Evolution

[Pheena]

you know we try to find the answer in exact words expressed to us in black and white. The world is not that Simple of a mystery to be solved and im glad the answer is not simply written in black and white in Gurbani.

What we are, where we are going and how we got here as the ever evolving human mind/body is a question best left unanswered. Altho curiousity gets the best of us and there is nothing wrong with that. One thing to understand is that Evolution happens accordingly to the changes in our environment. Any Species will adapt to their environment to propogate its survival. What knowledge we undestand today can only be understood by the mind of this era. Quantum physics, Physics, the Atom could not have been understood by the mind of someone 1000 years ago. As our Technology progresses so does our knowledge of the world around us...that initself is Evolution. Our Mind has Evolved from creating Fire to making a Society to Farming to Creating a Civilization to Computers. If the Mind can evolve to adapt as such then can not our bodies evolve just as easily. From the physically strong cave man to the hard-working Farmer to the Geeky Computer Programmer.

we are evolving daily physically and mentally.

[00gurpreet_singh00]

how si that shaheed

?

bhai gurdas je talks about satjug, dating back millions of years, and jugs which have been here for way before the cave times

and bhai sahib we built great monuments int hesr times

look at how old some mandirs in india are

nasa has discovered the pathway raam built to sri lanka from india out of rock now sunk in water

which was mad long before, how did he do that?

scicn changes allt he time

its mostly all guesses

like the atomic theory

how many times has that theory changed??

no one even knows how old the hindu dharm really is, cause as we know it comes from all the way to satjug, although the dharm has changed and even though raam was hankaari sometimes, vaheguru sent him in the ages of satjug, well, that was bal raja

no it dont agree , i dont think, from wat ive read it wudnt be possible

kaljug isnt 200 years olf like people think, it last around 4 million, i have the dates somewhere, forgot them

also the age of man has been DECREASING

we used to live as long as we want, then 100 000, then slowly downt o 100,

scicne says that man has been able to live longer as time goes by

tha might be cause science is looking at maybe last 100 years, or at most maybe 1000 years

they cant factor in satjug, etc.

scicne is changing constantly

look at all of its theory

always changing as they learn more

dont belive everything u learn at skool

bhula chuka maf

91968[/snapback]

im not sure about this but doesnt abni say that when one jug changes to another there are huge natural/environmental changes as well, atleast this is what i've heard. In that case mabye all records of previous jugs were wiped in an an iceageor comet or something and all that modern science is looking at with evolution is just kaljug. And also since no one knows when satyug really was how do we really know that these mandirs are really from satyug?

EIther way tho, i htink this discussion is useless, doesnt bani say that countless people waste their times trying to discover how god does stuff, and how the world came about and stuff like that, but no one can ever come close to realising any of these things?

My advice would be stop worrying abou t useless things which doesnt affect us at all, and spend your time on more useful things

[Gupt daasan daas]

one thing i completly agree on is this is not an easy thing to understand

to really find out we shud reach the level of brahm gian

thas the sure way

other wise we can ask sants or something

cause its really hard

and theres no point in knowing wa happened int he past

we spend our whole lives in either the past or future, concentrate ont he present, wher eu are now

that is wat matters, live int he moment, concentrate on vaheguru je

guru nanak dev je came at the beggning of kaljug when the world became so corrupt it started crying out for a saviour, jagath jalanda rakh lai apnee kirpa dhaar

mother earth cried to god for a saviour, and then vaheguru je came himself as guru nanak dev je

pRQmYN sws n mws sn AMD DuMd kC Kbr n pweI]

prathhamai(n) saas n maas san a(n)dhh dhhu(n)dh kashh khabar n paaee||

First of all, when no breath and body was there nothing was visible in the pitch darkness.

rkq ibMd kI dyh rc pWc qq kI jVq jVweI]

rakath bi(n)dh kee dhaeh rach paa(n)ch thath kee jarrath jarraaee||

The body was created through the blood(of mother) and semen (of father) and the five elements were joined judiciously.

