddess, But her whole progeny as well (with the blood of their brethren). (6) Neither is it advisable to invoke Goddess Kali’s blessings, Nor can her invocation be dispensed with for solving one’s problems. Whosoever succeeds in satiating and appeasing the goddess, Ends up becoming an all powerful and mighty sovereign. (7) Chaupai: Since no body could invoke and satiate her in Kaliyuga, She devoured them since they failed to satiate her. I (Banda Singh) had intended to propitiate her through sacrifices of Singhs, But sparing the Singhs she had recoiled upon him instead. (8) Dohra : Then Banda Singh instructed the (pleading) Singhs, That they should accomplish his (unfinished task). They must offer as many sacrifices of (living) heads, As remained in balance to square up the one lakh and a quarter figure. (9) Chaupai : The Singhs, following the instructions of Banda Singh, Slaughtered all the horses and camels to meet that target. For the rest, they slaughtered all the dogs and cats, Which had gathered there to feed on the carcasses. (10) Even then these sacrificial deaths fell short of the targetted figure, When the head count was taken for the promised figure. Then Banda Singh instructed the Singhs for more sacrifices, By killing houseflies to complete the figure of one lakh and a quarter. (11) (After such ridiculous instructions), manypeople started feeling, As if Banda Singh lost his balance and had gone mad. While some followed Banda Singh’s instruction in all sincerity, Others deserted his company feeling astonished at his wits. (12) The Singhs, who were devout, faithful and true to their salt, They declared to sacrifice their lives along with their leader. While some felt no justification in deserting their leader, Others deserted post haste without seeking anybody’s advice. (13)

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Baba Ji, Maryada "Pehla To" Bahut Chalia Aa Rahi Aan, Kai Galt Vi Si. There was "Maryada" back in the day for having Moortian in Harmandir Sahib, there was "Maryada" back in the day to have Brahmins doing Sikh weddings too (Maryada here means practices that were ongoing without any Sikhi based support). It is well documented in Suraj Parkash that the Sikhs would constantly question Guru Sahib on why things are what they are and Guru Sahib would answer the Sikhs. We are not a sheep community - our God given job is to ask. If we are stuck doing things that have no meaning or application to Sikhi, then we are no better than the others in this world who continue to do things without meaning and Guru Sahib condemned and did parchar against in their lives and continue to do so in Gurbani. If Taksal is Puratan as Nihung Singhs and have a direct opposition to Jhatka and similar processes, then someone has to ask the questions. It especially does not help when you see Hindus doing the same Jhatka and Hindus in Nepal anointing their newly made weapons from a recently killed animal. You do realize that this makes us look very close to Hindus, which Sikhism is not? Sant Hardev Singh gave an example of Sant Jwala Singh Harkhowal - when a Sikh questioned why a coconut was placed in the presence of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, he responded that when the Gurgaddi was passed on, it was done so with a coconut and 5 paise, hence the coconut being present. There was reason given and after hearing that, I would fully advocate for any Sikh to place a coconut (and heck, add 5 paise) in the hazoori of Guru Sahib. It would not be an empty ritual. However, killing an animal for its blood to anoint Shastars does not have such an explanation provided, especially given the context that thousands of goats are slaughtered in the name of Sikhi, when blood could also be exacted in justice from the killers of Sikhs who roam free and are not even on the radar (and some directly complicit with) of those who would perform Chatka. If Chatka was to practice a killing blow, what are you practicing it for all this time and not implementing? I fully appreciate that if one was to eat meat and did Chatka with Maryada (Chandi Di Vaar and killing blow on the last lines), fine. But why the blood on weapons? What is the reason?

