proactive

As the family have been using every media to discredit the Singhs who went to stop the beadbi of the Guru, people can see a pic of the girl who thinks she is entitled to an Anand Karaj even if it runs counter to the Akal Takht hukumnama. Just google her name, Susan Momi and there is a pic in a newletter of a hospital trust.

Hsisingh Rather than bring out technicalies just accept that you know zilch about the rehat maryada on a Sikh marriage otherwise you wouldn't have made the idiotic statement that you did, that if one of the couple is a Sikh then they can marry in a Gurdwara. Those Gianis and Pardhans who have allowed the marriage to go ahead probably share the same idiotic beliefs as you.

Top 5 Gangster movies 1. Carlito's way 2. Donnie Brasco 3. The Godfather 1 and 2 4. The Untouchables 5. Casino

Excellent this is just want I was hopomg would happen. Even if the criminal didn't turn up at least all the time and effort of organisating and publicity does not go to waste.

Fightingsingh you are not a cowardlala in disguise are you? Seems like you are posting jagbani links as some lala used to!

I admire the work of Sewa84 but I think where we Sikhs fail in is the follow up as well as the ground roots. This is a victory but what is to stop Vaz inviting Bachchan again? Sewa84 or some other organisation needs to take follow up action to ensure that Vaz is made aware of why the Sikhs were going to protest as well get an undertaking from him not to invite Bachchan again. This might sound draconian but unless we undertake the follow up or grass roots work then all we will have is protests whenever he or any other of the accomplices of the genocide comes to the UK and then these will be cancelled and claimed as a victory. The true victory would be when we cause a sea change in the way bachchan is viewed in the UK. A few months ago Bachchan was on the BBC TV show, The One Show. Sewa84 or orther organisations need to contact the BBC and present their case and ask that he should not be invited especially since hundreds of thousands of Sikhs are licence fee payers.

Just goes to show how superficial your knowledge is, perhaps you need to broaden the range of books you read. That Andrea Grace Diem seems to be a writer with an agenda than a serious author or scholar. Read this-; Instead of siding with their Indian brothers most Sikhs during this time supported the British and many even served in the British army. That's something a hardened Indian propagandist would write. That author obviously has no idea that the same Indian brothers were the ones who only a decade before had been part of the British invasion oif the Punjab that then ended the Sikh rule. .In fact, the British insisted that Sikh soldiers wear the five ks and swear an oath of loyalty to the Guru Granth Sahib. The British vested interest was obvious: by supporting Sikhism they felt they were insuring excellent soldiery. Thus, the British helped crystallize Sikh identity as they promoted Khalsa standards in the military and the use of the title Singh. The advantage of being a Sikh helped keep Sikhs from lapsing into Hinduism and Khalsa Sikhism grew as a result. But then on the other side they also engaged in the subversion of the Khalsa by outlawing the Kirpan for non-military Singhs. As the Sikhs in the British army during the Singh Sabha movement were at most 10,000 then how is allowing 10,000 men the right to take Amrit and keep the 5 K's in the army yet denying over 1.8 million Sikh men and women the right to wear a Kirpan, helping to crystallise Sikh identity? By 1899 there were over 120 Singh Sabha organizations operative. The need to have a central organization to allow communication between educated Sikhs and to coordinate activities between the Singh Sabhas was apparent. In 1902 the Chief Khalsa Diwan was established to serve this role. The same thing was happening with the Hindu and Muslim communities. The Sikh and Muslim communities succeeded in reforming their religions whilst the Hindus did not. The Sikhs and Muslims had the support of their religious texts as well as history whilst the Hinduism by it's very nature cannot be reformed. many were nervous about the influence of Christian missionaries and schools on Sikhs, especially since four students at Amritsar converted to Christianity at this time. They actually expressed a desire to convert and were persuaded not to by the Sikh leaders. @JSinghnz. The Namdharis, Satnami, Udasis were always perceived to be pro-hindu and thus British sought to isolate that strain of thought in their interest. Don't judge the Namdhari movement from the muppets that claimed to be Satgurus in the last few decades. The Namdharis were actually against the popular religion of the Punjab population which involved such things as visits to Sufi shrines, memorials to ancestors etc. Many Sikhs and Hindus actually used to complain to the British authorities that whenever someone from their villages came under Namdhari influence they would then proceed to preach against the popular religion of that time as well as sometimes violently destory the local shrines to the ancestors. Satnamis? No such thing as Satnamis in Sikhs religion, they were a movement in Haryana in the 1660s and later in Madhya Pradesh in the 19th century.