paux pwxI bYsMqro cOQI DrqI sMg imlweI]

poun paanee baisa(n)tharo chaathhee dhharathee sa(n)g milaaee||

Air, water, fire and earth was put together.

pMc ivc Awkws kr krqw Ctm AidS smweI]

pa(n)ch vich aakaas kar karathaa shhattam adhish samaaee||

The fifth element sky (void) was kept in between and creator God, the sixth one, invisibly permeated among all.

pMc q`q pcIs gux SqR imqR iml dyh bxweI]

pa(n)ch thaath pachees gun shathr mithr mil dhaeh banaaee||

To create the human body, five elements and twenty five qualities opposite to each other were joined and mixed.

KwxI bwxI cilq kr Awvwgaux cirq idKweI]

khaanee baanee chalith kar aavaagoun charith dhikhaaee||

Four life originating mines (egg foetus sweatborn , vegetation) and four speeches(para, pasyanti, madhyama, vaikhari) were assimiliated into each other andthe drama of transmigration was enacted.

cOrwsIh l`K jon aupweI ]ò]

chaaraaseeh laakh jon oupaaee ||a||

Thus eighty four lacs of species were created.

this is the vaar that deals with creation

im telling u, this stuff is so confusing it is mind boggling

it wud compolelty confuse a person

u wud have to spend a lifetime to learn it all, if ure lucky it takes one

cwr jug kr Qwpxw siqjug qRyqw duAwpur swjy]

chaar jug kar thhaapanaa sathijug thraethaa dhuaapur saajae||

The four Ages (yugs) were established and the first three were given names Satyug, Treta, Dvapar. Fourth one was Kaliyug.

cOQw kljug QwipAw cwr vrn cwroN ky rwjy]

chaathhaa kalajug thhaapiaa chaar varan chaaro(n) kae raajae||

And four castes came to be known as the kings of four ages. Brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya and sudhra became predominate in each age.

bhmx CqRI vYS sUdR jug jug eyko vrn ibrwjy]

behaman shhathree vaish soodhr jug jug eaeko varan biraajae||

In Satiyug, Vishnu is said to have come to earth as Hansavaar and explained the problems pertaining to

siqjug hMs Aauqwr Dr sohMbRhm n dUjw pwjy]

sathijug ha(n)s aouthaar dhhar soha(n)breham n dhoojaa paajae||

metaphysics (The story is there in the eleventh canto of the Bhagvat Purana), and nothing but one soham-Brahm was discussed and pondered upon.

eyko bRhm vKwxIAY moh mwieAw qy bymuhqwjy]

eaeko breham vakhaaneeai moh maaeiaa thae baemuhathaajae||

Getting indifferent to maya, people would praise one Lord.

krn qp`sXw bn ivKy vKq gujwrn ipMnI swgy]

karan thapaasayaa ban vikhae vakhath gujaaran pi(n)nee saagae||

They would go to forests and pull on life by eating natural vegetations.

lK virHAW dI Awrjw koTy kot n mMdr swjy]

lakh varihaaaa(n) dhee aarajaa kot(h)ae kott n ma(n)dhar saajae||

Though they lived for lacs of years but they would construct the palaces, forts and grand mansions.

iek ibnsy iek AsiQr gwjy ]õ]

eik binasae eik asathhir gaajae ||a||

On the one hand the world was passing away and on the other the life current would go stably.

this is about satjug

if u read hindu texts u will se amazing things int hier such things sceince has discovered just now, vishnu je had said long ago, vedas also said the guru of the trintity will come as guru nanak dev je, meaning vaheguru je will come as baba nanak

the vedas and puranaas have lots of knoweledge in them, and really help u to understand was guru je talkin bout sometimes, its amazing, the gian is very hard to grasp

qRyqy C`qRI rUp Dr sUrj bMsI bf Avqwrw]

thraethae shhaathree roop dhhar sooraj ba(n)see badd avathaaraa||

In Treta in the Sun-dynasty descended in the form of the kshatriya(Ram) a great incarnation.