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH If Shastar need blood, why not Chatka a bunch of Punjab Police or others responsible for killing thousands of Sikhs instead of goats? This concept I have never gotten. Also, is this Maryada defined in any sort of Rehatnama or Bani (not random historical writing - history also quotes that Maharaja Ranjit Singh and many of his soldiers drank - that is not authority for Sikhs to drink). Practices needs to be somewhat defined by Rehatnamae and Rehatnamae need to pass the test of Gurbani.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Dastaar is a mandated Hukam from Guru Sahib (52 Hukams from Nander Sahib). And unfortunately, it is not uncommon for parents to express initial apprehension to the Dastaar. Give them time, patience and do not fight back. If they ask, politely respond that it is Guru Sahib's Hukam. Your parents love you and will come around and accept you for you. Also understand that you have new parents - Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Mata Sahib Kaur Ji - you also want to make sure you keep them happy. You were inspired correctly to wear the Dastaar and should take pride in that you are keeping a Rehat of Gursikhs like Mata Bhag Kaur. Do not retract from this but rather carry forward, knowing that Guru Sahib is with you at all times.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Good question - still have no answer. Some state that they simply use 4 x the volume. One Sikh stated that the water weight 3.2 x another ingredient (cannot remember), so they used 3 x. I am still looking for the appropriate reference where it says 4 x and I cannot find it. I asked the same here: http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,32125,32127#msg-32127 The website's recipe is here: http://www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=342 The intent was to ask for the reference, read for myself to see what exactly is implied by the reference to determine the water content.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH "What is the easiest way to getting re-born in a Sikh family, like a short cut? " Pay the guy at the door... :biggrin2: Seriously though, read up on Sant Attar Singh Mastuana's life and specifically about his mother, who passed away and was not allowed to go to (Sachkhand/mukhti - forgot term, doing this from memory) by Dharam Raaj. She had done immense seva and bhagti, but was unable to proceed to liberation as she was not Amritdhari. She was returned to the world, administered Amrit and then was able to proceed to her final destination. That's IF you had done immense seva and bhagti. Those others who have not are liable to Dharam Raaj and his jamdoots for a very long beatdown and reincarnation cycle to continue.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Many in Greece, through the recent economic recession that hit them hard, has turned to a very racist slant. They formed a recent political party (Golden Dawn) which is quite racist and targeting immigrants to blame for their woes (very Nazi-esque). All immigrant communities in Greece would do well to remain very vigilant.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Yeah...everyone wait for XXX Singh/Kaur or YYY Avtar to come and save them. First, if any Gursikh came back to the world/from hiding/alternate dimension/Costco/Kmart/Tesco's (Sant Baba Maha Harnam Singh Ji/Sant Jarnail Singh Ji included and for examples), can you imagine the conversation. Let's pretend the Sikh is surrounded by other Sikhs in the below conversation. Sikh: Baba Ji, you have returned to us!! (Sikhs look on with wide smiles and hopes in their hearts). Baba Ji: Yes, Gursikho - by the Hukam of Akaal Purakh, I have returned. Sikh: BOLE SO NIHAAL!!! LEAD US TO SACHKHAND AND ESTABLISH KHALSA RAAJ!!! (Other Sikhs join in on Jakara). Baba Ji: Uhhh...ok...(puzzled at the enthusiasm) Gurmukho, how have you maintained your Sikhi? Have you kept Rehat? Are you getting up at Amritvela? Do you do Simran/Nitnem/seva? How about the other Sikhs around you? Sikh: (Sikhs nervously look around at each other)...BABA JI...SAVE US!! WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR RETURN!! Baba Ji: Answer the question! What have you been doing since I was not here? Have you done Sehaj Paath? Something? Sikh: (Sikhs lower their gaze to the ground) No Ji. We awaited your return and now that you are here (hopeful looks return), EVERYTHING IS FIXED. BOLE SO... . Baba Ji: (Interrupts Jakara). So...you haven't done ANYTHING since I left? Sikh: Well...I mean we went to Gurudwara, had langar and talked about your arrival...