Could it be that the Singh is trying to change the organisation from the inside? Do you not think that as he is so concerned about having the right to keep his kara that he will also be working at changing the mindset of his fellow non-Sikh colleagues and treating Sikh travellers with more sympathy than a normal TSA gorilla?

I think there is a prophecy in an ancient secret text that a kaarkhana da karigaar bulberhumpton ton anvaiga tey shastar vidya nuun murh surjeet kareiga atey goray ohnu akheerla Sikh Yodha pehchaanangey.

I would have thought the bigger news story was that a bunch of inbred parasites who are still in possession of stolen goods from various countries (ie koh-i-noor) are able to get the country to spend millions of pounds in celebrating the fact that the chief handler of stolen goods has been living off the state for the last 60 years! This at a time when the counrtry is in recession and people are struggling to make ends meet.

You are quick to blame the Badals and hence the victim mentality but the fact is that the MSP (minimum support price) is set by the Central govt! That's why around April-May there is great deal of newspaper reports of Badal or his son demanding an increase in the MSP. The Punjabi farmer cannot sell his foodstuffs to anyone but the central govt agencies through the artiyas.

West London Singh, I couldn't have put it better myself. Unfortunately people whose only claim to having any connection to rural Punjab is that they watched Putt Jattan De seem to think they know more than those who actually have family there and visit every year. I was watching NDTV this afternoon and they had a discussion about government subsidies. One Indian nonce had the nerve to say that free power shouldn't be provided to the rich Punjabi farmer! That numbnut thought that all Punjabi farmers are rich. DalSingh would add his own nugget to that fact by claiming that apart from being all rich the Punjabi farmers are also treating the lower castes like the Southern good ole boys used to treat the negros! Anyway that facts as you state are quite correct. The GOI treats the Punjab as a colony just as the British treated India as a colony which would provide the raw materials and then be a market for it's value added goods. GOI needs Punjab to remain an agricultural state which provide cheap foodstuffs to the rest of the country and which is then a market for goods which are produced outside of Punjab. Having looked at for example biscuits in the shops of even a small town, more than 60% are produced outside Punjab in states such as Gujarat and even Maharashtra. Why is in that the state that produces the raw materials yet value added products are produced outside? You make a valid point about Amritsar Airport. Why is it that there is now no direct flights to Amritsar. Even the Indian carrier Jet Airways stopped their direct flight and if you want to fly to Amritsar then you have to do so via Delhi Airport. This also entails a 10 hour wait for the connection from Delhi to Amritsar! If that's not discrimination against Punjab then I don't know what is.

Just watched the report on the BBC about the issue. They said that there is a meeting of Sikh and Muslim 'community leaders' in the Gurdwara aiming to diffuse 'tensions'. I hope the Sikhs don't get taken in by the doublespeak of the Pakis.

