BhForce

I have no idea what this video is even supposed to be about. That a few Pakistanis look better than some Indians? Funny enough, one of the examples they give is actor Shah Rukh Khan for Indian. (He's a light-skinned Muslim.)

Do know that everything that Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha writes should not be taken as the absolute truth. Even more so in translation. Then you have no idea what is even being referenced.

Wow, Mahankosh is available in English now? That's great, thanks a lot for the links. Two niggles: 1) the scan by Sikh Book Club is very low resolution. If they were going to scan it, why not just scan at higher resolution? The problem is when you have to increase the zoom to read some words, you can't make out some of the vowel markings. The higher resolution, the easier it is to read letters (whether on the screen or on paper). 2) for some reason the typesetting at Punjabi University wasn't proofread so where they give quotations from Gurbani, in some places they are not Gurbani, but rather the English letters that would correspond to the font.

No, I think it can and should always be under scrutiny. In fact whitewashing your name by donating to religion is a time-honored way for people with ill-gotten gains to absolve themselves of their sins. (Not saying he has ill-gotten gains.) Of course that's a good thing. Yet we all know that there are bad people with beards, too. (Badal & company, for example.)

Sucks. Horrible. In fact, I think it would be better to do something for our brothers and sisters in Pakistan than to destroy the Gurdwaras and rebuild them with marble.

Yeah, if someone wants to spend their own money, whatever. But don't ask the Sangat to marble the floors of the Gurdwaras in Pakistan. I actually rather like the charm of the old-style construction.

They'll probably raise it by guilt trips on Sikhs who don't regularly go to Gurdwara.

So I would like the SGPC to produce those manuscripts. Where are they? Did they sell them off surreptitiously?

Exactly. Destroy the centuries old buildings that sangat has been having darshan of. Spend money and funnel $$$ to Pakistani stone dealers and contractors. In the end for it to be taken over by the Muslim neighbors of the Gurdwara. Brilliant how apne think.

So sad. Sikhs were not forcing our religion on the Muslims. What's their problem with us?

Right. And also, thinking that some writing will upset the applecart may be a problem if we uncritically accept documents. Just because someone (whether a Moghul or Sikh) wrote something does not make it true, certainly not the level of Gurbani. Humans always write with their own flaws, limitations, and also agendas. This is true whether we're talking about Sikh history or Japanese, Chinese, Russian, or whatever history.

Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to know for sure exactly what every single Sikh thought. But it's hard for me to believe that the sudden and forceful change that was brought about in the Sikh panth by Guru Hargobind ji could be ascribed to a mere personal dispute. If the sangat truly thought that Guru ji's shaheedi was merely due to a personal grudge, it's hard to see the sangat supporting Guru ji's military direction. It would have been seen as a wild overreaction. I think that elders (remember, Guru ji was very young at that time) would have counseled caution, just as some people tried to during the first Khanda-Amrit ceremony. In reality, objections, if any, did not stop militarization because people realized that the Mughals were out to get us. Granted, we didn't have excerpts from Jahangir's memoirs to pass around on social media, but somehow or another, word got around. You don't think that no news ever got passed around then, do you? On the other hand, I do see it as plausible that the Chandu story might have been played up by misinformed preachers after Guru Gobind Singh ji. Just as a whole bunch of other problems and wrong thought cropped up during the Sikh Raj, British Raj, and post-1947 India.

This entire debate is pointless, regarding which places are clean and which aren't. Originally, Anand Karaj's were held by doing parikarma around Guru Sahib themselves. Guru Sahib did not go to people; people came to Guru Sahib. Later, at some point, people started bringing Guru Granth Sahib to their homes to perform weddings. Recently, people starting taking Guru Granth Sahib to hotels and such, which was considered a step too far. So it was collectively decided that if you want to be married, you have to Guru Sahib, not make Guru Sahib come to you. It simply does not matter what the parts per million pollution is in the air where you want to have your "destination wedding." If you want to have a "destination wedding," have the wedding in a Gurdwara, then have the reception at the beach. Problem solved.

Agreed. The problem in the West is that they have started to worship the Artist. Art was meant to uplift people's thoughts and hearts. Now, it's entirely meaningless and pointless.

What do you define as a "religion"?

It's telling you to go where you can receive the Name, i.e., Satguru. Guru is Panj Piyare in tabia of Guru Granth Sahib ji. That's who you receive naam from. The Satguru is Guru Nanak Dev ji: ਸਭੇ ਕਾਜ ਸੁਹੇਲੜੇ ਥੀਏ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ॥੧॥ All my tasks have become easy when Guru Nanak, the Satguru, became happy with me. p322. There are other tuks that show Gurbani says Guru Nanak ji is Satguru and also is God. The current form of Guru Nanak ji is the Panj Piyare in tabia of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Panj Piyare do whatever Guru Nanak ji did: Give the Name. Right, you can't recite the Name without Satguru. So go meet Satguru at the next Amrit Sanchar. He is telling you to find the Satguru. I don't know if you consider the Panj Piyare dead. Anyways, the power of the Panji Piyare is not that they are human beings. The power is that they channel the power of Guru Nanak Dev ji. It's no use being a "living guru" if you have no spiritual power.

Got it. Generally, I have seen the weddings of non-religious or "moderate" Sikhs are short in India. Religious Sikhs have longer Anand Karaj's where they have a longer kirtan and dhadis/speakers/etc. Before sunrise? Generally I have seen a desire to do lavan before 12 noon in both India and the West. But not before sunrise. Before sunrise would be for really hardcore Sikhs (non-religious Sikhs don't get up early anyways).

I appreciate that you state that it's just your observations, similarly these are just mine: OK, I think what you must be saying is "kirtan" referring to other shabads being sung beyond the lavan. But the 4 lavan themselves are supposed to be sung. From the Sikh Rehit Maryada: "After the conclusion of the recitation of each of the stanzas, the boy, followed by the girl holding the end of the sash, should go round the Guru Granth Sahib while the ragis or the congregation sing out the recited stanza." So, the ragis do indeed have to do kirtan of the lavan themselves. Singing a whole bunch of additional shabads is optional.

No ragis? Who does the kirtan of the lavan, then?

Seriously, bro? If that's the answer, we might as well just shut this forum down.

Do you have a reference for this?

What I want to know is how the Abrahamics got to Sri Lanka. Was proselytization quite active during the British rule of Sri Lanka?

Well, if you're in India, you can (usually) go by the "green dot" on packaged food. If you're "bahar" (outside India), you might be able to find stuff in your local Indian grocery. Otherwise, the general packaged food cannot be trusted to be vegetarian or even non-halal even if it's not marked specially. Also, if you really want to be sure, you simply make your food at home.

Very important to keep in mind when one traverses the debates where on the one hand the Singh-Sabha influenced Sikhs warn about "the Hindus" and on the other the saffron brigade claims Sikhs are Hindus. Because even Guru Nanak Dev ji says that the "Hindus are mistaken from the start" and Bhagat Namdev ji says "Hindus are blind". So context is necessary. And words can have different meanings in different contexts.

Truer words were never spoken. You have captured the essence of the "moderate Muslim": He who is too cowardly to himself blow people up, but is happy that some of his "brothers" aren't.