(Sikhs murmur to each other). Baba Ji: So...you don't get up at Amritvela, don't keep Rehat and don't do any Paath/Seva? Sikh: ...well...no...I mean I personally try to get up at Amritvela and fall asleep, I do Nitnem when I do get up and I go to Nagar Keertans...(more murmurings and general agreement with the Sikh's statement). Baba Ji: ??? So instead of following the Hukam of the Punj Pyare and Gurbani, which tell you to be a better Sikh and improving your own lives, you...waited for MY ARRIVAL??? YOU HAVE THE EVER PRESENT ETERNAL GURU THIS ENTIRE TIME!!! WHAT AM I COMPARED TO GURU SAHIB??? YOU HAVE ALL TEN GURUS PRESENT WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES AND YOU ARE DEPENDING ON HIS POOR SIKH TO LEAD YOU TO SACHKHAND AND KHALSA RAAJ? Sikh: ...but Baba Ji...you have returned...so and so Bhai Sahib said you would come back... Baba Ji: Oh Gursikha - the Guru is the same, the Punj Pyare are the same, the Sun is the same, the moon is the same, but how the Sikh has changed. Where the true Gursikhs would rely upon the Guru and maintain the Rehat given to them by the Punj Pyare, there are now many who would forsake all of that and wait for another to arrive and fix everything. Guru Kirpa Karan... <Awkward silence follows. Baba Ji goes off doing Mool Mantar Jaap and gets ready to do evening Nitnem.> Words of Sant Hardev Singh (Loolo Vale): Sangat Ji, we talk of Bhai Suthra, who had Darshan of 4 Guru Sahiban. We talk of Baba Buddha, who had Darshan of 6 Guru Sahiban. But how unlucky are we that we have the Darshan of ALL TEN Guru Sahiban here in the Gurudwara and we do not understand it. Sikhi was meant to take the lowest of the low and make them highest of the high, to where the Guru gave his very image to his Sikhs and praised them through his own compositions. Don't rely on others to do what you yourself have to do.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Bhai Sahib Jasbir Singh Khalsa used to have principles of doing parchar. The one that I actually remember was "Elaakae Di Sambhaal" - managing your are. Our concept of parchar is somewhat backward. We have this expectation that some great leader will emerge and save the Panth in one fell swoop. While the Almighty is certainly capable of doing that (and anything), we have to understand that the sustained, continuous effort goes from the smallest unit upwards. Each step below will impact the next step. Completely agree: It all starts from home (and yourself). 1) Self - sort yourself out - Mun Jeetai, Jug Jeet - if you are able to control your own mind, you can conquer the world. While this is a VERY HIGH state to totally conquer the mind, your own adherence to Sikhi - being an Amritdhari Gursikh, following Rehat and Gurbani, is key to having an impact on family. 2) Family - if you, as a family, make a concerted effort to support each other, you will establish a fortress of Sikhi in your own home. Bhai Gurdas Sahib says that 1 Sikh is a Sikh, 2 Sikhs are Sadh Sangat and 5 are Punji Parmeshwar. Even if just husband and wife, your efforts to support each other will stand as an example to the community. 3) Sikh Community - as your family works in the local Sikh community, you stand as a beacon by which the community can be inspired. Simply going to the Gurudwara, sitting in Sangat and being a Sikh will inspire others. Do seva in the Gurudwara, participate in the Paath, Keertan, be involved in community service. 4) Inter-community - various local communitiy events - nagar keertans, Keertan divans, Akhand Paaths - your Gursikh community, by attending events together. The local Gursikh community can be an inspiration for other communities and drive forth their desires to become better Gursikhs. Notwithstanding Gurudwara committees and personal ego to become roadblocks - they will always be present. Principle of Kalyug is to try to prevent Gurmat from spreading - being diligent, patient and true to Sikhi can overcome this.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Rode = pind (village).