nauN ihsy geI Awrjw mwXw moh AhMkwr pswrw]

nou(n) hisae gee aarajaa maayaa moh aha(n)kaar pasaaraa||

Now the nine portions of age lessened and illusion,attachment and ego inflated.

duAwpur jwdv vys kr jug jug AauD GtY Awcwrw]

dhuaapur jaadhav vaes kar jug jug aoudhh ghattai aachaaraa||

In Dvapar, Yadav-dynasty came to the forefront i.e. the incarnation of Krsna became known to the people; but because of the lack of good conduct, Age by Age, the life span(of man) went on decreasing.

irgbyd mihM bRhmikRq pUrb muK SuB krm ibcwrw]

rigabaedh mehi(n) brehamakrith poorab mukh shubh karam bichaaraa||

In the Rgveda the conduct of the brahmin and the ideas about the actions done facing the East were discussed.

KqRI Qwpy jujr vyd dKx muK bhu dwn dwqwrw]

khathree thhaapae jujar vaedh dhakhan mukh bahu dhaan dhaathaaraa||

Kshatriyas became related to the Yajurveda and started pouring charities while facing the South.

vYsoN QwipAw isAwm vyd pCm muK kr sIs invwrw]

vaiso(n) thhaapiaa siaam vaedh pashham mukh kar sees nivaaraa||

The vaishyas embraced the Samaveda and bowed to the West.

irg nIlµbr jujr pIq svyyqMbr kr isAwm suDwrw]

rig neela(n)bar jujar peeth savaeaetha(n)bar kar siaam sudhhaaraa||

Blue dress for Rgveda, yellow for Yajurveda and for singing of the hymns of Samaveda wearing of the white dress became a tradition.

iqRhu jugIN qRY Drm aucwrw ]ö]

thrihu jugee(n) thrai dhharam ouchaaraa ||a||

Thus three duties of the three Ages were enunciated.

about tretha jug and dwapur

kiljug cOQw QwipAw sUdR ibrq jg mih vrqweI]

kalijug chaathhaa thhaapiaa soodhr birath jag mehi varathaaee||

Kalijug became prevalent as the fourth age in which the low instincts gripped the whole world.

krm su irg jujr isAwmdy kry jgq ird bhu sukcweI]

karam s rig jujar siaamadhae karae jagath ridh bahu sukachaaee||

People became resultant in performing of the duties enjoined in the Rig, Yajur and Samaveda.

mwXw mohI mydnI kil kl vwlI sB BrmweI]

maayaa mohee maedhanee kal kal vaalee sabh bharamaaee||

The entire earth got enticed by mammon and the antics of the Kalijug put everyone into delusion.

auTI glwn jgq ivc haumY AMdr jly lukweI]

out(h)ee galaan jagath vich houmai a(n)dhar jalae lukaaee||

Hatred and degeneracy engrossed the people and ego burnt oneand all.

koeI n iksy pUjdw aUc nIc sB giq ibsrweI]

koee n kisae poojadhaa ooch neech sabh gath bisaraaee||

Nobody now worships anyone and the sense of respect for the younger and elder has vanished into thin air.

Bey ibAdlI pwqSwh kilkwqI aumrwv ksweI]

bheae biadhalee paathashaah kalikaathee oumaraav kasaaee||

In this cutter age the emporers are tyrants and their satraps butchers.

rihAw qpwvs iqRhu jugI cOQy jug jo dyie su pweI]

rehiaa thapaavas thrihu jugee chaathhae jug jo dhaee s paaee||

The justice of three ageshas become extinct and now whosoever gives something (as bribe) gets (justice?).

krm BRSt sB BeI lukweI ]÷]

karam bhrashatt sabh bhee lukaaee ||a||

The mankind has become wanting in dexterity of action.

this about the current jug, kaljug

suxI pukwr dwqwr pRB gur nwnk jg mwihM pTwXw]

sunee pukaar dhaathaar prabh gur naanak jag maahi(n) pat(h)aayaa||

The benefactor Lord listened to the cries (of humanity) and sent Guru Nanak to this world.