Let me put forward a counterpoint. Even if the girl is of dubious character and that is by no means proven then a Sikh community uniting and forcing the police to take action sends a very strong message to the Pakis who do these kinds of things as well as the PC khusra police force. I understand what the bro who said that he has seen Sikh guys being imprisoned and being abandoned by the community after doing getting girls back off Pakis. Look at it from another angle, the gora community couldn't care less if their women go around with pakis and that is why pakis take advantage. If the pakis knew that even if a Sikh girl is their willing girlfriend they will still get their legs broken then the paki will think twice. Having a strong and united community which is willing to fight even for the hopeless cases. Even if the girl is willing the paki will make sure that he goes around with the girl in places where the Sikh community will see them. If he knew that the first time he goes into a Sikh area with the girl he will be put in hospital then he will think twice about it. The easiest way to browbeat and make a community become despondent is to take their honour and show them how you are able to spoil that honour. Whether us Sikhs like it or not and we can try the to get around it like some try and do and say that the girls are Punjabi and not Sikh but will that make you feel better and less despondent. Being the same age as our friend Dal Singh but having lived in a Sikh area and not a Paki area but we still had our rucks with with the Pakis. Upto the late 90s the Pakis knew that they could never mess with a Sikh. If anything positive comes out the protest and this issue, it will be that the Pakis and the wider community will know that Sikhs are still willing to stand up even for our wayward girls. On another note I agree with Dal Singh about not associating with the EDL but not for the reasons that he has given. In my view if Sikhs side with the EDL they will not make themselves look like fascists to the wider community, the only people who will consider us as fascists will be the left wing UAF idiots and their useful <banned word filter activated> followers the co-called Turban Campaign! We already have no sympathy from the left wing idiots, they are fully paid up enablers of the Muslims. The reason not to associate with the EDL is that we don't need a few goray to empower us. We have so many youth in this country and if we could unite the vast majority of them no paki will mess with us. The thing I disagree with Dal Singh is in his analysis that Sikhs have become weakened since we lost our Empire. I still view the Sikhs as being strong even after the loss. Not only did the Sikhs take revenge against the Purabiyas in 1857 but even when the Muslims who considered us as having lost our strength in 1947 and targetted Sikhs, we proved that we were strong enough to clear the entire East Punjab of Muslims. The Pakistan govt even went to the United Nations in 1947 to blame the Sikhs for the beating their people were getting in East Punjab. What was it that I wrote about the attack first and cry about the results mentality of the Pakis? The reason that the Sikhs of old even up to the 90s were not beaten by the Pakis is because each generation taught the next that they should never trust a Paki and should always be wary of them. This wasn't something that the Sikhs of old made up but was based on experience of Pakis as well as an understanding of what Islam teaches. If you went up to a Sikh a hundred years ago and start to talk bukwas about how Islam is great because Bhai Mardana was a Muslim and the Gurus had Muslim friends, the likelihood is you would have got a danda across your face. People like GoKesh simply didnt exist among Sikhs prior to the 90s. Unfortunately we are now teaching the exact opposite and is it any wonder that foolish Sikh girls are becoming victims when pajamas here and in real life don't stop talking bukwas about how Islam is just like any other religion.

Stop posting Muslim propaganda to try and prove your point that Muslims are also suffering. If you watch the video at 1.20 you see it's the Muslay with the hat who uses his placard to attack a Gora. The Muslay then gets a punch in the face for his trouble from a gora who wades into the baying crowd to get at him. This shows what the Musla mentality is, they attack first and when they get a beating they complain about being a victim!

The worst was that <banned word filter activated> Christian priest who claimed that he worked in the area where the grooming took place and said that it was nothing to do with race! The Peter Oborne from the Daily Telegraph was another muppet who claimed the Quran and teachings of Mohammed were 'extremely moral'!! You could see the Pakistanis in the audience were thinking what stupid idiots these white kuffar are.

Normally people can't be named for legal reasons because they are facing further charges and/or a case is ongoing. This doesn't mean that that the guy cannot be a labour councillor and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if he was. What would surprise me is if he is a councillor and they discover that he wasn't also claiming benefits!

The BBC is notorious for it's left wing bias. I remember reading a post by someone on another forum many years ago who said that the many of the producers are left wing white men and women many from the north who assume that all Asians are Pakistanis! About a year ago when these cases first started to come to public notice, the BBC prime time soap opera Eastenders had a storyline of a white guy who was grooming a white girl and abusing her and getting her abused by his other white friends! The BBC has a definite bias towards Pakistanis.

Of course I'm not an Indian. I am a Sikh, a Punjabi and a Human being. Indian does come into it.

Can the moderators look at banning this Vijayender member, he seems to have a connection with the anti-Sikh Punjab Kesari publishing group and only puts up news from that Hindu propaganda group. Also having a picture of that arch Sikh baiter Jagat Narayan does sit well with a Sikh site.

The thing is that as with anything you can only change it for the better by engaging with it and changing it from within. The problem is that these Amritdhari Singhs might be managing million pound projects but they are not taking any interest in taking part in the management of the Gurdwara. If the did like the Singh in Canada did a few years ago then they could defeat the old management committee and as long as they have a certain percentage of the members with them they could change the constitution of the Gurdwara so that only five nominated Gursikhs can run the Gurdwara. On a side note they easiest way to rid the Gurdwara of the self serving chaudhrys is to make a provision in the constitution that anyone standing for election in the Gurdwara would need to present their tax records and then pay daswand (10%) towards the Gurdwara.

Because of the missile launch your family's security has got a lot more insecure. The Chinese have thousands of these missiles and the stupid Indians just because they managed to get ONE missile in the air think they've created a deterrence against the Chinese threat!