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH "I wonder wat people gain by taking amrit " Yes, what indeed... ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ Ik Oankaar Sathigur Prasaadh || One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਮਨਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਰਾਧਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ॥ Man Raam Naam Aaraadhhiaa Gur Sabadh Guroo Gur Kae || My mind worships and adores the Lord's Name,through the Guru,and the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ਸਭਿ ਇਛਾ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਪੂਰੀਆ ਸਭੁ ਚੂਕਾ ਡਰੁ ਜਮ ਕੇ ॥੧॥ Sabh Eishhaa Man Than Pooreeaa Sabh Chookaa Ddar Jam Kae ||1|| All the desires of my mind and body have been fulfilled; all fear of death has been dispelled. ||1|| ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ॥ Maerae Man Gun Gaavahu Raam Naam Har Kae || O my mind, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord's Name. ਗੁਰਿ ਤੁਠੈ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਪੀਆ ਰਸੁ ਗਟਕੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Gur Thuthai Man Parabodhhiaa Har Peeaa Ras Gattakae ||1|| Rehaao || And when the Guru is pleased and satisfied, the mind is instructed; it then joyfully drinks in the subtle essence of the Lord. ||1||Pause|| ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਊਤਮ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੇਰੀ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ॥ Sathasangath Ootham Sathigur Kaeree Gun Gaavai Har Prabh Kae || The Sat Sangat, the True Congregation of the True Guru, is sublime and exalted. They sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord God. ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਮੇਲਹੁ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਮ ਧੋਵਹ ਪਗ ਜਨ ਕੇ ॥੨॥ Har Kirapaa Dhhaar Maelahu Sathasangath Ham Dhhoveh Pag Jan Kae ||2|| Bless me with Your Mercy, Lord, and unite me with the Sat Sangat; I wash the feet of Your humble servants. ||2|| ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਭੁ ਹੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਰਸੁ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਸੁ ਰਸਕੇ ॥ Raam Naam Sabh Hai Raam Naamaa Ras Guramath Ras Rasakae || The Lord's Name is all. The Lord's Name is the essence of the Guru's Teachings, the juice, the sweetness of it. ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਭ ਲਾਥੀ ਤਿਸ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ॥੩॥ Har Anmrith Har Jal Paaeiaa Sabh Laathhee This This Kae ||3|| I have found the Ambrosial Nectar, the Divine Water of the Lord's Name, and all my thirst for it is quenched. ||3|| ਹਮਰੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਪਾਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹਮ ਵੇਚਿਓ ਸਿਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ॥ Hamaree Jaath Paath Gur Sathigur Ham Vaechiou Sir Gur Kae || The Guru, the True Guru, is my social status and honor; I have sold my head to the Guru. ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਿਓ ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਲਾਜ ਜਨ ਕੇ ॥੪॥੧॥ Jan Naanak Naam Pariou Gur Chaelaa Gur Raakhahu Laaj Jan Kae ||4||1|| Servant Nanak is called the chaylaa, the disciple of the Guru; O Guru, save the honor of Your servant. ||4||1|| (731)

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH "but is their shabad that can bring happiness and remove boredem and dis-satisfaction out of my life very quickly whilst remaining detached?" Sehaj Paath of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which will encourage Naam Simran.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Not Gurbani as far as I can tell. Not encountered anywhere and no results when doing a Search of Gurbani - Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Vaaran'Kabit Bhai Gurdas Sahib, or Amrit Keertan.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ...???... That was confusing. I think "Teva" is implying a jantri - horoscope type book with your future predictions (could be completely wrong)??? Not sure if it is considered a religious book.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH No, asking for things during Ardaas is not using Ridhi Sidhi powers. Anyone in this world can do Ardaas - prayers recited by Christians, Muslims, etc. are all addressed to the one Almighty Father-Mother, who sustains all and provides for all. You are a child of God making a request. Ridhi-Sidhi would imply that you have been bestowed powers that you, out of your own ego, seek to use to create something to benefit yourself or even others. It is a projection of those powers in an egotistic fashion that is forbidden in Sikhi. Gursikhs are, per Gurbani, told to abide by the Hukam of the Almighty and whatever is needed should be sought by Ardaas to the Almighty.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH "and no there were greater gursikhs then bhair randhir singh ji, he himself told in his books ." Do you have their names and in what books their names are present? I will try to see if their life stories are available for a read - something to inspire and perhaps better the self. Thanks.