crn Doie rihrws kr crnwimRq is`KW pIlwXw]

charan dhhoe rehiraas kar charanaamrith skhiaa(n) peelaayaa||

He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.

pwrbRhm pUrn bRhm kiljug AMdr iek idKwXw]

paarabreham pooran breham kalijug a(n)dhar eik dhikhaayaa||

He preached in this darkage (kaliyug) that, saragun (Brahm) and nirgun (Parbrahm) are the same and identical.

cwrY pYr DrMm dy cwr vrn iek vrn krwXw]

chaarai pair dhhara(n)m dhae chaar varan eik varan karaayaa||

Dharma was now established on its four feet and all the four castes (through fraternal feeling) were converted into one caste (of humanity).

rwxw rMk brwbrI pYrIN pvxw jg vrqwXw]

raanaa ra(n)k baraabaree pairee(n) pavanaa jag varathaayaa||

Equating the poor with the prince, he spread the etiquette of humbly touching the feet.

aultw Kyl iprMm dw pYrW aupr sIs invwXw]

oulattaa khael pira(n)m dhaa pairaa(n) oupar sees nivaayaa||

Inverse is the game of the beloved; he got the egotist high heads bowed to feet.

kiljug bwby qwirAw s`qnwm pVH mMqR suxwXw]

kalijug baabae thaariaa saathanaam parrh ma(n)thr sunaayaa||

Baba Nanak rescued this dark age (kaliyug) and recited ‘satinam’ mantr for one and all.

kil qwrx gur nwnk AwXw ]òó]

kal thaaran gur naanak aayaa ||aa||

Guru Nanak came to redeem the kaliyug.

this shows guru je came in this jug and came to redeem it and to save it

there is much more in gurbani but i do not know it, and this is wat guru je gave me from bhai gurdas je de vaara

its really intresting

to give ut he best adivse, i think its best if concentrate more on the rpesent as sant baba ishar singh je rara sahib said too

the past will not take us

btw, my earlier posts i said something bout devthai and demons and sun and moon, then saddhooos, then at last guru je, etc. thas from bachitter natak

bhula chuka maf

[skepticSikh]

it says that humans evolved from stones........and guess whatt....scientist are just discovering now that this what happened

omg...OMG! stones? STONES? am i like going crazy? STONE ARE THE MISSING LINK?

I'd suggest you actually read some books on evolution. Or maybe even a college bio book (find it at the library). Because I'm pretty darn sure we didn't evolve from stones.

There is a consensus on the fact that there were bacteria 3.8 billion years ago on an earth that had NO oxygen but did have water. One theory (with growing support) is that meteorites provided the amino acids and some other organic "building blocks" (they're rich in them). Amino acids are the basic units that can be manipulated by cells to make proteins (and protein is what we're mostly made of).

So the stuff was there, a bacteria (or many) start assembling itself and split quadrillions of times over, and because it can't copy exactly every time, it had erros. Those errors were mutations, which caused new species to emerge. btw, this has been proven; bacteria in labs splits into new species routinely; this is also why pesticides grow ineffective cuz the pests evolve and become resistant to the pesticide. SO, that bacteria then evolved into multicellular life, then into marine life/ marine plants, then spawned land life (in general), and so on after that.

The process of evolution is not so easy to understand. But from what I've understood, the basic concept is that because there are SO many DNA mutations, when the population is threatened by say a pesticide, some mutations survive and manage to be able to produce offspring. The offspring of the mutations survive, and the others that did not have the mutation die off. SO, the species with the mutation survive because they had an evolutionary advantage. This is why we say "survival of the fittest".

A few more notes: a large population doesn't evolve. So all x-men fans, don't count on natural evolution, because humanity is pretty much a stable population (tht could change). A small population is where mutations affect the population the most. Also, as per our evolution, in the next few centuries, we're pretty much looking at controlling parts of our evolution ourselves. Just a thought...