Am currently in Punjab at the moment. Support has been huge for Bhai Sahib and gives a lie to the claims that Sikhs have forgotten the struggle. In Jagraon there was also peaceful protests when it looked like whole villages had turned out to show their support. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera with me otherwise I would have taken some snaps to post here. Some Hindu shops here and there chose to open yesterday and on the whole the protestors did not seek to close them. The a great buzz in Punjab that the protests have forced the government to place a stay of execution. One battle won on the road to Khalistan!

How can someone who claimed to a Sikh leader have the same view in 1985 that he had in 1982? It as if 1984 had never happened. I was reading a book by Surjit Singh Barnala in which wrote about his captivity after Bluestar and how he heard about the elimination of Indira Gandhi. He makes the statement that how could tow Sikhs who had sworn to defend a 'frail' women commit such an act! You see that Akalis whether it was Longowal, Barnala or Badal find operation Bluestar an inconvenience. They wish the Sikhs would forget it and let them get on with the business of ruling Punjab.

West London Singh Rather than patronise people why not come up with the facts and figures. Amritsar city was never majority Muslim. Muslims were 47.8% in 1941 at a time when the census was heavily skewed against the Sikhs as the Sikhs and Hindus were in the throes of the non-cooperation movement and the Muslims having a Unionist government in charge were able to massage the census figures. There is no doubt that Sikhs committed many atrocities in East Punjab just after the partition line was drawn. Maybe sitting in sofa pontificating about how Sikhs murdered Muslims gives you some kind of buzz but what is important is to consider why the atrocities happened. Half the Sikh population had just been ethnically cleansed from West Punjab. A great many historic shrines were now left in Pakistan, millions of acres of ther best land in Asia was in one stroke taken from the owners and passed to the tenants. There was no reason for Muslims to leave East Punjab. The Nehru and Gandhi fools would have wanted the East Punjab to remain 30% Muslim and the Sikhs and HIndus from West Punjab either sent back as refugees to Pakistan or resettled outside of Punjab. The Jathas that went to work on the Muslims did so after the realisation came to Sikh leaders that the Pakistani would force all the non-Muslims out but still want to retain a fifth column of Muslims in East Punjab. If the Muslims had stayed then after 1947 the Sikhs would still have been a minority in places like Amritsar, Jalandhar and Ludhiana. Massacres were committed on both sides. The clearing of Amritsar after 1947 was a direct result of the violence committed by Muslims against the non-Muslims in March 1947. The reason that Muslims MIGHT have had more dead than Sikhs who because apart from the Sikhs in Rawalpindi area who were subject to a general massacre, the Sikhs from Lyallpur and Montgomery were all former soldiers and their families who were allotted land in these districts after WW1. When they left the district it was organised into Jathas with jatha leaders, lookouts and scouts. The Muslims who left East Punjab did so in a general panic and their caravans were not wel organised. The Sikhs of Lahore, Gujranwala, Sialkot and Sheikhupura owned a majority of the land, hence they also had the wherewithal to organise their caravans well. The facts of the massacre were that Pakistan was sold to the Muslim masses of West Punjab as a way in which they would be able to appropriate the land of the Sikhs and the factories of the Hindus. If the Sikhs and Hindus stayed in West Punjab then what was the reason to have a Pakistan when the Muslims would still be tenants of the Sikh landlords and still have to repay the money that they had borrowed off the Hindu moneylenders. The reason for the massacre of Muslims inm East Punjab was -; 1. To create space for the Sikhs and Hindus who were being forced out of West Punjab. 2. Revenge for the killings of Sikhs and Hindus in March 1947 and after. 3. As with no.1 to create an area where the Sikhs would be a majority and not face the same situation again As for Malerkotla, I'll go out on a limb here. It was wasn't to do with the story of the Sahibzadas, it was two things. One the Jathas did not feel the need to attack the Muslims in the state as the Muslims of Malerkotla had not attacked Sikhs there. Muslims in other East Punjab areas had attacked Sikhs. A case in point was the 'Bet' area which was the lowlying land both sides of the Satluj river which had Muslim villages. Muslims in the bet area of Ludhiana had attacked Sikhs who were passing through the area. The other reason for not attacking Malerkotla was that the belief was that as nearly all the non-Muslims had left West Punjab then the Muslims of Malerkotla too would be evacuated by the military. This is an interesting discussion but marred by people how think they know more but cannot back their statements with facts.