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Not to be a downer, but this Panthic issue is not going to get resolved on Sikhsangat. Also, contrary to what many may assume, the Sikh Rehat Maryada is implemented and given out to the majority of Sikhs during the Amrit Sanchar, as that is the Maryada applied to Amrit Sanchars in most Gurudwaras. Whatever our world view may be of Sikhi, but the majority of Sikhs are not following Taksal/AKJ/Nanaksar Maryada - they are following the Sikh Rehat Maryada. The whole men vs. women issue - if there is a genuine need for any group, individual or institution to have women not do seva in the Punj Pyare, they would need to take this to the Akaal Takht Sahib to revise the Sikh Rehat Maryada (and applicable Hukamnama to the Panth) to get a unified application of standard. I do not see historical reference of any Mahapurakh from any institution flocking to the Akaal Takht Sahib to raise this issue, probably because the Panth has a LOT of other issues and a need for unity from then until now. There are many controversies that will not be solved until Khalsa Raj is established and a platform of power is available to the Sikhs to have these issues presented, resolved and come to one unified Maryada of the Panth. Otherwise, this is discussion that will not really lead anywhere. As for anyone who has issues with the Sikh Rehat Maryada, I would submit that if questioning and challenging that Maryada becomes commonplace, there will be more chaos in the Panth - Jathebandi vs. Jathebandi issues on what is the "real Maryada" and of course, each group will represent themselves as the real Maryada. It is a standard - a minimum that all Maryadas should be more or less in alignment with. All Jathebandis recognize that it exists, and though they may identify deficiencies in it, still respect those who follow it as fellow Gursikhs. Sant Jarnail Singh is often quoted as saying the statement about women and the Punj Pyare. Sant Ji also was very careful to not implement Taksal Maryada when he stayed in the Harmandir Sahib complex and maintain the sanctity of the Maryada in place there. He advocated for Taksal's Maryada, but also respected the Sikh Rehat Maryada and other Jathebandis who had their own Rehat Maryada without inviting (and actively condemning and physically punishing - slapping - those within Taksal) who would create controversy and disunity. We should take a lesson from this. Maryada is something you are given to follow, to apply a test of your own Sikhi and progress in Sikhi - it is not a weapon or gang manifesto that you debate over and war with your fellow Sikhs. Have some faith in Guru Sahib - The life stories of Mahapurakhs are full of examples where devoted Sikhs had questions or shortcomings in their Sikhi and Guru Sahib would guide that person towards Gurmat and true Maryada. Focus on yourself and self-progression. Have faith that Guru Sahib gave you the Maryada and Amrit Sanchar that you were destined for and that Guru Sahib will take to down the right path as long as you remain faithful and true to Sikhi.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Romance marriages, a funny concept... You date, you lie, you embellish, you sleep with people and decide to marry the perfect one, only to realize that a lot of lies were told and misrepresentations made and you roll the dice to a 50/50 divorce rate. :biggrin2:

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH 1:11:46 - ????????????????? So...any person who reads Dasam Patshah's Zafarnama would also be aware of the following lines (given that this group calls itself Shri Kalgidhar Satsang Mandal)? I am also the annihilator of the hill rajas, the idol worshippers. They are idol worshipers and I am engaged in defeating “ the very concept” of idol worship. Zafarnama - found at page 34 of http://www.zafarnama.com/Download/zafarnama.pdf . The Aarti by Bhagat Sri Sain is being quoted literally, where the most traditional of teekas of Sahib Guru Granth Sahib says: ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਘ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਜਿ ਆਰਤੀ ॥ Dhhoop Dheep Ghrith Saaj Aarathee || ਤੇਰਾ ਜਸ ਰੂਪੀ ਧੂਪ ਔ ਵਿਵੇਕ ਕਾ ਦੀਪਕ ਔਰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਰੂਪੀ ਘੀ ਇਸ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਕਰ ਆਰਤੀ ਕਾ ਸਾਜ ਕੀਆ ਹੈ॥ The lines are being quoted out of context and at literal face value, when this is not what any translator of this Bani said. I am purposely including the most traditional translation (Fareedkot teeka) as a translation here so as to dissuade any hint of any modernist-missionary translations. Guru Sahib will not contradict Gurbani with Gurbani - Aarti in the physical form is not advocated in Gurbani. Contemplation of the Divine and its creation are advocated. The deeper essence of Gurbani is blatantly being ignored to present a distorted presentation that Gurbani says to do a physical Aaarti, where the very Gurbani, in its proper context is saying otherwise. I did not see Mr. Mamtaani doing translations of the subsequent Gurbani lines after the ones he does "katha" of that give the deeper meaning of the Aarti contents and how they directly oppose his conclusions. One has only to look at the Aaarti composition sung in many Gurudwaras in the evening AS A WHOLE to realize that the physical Aaarti is NOT being advocated. http://www.adelaidesangat.com/index.php/downloads/func-startdown/117/ Most telling is Bhagat Ravidaas's line in that Aarti that says: ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਚਵਰ ਢੋਲਾਰੇ ॥