So we DIDN't evolve from STONES, but we DO have the minerals in us. But we didn't evolve from them. Even amino acids by themselves can't assemble. However, if ur talking about the primordial soup, i'd agree.....but we didn't evolve from stones. Have i said that enough??

And i don't see space on the periodic table. Nor do i see fire. Its not an element; hate to burst your bubble.

what i said above could be slightly off, but then you can disprove it by citing scientific studies or authoritative texts/articles/books. Go ahead and attack my logic, i want you to...

And there is no scientific basis for a soul or God himself. You cannot prove God's existence through science. It is matter of faith, so treat it so...leave science alone to desribe the physical reality...

[skepticSikh]

nasa has discovered the pathway raam built to sri lanka from india out of rock now sunk in water

tht was hindu propaganda or something......it was misinformation. NASA refused it ever photographed that. Look it up...

look at how old some mandirs in india are

Look at the carbon dating of those specific temples. Nothing in india is older than 5-6000 years ago. Again, look it up. I can't believe such misinformation can breed so easily....

like the atomic theory

how many times has that theory changed??

A perfect example of the logical fallacy of non-sequitur. It does not follow that all of science is wrong just because the atomic model was expanded from atoms to subatomic particles. The only thing that changed was our ability to detect more acutely and accurately.

no one even knows how old the hindu dharm really is, cause as we know it comes from all the way to satjug, although the dharm has changed and even though raam was hankaari sometimes, vaheguru sent him in the ages of satjug, well, that was bal raja

no one knows? I know. How about 5000 years ago with the Aryan invasion of the native tribes of India?

look it up...

kaljug isnt 200 years olf like people think, it last around 4 million, i have the dates somewhere, forgot them

also the age of man has been DECREASING

we used to live as long as we want, then 100 000, then slowly downt o 100,

scicne says that man has been able to live longer as time goes by

tha might be cause science is looking at maybe last 100 years, or at most maybe 1000 years

they cant factor in satjug, etc.

the average lifespan of stone age humans was at most 35. There was no satjug. Man cannot biologically live past 200. Not even 150. There is no question of opinion here. We have used objective science to reach this conclusion, and if u have the time to read a line or two, spend that time understanding 8th grade bio. You don't increase the love of God by being ignorant in science. You increase that by solidifying your faith. Don't meddle with what you obviously don't understand.

And lastly, science is a bunch of theories. That's what its supposed to be. It CAN change. In fact, if it didn't, we'd still believe that the earth is flat. Science is not a religion, it is a tool, it is inquiry of the physical world. I never encroached on sikhism in post, because what i spoke about was physical, scientific REALITY. HELLO PEOPLE, this is real. Science is real. And so is the Gurbani. But Gurbani is spiritual, while science is physical. I think that's easy enough to understand.

[skepticSikh]

i'm sorry i sound negative, but i was extremely angry for the past two posts. I stand by what I stay, and if i caused even a shadow of doubt about these blatant lies (hidden behind the guise of Gurbani), i would be impressed.

[Khalsa4ever]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

Wow.. you dug up this old post from way back in 2005!! lol. But your points are absolutely correct. Science and religion are complimentary aspects trying to describe the same reality. The difference is, science describes based on our current state of knowledge: so of course it does change. But just because relativity is found, doesn't make the theory of gravity wrong. Science is about constant revision while remaining like justice: blind to outside influence.

A lot of the "stuff" that was posted before about bridges between earth and raam and stuff... none of that is derived from SGGS jee, so I don't even know why its brought up here. It's just a sign of ignorance believing random pieces of gibberish without taking a deeper look into what's being said and by whom. Like honestly, thing NASA is finding remenants of bridges on earth? They're a SPACE organization hahahaha.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[skepticSikh]

wow...didn't even realize it was that old. I'm glad you agree with those points...and yeah, most of this bridge stuff and some of the stuff about satjug (like humans living millions of years), i dont that is in the SGGS. Even if it is, saying it like that misses the point....one of the points throughout SGGS is our personal journey to God. I don't see why we'd have to abandon science to do that...its a matter of personal faith...