੩॥ Thaero Keeaa Thujhehi Kiaa Arapo Naam Thaeraa Thuhee Chavar Dtolaarae ||3|| Why should I offer to You, that which You Yourself created? Your Name is the fan, which I wave over You. ||3|| ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਹੂਆ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੋ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਨ ਕਰੋਂ ਔਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਚੌਰ ਹੈ ਪੁਨਾ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਚਵਰ ਕੇ ਢੁਲਾਵਣੇਹਾਰਾ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਰ ਹੀ ਢੁਲਤਾ ਹੈ॥੩॥ 50:09 - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is the means of unifying Hindus and Sikhs - ...interesting...perhaps he should expand this - is he saying that it is the means by which Sikhs can be considered a sub-division of Hindus. Then he goes on to say that Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Raam and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib's Raam is the same (avoiding the deeper meaning of Raam, which is ramat - present and present everywhere). 1:08:25 - states that he will start his Keertan with Ustat of "Ma Bhagwati" and then starts Keertan of Sri Dasam Bani. Perhaps a learned individual could explain to me whether the Bani being referenced is indeed in praise of Bhagwati or Akaal Purakh? http://searchgurbani.com/dasam_granth/page/295/line/4 He also outlines that at 1:10:45 that Bhagwati and Akaal Purakh are two separate beings, so he is advocating that Sikhs do worship of Devi (and also the other Hindu avtars, by mentioning Chaubis Avtaar Bani). His pronounciation of Vaheguru is really poor (just saying...). Baba Prem Singh did not seem to speak in this video, so not sure how this can be titled that he did Katha. He seems rather out of place and uncomfortable throughout. Conclusion: This Madhavdas Mamtaani is suspicious.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH And then this happens... :omg: So a comment on this topic: This is a Sikh forum, so apologies in advance for any views that may hurt sentiments to the readers. Only read below this line if you can stomach a little harshness. Hath Jhor Benti. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Do you really want to be a Sikh? I mean really - sit down and do some inner contemplation. Read some history, read Gurbani and decide. Most of the time it's this: ...that leads to the "Sikh or no?" posts. In fact, this is the common problem that leads to this very thought process. There is a lot of depth in Sikhi. One aspect of Sikhi is a passionate and deep faith. A Sikh will leave it to the Guru to take care of his/her affairs. The Guru WILL arrange "Santa(n) Kae Kaaraj Aap Khaloia, Har Kam Karavan Aaya Raam" - it is not a coincidence that this was the FIRST EVER Hukamnama from Aadh Sri Granth Sahib Ji (written this way as the Gurgaddhi was not transferred to it until Dasam Patshah - and yet, the SHABAD GURU was always the Guru, it was merely changing of the bodies that was occuring). If Guru Sahib can turn (and as history tells literally) sparrows into hawk killers and have (again, literally, as was demonstrated in Chamkaur Sahib) have one Sikh fight a quarter of a million, SURELY HE CAN FIND YOU A SIKH HUSBAND OR WIFE???? Again, this applies to Gursikhs. Read Gurbani, read history, read the Rehat Maryada to define what a Sikh is. If you want the blessings of the Guru, that is the way to get them. Otherwise, all this stuff about cutting hair, short beards and the like - it is not Sikhi. All of us sell ourselves WAY too short in what we truly are, where we come from, what our forefathers were and what we should aspire to. Of course, you think it's over at marriage, but then your backstabbing kids do stuff like this: And even sadder is when you see this when others realize what Sikhi is: (Yes, the above is "fictional", but based in reality, as incidents like this happen). Sorry for the capital letters - they were added with the intent of emphasis (maybe I am too passionate or something). _________________________________________________________________________________________ Message to all Sikhs, take this film as a warning - applies to men and women: And dating? The whole bit about considering women as sisters, mothers and daughters and men as fathers, brothers and sons...must have missed that lesson. Sorry for the bitter tone of some words - truth is like that sometimes.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH For the Sangat - all of Gurbani that follows the Ik is devoted to Ik - to explain, to expand and to guide on the Ik. The entire of Gurbani rotates around Ik. To Balbir "Singh" - so, which are you? Radhasoami, Nirankari, RSS? How much do you get paid to post nonsense on forums to confuse Sikhs or are you truly mentally unstable? Don't worry, you won't blow your cover - any person who has been on this forum for any time knows that your sole purpose here is with anti-Sikh intentions.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH First find out WHY you are falling. Is it that you are doing Sangat for a week and then not and find yourself falling when not in Sangat? Are you getting bored in Sangat and find your mind wandering? Are you enjoying the Sangat but not engaging in Sangat (what do you mean you do Sangat? Hang out or do Simran/Paath/Seva/Keertan)? The mind and body need to be engaged in the activities directly of the Sangat and not just be witnesses to it and get a good feeling by proxy. Sangat is a boosting effect and there are only two choices - either you have to find a way to be in Sangat continuously OR take what you learn from the Sangat and apply to your personal jeevan when you are not in Sangat. Personal Kamai is very important. Sangat teaches, inspires, uplifts and guides, but you must self-improve and move yourself forward through your own efforts. Otherwise, you really must immerse yourself in a situation where you are in Sangat almost every minute of the day. Gurbani tells each devotee to search the inner self, to do introspection and come to the true realization of who you truly are and abandon the duality veil of the ego. This is the objective. Nobody said it would be easy - Khaneo Tikhi, Valeo Nikki implies exactly that. Sikhi is simpler than other faiths, but that does not imply a walk in the park. Gursikhs beg and plead Guru Sahib every single day for Amritvela/Simran/Gurbani/Seva - and I mean plead (some with shaky voices and tears in their eyes). The Almighty made you and knows you better than you know yourself. Your job as a Sikh is to do Ardaas and give 110% every day - the Almighty's mauj is to bless you with Gurprasad when it is deemed appropriate. Why the game? You and I don't get to ask that question - it IS the game and it exists, you have to play it - Hukam Na Kehiya Jai. This is not a one shot deal - as you said, individuals come into this world with the good and bad karams and kamai of many lifetimes with them. There are obstacles and/or advantages built into every individual based on this past. Some excel and leave others wondering why - they come with kamai and blessings from previous births. Others struggle throughout their life to make small strides. Again, the Almighty knows all - like a parent, the Almighty sees the efforts, the commitment, the intent - those things count as well. Undeserving of the Almighty's love? That is not your choice. In fact, you have very little choice BUT to continue your Sikhi. You are Amritdhari - a Sant Siphai is your destination. You have sold YOUR HEAD to the Guru and you are NOT ENTITLED to choice. Feel whatever you want, but the Rehat given to you by the Punj Pyare is law and you will comply or face the consequences. Feel whatever you want and have that conversation with the Almighty - that is what Ardaas is for. It doesn't have to be a formal Ardaas, sit inside and talk to the Almighty - tell the Almighty what you feel, that you are trying and what you want. Everything you are going through, every hardship, every roadblock, is shaping you as an individual for the coming time. There are reasons for these adversities and roadblocks that will be of use to you in the future. Accepting this is VERY difficult and those who accept the Hukam of the Almighty with unconditional resolve are at a very high spiritual level. So yes, many Sikhs on the path are of similar feeling - they get down, they get frustrated. But you get up every single day and fight. Kaam Krodh Nagar Meh Sabla, NIT UTH UTH JOOJH KARIJAI. It is the job of every Sikh to get up and fight the Punj Vikaars every day. War is not 100% victory - it is battle after battle after battle until the enemy is crushed or surrenders. There will be losses in battle, but keep the war victory as your objective. Do a benti to the Gursikhs to do Ardaas for you and advise you. Do Ardaas for yourself every day. Do as much Sangat as possible. Gurbani is your guide, Simran is your duty and Seva can keep the body busy and tired enough that you don't have time to do anything else.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Your mind (mun) may feel threatened and doing this nonsense thought production (furnae). Keep reading Gurbani and remain firm in your resolve. The mind is a monkey that must be tamed and it will not be controlled without a fight.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Shiv Sena, meet Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda, meet Shiv Sena. Now you two go and play nice.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Informational video on these bandars: Full version of earlier posted clips.